rikkus67
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D'long And The Dornier 728

Tue Mar 01, 2005 6:50 pm

With the sale of the two prototypes in the last week, what has happened to the 728? Is it still in existance in China, or has it officially now disappeared?


**I am thinking Bombardier made a bit of a mistake re: the 528/728/928 program...**
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Flying-Tiger
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RE: D'long And The Dornier 728

Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:08 pm

None of the prototypes ever left Germany - both have remained in Oberpfaffenhofen. One has been sold to the DLR and will be moved to Göttingen or Braunschweig für Cabin Noise Research, the other one has been sold to private interestes.

FD simply ran out of money. There were several interested parties out there, but all of them had own interests:

- Boeing: had still its 717 running, today they will probably bite themselves not to have taken the opportunity two years ago - no chance to tell their work force why they cancel the 717 and take the 728 instead

- EADS/Alenia: EADS France heavily opposed EADS taking the 728/928 project. It would have meant that Germany would have grown stronger within EADS - no, the French want to keep EADS as french as possible.

- Bombardier: copied every available document, took every technology they could get - and after that decided to let it go. They had everything they wanted. Just take a look on the similarities of the "C-Class" and the 728/928... guess they should have purchased the program when they had the chance, would have saved quite a bit of money.

The 728 had quite a few customers: Lufthansa (60+60), GECAS (50+100), CSA (4+4, leased from GECAS), Bavaria Leasing (4 728, 2 928, 4 options), Flight Options (25 Envoy 7), Unknown (3 Envoy 7), SolAir (2). Rumours were floating that KLM had signed a MoU for 30 728 days before FD went into administration.

In addition politics played quite a role: FD had the problem that they went into recievership when we had the federal elections looming. The SPD-chancellor wasn´t interested in backing a project in the state where his competitor was the head of state - would have probably been bad for his PR. So many factors why they weren´t able to continue. Not to say that our government isn´t exactly clever when it comes down to the economy.
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northwest 777
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RE: D'long And The Dornier 728

Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:12 pm

I'm not familiar too well with this plane. What were the specs going to be for the line? Any pics or drawing of what it was to become?
 
rikkus67
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RE: D'long And The Dornier 728

Wed Mar 02, 2005 12:30 pm

Flying Tiger,

Thankyou for the update, but I am still curious as to what exactly happened to D'longs interest in the 728-928 program. There seems to be no additional information after about mid-2004. I am sure that the aviation community would have had more information as to what happened to the program after D'long supposedly bought it. I know they were having some difficulty with getting engines, but apparently they never did get the completed prototype into their hands.

As far as Bombardier, the Challenger/CRJ program was originally a LEAR JET! This was the last all-Lear design, that was modified by Bombardier after they purchased the design from Lear. It had been Lears intention all along that the plane would eventually be stretched, when the market conditions were right.

I am a big fan of Dornier since the 328 program. I am glad that Avcraft in the USA is still marketing that aircraft. I had hoped that Bombardier would have taken a much more agressive interest in the 728 program! It is extreemly disheartening to see this beautiful aircraft go the wayside!
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DfwRevolution
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RE: D'long And The Dornier 728

Wed Mar 02, 2005 12:54 pm

Quoting Northwest 777 (reply 2):
Any pics or drawing of what it was to become?


One prototype made it-


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Peter Unmuth - VAP
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Peter Unmuth - VAP



Beautiful plane that went no where  Sad
 
rikkus67
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RE: D'long And The Dornier 728

Wed Mar 02, 2005 12:59 pm


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Philipp Boeck




View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Andreas Zeitler - Flying-Wings



reminds me of the Canadair Jetliner from the 1950's...
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ODwyerPW
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RE: D'long And The Dornier 728

Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:20 pm

It had 5 abreast seating as standard. 6 if you wanted to use very small seats and a small isle. Don't think anyone planned on the 6 abreast seating.

Sized between EMB175 and a B717.
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Boeing7E7
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RE: D'long And The Dornier 728

Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:33 pm

Quoting Rikkus67 (reply 0):
With the sale of the two prototypes in the last week, what has happened to the 728? Is it still in existance in China, or has it officially now disappeared?



It's still at the factory. Just saw it on Friday. No pics though. AvCraft doesn't allow cameras. 328Jet production is ramped up. They were working on a couple of them. There was also a US airline there, but I can't disclose who.
 
Flying-Tiger
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RE: D'long And The Dornier 728

Wed Mar 02, 2005 6:51 pm

Bit strange with US airline, ACA/flyI/DL Connection has their 30 frames more or less up for sale. AvCraft isn't telling too much, I know. Do you have any update on their orderbook?
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aeroweanie
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RE: D'long And The Dornier 728

Wed Mar 02, 2005 7:00 pm

Rikkus67:

> As far as Bombardier, the Challenger/CRJ program was originally a LEAR JET!

Be careful - Bill Lear did create the concept that led to the Challenger, but by then he had sold Learjet. If I remember right, it was originally called the Lear Star and Canadair renamed it. His concept was a business jet with a stand up cabin and a supercritical wing. After he sold the concept to Canadair, he started up the Lear Fan program.
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: D'long And The Dornier 728

Wed Mar 02, 2005 7:32 pm

Quoting Flying-Tiger (reply 8):
Do you have any update on their orderbook?



Nothing. AvCraft is really tight lipped. I had to sign a non-disclosure to get the tour which was arranged from the US office before we left. The only thing openly talked about is what they report (that production has started) and that they are in business. Kind of a wierd environment. You'd think they'd want to be open about things.
 
DAYflyer
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RE: D'long And The Dornier 728

Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:16 pm

Quoting Boeing7E7 (reply 7):
It's still at the factory. Just saw it on Friday. No pics though. AvCraft doesn't allow cameras. 328Jet production is ramped up. They were working on a couple of them. There was also a US airline there, but I can't disclose who.


Does this mean that they may produce the 728 after all? It had really nice specs as I remember.

Nice to hear of potential 328 orders as well. I flew on a 328 out of CVG to DAY once; nice little airplane, far better than the CRJ I think.
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backfire
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RE: D'long And The Dornier 728

Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:24 pm

Does this mean that they may produce the 728 after all?


No, no and no.

D'Long acquired the 728 programme but the new manufacturer, renamed Fairchild Dornier AeroIndustries, also declared bankruptcy.

There was an auction earlier this month which resulted in all the tooling and manufacturing equipment being sold off. So there's nothing to build the jet with.

As mentioned above, the 728 prototype is going to the DLR aerospace research centre. It ain't gonna fly.