NYC777
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Boeing To Overhaul 737 Aircraft Family

Wed Mar 02, 2005 12:36 am

Looks like Boeing is going to "787" the 737 line. I think they need to do a clean sheet design that incorporates the technologies of the 787.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor.../franceustransportair_050301150910

[Edited 2005-03-01 16:37:52]
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Falcon84
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RE: Boeing To Overhaul 737 Aircraft Family

Wed Mar 02, 2005 12:40 am

So, within the next decade, we'll see the ending of probably the most successful commercial aircraft design of all time. Remarkable.
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mlsrar
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RE: Boeing To Overhaul 737 Aircraft Family

Wed Mar 02, 2005 12:40 am

The article quotes:

"I suspect that what it will be is not a continuation of the 737 family,"

I have a feeling it will be a clean-sheet design, but may retain the designation.
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DIA
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RE: Boeing To Overhaul 737 Aircraft Family

Wed Mar 02, 2005 12:44 am

Looks like we have a 797 in the works, folks.
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Falcon84
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RE: Boeing To Overhaul 737 Aircraft Family

Wed Mar 02, 2005 12:45 am

DIA, I have a feeling that a new narrobody might start in the 800 series, with maybe a 777 replacement being the 797. Not that it's important, but I just have a hunch.  Smile
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DeltaWings
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RE: Boeing To Overhaul 737 Aircraft Family

Wed Mar 02, 2005 12:51 am

Quoting Falcon84 (reply 4):
DIA, I have a feeling that a new narrobody might start in the 800 series, with maybe a 777 replacement being the 797. Not that it's important, but I just have a hunch.


Why should Boeing skip the 797? They didn't start a new line (808) for the Dreamliner. Or do you mean Widebodies will have a differen line as narrobodies?


~DeltaWings
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DIA
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RE: Boeing To Overhaul 737 Aircraft Family

Wed Mar 02, 2005 12:51 am

Quoting Falcon84 (reply 4):
DIA, I have a feeling that a new narrobody might start in the 800 series, with maybe a 777 replacement being the 797. Not that it's important, but I just have a hunch.


Hey, I'm with you. But, then again, a lot of us thought the 787 was going to start the "800" series designation. . .

So for this one, I'll be conservative, like Boeing usually is, and go with the 797. I'll look for a new jumbo jet to start the "800" series. . .maybe the 747 replacement.
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NYC777
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RE: Boeing To Overhaul 737 Aircraft Family

Wed Mar 02, 2005 12:55 am

I can see Southwest all over this one!!! I bet they it'll be less than ten years if WN says they'll put in a huge order to replace all the 737s...that'll get the 737 replacement program going full steam.
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MD80Nut
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RE: Boeing To Overhaul 737 Aircraft Family

Wed Mar 02, 2005 12:57 am

Quoting NYC777 (reply 0):
I think they need to do a clean sheet design that incorporates the technologies of the 787.


I agree. I think it's an opportunity to come up with a new narrowbody family with the technology and materials of the 787. Also offer some commonality with the 787 and a wider fuselage like the A320 to counter one of that family's stronger selling points.

The 737 has been great and I'd be sorry to see it end, but I think a new family and design would be more attractive to airlines in the long run.

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ERJ170
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RE: Boeing To Overhaul 737 Aircraft Family

Wed Mar 02, 2005 12:59 am

I could see it as the 838 series.. to show a bump to a new level but with the same force that was the 737.. but that is just a marketing tool I would use.. and it would make the Asian airlines happy.. with 2 8's!!!
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keesje
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RE: Boeing To Overhaul 737 Aircraft Family

Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:01 am

Boeing estimates it will sell 14,715 units of the 737 aircraft in the next 20 years

I doubt Boeing will sell 14,715 units of the 737 aircraft in the next 20 years.
Sorry if anyone feels I'm bashing Boeing.
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scbriml
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RE: Boeing To Overhaul 737 Aircraft Family

Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:03 am

Boeing estimates it will sell 14,715 units of the 737 aircraft in the next 20 years.

735 planes per year over 20 years? Assuming it's not a misquote, that seems a massively optimistic number.

Quoting Mlsrar (reply 2):
I have a feeling it will be a clean-sheet design, but may retain the designation.


Why on Earth would they retain the 737 designation?
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Ready4Pushback
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RE: Boeing To Overhaul 737 Aircraft Family

Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:06 am

Quoting Falcon84 (reply 1):
So, within the next decade, we'll see the ending of probably the most successful commercial aircraft design of all time. Remarkable.

But really good to see Boeing keeping up. Just because something was successful, and continues to be so, doesn't mean that it can't plan and design for the future. When/if Airbus ever announce they are updating their A320 family, Boeing can already claim that they have already begun this process. They are proving they are not being complacent.

This is excellent news.
 
Spike
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RE: Boeing To Overhaul 737 Aircraft Family

Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:11 am

I'm surprised its not 737 planes over 20 years or 14,740 in total. Bit close of a coincidence dont you think? The 797 will just be a new narrow bodied 777 or (737) but called a 797. The nose will still be 40 years old+
 
DIA
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RE: Boeing To Overhaul 737 Aircraft Family

Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:12 am

Quoting Falcon84 (reply 1):
So, within the next decade, we'll see the ending of probably the most successful commercial aircraft design of all time.



All good things. . .

Hey, Volkswagon ended their Beetle line, the best-selling automobile of all time and revamped it with a completely newer model that incorporated modern technology. . .looks like Boeing will do the same.
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mauriceb
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RE: Boeing To Overhaul 737 Aircraft Family

Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:15 am

it will be a new design for sure, but think the 737 still has a bright future, they clearly said ''somewhere in the next decade'' so we will still se lots of 737 orders...
 
keesje
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RE: Boeing To Overhaul 737 Aircraft Family

Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:15 am

& expect some more "good" 737NG deals in the near future to fill up the lines until this aircraft comes along...

Boeing indicates it depends on "when will Airbus do something", rread : if Airbus launches a 320NG series. This depends IMO mainly on availability of new technology engines in the narrowbody weight class.
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mauriceb
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RE: Boeing To Overhaul 737 Aircraft Family

Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:18 am

Guy's i somehow have the feeling that the 737-900X will be the very last 737 design....
 
NYC777
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RE: Boeing To Overhaul 737 Aircraft Family

Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:31 am

I can see WN totally driving the development of the plane with a very large initial order but also a lot of legacy 737 carriers. If Boeing plays it right this program can be even more successful than the 787 currently is.
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PM
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RE: Boeing To Overhaul 737 Aircraft Family

Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:32 am

Sounds like it's replacing the 737, not overhauling it.

Each version of the 737 has only been available with one engine type. That's made life much simpler for Boeing and has been a cash cow first for PW and latterly (and much more so) for CFM. What are the chances that Boeing will choose just a single type for the 737 replacement? Would there be any marketing advantages in offering two engine types? We can be sure that both CFM and IAE (or individual IAE members??) will pursue this business like never before. Might the engine manufacturer invest in the whole programme like GE did on the 773ER/772LR?
 
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scbriml
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RE: Boeing To Overhaul 737 Aircraft Family

Wed Mar 02, 2005 2:18 am

Quoting NYC777 (reply 18):
I can see WN totally driving the development of the plane


Neither Airbus nor Boeing would be foolhardy enough to let a single customer completely dictate the specs of a new plane. Not even their biggest customer.
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PHXinterrupted
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RE: Boeing To Overhaul 737 Aircraft Family

Wed Mar 02, 2005 2:41 am

"I doubt Boeing will sell 14,715 units of the 737 aircraft in the next 20 years.
Sorry if anyone feels I'm bashing Boeing."

Keesje-

Have you ever said anything positive about Boeing? Man, you are a piece of work!
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MidnightMike
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RE: Boeing To Overhaul 737 Aircraft Family

Wed Mar 02, 2005 2:45 am

Next decade, potentially that is a lot of aircraft that will need to be replaced. In the next decade 757's, 737NG's, MD80/MD90's, and the A318/A319/A320/A321 will be getting up there in age... Hmmmm? Do I see Southwest as the launch customer for this new type of 737?
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FoxBravo
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RE: Boeing To Overhaul 737 Aircraft Family

Wed Mar 02, 2005 2:48 am

Who says the 737 replacement will be a narrowbody? Don't forget that funny fat little fuselage for small widebodies that Boeing patented recently!

Odd looks aside, that would be a fantastic layout from passengers' perspective, and could really give Boeing a competitive advantage. Just imagine the marketing campaigns. No more bickering over inches...how about a whole other aisle! How do you like THEM apples?  Big grin
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airbazar
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RE: Boeing To Overhaul 737 Aircraft Family

Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:08 am

Quoting Scbriml (reply 20):
Quoting NYC777 (reply 18):
I can see WN totally driving the development of the plane


Neither Airbus nor Boeing would be foolhardy enough to let a single customer completely dictate the specs of a new plane. Not even their biggest customer.


Also, as a whole new aircraft with nothing in common with the existing 737 in their fleet, that would certainly open the door to Airbus. Ok, maybe just a sliver of a crack but more than today nonetheless  Smile
 
gigneil
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RE: Boeing To Overhaul 737 Aircraft Family

Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:25 am

There is a zero percent chance of selling 700 frames of the 737 every year for the next 20. Its a misquote.

N
 
Blackbird1331
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RE: Boeing To Overhaul 737 Aircraft Family

Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:30 am

It would be foolish for Boeing to sink so much money in R&D on the 787 and then not incorporate it into newer planes in the future. Even Boeing planes must evolve into something better.
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Okie
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RE: Boeing To Overhaul 737 Aircraft Family

Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:40 am

I am going for the nomenclature of "837"
Eight=for new generation, 8 a lucky number in some parts of the world.
Three= Thirty indicating similar applications of the 37, also 3 a lucky number in some parts of the world.
Seven= familiar nomenclature with Boeing, 7 a lucky number in some parts of the world.
or how about the "ETS" during the design phase

Okie
 
ltbewr
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RE: Boeing To Overhaul 737 Aircraft Family

Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:43 am

Despite the supreme success and production numbers of the 737 series, it is getting close to the time when it will have to be eventually replaced with a newer design for future needs and due to competition. As noted above, the Airbus narrowbodies are a little bit wider around than the 737, giving about 1 inch more width in each seat, something needed due to the larger size of the average human in the world over the last 40 years. There is a need to make a clean sheet replacement of this critical market range of aircraft more fuel efficient by being ligher with the use of well proven composites, hold more baggage, updated electrical and electronic systems, up to date interiors with better, more confortable seats and larger overheads and more flight range. Perhaps a new version could be contemplated to replace the now out of production 757-200ER, so could have (for example) a 150-160 pax ETOPS trans-atlantic service 2 engine a/c to serve smaller cities in the USA and smaller cities in Europe, as well as within Asia too.
 
columba
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RE: Boeing To Overhaul 737 Aircraft Family

Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:45 am

Quoting Okie (reply 27):
I am going for the nomenclature of "837"
Eight=for new generation, 8 a lucky number in some parts of the world.
Three= Thirty indicating similar applications of the 37, also 3 a lucky number in some parts of the world.
Seven= familiar nomenclature with Boeing, 7 a lucky number in some parts of the world.
or how about the "ETS" during the design phase

Okie


No that doesn´t sound like Boeing. I think it will be the 797 or 808. But since the 787 didn´t become the 808 as a new model it will be the 797. I bet a Samuel Adams on that !!
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
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ERJ170
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RE: Boeing To Overhaul 737 Aircraft Family

Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:47 am

Perhaps all future Boeing 737 replacements (I still say 838) will come standard with seat-back monitors and Boeing Connexion..
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United4everDEN
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RE: Boeing To Overhaul 737 Aircraft Family

Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:51 am

Quoting ERJ170 (reply 30):
Boeing 737 replacements (I still say 838) will come standard with seat-back monitors


Not a chance, that is something that always remain an option to the airline. Boeing is not going to do something like that for free, and some airlines such as Southwest and maybe some other foreign airlines would rather put that money towards something other than IFE.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: Boeing To Overhaul 737 Aircraft Family

Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:55 am

I'm just thinking ahead.. never know what the future holds.. but you are probably right.. but they are going to do something shocking.. perhaps..
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blackknight
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RE: Boeing To Overhaul 737 Aircraft Family

Wed Mar 02, 2005 4:12 am

Quoting Scbriml (reply 20):
Neither Airbus nor Boeing would be foolhardy enough to let a single customer completely dictate the specs of a new plane. Not even their biggest customer.


Lets not think inside the box. 2 facts:

1- WN has a system (for 737 sized planes) most envy and will soon try and duplicate. Which gives WN a robust style.

2- If Boeing does not create a 737 replacement which is flexible, not only in the cockpit but plane wide. They will fail. The next generation 737 (replacement) must cover 100 seats to 200 seats and do so in such a fashion that Airbus must work over time to catch up. They must forge ahead or play catch up.

Also is Boeing adding this as a carrot for current sales? Allowing orders to be converted in the future?
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DAYflyer
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RE: Boeing To Overhaul 737 Aircraft Family

Wed Mar 02, 2005 4:15 am

Quoting NYC777 (reply 7):
can see Southwest all over this one!!! I bet they it'll be less than ten years if WN says they'll put in a huge order to replace all the 737s...that'll get the 737 replacement program going full steam.


Without a doubt every available hand would be working on it the same day. Can you immagine replacing 400+ aircraft? WOW!
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DAYflyer
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RE: Boeing To Overhaul 737 Aircraft Family

Wed Mar 02, 2005 4:21 am

Quoting PM (reply 19):
What are the chances that Boeing will choose just a single type for the 737 replacement? Would there be any marketing advantages in offering two engine types? We can be sure that both CFM and IAE (or individual IAE members??) will pursue this business like never before.


I seriously doubt they will offer only one engine type, given that they can do bleedless, interchangable engines now (787).
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co7772wuh
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RE: Boeing To Overhaul 737 Aircraft Family

Wed Mar 02, 2005 4:21 am

Quoting Ready4Pushback (reply 12):
But really good to see Boeing keeping up. Just because something was successful, and continues to be so, doesn't mean that it can't plan and design for the future. When/if Airbus ever announce they are updating their A320 family, Boeing can already claim that they have already begun this process. They are proving they are not being complacent.

This is excellent news.


I agree !

Just curious if Boeing will go all composite ?

If Boeing were to develope an all Composite Super Jumbo within the next 10 to 15 years . Could that really hurt A380 sales , since the A380 would still be a relatively new a/c ?
 
DAYflyer
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RE: Boeing To Overhaul 737 Aircraft Family

Wed Mar 02, 2005 4:26 am

Quoting Co7772wuh (reply 36):
Just curious if Boeing will go all composite ?


If the 787 is a big hit and a proven money maker for Boeing and the customers, I bet they would. No way to tell until the 787 takes to the skies.
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codeshare
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RE: Boeing To Overhaul 737 Aircraft Family

Wed Mar 02, 2005 4:49 am

Now why do I have the feeling we might see 737 NG part 2 ?
They should get over the sixties design and construct a completely new airframe, which should use even better technologies than 787.
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NYC777
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RE: Boeing To Overhaul 737 Aircraft Family

Wed Mar 02, 2005 4:53 am

Quoting Codeshare (reply 38):
Now why do I have the feeling we might see 737 NG part 2 ?
They should get over the sixties design and construct a completely new airframe, which should use even better technologies than 787.

Well from the articel, it sounds like that is what Boeing is going to do. A clean sheet design based on the 787 technologies.
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mham001
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RE: Boeing To Overhaul 737 Aircraft Family

Wed Mar 02, 2005 4:57 am

Keesje wrote:
& expect some more "good" 737NG deals in the near future to fill up the lines until this aircraft comes along...


Exactly what I said when Ryanair supposedly got half off last week. They will be recieving soon-to-be obsolete aircraft simply so Boeing could fill up slots until....

Keep in mind Boeing is working very hard on cutting down the concept-flying time . They hope for a 3 year development period and in the best scenerio, even 18 months. I believe by the time they have the 787 flying and all the kinks worked out, they will have their systems in place and be able to incorporate the new technology far quicker and cheaper. The 737 as we know it will not be produced for long.

I think there is little doubt that they are in the midst of an aerospace revolution. Airbus has got to be scrambling as their recent success is about to be squashed.
 
DIA
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RE: Boeing To Overhaul 737 Aircraft Family

Wed Mar 02, 2005 4:57 am

Quoting Spike (reply 13):
The 797 will just be a new narrow bodied 777 or (737) but called a 797. The nose will still be 40 years old+


Somehow, I don't think the classic Boeing narrowbody nose (exluding the 757) will be retained on this newer design 737 replacement a/c. I think, it'll be along the lines of the 787 and nothing before, not even the 777.
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FriendlySkies
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RE: Boeing To Overhaul 737 Aircraft Family

Wed Mar 02, 2005 4:58 am

Quoting Spike (reply 13):
The nose will still be 40 years old+


First off, that it is next to impossible that this will occur.

Second, who the hell cares!
 
jonty
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RE: Boeing To Overhaul 737 Aircraft Family

Wed Mar 02, 2005 5:02 am

Quoting Keesje
(reply 10):"I doubt Boeing will sell 14,715 units of the 737 aircraft in the next 20 years.
Sorry if anyone feels I'm bashing Boeing."



Does it not just mean that their overall sales will reach 14,715 units in the next 20 years and its just been typed wrong or misquoted?

[Edited 2005-03-01 21:05:51]
 
zvezda
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RE: Boeing To Overhaul 737 Aircraft Family

Wed Mar 02, 2005 5:46 am

There was nothing in this article that we didn't already know. Boeing has just confirmed the obvious.
 
LMP737
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RE: Boeing To Overhaul 737 Aircraft Family

Wed Mar 02, 2005 6:53 am

Keesje:


I doubt Boeing will sell 14,715 units of the 737 aircraft in the next 20 years.
Sorry if anyone feels I'm bashing Boeing.


You might want to consider that who ever wrote this article might have very little knowledge of the aviation industry and therefore made an error.
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Boeing7E7
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RE: Boeing To Overhaul 737 Aircraft Family

Wed Mar 02, 2005 7:00 am

Quoting DIA (reply 3):
Looks like we have a 797 in the works, folks.



It'll be a 787-XXX from my understanding. As will all the next gen composite birds.
 
DIA
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RE: Boeing To Overhaul 737 Aircraft Family

Wed Mar 02, 2005 7:06 am

Quoting Boeing7E7 (reply 46):
It'll be a 787-XXX from my understanding. As will all the next gen composite birds.



Interesting. Somebody else above mentioned Boeing's patented "short-widebodied" design. What other info can you share with us, Boeing7E7? (By the way, your signature has already got me laughing with just the thought of it. . . Big grin)
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mountain
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RE: Boeing To Overhaul 737 Aircraft Family

Wed Mar 02, 2005 7:08 am

So...can Airbus afford to develop an airplane to compete with the new 737, while finishing the expensive A380 project and also developing the A350?
 
redflyer
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RE: Boeing To Overhaul 737 Aircraft Family

Wed Mar 02, 2005 7:10 am

I'm surprised I haven't seen anyone look at the financial aspect of this regarding how it will play out for Airbus.

As of right now, while R&D costs have dropped dramatically for Airbus since the A380 is coming on line, they must be carrying a lot of debt on their books (Let's not talk about how subsidies impact this). They are in no position to launch a new aircraft, hence their NG play on the 330 in order to keep up with the 787. Now Boeing announces that they are going to come out with a game-changer for the 100-200 seat market. It will have the same impact on the A320 as the 787 did on the A330 in that it will eat into Airbus' sales. Anything Airbus does to counter this new "737" will only cannibalize their A320 sales, much as their A330NG is already cannibalizing A330 sales. At least Boeing can let their existing 737 orders or new orders be sold with conversion clauses. In short, Airbus is bogged down with the A380 and will be playing a very hard game of catch-up for at least the next decade.

Personally, I think between the 787 and 737, Boeing is going to turn the tables on Airbus, much as Airbus turned the tables on Boeing in the 90's and early 00's.
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