aa777jr
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New DFW Terminal Set To Open In 05!

Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:13 am

DFW International Terminal D is a two million-square foot terminal capable of handling 37,000 passengers daily or 12.8 million passengers annually. DFW is the world's third busiest, offering nearly 2,000 flights per day and serving 57 million passengers a year. DFW serves 136 domestic and 32 international destinations worldwide.

Any new European or Pacific routes for AA with their new terminal? What new carriers might be lured into DFW with this new monster terminal? What is the official date in 2005 for the opening of Terminal D?


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drerx7
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RE: New DFW Terminal Set To Open In 05!

Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:20 am

Right now there is not a 'Build it and they will come' environment in the aviation industry; don't expect to see a big influx of new carriers because of this new terminal. It will see alot of AA domestic ops during the day--DFW is no LAX--all of the Euro traffic leave about the same time.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
isitsafenow
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RE: New DFW Terminal Set To Open In 05!

Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:20 am

Oh, I thought it was the new Southwest building....my mistake.
safe
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
 
aa61hvy
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RE: New DFW Terminal Set To Open In 05!

Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:27 am

As said above, don't expect much for now just because its built. We shall wait and see if someone new comes.
Go big or go home
 
galapagapop
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RE: New DFW Terminal Set To Open In 05!

Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:50 am

This terminal should greatly improve people's expeirences at DFW on AA. Most of DFW is okay but who can say no to a new terminal?
 
nomorerjs
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RE: New DFW Terminal Set To Open In 05!

Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:54 am

Build it at DFW and they will land it at IAH. The new terminal looks great, but it will be the home to many silver birds (all international flights plus AA service to LAX, LGA, and ORD). AA has effectively locked up DFW and the DFW Airport Board is there to protect them. CO is large at IAH, but not the size of AA at DFW. Also, WN keeps CO honest in Houston. The WA (supported by AA and the DFW Airport Board) protect AAs near monopoly at DFW. Unless it is a OneWorld Alliance member, expect few new airlines at DFW.
 
kanebear
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RE: New DFW Terminal Set To Open In 05!

Wed Mar 02, 2005 12:05 pm

Terminal D will be nice. The new peoplemover coming with it will be a godsend. The TrAAin will finally FINALLY die a long long overdue death.
 
galapagapop
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RE: New DFW Terminal Set To Open In 05!

Wed Mar 02, 2005 12:08 pm

Quoting Kanebear (reply 6):
The TrAAin will finally FINALLY die a long long overdue death.

Thank God!
 
aa777jr
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RE: New DFW Terminal Set To Open In 05!

Wed Mar 02, 2005 12:58 pm

Unless it is a OneWorld Alliance member, expect few new airlines at DFW.

Why else would they market the new terminal as "International" if the board at DFW is so biast in letting anyone other than One World fly. Bring NW 747 and UA 777 in there on international flights. Please advise.

Regards.
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
BH346
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RE: New DFW Terminal Set To Open In 05!

Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:14 pm

I've been looking forward to seeing the new terminal. I also look forward to the new tram system since my experience on the trAAin involved the thing being stuck for 15 minutes...literally quicker to walk...
Northwest Airlines - Some People Just Know How to Fly
 
1MillionFlyer
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RE: New DFW Terminal Set To Open In 05!

Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:19 pm

That Tran system was the bomb in 1976 when I was 8 years old. The last time I had to trasfer from AA to DL I wanted to cry. Down with the old tram!
Golf Foxtrot you are cleared for departure
 
ssides
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RE: New DFW Terminal Set To Open In 05!

Thu Mar 03, 2005 2:58 am

Quoting Aa777jr (reply 8):
Bring NW 747 and UA 777 in there on international flights.


I'd love to see the day that NW and UA fly widebody international flights from DFW. Unfortunately, I won't be alive then.
"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
 
NWAFA
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RE: New DFW Terminal Set To Open In 05!

Thu Mar 03, 2005 3:03 am

All the new airports look the same.
THANK YOU FOR FLYING NORTHWEST AIRLINES, WE TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS!
 
airfrnt
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RE: New DFW Terminal Set To Open In 05!

Thu Mar 03, 2005 3:05 am

Quoting Aa777jr (reply 8):
Bring NW 747 and UA 777 in there on international flights


The idea that UA would fly internationals out of DFW (where it does not have a hub) despite the fact that even DEN (which is a huge hub for them) 500 miles to the north does not have any international traffic is absurd. It simply won't happen.

DFW is on the poor side of timing here. DL's pullout from DFW is going to severly limit what traffic DFW does see. At the same time AA's international is pretty centered on ORD. I doubt that would change any time soon.
 
N839MH
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RE: New DFW Terminal Set To Open In 05!

Thu Mar 03, 2005 4:00 am

Jeff Fagen and all of his cronies at the DFW airport are really sweating on this HUGE gamble of terminal D.

The cost of operating out of Terminal D is 300% higher than currently being charged in the likes of Terminal E. (international flights that is).

Right after 9/11, DFW should have put a hold on the construction of this project. One of the BIG reasons Delta de-hubbed DFW was because of the anticipated new cost of operating out of DFW, i.e, landing fees and such.

From what airport employees have been saying is the fact it's going to be very expensive to operate out of Terminal D. The airport is very desperate in landing a new airline or two to start International service with huge incentives.

If you build it, doesn't necessarily mean they will come!
Solodude!
 
skedguy
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RE: New DFW Terminal Set To Open In 05!

Thu Mar 03, 2005 4:19 am

Quoting N839MH (reply 14):
Right after 9/11, DFW should have put a hold on the construction of this project. One of the BIG reasons Delta de-hubbed DFW was because of the anticipated new cost of operating out of DFW, i.e, landing fees and such.

From what airport employees have been saying is the fact it's going to be very expensive to operate out of Terminal D. The airport is very desperate in landing a new airline or two to start International service with huge incentives.

If you build it, doesn't necessarily mean they will come!


Regardless of what happens to the Wright Amendment, I believe DFW will be fine in the long-term. In terms of population (not geographic size), the Metroplex is now the sixth largest in the nation behind New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Washington D.C., and San Francisco (by comparison, HOU ranks #11). Thus, a metro area that large will inherently continue to produce O&Ds, especially as average airfares drop.

Sure, DFW is going to face some short-term pain, and the higher costs of operating at the airport and competing with AA may initially deter some new entrants. Long term, however, I believe DFW will be a robust operation, and people will look back at this period in the same way that they did when BI went belly-up in the early-80s.

Just my two cents.
 
drerx7
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RE: New DFW Terminal Set To Open In 05!

Thu Mar 03, 2005 4:29 am

Right--in another 20 years. There just isn't enough international traffic generated at DFW to warrant this facility--especially in these tumultuous times. IAH is THE international airport of Texas, while DFW will remain bigger in terms of overall ops and domestic ops, IAH will dominate it for international service for some time to come.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
ScottB
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RE: New DFW Terminal Set To Open In 05!

Thu Mar 03, 2005 5:25 am

What still boggles my mind is how the DFW Airport Board spent twice as much as the Houston Airport System and Continental just did for an international terminal with only five more gates (28 at DFW Terminal D vs. 23 at IAH Terminal E; however the existing Terminal D provides an additional 14 international gates at IAH for a total of 37) and significantly less passenger screening capability (2,800 per hour at DFW and 4,500 per hour at IAH).

It is very telling that DFW charges the highest PFC allowed by law ($4.50) while IAH and HOU don't charge one at all.

A shiny new international terminal is not going to attract new airlines to DFW if the passenger demand is not there. Even considering the strain on Terminal D, IAH had nearly 6.4 million international passengers in 2004 compared to 5.1 million at DFW. And with AA dominating the airport, non-oneworld carriers will have little interest in serving DFW.

I agree that part of the reason for DL pulling out of DFW was the fact that the bill was about to come due for all the new improvements put in place for AA. The new train and new international terminal (price tag, just over $2 billion together) really only benefit AA since Delta's operations were all in a single terminal and SkyTeam partner AeroMexico was able to use the FIS in Terminal E. Even though the price of operating at Terminal D would be higher to help pay for that boondoggle, shortfalls in revenue at DFW would have to be made up by all airlines at the airport.

As long as the DFW Airport Board continues to be the AMR Corporation's b!+ch, DFW will see very limited competition.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: New DFW Terminal Set To Open In 05!

Thu Mar 03, 2005 5:50 am

Quoting AirFrnt (reply 13):
At the same time AA's international is pretty centered on ORD

...what gives you that idea?
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
NikonDFW
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RE: New DFW Terminal Set To Open In 05!

Thu Mar 03, 2005 6:56 am

Quoting Drerx7 (reply 16):



DFW will pass IAH in Intl passengers in less then 4-5 years, maybe sooner. Some of it will be from AA and some from Intl carriers. Between AA,AE and AA's codeshare partner MX, DFW will see a major increase in just Mexico traffic alone, and this isn't counting Sun Country and all the other charters flying to mexico.

AA is in a better position to add Intl flights out of DFW then CO is to adding them at IAH. CO doesn't have enough planes to do any real expanding, as most widebodies and 757s seem to be adding new routes out of EWR.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: New DFW Terminal Set To Open In 05!

Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:07 am

Quoting NikonDFW (reply 19):
DFW will pass IAH in Intl passengers in less then 4-5 years, maybe sooner.

Nearly every industry trend is predicting the exact opposite... unless you seem to know something they do not.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
skedguy
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RE: New DFW Terminal Set To Open In 05!

Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:10 am

Quoting ScottB (reply 17):
A shiny new international terminal is not going to attract new airlines to DFW if the passenger demand is not there. Even considering the strain on Terminal D, IAH had nearly 6.4 million international passengers in 2004 compared to 5.1 million at DFW. And with AA dominating the airport, non-oneworld carriers will have little interest in serving DFW.


Quoting NikonDFW (reply 19):
DFW will pass IAH in Intl passengers in less then 4-5 years, maybe sooner. Some of it will be from AA and some from Intl carriers. Between AA,AE and AA's codeshare partner MX, DFW will see a major increase in just Mexico traffic alone, and this isn't counting Sun Country and all the other charters flying to mexico


ScottB, I tend to agree with NikonDFW. According to the latest numbers from the DOT, IAH and DFW were nearly EQUAL in terms of their O&D passengers. During the past year, IAH generated 1,869,227 O&Ds versus DFW, which generated 1,828,636. In my book, that's pretty close. I think the numbers you quoted included local and through/connect passengers.

If you want new, international flag carriers, it's the local O&Ds that count -- not the flow/connect as much. Having said that, IAH definitely carries a certain cache because of the international consulates located there, and in that sense it benefits by having more flag carriers. However, in my book (and in most airlines'), it's the number of passengers that count -- not the number of airlines -- that makes an airport viable.

Bottom line, I'll be darn surprised if DFW doesn't eclipse IAH in the coming years.
 
102IAHexpress
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RE: New DFW Terminal Set To Open In 05!

Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:13 am

Quoting NikonDFW (reply 19):
DFW will pass IAH in Intl passengers in less then 4-5 years, maybe sooner.


Uhm...Not going to happen.

According to this article in the Star Telegram (free registration)
http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/loca...tates/texas/northeast/10773218.htm

DFW is facing the toughest times in its 30-year history. Of particular interest is a quote from AMR’s CFO James Beer who listed DFW Terminal D among "drivers of costs going in the wrong direction."

DFW is home to the world’s largest airline, but unfortunately for DFW AA international opps are focused on ORD and MIA.

DFW also has to contend with IAH which continues to dominate Texas’ international traffic. IMO I see DFW loosing some foreign metal before they gain some. KE would better be served in IAH as opposed to DFW which has a limited Sky Team presence.

102IAHexpress
 
Indy
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RE: New DFW Terminal Set To Open In 05!

Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:19 am

Will this new terminal handle passenger flow differently from the others or will it be the same mess? I was in terminal C recently and it wasn't a pleasant experience. Makes it hard to find people when DFW is your destination. I think that terminal had something like 4 or more different exits. There was no real central meeting place. I think that was the first airport I've ever been to where there wasn't a defined place where you could tell someone in advance to meet you.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
drerx7
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RE: New DFW Terminal Set To Open In 05!

Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:24 am

DFW won't be surpassing IAH at any point in the near future. Statistics just don't back it up. If DFW is lucky they will keep Korean in the long term and not lose them to IAH and the Skyteam connections to be had at IAH.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
N276AASTT
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RE: New DFW Terminal Set To Open In 05!

Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:43 am

The truth of the matter is that there have been several airlines who saw potential in DFW and decided to start service there. JAL, Air France, and Air Canada are just come of who used to fly in. I think DFW Airport caters too much to AA with it's fortress hub there. AA cornered the Japan and France markets so both JL and AF suffered. Last I heard, British Airways service to Gatwick wasn't doing so well. Delta pulled out last year. Lufthansa is holding their own on the FRA run. Other than that, AA has DFW pretty much to itself. I can only really see some of the Oneworld partners coming into Terminal D and taking advantage of the connections with AA. Maybe Iberia service to Madrid, or perhaps a flight from AerLingus. I wish Qantas or Cathay Pacific would show up, but that's a pipedream. We could see sometime in the future some airlines giving it another try like JAL or Air France, but that's a long time from now.
Dejale Caer tu el Peso! YOMO
 
NikonDFW
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RE: New DFW Terminal Set To Open In 05!

Thu Mar 03, 2005 8:36 am

KE's DFW flights are full of O&D traffic as there's a large Korean population in the DFW metroplex, besides AA fed more passengers to KE then DL did.

AF will be back in a few years.

Air Canada still serves DFW via it's regional partner Jazz, which is looking at adding more flights into DFW from YUL and YYC.

Cathay Pacific is starting DFW service on Aug,1st with 3 weekly 747F freighters on a HKG-ANC-DFW-ATL routing. DFW-HKG passanger service will follow soon via CX or AA.

Mexicana will start DFW either this year or early next year depending upon aircraft avaliability, adding new routes and supporting AA on others.

It's no secret that QF is looking hard at DFW, but only time will tell.

Yes, the cost of operating out of the new D international terminal will be higher, AA will operate more flights to help offset the higher costs.
 
ScottB
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RE: New DFW Terminal Set To Open In 05!

Thu Mar 03, 2005 8:46 am

Quoting NikonDFW (reply 19):
DFW will pass IAH in Intl passengers in less then 4-5 years, maybe sooner.


This is extremely unlikely. IAH would have to show no growth while DFW would have to continue growing at its current pace to simply catch up with IAH in 3 years.

Quote:

Some of it will be from AA and some from Intl carriers. Between AA,AE and AA's codeshare partner MX, DFW will see a major increase in just Mexico traffic alone, and this isn't counting Sun Country and all the other charters flying to mexico.


And CO has its SkyTeam partner AM (with its U.S. HQ in Houston), not to mention a better location to continue the mExpressJet expansion into Mexico.

Quote:

AA is in a better position to add Intl flights out of DFW then CO is to adding them at IAH. CO doesn't have enough planes to do any real expanding, as most widebodies and 757s seem to be adding new routes out of EWR.


Most destinations in Latin America don't require anything larger than a 737 or 757 from IAH or DFW (aside from perhaps SCL, GRU, GIG, EZE, MVD, ASU). And it is telling that AA chose ORD as its gateway to China rather than DFW.

In any case, IAH has three significant advantages over DFW for generating international traffic demand: (1) a greater number of oil and oil-related services companies, (2) Houston is one of the largest ports in the nation, and (3) Houston's population is more international than the Metroplex's.

[Edited 2005-03-03 00:49:02]
 
QantasHeavy
Posts: 277
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RE: New DFW Terminal Set To Open In 05!

Thu Mar 03, 2005 11:44 am

Just for the record... NMW did fly 742s (DFW-SFO-NRT) to DFW in the 80s and UA did fly 762s (DFW-DEN-ANC) then too.

I think DFW's future growth will be the Pacific and Latin America. KE does have a large O&D market, but the move to IAH would make a lot of sense -- especially if CX started DFW service with a one-stop service with a SE/NE Asian gateway. IF QF had the 345 or the 777LR, they'd be there... but that will be a while. Maybe the 380 one day if the east coast of the US would generate enough through traffic. Currently, Qantas can't get passengers to the east coast of the US in a timely manner; they could if they arrived into DFW at 6AM Central time. They want that and the AA passenger/cargo connections the DFW super hub offers... but the market and aircraft performance will have to evolve for that to happen.

DFW will lure someone interesting in there within a year -- it will be too political not to have a small victory to show.
 
thomasphoto60
Posts: 3686
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 1:04 pm

RE: New DFW Terminal Set To Open In 05!

Thu Mar 03, 2005 1:59 pm

I love these IAH vs DFW exchanges.

BTW, Sked guy where do you get you info? How did DFW jump up so fast?
Quoting Skedguy (reply 15):


[quote=Skedguy,reply=15]In terms of population (not geographic size), the Metroplex is now the sixth largest in the nation behind New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Washington D.C., and San Francisco.

http://geography.about.com/library/weekly/aa010102a.htm

Scroll down

Thomas
"Show me the Braniffs"
 
aa777jr
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RE: New DFW Terminal Set To Open In 05!

Thu Mar 03, 2005 2:20 pm

Yes, the cost of operating out of the new D international terminal will be higher, AA will operate more flights to help offset the higher costs.

New international routes from DFW?
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
boeingfever777
Posts: 1990
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RE: New DFW Terminal Set To Open In 05!

Thu Mar 03, 2005 2:31 pm

Typical A.net political redtape!  Angry  Angry

All the posts and not one answered his main question the opening date.

What is the official date in 2005 for the opening of Terminal D?

From what I read its mid July 05'.

http://www.dallascityhall.com/dallas...s/20040804_dfw_budget_briefing.pdf

http://www.aviation-industry.com/ate...s/current_afmpdfs/AFAM34dallas.pdf

Also look here for some new photos. Looks nice hope and wish DFW the best.
http://www.dfwairport.com/cdp/terminald/photos.html
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
 
N839MH
Posts: 298
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2001 4:05 pm

RE: New DFW Terminal Set To Open In 05!

Thu Mar 03, 2005 4:20 pm

July 9th, 10th or the 11th as of yesterday from the Airport employees.

The skytrain will officially open on March 17th, granted no more mechanical problems.
Solodude!
 
airstatdfw
Posts: 335
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RE: New DFW Terminal Set To Open In 05!

Thu Mar 03, 2005 4:27 pm

Skylink is to open in the middle of april with the upgrades to be complete in the next couple of weeks. The Term is still sometime in the middle of July.
 
drerx7
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RE: New DFW Terminal Set To Open In 05!

Thu Mar 03, 2005 10:40 pm

Just for those that did not look at Thomas' link--the Metroplex is 9th and Houston is 10th.   
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
texdravid
Posts: 1394
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RE: New DFW Terminal Set To Open In 05!

Thu Mar 03, 2005 11:04 pm

Yes, these DFW threads are funny because on the one hand you have DFW loyalists commenting on how DFW is going to get all these new international carriers and flights...

On the other hand, are the people who will quote every statistic to show how DFW is lucky to have the service it has. These people are usually IAH supporters!!

The truth to the matter is that the DFW region is a nice place to live and work, but it has no tourist interests to foreign nationals...I mean c'mon, after the Kennedy assassination site, you would be hard pressed to find a "tourist" location. Don't even start with Southfork ranch!!

The DFW area is also overblown in terms of a business destination, especially with the decline in the telecom industry.

So, what does DFW airport do? They build a huge white elephant, a huge increase in capacity for an airport that just lost Delta, and has many unused gates. Other than Korean, British, and LH, who is exactly chomping at the bit to fly their metal to DFW and Terminal D?

This is pathetic and lame. If DFW doesn't look out, Korean and British may leave too!!
Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
 
skedguy
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RE: New DFW Terminal Set To Open In 05!

Fri Mar 04, 2005 1:32 am

Quoting Drerx7 (reply 34):
Just for those that did not look at Thomas' link--the Metroplex is 9th and Houston is 10th


Yeah, the numbers from ThomasPhoto60 are based on the 2000 US Census. In the past year, however, the definitions of Metro areas have again been redefined, and in combination with the natural increases in population over the past five years, DFW is now sixth and HOU is eleventh. In the interest of good faith reporting, so to speak, I'll go search for the link to the news article I read and post it here. Stay tuned.
 
thomasphoto60
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RE: New DFW Terminal Set To Open In 05!

Fri Mar 04, 2005 2:52 am

Skedguy,

No disrespect intended but I find it difficult to believe that in 4-5 short years that the DFW Metroplex has exploded in population to the point of surpassing Philly, Boston and Detroit. Every population census model that I researched shows the same figures. If what I am reading in your post is correct, you are basically saying that the powers that be in the Metroplex made some huge land and population grabs over the past year? I would really like to see that article.

Thomas
[
Quoting Skedguy (reply 36):
Yeah, the numbers from ThomasPhoto60 are based on the 2000 US Census. In the past year, however, the definitions of Metro areas have again been redefined, and in combination with the natural increases in population over the past five years, DFW is now sixth and HOU is eleventh. In the interest of good faith reporting, so to speak, I'll go search for the link to the news article I read and post it here. Stay tuned.
"Show me the Braniffs"