UA744Flagship
Topic Author
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Ted On The Grow

Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:08 pm

Contrary to the majority of this board's opinion, Ted is doing well.

At least that is according to UA, who have no incentive to misrepresent the case, especially with the hawkeye supervision and governance over a company seemingly in perpetual Chapter 11.

Ted will be growing from 47 to 56 planes (mainline conversions) to expand service our of DEN/ORD/IAD to Florida, the Caribbean, and Mexico.
no wire hangers!
 
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alberchico
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RE: Ted On The Grow

Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:12 pm

Ted is needed to stop Frontier from siphoning off customers and to a lesser extent Southwest. They cannot retreat or that would cause serious problems in the future
short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
 
Orion737
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RE: Ted On The Grow

Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:14 pm

Is Ted no-frills. Do you get a complimentary soft drink? I know even full service carriers in the States dont feed you so I wont even ask about food.
 
Bicoastal
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RE: Ted On The Grow

Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:17 pm

I hear from UA people that Ted is doing well with the exception of Fort Lauderdale (FLL). Though the loads are good, there's too much competition driving down the fares. They'll likely reduce the number of flights to FLL after the spring break travel period. They say United is looking at Palm Beach (PBI) and Fort Meyers (RSW), not as alternatives to FLL but as new routes for Ted.
Airliners.net has many forums. It has spell check and search functions. Use them before posting!
 
UA744Flagship
Topic Author
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RE: Ted On The Grow

Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:18 pm

Quoting Orion737 (reply 2):
Is Ted no-frills. Do you get a complimentary soft drink? I know even full service carriers in the States dont feed you so I wont even ask about food.


Answer:
http://www.flyted.com
no wire hangers!
 
Orion737
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RE: Ted On The Grow

Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:28 pm

Oh those awful snack boxes rear their head again. They are a disgrace, a few bags of raisins or chips or pretzels described as a meal. Does any US carrier offer something hot on a domestic flight in Y?

Have all the ovens been ripped out of the galleys? They may as well have
 
DAYflyer
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RE: Ted On The Grow

Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:10 pm

Quoting UA744Flagship (reply 0):
Ted will be growing from 47 to 56 planes (mainline conversions) to expand service our of DEN/ORD/IAD to Florida, the Caribbean, and Mexico.


Good for them. Nice to hear this. I wish them much success.
One Nation Under God
 
su
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RE: Ted On The Grow

Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:13 pm

I flu once with Ted and I loved it. Wish them to grow more and more...
"Life is too short to take it serious..."
 
aviatortj
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RE: Ted On The Grow

Thu Mar 03, 2005 12:34 am

Quoting SU (reply 7):
I flu once with Ted and I loved it. Wish them to grow more and more...


Same here. I would love to see them go into RSW. Hopefully that would increase UA's minimal presence there due to the US codeshare. With the new terminal at RSW opening soon, Ted and WN could make that a much less expensive airport to get in and out of! Bottom line is, while I am glad to see Ted expanding, I hope that is supplemental growth rather than replacement.

-TJ
 
airfrnt
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RE: Ted On The Grow

Thu Mar 03, 2005 1:57 am

Ted is capitalizing on F9's discovery that international out of DEN is not a bad idea (F9 is building a nice little Mexican route system real fast). Other then that, it's UA under a different logo.

What you are seeing above is essentially branding. Ted still uses UA mechanics and UA infrastructure. This makes it really easy to cook the books, ie show Ted making a profit when some of the other expenses get eaten by other areas.

My guess is that Ted is a last ditch position for UA. It's something they can either rebrand too or something they can sell off in the future to make money and keep the main product alive.

If UA were able to trim there fleet significantly to one to three types of planes, I suspect that some of the paper revenue that Ted is making would turn into profit for UA.

Ted was launched with much fanfare here in DEN, but with the exception of the occasional article about UA / Ted in the newspaper, there is no real loyalty to it.

F9 on the other hand is impressively popular in colorado and it is severely out marketing UA at this point.
 
F9Animal
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RE: Ted On The Grow

Thu Mar 03, 2005 2:08 am

Maybe Frontier should make another airline to compete with TED.


Names that come to mind;

1. FRO
2. TIER
3. FRONT
5. WHOLE
4. DIFFERENT
5. ANIMAL

Alright.... I tried! Let the flaming begin!
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
AA767400
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RE: Ted On The Grow

Thu Mar 03, 2005 2:12 am

Oh those awful snack boxes rear their head again. They are a disgrace, a few bags of raisins or chips or pretzels described as a meal. Does any US carrier offer something hot on a domestic flight in Y?

Oh god lets not talk about European shorthaul. Given that many European airlines charge for non-alcoholic drinks, when not ONE U.S. airline does this practice. Lets not pick on this side of the Atlantic, when there is a lot to pick at over on your side.  Big grin

I know even full service carriers in the States don't feed you so I wont even ask about food.

Wrong! CO has hot meals on many flights domestically. Once again, get you facts straight before you go picking.
"The low fares airline."
 
N1120A
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RE: Ted On The Grow

Thu Mar 03, 2005 2:14 am

Quoting Alberchico (reply 1):
Ted is needed to stop Frontier from siphoning off customers and to a lesser extent Southwest. They cannot retreat or that would cause serious problems in the future


UA and F9 actually function pretty synergistically in DEN because without F9 providing the "Southwest effect" traffic would likely not be as high as it is. The main issue is yields, not loads. Southwest has shown time and time again that they up everyone's passenger counts. It is up to the other carriers to run their operation in a better way.

Quoting Orion737 (reply 2):
Is Ted no-frills. Do you get a complimentary soft drink? I know even full service carriers in the States dont feed you so I wont even ask about food.


No-frills in the US always includes soft drinks and some small snack like peanuts, pretzels, etc. I liken it to this. In the US, we will accept less at the upper end (like international J/F) than will a european, but our minimum standards are higher. If cabotage were allowed and FR tried to open up in the US, they would have to change some of their practices to be acceptable to the US consumer.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
UALPHLCS
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RE: Ted On The Grow

Thu Mar 03, 2005 3:19 am

I've flown Ted now several times. First to PHX from ORD, I was in a middle seat in the back, which was no more uncomfortable than middle seat on any other airline.

Then I flew from ONT to DEn this time in an Economy plus window. It was very nice.

The BOB food offered is very good, and free cookies and drinks are offered if you don't go for a BOB meal.

Removal of the ovens on the Ted planes was a good idea. When you think that hot meals were only offered for dinner flights for the most part. Removing the extra weight of the ovens saves that much fuel on the flights.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Ted On The Grow

Thu Mar 03, 2005 3:29 am

"At least that is according to UA, who have no incentive to misrepresent the case"

Are you kidding???? They have every incentive to misrepresent the fact that they are wasting time on money on a new paint scheme that offers no benefits.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
UA744Flagship
Topic Author
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RE: Ted On The Grow

Thu Mar 03, 2005 4:54 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (reply 14):
Are you kidding???? They have every incentive to misrepresent the fact that they are wasting time on money on a new paint scheme that offers no benefits.


No, I'm not joking.

It's crazy and inconceivable that any company would continue to spend money on such a venture if it offered absolutely no benefits, especially when it is under the overwatch of the bankruptcy court and at the mercy of its creditors.

Contrary to popular opinion, being in Ch 11 is not a fun thing. A company has a lot less flexibility and freedom to do as it wants.

So to assert that United is expanding Ted as a consipiracy theory because it is "ashamed" for an alleged past mistake on its investment is ludicrous.

Wake up.
no wire hangers!
 
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mariner
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RE: Ted On The Grow

Thu Mar 03, 2005 5:27 am

I note that some claim profitability for Ted.

Yet United lost more money in January 05 (Since Ted) than they did in Janaury 04 (Before Ted) and the price of fuel didn't account for all of the difference.

January should be a great month for the leisure destinations that Ted serves - Mexico and Florida, et al.

So if Ted was "profitable" - even operationally so - then mainline must have lost even more money in January.

Smoke and mirrors?

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: Ted On The Grow

Thu Mar 03, 2005 5:56 am

Quoting UA744Flagship (reply 15):
No, I'm not joking.


Don't waste your time with Maverick...

It's this simple. If Ted was losing money, would UA be expanding it?
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Ted On The Grow

Thu Mar 03, 2005 6:21 am

"It's crazy and inconceivable that any company would continue to spend money on such a venture if it offered absolutely no benefits"

It probably does offer benefits but as I've said many times before, all of those benefits could have been achieved with something similar to Delta's Simplifares without any of the costs, confusion, and inefficiencies that Ted produces.

" If Ted was losing money, would UA be expanding it?"

The same reason Song, Delta Express, Metrojet, Continental Lite, United Shuttle, etc., were all expanded at one point in time or another. Remember WestPac's major expansion? What did that lead to? What about People Express? SABENA? I can go on....

If United ends up switching its entire domestic network over to Ted, I could see the benefit of this tomfoolery. Until then, Ted remains one of the dumbest p.o.s. in the history of aviation.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
UALPHLCS
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RE: Ted On The Grow

Thu Mar 03, 2005 6:26 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (reply 18):
If United ends up switching its entire domestic network over to Ted, I could see the benefit of this tomfoolery. Until then, Ted remains one of the dumbest p.o.s. in the history of aviation.


This is an example of why Maverick is running a major airline and not sitting on his computer commenting on those who do.

Oh! Wait...
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Ted On The Grow

Thu Mar 03, 2005 6:28 am

"Oh! Wait..."

Same could be said for those doting Ted fans that drank the koolaid...whats your point?  Yeah sure
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
petazulu
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RE: Ted On The Grow

Thu Mar 03, 2005 6:29 am

Quoting Orion737 (reply 5):


Orion, I was on a flight yesterday on CO from Houston to LGA and I was served a hot meal. Nothing fancy- but it was such a nice change. Leaves soft spot for CO in my mind. They also came about the cabin at least 3 times on a 3 hour flight offering drinks. CO is quite a professional bunch and their planes are new too. Oh- one of my flights was on a wingleted 737.
 
N1120A
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RE: Ted On The Grow

Thu Mar 03, 2005 6:59 am

Quoting UALPHLCS (reply 13):
The BOB food offered is very good, and free cookies and drinks are offered if you don't go for a BOB meal.


Yeah, say that when one makes you sick  Pissed Also, they are nowhere near worth the $10. Just BIA (Buy In Airport) or BOTW (Buy On The Way)
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
mauriceb
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RE: Ted On The Grow

Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:09 am

how do they manage to get an airplane at every UAL mainline route when a very big number of 737's left the fleet and 9 busses are going to ted?
 
flyman33178
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RE: Ted On The Grow

Thu Mar 03, 2005 8:24 am

lets not forget they are also adding flights out of MDW!!
these flights are obviously there to combat ATA, Airtran, Frontier, and Southwest.


I flew them once from LAS-ORD. I enjoyed the flight...watched a movie...but had to pay $7.00 for a Bennigan's sandwich...

But at the end of the day...TED is still under United's infastructure....which
means it is still all one airline!!

I hope they continue to succeed!!
 
F9Animal
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RE: Ted On The Grow

Thu Mar 03, 2005 9:46 am

Quoting Flyman33178 (reply 24):
lets not forget they are also adding flights out of MDW!!
these flights are obviously there to combat ATA, Airtran, Frontier, and Southwest.


UA is showing their muscle alright! Can I hear another 300 million loss in the wind? Maybe UA should quit worrying about the LCC's, and focus on running the airline.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
UA772IAD
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RE: Ted On The Grow

Thu Mar 03, 2005 9:51 am

Quoting Mariner (reply 16):

January should be a great month for the leisure destinations that Ted serves - Mexico and Florida, et al.

Typically, January is a low time for leisure travel. Think about it... the major holiday rush is over (Christmas-New Years), there are no holidays, only MLK's B-Day, in which most people still have to work. And, people have to work harder to pay their bills which have increased for utilities (heating if they live in a cold area), and all the money spent from the holidays. Most people are also saving up to spend money to travel over President's holiday, or in March.

Quoting MaverickM11 (reply 18):
similar to Delta's Simplifares without any of the costs, confusion, and inefficiencies that Ted produces.

I don't think you understand Simplifares. They are actually MORE confusing than TED will ever be. Although it has good benefits, it also has lots of hidden rules, such as:

  • Advance-purchase tickets still require a round trip and most of them require a one-night stay in place of a Saturday stay.

  • SimpliFares does not include international travel and doesn't even cover the entire United States. It only applies to the 48 contiguous states and not even every route. On the Delta Shuttle between Boston, New York and Washington, for example, fares remain offensively high. (A New York/LaGuardia-Washington/National flight still costs around $240 one-way, which is more than $1 per flight mile.)

  • Also exempt from SimpliFares: Delta code-share flights operated by Continental, Northwest and Alaska airlines and even Delta Connection commuter flights operated by SkyWest.

  • SimpliFares adopts the vile ticketing surcharge added last year by other Big Six carriers: An at-the-airport ticket purchase incurs a $10 fee and a ticket booked by telephone costs $5 more.


  • Based on this, the more and more Simplifares is used on a given flight, there will less perks for fully paying customers, as DL will make room for more SF flyers. Perks such as upgrades for elite members will dissappear.
    -Please check your facts before making generalizations. Especially when comparing a program to an airline. Simplifares is designed for people who show up the airport and buy a ticket an hour before their flight (DL refers to them as "walk-ups", whereas TED is designed for advanced reservations, and walk up).

    Works Consulted: http://www.usatoday.com/travel/columnist/grossman/2005-01-31-grossman_x.htm
    http://www.usatoday.com/travel/columnist/brancatelli/2005-01-07-brancatelli_x.htm

    [Edited 2005-03-03 02:10:00]

    [Edited 2005-03-03 02:11:04]
     
    FA4UA
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    RE: Ted On The Grow

    Thu Mar 03, 2005 9:55 am

    FLAGSHIP, you yet again rock man!

    Orion 737 says:

    Oh those awful snack boxes rear their head again. They are a disgrace, a few bags of raisins or chips or pretzels described as a meal. Does any US carrier offer something hot on a domestic flight in Y?

    Have all the ovens been ripped out of the galleys? They may as well have


    Those snack boxes have doubled our customer survey scores for onboard meals... seems to be a bit more substantial than just raisins in a box. United still serves hot meals on our transcontinental flights in economy and most flights over 2 hrs long in our business and first cabins.

    FA4UA
    The debate continues... Starwood or Hyatt... which is better
     
    galapagapop
    Posts: 861
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    RE: Ted On The Grow

    Thu Mar 03, 2005 10:06 am

    Quoting UA744Flagship (reply 15):
    No, I'm not joking.

    It's crazy and inconceivable that any company would continue to spend money on such a venture if it offered absolutely no benefits, especially when it is under the overwatch of the bankruptcy court and at the mercy of its creditors.

    Contrary to popular opinion, being in Ch 11 is not a fun thing. A company has a lot less flexibility and freedom to do as it wants.

    So to assert that United is expanding Ted as a consipiracy theory because it is "ashamed" for an alleged past mistake on its investment is ludicrous.

    Wake up.

    Right now they may be wasting money but in the long run it will benefit them by either it being bought out or even better yet the creditors and lenders see Ted as profitable(when really its clever accounting, adding more costs to UA taking away from TED), then give UA tons of loans and money. They can than just hover in BK lower their costs more and more (by cutting the pension plan completely Pissed ) and eventually emerge when the US economy is back and able to support another low-yield airline. Also Ted expanding helps prove just this without even having to prove any numbers. Its impossible for UA to making money on TED, same mechanics, crew and rampers, and operating A320's only does nothing as its still UA repairing the planes they could have a 744 and all it would do is operate with the same costs as UA mainline(maybe Big thumbs up ). TED can be used to stir up markets with something "new" and gain pax, by using lower fares, that will join the UA FF program and before you know UA is increasing FF fliers and pax itself. UA is doing what its been doing for the past three years! TRYING TO SCREW PEOPLE, especially their employess....past and present! So no... You WAKE UP!

    Cheers!
    Galapagapop
     
    FriendlySkies
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    RE: Ted On The Grow

    Thu Mar 03, 2005 10:15 am

    Quoting F9Animal (reply 25):
    Maybe UA should quit worrying about the LCC's, and focus on running the airline.


    Unfortunately, in this day and age, worrying about the LCCs is part of running the airline. If the legacies had paid attention to the growing threat while they were making insane profits, they might be a little better prepared.
     
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    mariner
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    RE: Ted On The Grow

    Thu Mar 03, 2005 10:39 am

    UA772IAD:

    January may not be the best month of the Flroida/Mexico winter season, but it sure as heck ain't bad.

    Or are you saying that Ted was not profitable in January?

    cheers

    mariner
    aeternum nauta
     
    UA772IAD
    Posts: 1269
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    RE: Ted On The Grow

    Thu Mar 03, 2005 10:47 am

    My appologies, I was talking about the month in general... especially compared to February or March, especially.
     
    MaverickM11
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    RE: Ted On The Grow

    Thu Mar 03, 2005 11:17 am

    "there will less perks for fully paying customers, as DL will make room for more SF flyers. Perks such as upgrades for elite members will dissappear."

    As opposed to the nonexistant upgrades on Ted?

    "Especially when comparing a program to an airline. Simplifares is designed for people who show up the airport and buy a ticket an hour before their flight (DL refers to them as "walk-ups", whereas TED is designed for advanced reservations, and walk up).
    "

    They're the same thing. Both airlines are using the P.R. of lower fares to hopefully draw more customers. UA took the expensive, nonsensical route; Delta just lowered their fares, convoluted rules aside.
    E pur si muove -Galileo
     
    lvkewlkid
    Posts: 104
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    RE: Ted On The Grow

    Thu Mar 03, 2005 11:23 am

    Quoting AA767400 (reply 11):
    Oh god lets not talk about European shorthaul. Given that many European airlines charge for non-alcoholic drinks, when not ONE U.S. airline does this practice.



    One US Airline, Allegiant DOES charge for soft drinks.
     
    flashmeister
    Posts: 2671
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    RE: Ted On The Grow

    Thu Mar 03, 2005 11:29 am

    I still think its hilarious that the way that United competes with the LCC threat is to offer a 'no-frills' product that is less comfort than its competitors without the high-yield F seats that are the heart and soul of legacy revenue models, in the same airline infrastructure that the rest of the (oft-delayed) airline uses.

    Old airline trick: Pull crap off shelf. Repackage crap. Sell crap as new product. Put crap back on shelf.

    Frontier's base product is easier to use and more comfortable than United's mainline product, so United rolls out a really bad version of an inferior product as a means to respond to a superior product. Perhaps it's the Chicagoland water.
     
    UA772IAD
    Posts: 1269
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    RE: Ted On The Grow

    Thu Mar 03, 2005 11:29 am

    I think that UA flyers farmiliar with no upgrades on TED and would expect that. Eyeballing their route map, there isn't a TED flight that lasts more than 3 - 3 1/2 hours, it's not like TED is flying transcon.
    Also, TED does offer an upgrade... ECON+ which is a big and great upgrade from regular econ. And you had better bet that FF members get that priority. How many other carriers offer a "mini-upgrade" in coach?
     
    FriendlySkies
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    RE: Ted On The Grow

    Thu Mar 03, 2005 11:32 am

    Quoting UA772IAD (reply 35):
    How many other carriers offer a "mini-upgrade" in coach?


    I'd like to revise your question. How many other carriers in the domestic US offer that upgrade.  Big grin

    Most European carriers offer it I believe.
     
    MaverickM11
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    RE: Ted On The Grow

    Thu Mar 03, 2005 12:44 pm

    "I think that UA flyers farmiliar with no upgrades on TED and would expect that.
    "

    Problem is noone is familiar with what route is Ted and what is UA other than airliners.netters. A frequent flier flying DEN-PHX for instance, may buy a ticket on UA and not know it's Ted until they get to the gate and realize there's no First Class. Telling them "the route's under 3.5 hours" is not going to fly.

    "ECON+ which is a big and great upgrade from regular econ"

    But not as good as the First Class upgrade that previously existed.
    E pur si muove -Galileo
     
    StevenUhl777
    Posts: 3281
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    RE: Ted On The Grow

    Thu Mar 03, 2005 12:59 pm

    Contrary to the majority of this board's opinion, Ted is doing well

    That can't be!. Ted sucks! United sucks! United is going bankrupt! United will go out of business tomorrow!

    Signed,
    Ignorant United haters of A-net
    And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
     
    Azul320
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    RE: Ted On The Grow

    Thu Mar 03, 2005 1:04 pm

    I flew TED into Denver in January and I was really impressed. Even better than Jetblue who I think they are trying to immitate. The crews were younger and extremely friendly and the meal service was better than I expected. Just the Direct TV from JB is better. Best of luck to UA!
    Excuse me, while I kiss the sky
     
    galapagapop
    Posts: 861
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    RE: Ted On The Grow

    Thu Mar 03, 2005 1:31 pm

    Quoting Azul320 (reply 39):
    I flew TED into Denver in January and I was really impressed. Even better than Jetblue who I think they are trying to immitate. The crews were younger and extremely friendly and the meal service was better than I expected.

    Lightning never stikes twice.....

    [Edited 2005-03-03 05:33:46]
     
    User avatar
    mariner
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    RE: Ted On The Grow

    Thu Mar 03, 2005 1:47 pm

    Oh, Steven...

    We don't all hate United, and we aren't all ignorant. There is a difference between bashing - or cheering - United and facing certain facts.

    Ted was devised by McKensey and Co at a certain time and a certain place when LCC's seemed indomitable and oil was $30 a barrel.

    I seriously doubt that McKinsey and Co would propose Starfish as a solution now, and some of us don't see the merit in the idea.

    On the simplest possible level: United needs yield - if only because of the price of oil - and Ted, deliberately by having a cap, limits yield.

    There are other levels, which others have defined, some of which I agree with, some of which I don't.

    I also think it is possible that Ted will not be allowed to fail - that because management committed to it when everyone told 'em it would never work, management is determined to prove that it will.

    But despite Mr. Donohoe's rah-rah, I still don't see what Ted brings to United that could be done by mainline.

    Ted has high load factors - but so does mainline. So - what is the point of Ted?

    cheers

    mariner

    [Edited 2005-03-03 05:48:31]
    aeternum nauta
     
    quickmover
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    RE: Ted On The Grow

    Thu Mar 03, 2005 2:06 pm

    " flew TED into Denver in January and I was really impressed. Even better than Jetblue who I think they are trying to imitate. The crews were younger and extremely friendly and the meal service was better than I expected. Just the Direct TV from JB is better. Best of luck to UA!"
    M

    No offense, but what's different about Ted compared to UAL coach? I flew them to MCO and the only difference I see is that it's an all coach mainline 320. You get IFE on both mainline and Ted. Yellow paint?? OK.
     
    aa777jr
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    RE: Ted On The Grow

    Thu Mar 03, 2005 2:26 pm

    It's this simple. If Ted was losing money, would UA be expanding it?

    Just like UA is knee deep in debt, yet they continue to expand. Your theory makes no sense.
    A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
     
    StevenUhl777
    Posts: 3281
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    RE: Ted On The Grow

    Thu Mar 03, 2005 2:41 pm

    Oh, Steven...

    We don't all hate United, and we aren't all ignorant. There is a difference between bashing - or cheering - United and facing certain facts.


    I know...I know...I was just venting out loud and the naysayers...UAL could post a $20B profit tomorrow, and most people on this board would still find a way to bash them and find fault and spread doom and gloom. I've spent a lot of time and effort explaining what I understood and explaining the meaning of certain results, but to no avail.

    I know full well UAL has seen better days and have big challenges ahead. They're not perfect, far from it. While certain facts are less than encouraging, the fact remains that UA has made progress and the banks have apparently enough confidence in them to renegotiate the DIP funding package and lower borrowing costs, and UAL is also hedging fuel again. There have been several performance records set, and the flying public hasn't lost faith in UA, either, based on the load factors...same for US. If UAL were that bad, wouldn't people have already abandoned them in droves? So, the people who UA needs the most seem to have enough confidence and want to see them work things out. What people fail to realize is that bankruptcy is complicated and expensive...transforming a company the size of United doesn't happen overnight or in 3 months or even 1 year. Some things are out of UA's control, like fuel, and that has stalled things. Had the revenue environment and fuel costs been a lot different, UA would have emerged months ago, if not a year or so ago.

    Sometimes I wonder why I bother anymore posting on this site.  Insane

    By the way, Mariner...did you move to New Zealand? Didn't you used to live in Santa Rosa or someplace close to there?
    And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
     
    MaverickM11
    Posts: 15247
    Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

    RE: Ted On The Grow

    Thu Mar 03, 2005 2:54 pm

    "Ignorant United haters of A-net"

    Let me be very clear. I love United. I HATE Ted.
    E pur si muove -Galileo
     
    MSYtristar
    Posts: 7543
    Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:52 am

    RE: Ted On The Grow

    Thu Mar 03, 2005 3:12 pm

    I for one wish Ted to be a success. I have never been one to hope for any airline entity (well, with the brief exception being DL right after the Pan Am deal) to go under. In UA's eyes, Ted obviously fills a niche. I've flown Ted once and I did not really find the experience to be "amazing" or anything, but it wasn't bad. I'd fly them again if I had to.

    What I don't understand is this. Why create an entirely new product? Many of the Ted routes had low First Class demand (upgrades excluded). Isn't that why UA has 319's/735's in the fleet with only eight First Class seats? If they only fill a few of those they are probably making decent revenue. I'm not a revenue management expert or anything of course, so I could be way off the mark.

    In any case, I wish Ted (and UA) the best of luck in these difficult and uncertain times, and I applaud them for continuing to serve my home airport adequately.
     
    jcs17
    Posts: 7376
    Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2001 11:13 am

    RE: Ted On The Grow

    Thu Mar 03, 2005 3:18 pm

    First of all, let me say that I like United Airlines. They have one of the best FFPs out there right now and their staff is second to none. In fact, I've switched all my flying to Star Alliance carriers because of United.

    The number one reason why Ted is a terrible idea is because it erodes brand loyalty from United's most frequent travelers. Contrary to what the 'brilliant' United management thinks, business people still fly to places like Las Vegas, Phoenix, Burbank, and Florida. If you think that the lack of First Class cabin doesn't matter, tell that to the 1K member who happens to be booked on a packed LAS-ORD redeye, let alone a flight from ORD-MCO. Instead, they get to fly on a cheesily painted A320 where they have to pay for their meal. But, hey, the business traveler doesn't mind because he got a low fare! Not so, most companies have travel policies that allow a person to travel on the lowest fare offered by a non-LCC. If UA was so concerned with yields to places like LAS, PHX, and MCO, there is a simple solution: Choose not to compete. Offer a higher fare and offer mainline service. You might lose the low-fare leisure traveler, but you are keeping brand loyalty among your most loyal customers who do not mind paying a premium price.

    The second concern is that UA has gone through a ton of money just to paint these aircraft, install new 'Ted' signage, etc. It simply isn't worth it for the premium airline that UA is.
    America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
     
    StevenUhl777
    Posts: 3281
    Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2001 11:02 am

    RE: Ted On The Grow

    Thu Mar 03, 2005 3:30 pm

    What I don't understand is this. Why create an entirely new product?

    - Try to recapture some lost business to other LCC's
    - Attempt to capitalize on successful leisure markets

    Ultimately, I believe TED was designed to replace UA's domestic mainline, and picked up where Shuttle left off, and learning lessons from Shuttle's failure. UA wanted to start TED off slow, to test market reaction, and if successful, they can continue gradually replacing mainline with TED.
    And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
     
    User avatar
    mariner
    Posts: 18168
    Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

    RE: Ted On The Grow

    Thu Mar 03, 2005 3:51 pm

    Steven:

    Yes, and yes. I used to live near Santa Rosa (Guerneville/Russian River) and have now moved to New Zealand.

    As to Ted, the original plan for Starfish was for it to start really big - over 100 aircraft on Day 1. Somewhere, I still have the original presentation which someone posted on the net.

    Your two notes above worry me - clearly, (a) with mainline l/f in excess of 80%, Ted wasn't really necessary, and (b) why the low yield leisure market?

    The answer, I guess, is market share - which may be the death of some airlines yet.

    cheers

    mariner
    aeternum nauta