Capt.Fantastic
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El Al "Security" Escort

Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:56 am

Is this done anywhere else besides Switzerland, or for anyone else besides El Al? ? I'm sure that armored vehicle provides the 737 with great companionship during taxi  Smile Looks like window dressing to me ...


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aa777jr
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RE: El Al "Security" Escort

Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:59 am

It's just for show mostly, but it's standard for El Al and AA at ZRH.

Regards.


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ERJ145LR
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RE: El Al "Security" Escort

Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:00 am

I mean... if its done in Switzerland, its probably done in Israel..after all, its a tad more dangerous there.
 
mia
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RE: El Al "Security" Escort

Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:03 am

I dont understand what makes El Al so special as to require this 'special' treatment. I understand the whole terrorist thing but still. El Al is not special. Do they pay for these services or do they get it for free? I know in Munich they have their own terminal. I am tired of our western governments cowtowing to Israel this is just an example.
"Like all great travelers, I have seen more than I remember, and remember more than I have seen."
 
ERJ145LR
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RE: El Al "Security" Escort

Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:04 am

So whats the point of it? I mean Zurich isnt exactly a dangerous place??!! is it just out of respect? What a boring job..to follow around a few planes in a tank.
 
Sabena332
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RE: El Al "Security" Escort

Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:09 am

Here in Germany they do also get a "special treatment", not always with an escort to the runway but mostly is the area around their gate locked by the Federal Border Guard and (rumor said so) the Mossad.

When you are doing the ramp tour in FRA, they tell you that you are not allowed to take pictures of LY planes, in my opinion is this only a reason more to get interested in them.

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
aviationwiz
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RE: El Al "Security" Escort

Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:13 am

LY pays for their added security. Not taking pictures of their planes is nuts, but the taxi escort is understandable.
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Sabena332
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RE: El Al "Security" Escort

Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:15 am

Quoting ERJ145LR (reply 4):
So whats the point of it? I mean Zurich isnt exactly a dangerous place??!! is it just out of respect? What a boring job..to follow around a few planes in a tank.


I agree 100%, I can absolutely not see a point of this tank escort in most countires of this world, it is just a waste of money!

But I guess that nobody cares as long as LY is state owned, money don't matter in this case.

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
aa777jr
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RE: El Al "Security" Escort

Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:16 am

Someone on here posted about walking by a LY gate at maybe LAX and being unfarely targeted by LY security. They only draw more attention to their carrier when they do stuff like this.
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
planenutz
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RE: El Al "Security" Escort

Wed Mar 02, 2005 2:50 pm

Last weekend, fo the first time ever, I saw a Los Angeles World Airports police car follow an EL AL 767 out of the gate down the taxiway. I asked an LAWA officer eating at the McDonalds in the International Terminal about it, and she said that its donw regularly in case there's a perimeter breach to the airport with a vehicle. This kind of makes sense, a car fully laden with explosives could ram a fence and position itself just under the plane while its taxiing and o a lot of damage.

I'm more taken aback by the ramp side body searches:


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jacobin777
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RE: El Al "Security" Escort

Wed Mar 02, 2005 5:06 pm

Quoting Planenutz (reply 9):
This kind of makes sense, a car fully laden with explosives could ram a fence and position itself just under the plane while its taxiing and o a lot of damage.



what is the security car going to do? Shoot the vehicle, better yet, get in front of it so it stops the supposed suicide bomber? I hope they are getting well paid for their efforts!!!

A bit paranoid if one asks me!
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DeltaMIA
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RE: El Al "Security" Escort

Wed Mar 02, 2005 5:13 pm

I could swear a couple months ago the same question was raised with the same picture and the first reply showed the same AA picture.

El Al's security is top notch. There is plenty more going on you don't see. These are just the visible images you tend to notice or are supposed to notice.
It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
 
ly7e7
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RE: El Al "Security" Escort

Wed Mar 02, 2005 5:18 pm

Quoting ERJ145LR (reply 2):
I mean... if its done in Switzerland, its probably done in Israel..after all, its a tad more dangerous there.


Not, it is not done in Israel. The over all security level is higher, so there is no need in such measures. We also monitor who enters our country, unlike Germany for example.

Quoting MIA (reply 3):
I know in Munich they have their own terminal.

No they have not. They just use a remote terminal.

Quoting Sabena332 (reply 7):
But I guess that nobody cares as long as LY is state owned


It is no longer state owned.


As far as I know (concerning DE, not CH) this security measure is provided courtesy of Bundesgrenzschutz, since the last thing they want to host is a terror act against an Israel a/c.

[Edited 2005-03-02 09:21:18]
2 things are endless: ignorance and space
 
Snoopy
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RE: El Al "Security" Escort

Wed Mar 02, 2005 5:26 pm

February 18, 1969, the PFLP attacked a taxiing EL AL aircraft in Zurich killing the FO and wounding the Captain. That's the reason...I know, it's over thirty years ago, but old habits die hard....

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ly7e7
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RE: El Al "Security" Escort

Wed Mar 02, 2005 5:28 pm

From the Bundesgrenzschutz site:

http://www.bundesgrenzschutz.de/down...schuere/Infobroschuere_BGS_Eng.pdf

"The Bundesgrenzschutz fulfils this duty mainly
through
œ checking the flight passengers and their hand
luggage and checked-in luggage using qualified
trained staff and sophisticated aviation security
technology
œ measures when objects are identified which
could cause danger, for example by seizing forbidden
objects such as weapons and ammunition
or by deactivating unconventional explosives
or incendiary devices
œ surveillance of the entire airport grounds,
œ carrying out protective measures for particularly
vulnerable flights and airlines (high-risk clearance)
"
2 things are endless: ignorance and space
 
Udo
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RE: El Al "Security" Escort

Wed Mar 02, 2005 5:39 pm

Quoting LY7E7 (reply 12):
Not, it is not done in Israel. The over all security level is higher, so there is no need in such measures. We also monitor who enters our country, unlike Germany for example.


I would not say the security level is higher in Israel - though you monitor your borders, suicide bombers cannot be stopped it seems.


The patrols by tank are totally ridiculous and make no sense at all. If some terrorists hide under some trees or elsewhere close to the airport fence they could still fire at the plane after turning onto the runway (with machine gun or Stingers), with or without tank. The tank is just "show" to increase the security impression for some people. A waste of money.


Regards
Udo
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ly7e7
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RE: El Al "Security" Escort

Wed Mar 02, 2005 6:06 pm

Udo,

The troop carriers (not tanks) are there because the authorities are aware of the fact the perimeter security is not good enough in many European airports. Their main goal though is to protect pax boarding/disembarking the a/c. Leave that aside, they provide a deterrence factor. I really do not know how efficient they really are, yet as long as there are organizations that their main cause includes targeting Israeli facilities overseas I don't think there's really a choice.
2 things are endless: ignorance and space
 
AirNZ
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RE: El Al "Security" Escort

Wed Mar 02, 2005 6:20 pm

"I dont understand what makes El Al so special as to require this 'special' treatment. I understand the whole terrorist thing but still. El Al is not special. Do they pay for these services or do they get it for free? I know in Munich they have their own terminal. I am tired of our western governments cowtowing to Israel this is just an example."

I notice your lack of comment on AA......what makes them so special??? To use your own logic, an awful lot of people are tired of governments kowtowing to the arrogance of Washington!
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HAWK21M
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RE: El Al "Security" Escort

Wed Mar 02, 2005 7:03 pm

EL AL When operates to Mumbai,Prior to Landing,An EL AL Security Vehicle Partols the Airport perimeter road [inside the Airport near the wall].
After the Aircraft touches down & proceeds to Taxi back,The Vehicle will accompany the Aircraft by driving down the perimeter road until it parks at its allotted stand.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
JHSfan
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RE: El Al "Security" Escort

Wed Mar 02, 2005 7:28 pm

When trying to secure something you must address the different kinds of threats.

When performing a body search on the ramp staff, the idea is to prevent he/she from carrying explosives, knives or guns to or inside the plane. The threat of Stinger missiles cannot be met in this way.

The idea of using an armored vehicle is not necessarily to prevent missiles from hitting the plane but to be visible and to prevent people with personal firearms (including machine guns) from attacking or to stop any attack performed in this way.
The vehicle will be a visible sign that some sort of security exists around this plane. Of course not all the security around the plane will be visible. Hopefully some attackers will loose courage or maybe just hesitate a few seconds, giving the police valuable seconds.

The attack in East Africa showed that Israeli planes may have means of addressing missile attacks.

Next to that I'm pretty sure that the police and El Al/Israeli security has a number of other ways of addressing threats. Things they keep to themselves  Smile

Yours in realtime
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boac707
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RE: El Al "Security" Escort

Thu Mar 03, 2005 2:14 am

El Al security world wide is a very no nonsense business. They are tenacious and very vigilant. I don't think I would class them as run off the mill security. From what I have seen, in most cases they are better trained than most police agencies.
smokey classics to the end of time
 
junior1970
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RE: El Al "Security" Escort

Thu Mar 03, 2005 2:23 am

I know that ELAL gets security escorts at AMS.
NW planes are being secured as well. Catering truck drivers, load managers and anyone who has business near a NW plane is being frisked for that matter.

I don't know about other U.S. carriers in AMS though.
 
rjpieces
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RE: El Al "Security" Escort

Thu Mar 03, 2005 2:36 am

I mean... if its done in Switzerland, its probably done in Israel..after all, its a tad more dangerous there.

TLV is probably the most secure airport in the world.

Is this done anywhere else besides Switzerland, or for anyone else besides El Al?

All American carriers using ZRH get escorted.


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I dont understand what makes El Al so special as to require this 'special' treatment.

Something about millions of people wishing to destroy their country ring a bell?

I understand the whole terrorist thing but still. El Al is not special. Do they pay for these services or do they get it for free? I know in Munich they have their own terminal.

El Al receives money from the Israeli government to pay for added security.

I am tired of our western governments cowtowing to Israel this is just an example.

How is this cowtowing to Israel?!!!!! American, Continental, and Delta all recieve the same security escort at ZRH as LY does because we have a common enemy. So please explain to me how this is cowtowing? LY is allowed to do whatever they want on their planes, and because of what they do, they are universally regarded as the safest airline in the world.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
hz747300
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RE: El Al "Security" Escort

Thu Mar 03, 2005 2:48 am

I have a different take on this. Since Switzerland is neutral, they never get to use their army. Someone mentioned that following a plane around is boring, I would think doing nothing is even more boring.

This gives the Swiss army something to do besides sharpening their pocket knives.

For those whining complainers about El Al receiving special treatment, remember that they have had three attacks on their ticket counters since 1985 when there were simultaneous attacks in Rome and Vienna, killing "innocent" people (innocent, in this case being not affiliated with Palestine or Israel).
Keep on truckin'...
 
babybus
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RE: El Al "Security" Escort

Thu Mar 03, 2005 2:50 am

Why doesn't El Al just use code share partners that way you wouldn't be able to tell where the plane had come from or the type of passenger it was carrying.

All this extra attention is completely unnecessary and must be an inconvenience to European airport operators.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
rjpieces
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RE: El Al "Security" Escort

Thu Mar 03, 2005 3:16 am

Why doesn't El Al just use code share partners that way you wouldn't be able to tell where the plane had come from or the type of passenger it was carrying.

I'm not quite sure I follow you. You suggest that El Al just stop flying....?

All this extra attention is completely unnecessary and must be an inconvenience to European airport operators.

I doubt it. They'd much rather go through the extra precautions than have a terrorist attack at their airport.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
LY4XELD
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RE: El Al "Security" Escort

Thu Mar 03, 2005 4:38 am

Quoting Babybus (reply 24):
All this extra attention is completely unnecessary and must be an inconvenience to European airport operators


Are you a European airport operator? I find it hard to believe that asking a single police vehicle to follow an aircraft, whether Israeli or otherwise, would throw a wrench into an airport operation. Besides, they should be used to it; LY has been flying into these airports for years. They know what comes along with LY serving their airport.

Quoting HZ747300 (reply 23):
Someone mentioned that following a plane around is boring, I would think doing nothing is even more boring.


This is not specific to Swiss operations; it happens anywhere LY operates (save TLV).

Since when is extra security a crime? These police vehicles don't effect pax. You'd think people would understand that *anything* can happen.
That's why we're here.
 
AMSSFO
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RE: El Al "Security" Escort

Thu Mar 03, 2005 4:39 am

The escorts are not the only security measures; ElAl also has armed guards in and around their planes. I think that they even do not fly to Sweden and Australia beacuse they are not allowed to arm their guards at the airports in those countries
 
Capt.Fantastic
Topic Author
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RE: El Al "Security" Escort

Thu Mar 03, 2005 4:56 am

RJpieces: I don't want to make this a political discussion, but El Al can afford to have show pieces like armored tanks because the USA gives them a blank check in foreign aid, literally as aid sent to Israel is not subject to an audit, like that sent to other countries. (FYI: The US sends more tax dollars to Israel than any other country, a very disproportionate allocation.)

Anyway, if a terrorist wants act, he will do so, tank or no tank. I wouldn't even call this tactic a deterrent. I see it as just the opposite, almost a silent persuasion saying: "wanna mess with me ... com'on, just try it"

I think the best preventive measures against terrorism are those a terrorist can't see and/or don't anticipate - This runway warrior is right in your face: A waste of money and resources. A more subtle approach would be to retrofit a big airport fire truck with armored plates, ammunition, and a SWAT team.
 
hz747300
Posts: 1906
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RE: El Al "Security" Escort

Thu Mar 03, 2005 5:11 am

The US gave over $15 Billion in Aid in 2003, almost double the next top nation, Japan with $8.91 Billion. The top recipients of US Aid were:

1. Egypt: $831 Million
2. Russia: $808 Million
3. Iraq: $775 Million
4. Congo: $749 Million
5. Israel: $666 Million
6. Pakistan: $656 Million
7. Jordan: $622 Million
8. Colombia: $513 Million
9. Afganistan: $427 Million
10. Ethiopia: $327 Million

I think only Israel has the stipulation that a certain % of aid money has to be spent on military equipment. But, let's not kid ourselves, Colombia would get no money if they sided with drug lords, Pakistan, could probably kiss its aid goodbye if it did not help in the Bin Laden search, etc...

More interesting, is that Aid is regional except for the US--the top recipient of Australian aid? Papua New Guinea, with $195 Million. Austria? Poland with $93 Million.

I would think that US would spend more in Central America and South America.
Keep on truckin'...
 
notbluejet
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RE: El Al "Security" Escort

Thu Mar 03, 2005 5:19 am

I can tell you here in JFK they have their own "EL Al" security follow the plane from touchdown to take off along the service road. They also have a Port Authority escort. All of thier parked planes have 24/7 security at hardstand/gate. I was told once these are armed guards. But i have yet to see anything as extreme as tanks following these guys around.
 
mNeo
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RE: El Al "Security" Escort

Thu Mar 03, 2005 5:30 am

Quoting Notbluejet (reply 30):
I can tell you here in JFK they have their own "EL Al" security follow the plane from touchdown to take off along the service road. They also have a Port Authority escort. All of thier parked planes have 24/7 security at hardstand/gate. I was told once these are armed guards. But i have yet to see anything as extreme as tanks following these guys around.



Actually i havent noticed any security from LY while at T4. I was boaring a LX flight and the LY flight was parked 2 gates away from it. I was able to calmly wakt the the T7 take pictures and the gate agent didnt say anything, nor did anyone. also the securty at T4 wasant anythign special.
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IAD777
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RE: El Al "Security" Escort

Thu Mar 03, 2005 5:40 am

Capt.Fantastic

You are uninformed. Get your facts straight before "not wanting to start a political debate" but then starting one based on facile assumptions and incorrect data.

[Edited 2005-03-02 21:46:46]
History shall be kind to me; for I intend to write it -WSC
 
legendDC9
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RE: El Al "Security" Escort

Thu Mar 03, 2005 5:44 am

Quoting MIA (reply 3):
I don't understand what makes El Al so special as to require this 'special' treatment. I understand the whole terrorist thing but still. El Al is not special. Do they pay for these services or do they get it for free? I know in Munich they have their own terminal. I am tired of our western governments cowtowing to Israel this is just an example


Hate to sound so critical but this level of ignorance is why LY has to be the most secure airline in the world. If you really did, as you claim to, "understand" the whole terrorist thing, you wouldn't be making such ignorant comments.

LY aircraft have a bullseye on them everywhere they go and the fact that so few incidents have actually occurred with their planes, proves how critical all these functions are. This is why so many attacks have happened on flights to Israel or LY ticket counters, but LY itself has been pretty much clean. TWA in Beirut, Air France in Entebbe, Sabena in TLV, the attack at LAX, Athens, Rome, all are attacks on Israel and the Israeli people. LY has to be safest airline in the world for a reason, some things are more for show and some are more discrete but it's all important and is handled by the best security personnel in the world.
 
JrMafia90
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RE: El Al "Security" Escort

Thu Mar 03, 2005 6:03 am

Why do American airlines has escorts in Zurich, is it that bad? Why only Zurich for American airlines? If it is that bad then why do people go there? I didn't think it was bad. If I owned my own jet I would make sure there is security escort. Even if I owned my own airline I would have security escort. Safe is better than sorry.
 
jacobin777
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RE: El Al "Security" Escort

Thu Mar 03, 2005 6:12 am

I personally don't have a problem with LY having security and a tank following them....just as long as its not MY dollars going to LY exclusively (i.e. if my tax dollars are going, then it should be for ALL air carriers), and LY agents/security agents have NO right to bother me outside the airport (as long as I'm not doing anything illegal). What bothers me is though it hasn't happened to me, I've read here a numerous amounts of time of people being harassed when an LY plane is about to approach or depart from a particular airport...that stuff doesn't fly with me (no pun intended)!
"Up the Irons!"
 
ricardofg
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RE: El Al "Security" Escort

Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:03 am

el al gets this special treatment everywhere...at yyz, theyh have they armoured vehichle, there own security task force, swat team at check in counters, there own special transfer lounge with security surrounding it, etc...its almost funny
 
prebennorholm
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RE: El Al "Security" Escort

Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:14 am

I have seen (almost) the same escort at CPH in the older days when it was so much easier to watch the ops.

But there was only one armored vehicle, plus one VW Golf. That was probably the best we could provide.

I could see people on the back seat of the Golf, but I didn't see if they carried weapons. I assume they did.

The armored vehicle "gave up" half way down the runway. The VW Golf was probably a GTI because it almost followed the plane at the wingtip until rotation.

Not so at Tel Aviv. I Know. I have been there. And I can assure you that at Tel Aviv you don't just drive a truckload of explosives through the airport fence.

...what makes El Al so special... etc....

After 30+ posts on this thread it is unbelievable how many posters think that they are wiser than the intelligence service they pay for on their tax bill.

And it is unbelievable how many people are willing to somehow give in to terrorism, if only it happens against a foreign country.

...Why don't El Al just codeshare...

And when an IRA bomb explodes in the London tube, why don't the Londoners just move out in the countryside? There is plenty of space in the wilderness of Scotland.

The armored vehicles are only the visible part of the complete and internationally agreed security concept around El Al ops. In the developed part of the world the majority of voters continuously put high priority on eliminating terrorism and are willing to pay for it. We pay the experts for doing the job and keeping it secret. So any individual meaning about the relevance of parts of that concept is meaningless and uninformed. Then I have said it politely.

So the armored vehicles are there as long as the experts find them to be a relevant part of the El Al security concept.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
planenutz
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RE: El Al "Security" Escort

Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:16 am

Ricardofg is correct. YYZ is has the most visibly secure operations for EL AL that I've seen at any airport. Last time I visited YYZ I happened to pass the EL Al check in. There were two heavily armed Peele Regional Police officers in addition to two EL AL plainclothes security staff (easy to recognize by the bulges inside their breast pockets). The police officers were dressed in military fatigues with machine guns and bullet proof vests. In addition a huge armored van was parked immediately outside the check-in area up on the sidewalk. A regular dressed police officer stood by with a sniffing dog.
Not all who wander are lost....
 
LY744
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RE: El Al "Security" Escort

Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:17 am

That's some sense of humour you got there Ricardo.


LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
Capt.Fantastic
Topic Author
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RE: El Al "Security" Escort

Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:28 am

I agree with Jacobin777: Although El Al is unfortunately a target for terrorism, we as US taxpayers should not have to pick up the tab for things like armored escorts.

lad777: My facts are correct. I will close with this: In addition to the direct aid, Israel receives indirect funds such as military support from the defense budget, forgiven loans, and special grants ... Suffice to say that Israel¹s total aid (direct and indirect) is at least five billion dollars annually. If you want sources, or more info email me privately.
 
prebennorholm
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RE: El Al "Security" Escort

Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:47 am

Dear Planenutz, it's in principle the same all over. It may be more or less visible from the outside due to the physical layout of the departure terminal.

As a non El Al passenger you only see the entrance to the system. I have been treated by the system all way through. It's in principle the same system all over.

It's not bad at all, only time consuming. But as LY744 pointed out: It works. You don't get on an El Al plane if you shouldn't.

As I said, not bad at all. But dear Ricardofg, I didn't notice any fun either. I never noticed any El Al passenger with such a weird sense of humor.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
ricardofg
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RE: El Al "Security" Escort

Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:55 am

oh, not to mention the two plained clothed armed officers that fly on every el al flight yyz-lax and yyz-tlv...
 
dairbus
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RE: El Al "Security" Escort

Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:59 am

Just to add to the discussion:

I was at YYZ two years ago parked along the perimeter at the end of 24L watching planes land with several other people when a police car drove up and parked across the street. They didn't get out of the car or ask us to leave but just sat there in their vehicle. Sure enough, a few minutes later an El Al 762 landed going almost right over us. The police then drove away. I was happy that they did not ask us to leave but were content just watching us.

I was at BRU last summer and they had a police car as an escort while taxing in. ZRH is the only place I have seen an APC on the airport grounds.

I also remember reading a magazine article written in cooperation with a aviation security expert who coached the writer about things that would raise red flags when he attempted to fly EWR-TLV on El Al a couple of years ago. One thing that stuck out in my mind was that the people doing security screening before check-in were not contractors but active duty Israeli Defense Forces personnel. Some of their procedures may be a little extreme but you have to consider their history over the last 30-35 years.
"I love mankind. It's people I can't stand." - Charles Shultz
 
prebennorholm
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Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2000 6:25 am

RE: El Al "Security" Escort

Thu Mar 03, 2005 8:04 am

Capt.Fantastic and Jacobin777, you are a minority in your own country. The US government is willing to pay a high price for not having an El Al plane blown up on US soil.

It doesn't matter whether your government may happen to be red or blue.

In all developed countries the governments agree with your government on that issue.

Please notice the word "developed". Any country, which doesn't agree with your government on this issue, cannot be considered developed.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
B707Stu
Posts: 893
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 4:15 pm

RE: El Al "Security" Escort

Thu Mar 03, 2005 8:41 am

Wow, I am completely amazed at what I'm reading here. And frankly, deeply disturbed and offended. I work 8 blocks from the World Trade Center and witnessed that morning. I'm still far from over what I saw. Here's a few reasons this thread disturbs and offends me.
1) If LY type security had been in place on 9/11 at BOS, EWR and IAD it is highly unlikely that date would be living in infamy.
2) After 9/11 most of the world's carriers ran to LY for security consulting.
3) It's no secret that Israel's existence riles many people. Attacking El Al (and innocent people), until they took a more aggressive security stance, was a popular past time for those who wish Israel extinct.
4) The Israeli's are not asking anyone to pay their security bills. They pay their own way.
5) This thread reminds me of how Israel was harshly criticized for taking out Iraq's nuclear threat in the 80's only now to be seen as visionary and right on target in preventing tremendous loss of life.

I'll end with this. LY, and any airline for that matter, has the right to provide any type of security they wish. Passengers have a right, through their purchasing tickets, to fly on whatever carrier they wish. Criticizing security measures of a nation working to secure it's people and aircraft smells like modern day anti-semitism masked in faux economic concern and envy. And before I'm accused of being a zionist, I'm Christian.
 
MissedApproach
Posts: 678
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:12 am

RE: El Al "Security" Escort

Thu Mar 03, 2005 8:43 am

Let me point out a few things for those of you who do not understand the concept of security. First of all, the vehicle pictured is an Armoured Personnel Carrier (APC), not a tank. Sort of like calling a 737 a bomber, totally different capability. That being said, even though its armour is lighter, the occupants would survive the average car bomb, unless we're talking about something on the scale of Oklahoma City. Also, if you can shoot the attackers before they get into position, their mission is a failure. Terrorists aren't too hyped about killing a few security guys, they want lots of civilians, preferably women & children. Finally, they like targets without ANY security. Security patrols won't eliminate all attacks just by being there, but the odds are very high that the bad guys will simply look for something easier.
To draw a parallel, having a cop drive up & down your street all night doesn't eliminate crime, but it does make it go somewhere else.
Can you hear me now?
 
AOMlover
Posts: 1191
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2001 6:03 pm

RE: El Al "Security" Escort

Thu Mar 03, 2005 8:46 am

And guess who took a "forbidden" picture at FRA of an El Al

MyAviation.net photo:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photo © Clément Guivarc'h


You can easily see the security around the aircraft.
 
todaReisinger
Posts: 902
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2001 4:19 am

RE: El Al "Security" Escort

Thu Mar 03, 2005 9:10 am

Although El Al is unfortunately a target for terrorism, we as US taxpayers should not have to pick up the tab for things like armored escorts.


US taxpayers don't pay the Swiss Army in ZRH....but it seems that some preconceived "ideas" regarding Israel make you say weird things on this thread...And btw, American airlines in Switzerland get also extra security. There's nothing more normal than trying to keep passengers safe.

An El Al pilot was killed in February 1969 when his Boeing 720 (he was the co-pilot on that flight) was attacked by Palestinian terrorists at ZRH. An El Al security officer shot the terrorists and prevented a bigger bloodshed.
In 1968, an El Al passenger was killed when Palestinian terrorists attacked the Boeing 707 he was seated in at Athens. That's maybe not enough for some to understand the need for special precautions...

And even if some of you guys are worried about the "inconveniences" (!) it creates for European airports...there are people who are worried with some higher interests...
I bitterly miss the livery that should never have been changed (repetition...)
 
texdravid
Posts: 1394
Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 3:21 pm

RE: El Al "Security" Escort

Thu Mar 03, 2005 9:21 am

B707stu,

Your comments are right on and I salute you for them.

Many on this thread make it look like El Al takes money directly from your wallet. Many want to believe that Israel gets more money in aid from the U.S. than any other country. Hosni Mubarak's government gets the highest aid.

They do the things they need to do to provide safe transportation to their passengers. They do a mighty fine job of it.

People need to separate whatever feelings they have for the state of Israel from El Al's operations.
Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.

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