LRGT
Posts: 675
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2004 12:29 pm

Continental Being Called "World's Largest Airline"

Fri Mar 04, 2005 3:01 am

While most of the articles have been corrected, why is Continental frequently being incorrectly referred to as the "World's Largest Airline" by reputable newspapers?

Has anyone else noticed these frequent mistakes?



Luke
Don't bring up the NW DC9's unless you have to!
 
akelley728
Posts: 1965
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 1999 12:35 pm

RE: Continental Being Called "World's Largest Airline"

Fri Mar 04, 2005 3:03 am

I believe the Continental has the most international destinations of any US carrier. No, they are not the "world's largest airline" by any means, but that could be the source of the mistake.
 
miaskies
Posts: 1235
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2004 3:08 am

RE: Continental Being Called "World's Largest Airline"

Fri Mar 04, 2005 3:11 am

I believe American Airlines is the world's largest airline or am I incorrect?
Nothing better than making love at 35K Feet!
 
KKMolokai
Posts: 741
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2000 2:06 am

RE: Continental Being Called "World's Largest Airline"

Fri Mar 04, 2005 4:42 am

Yes, American Airlines is the World's largest airline.
We are the people of American Airlines. And we know why you fly.
 
Chris
Posts: 247
Joined: Tue May 25, 1999 5:45 am

RE: Continental Being Called "World's Largest Airline"

Fri Mar 04, 2005 5:12 am

The term "Largest Airline" is somewhat confusing. Some would consider the largest airline would be the airline that flies to the most cities while others would base it on the number of aircraft in their fleet.

Chris
 
AirWillie6475
Posts: 2372
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 1:45 pm

RE: Continental Being Called "World's Largest Airline"

Fri Mar 04, 2005 5:28 am

http://www.airsafe.com/events/airlines/fleetage.htm

Continental is not the biggest airline. They do have a large int route structure but I'm not sure if they are the biggest int provider.
 
tinpusher007
Posts: 888
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:03 am

RE: Continental Being Called "World's Largest Airline"

Fri Mar 04, 2005 5:39 am

I have never read anything that referred to CO as the world's largest airline. Where are you reading such things?
"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
 
727LOVER
Posts: 6642
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 12:22 am

RE: Continental Being Called "World's Largest Airline"

Fri Mar 04, 2005 5:51 am

I see mistakes like this all the time. Just the other day, USA Today was claiming that B6 was operating 160 A320s.
Love Trumps Hate
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 13199
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: Continental Being Called "World's Largest Airline"

Fri Mar 04, 2005 5:52 am

CO serves more International Destinations than any other US carrier, possibly more International airports than any other carrier.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
bobnwa
Posts: 4463
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:10 am

RE: Continental Being Called "World's Largest Airline"

Fri Mar 04, 2005 6:05 am

Could you give us a few of the places that CO has been mentioned as the "world's largest airline." I do not recall ever seeing that reference to CO.
 
RDUCO
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 4:17 pm

RE: Continental Being Called "World's Largest Airline"

Fri Mar 04, 2005 6:06 am

Which papers? We do have the most intl cty svc with 120 by jun 05. However, with the offical measuring stick we only are 5th in US, and 7th in the world.

Quoting AirWillie6475 (reply 5):
They do have a large int route structure but I'm not sure if they are the biggest int provider.


CO does have more MX flts then any other carrier (us & mx). With the addition of Berlin, Bristol. Stockholm, Hamburg, and Belfast (summer 05) they will have more flts to Europe than any other airline. The only us airline flying to Africa (summer 05). The 3th largest carrier to Asia from the us. And, the rumor is that more intl cities are to be announce.
for the alliance
 
7e72004
Posts: 3440
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 12:15 am

RE: Continental Being Called "World's Largest Airline"

Fri Mar 04, 2005 6:06 am

the question comes down to the world's largest airline in terms of "what?" Passengers, cities, jets, destinations, etc.?
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
ViveLeYHZ
Posts: 188
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2004 5:10 pm

RE: Continental Being Called "World's Largest Airline"

Fri Mar 04, 2005 6:25 am

What does large in "largest airline in the world" stand for ? I guess one can ask the same about airports; ORD vs. ATL, movement vs pax.

Here is an example where CO is the largest airline in the world:

"CO is the largest airline in the world with non-stop flights between YHZ and EWR", which is true since they are the only ones flying this route non-stop.

But I would still like someone to shed some light on why AA is the largest airline in the world and UA is second ???

Cheers,
ViveLeYHZ
 
brons2
Posts: 2462
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2001 1:02 pm

RE: Continental Being Called "World's Largest Airline"

Fri Mar 04, 2005 6:34 am

Quoting RDUCO (reply 10):
With the addition of Berlin, Bristol. Stockholm, Hamburg, and Belfast (summer 05) they will have more flts to Europe than any other airline.


More 752's over the pond than any other airline!  Big grin
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
 
aaflt1871
Posts: 2166
Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2004 7:29 pm

RE: Continental Being Called "World's Largest Airline"

Fri Mar 04, 2005 6:37 am

Quoting ViveLeYHZ (reply 12):
But I would still like someone to shed some light on why AA is the largest airline in the world and UA is second ???


Total Passengers and Aircraft come to mind
Where did everybody go?
 
ramerinianair
Posts: 1452
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 6:03 am

RE: Continental Being Called "World's Largest Airline"

Fri Mar 04, 2005 6:39 am

Yea, I saw a news report on TV that had the 744 only carrying up to 400 people and the A380 at around 500-550.
It was such a joke . . . WB11 news in NY.
SR
W N = my Worst Nightmare!!!!!
 
RDUCO
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 4:17 pm

RE: Continental Being Called "World's Largest Airline"

Fri Mar 04, 2005 6:45 am

Quoting Brons2 (reply 13):
More 752's over the pond than any other airline!


we love those 752 (coming soon with winglets)
for the alliance
 
ozglobal
Posts: 2516
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 7:33 am

RE: Continental Being Called "World's Largest Airline"

Fri Mar 04, 2005 6:50 am

What's the comparison between AA and the AF/ KL mergco?
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
 
PHXinterrupted
Posts: 461
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2002 6:41 am

RE: Continental Being Called "World's Largest Airline"

Fri Mar 04, 2005 7:46 am

I have never read anything that referred to CO as the world's largest airline. Where are you reading such things?


Yeah, I've never read it either. Care to give an example?
Keepin' it real.
 
DfwRevolution
Posts: 8572
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:31 pm

RE: Continental Being Called "World's Largest Airline"

Fri Mar 04, 2005 8:46 am

Quoting OzGlobal (reply 17):
What's the comparison between AA and the AF/ KL mergco?


AA will remain larger, as will UA. I believe the AF/KLM will come in around 5th or 6th.

In terms of $$, then Southwest Airlines is the richest in the world: their liquitable credit is equivelent to Singapore Airlines plus an American Airlines, United Airlines, Delta, and Contiental thrown in for good measure  Wink
 
ozglobal
Posts: 2516
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 7:33 am

RE: Continental Being Called "World's Largest Airline"

Fri Mar 04, 2005 9:03 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (reply 19):
Quoting OzGlobal (reply 17):
What's the comparison between AA and the AF/ KL mergco?


AA will remain larger, as will UA. I believe the AF/KLM will come in around 5th or 6th.

In terms of $$, then Southwest Airlines is the richest in the world: their liquitable credit is equivelent to Singapore Airlines plus an American Airlines, United Airlines, Delta, and Contiental thrown in for good measure


Most of those US carriers (AA, UA and DL) are bankrupt. They can't be that 'rich'.

I heard AF/KL was neck and neck with AA in 'size'. Will have to find out how that is being measured. Can I have your source for the 5th/6th placing?
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
 
aaflt1871
Posts: 2166
Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2004 7:29 pm

RE: Continental Being Called "World's Largest Airline"

Fri Mar 04, 2005 9:11 am

Quoting OzGlobal (reply 20):
Most of those US carriers (AA, UA and DL) are bankrupt. They can't be that 'rich'


Really when did the above airlines go bankrupt? Last time I checked AA was still holding its head above water. And yes they can be that rich!!!



Quoting OzGlobal (reply 20):
I heard AF/KL was neck and neck with AA in 'size'.


You heard wrong.
Where did everybody go?
 
Blackhawk144
Posts: 769
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 6:20 am

RE: Continental Being Called "World's Largest Airline"

Fri Mar 04, 2005 10:11 am

Well, they are the largest airline, duh!

That is...largest passenger airline with a golden globe against a blue background and a grey bottom and light gold stripe  Wink

Anthony
Time is the best of all teachers. Unfortunately, it kills all of its students!
 
MGA
Posts: 717
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 4:58 am

RE: Continental Being Called "World's Largest Airline"

Fri Mar 04, 2005 10:28 am

Largest? nah... CO flies 737's everywhere... EWR-west coast 737's all day!!! this must be a joke!!! Their "BIG" planes they save for Europe!!  Silly
People must be talking about their 20 stop "direct" service in micronesia... Its like southwest going international...
Que viva el guaro, el dinero y los aviones!!!
 
DfwRevolution
Posts: 8572
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:31 pm

RE: Continental Being Called "World's Largest Airline"

Fri Mar 04, 2005 11:00 am

Quoting OzGlobal (reply 20):
Most of those US carriers (AA, UA and DL) are bankrupt. They can't be that 'rich'.


Actually none of them are bankrupt.  Wink

UA, AA, DL all have millions and billions of dollars in cash, but United Airlines has declared Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection.

This basically says: we still have money, but if we don't reorganize and turn-around now, then we will be destitute. Ch11 gives UA more leverage and breathing-room in which to continue opperations and negotiate with creditors and unions. A federally appointed judge monitors and approves/vetos major business decisions to ensure they aren't screwing people over.

AA and DL have not declared Ch. 11

Quoting OzGlobal (reply 20):

I heard AF/KL was neck and neck with AA in 'size'.


Certainly not in terms of fleet size or network capacity.

Quoting OzGlobal (reply 20):
Can I have your source for the 5th/6th placing?


Look at how many seats they fly, not a challenging stat to look up.
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 17078
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

RE: Continental Being Called "World's Largest Airline"

Fri Mar 04, 2005 11:03 am

AA will remain larger, as will UA. I believe the AF/KLM will come in around 5th or 6th.

That's in terms of fleet size. In terms of pax carried I believe AF/KLM is much closer to the top. Larger planes on average.


CO does have more MX flts then any other carrier (us & mx). With the addition of Berlin, Bristol. Stockholm, Hamburg, and Belfast (summer 05) they will have more flts to Europe than any other airline

What, more than Ryanair, BA, AF and the like? More than any US Carrier maybe.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
galapagapop
Posts: 861
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2005 2:15 pm

RE: Continental Being Called "World's Largest Airline"

Fri Mar 04, 2005 12:58 pm

Quoting Starlionblue (reply 25):
That's in terms of fleet size. In terms of pax carried I believe AF/KLM is much closer to the top. Larger planes on average.

Doesn't mean anything due to the fact larger planes due more intl ops and are rarely and especially in AF's case doing flts less 3 hours. Only Asian carriers like JL do that but even then its take longer to turn the plane around. AA is #1 by leaps and bounds if you tie in AMR corp as a whole. Although I feel they never get the repect they deserve despite being #1 and not being bk. Now is DL any closer on overtaking UA on #2 slot? If I recall 1-2 years ago they were VERY close to taking #2. But that I believe was before Song.
 
aaflt1871
Posts: 2166
Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2004 7:29 pm

RE: Continental Being Called "World's Largest Airline"

Fri Mar 04, 2005 2:35 pm

Quoting Galapagapop (reply 26):
Now is DL any closer on overtaking UA on #2 slot?


Ask and you shall recieve my friend

http://www.airliners.net/discussions...eneral_aviation/read.main/1987162/
Where did everybody go?
 
Meteorologist
Posts: 99
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 5:01 pm

RE: Continental Being Called "World's Largest Airline"

Fri Mar 04, 2005 5:40 pm

Doesn't any US carrier serve Cairo anymore? I know TW did before its demise.

[Edited 2005-03-04 09:42:10]
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24557
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Continental Being Called "World's Largest Airline"

Fri Mar 04, 2005 5:48 pm

Quoting Meteorologist (reply 28):
Doesn't any US carrier serve Cairo anymore? I know TW did before its demise.


American Airlines and Delta both ended service to Cairo in September 2001.

Delta ended it after September 11th, but AA announced the service (which was being operated by TWA LLC) was ending before September 11th.
a.
 
flyinTLow
Posts: 455
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 10:40 pm

RE: Continental Being Called "World's Largest Airline"

Fri Mar 04, 2005 6:52 pm

I dont think CO can be referred to the largest airline in the world by any means:

international routes: take a look at any european airline, and you will see they stand no chance.

fleet: AA, UA, DL, and I bet even NW have the edge on that!

passengers: Pretty sure the above beat them in that as well
- When dreams take flight, follow them -
 
galapagapop
Posts: 861
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2005 2:15 pm

RE: Continental Being Called "World's Largest Airline"

Fri Mar 04, 2005 9:25 pm

Quoting AAFLT1871 (reply 27):
Ask and you shall recieve my friend

Right after I had remembered that from 2 years ago there is the thread..... Crazy!
 
ozglobal
Posts: 2516
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 7:33 am

RE: Continental Being Called "World's Largest Airline"

Fri Mar 04, 2005 10:02 pm

Quoting Galapagapop (reply 26):
Quoting Starlionblue (reply 25):
That's in terms of fleet size. In terms of pax carried I believe AF/KLM is much closer to the top. Larger planes on average.

Doesn't mean anything


Explain again why the number of passengers carried isn't important...?
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
 
cornish
Posts: 7651
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:05 pm

RE: Continental Being Called "World's Largest Airline"

Fri Mar 04, 2005 10:23 pm

OK - some official IATA stats - reported to me -directly by the airlines themselves. They're for 03 unfortunately as I don't work there any more, but you can see who is the world's largest airlines in certain categories. Its what they have reported so don't flame me if you think they are wrong or feel certain things/ units/subsidiaries haven't been included. Have added in AF and KL seperate so you can get an idea of where a combined operation would sit.

Data is for all traffic (domestic and international combined).

Total Passengers
1. AA 88.8 mill
2. DL 84.1 mill
3. UA 66.5 mill
4. NW 52.8 mill
5. LH 44.5 mill

6. AF 43.5 mill
9. CO 38.5 mill
20. KL 18.7 mill

Total RPKs
1. AA 193,135 mill
2. UA 167,136 mill
3. DL 143,478 m
4. NW 110,199 m
5. BA 100,426 m

6. AF 99,122 m
8. CO 91,105 m
14. KL 56,555 m

Total RTKs
1. AA 20,279 m
2. UA 20,051 m
3. LH 17,200 m
4. DL 14,879 m
5. AF 13,987 m

12. KL 10,013 m
14. CO 9,188 m

So in terms of movement, that's the rankings for 2003. Which you consider is most important is up to you. However in terms of RTKs (when freight is included), note a combined AF/KL would move in to first position.

CO is most certainly not the largest airline in terms of traffic, that's for sure.
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
DAYflyer
Posts: 3546
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:35 pm

RE: Continental Being Called "World's Largest Airline"

Fri Mar 04, 2005 11:36 pm

Quoting Chris (reply 4):
The term "Largest Airline" is somewhat confusing. Some would consider the largest airline would be the airline that flies to the most cities while others would base it on the number of aircraft in their fleet.


Another criteria some use is number of passengers flown. But even here, CO is well short of many other airlines. I guess it just goes to show you that the press does a lousy job of fact checking.  redflag 
One Nation Under God
 
backfire
Posts: 3467
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:01 am

RE: Continental Being Called "World's Largest Airline"

Fri Mar 04, 2005 11:42 pm

Actually none of them are bankrupt.

UA, AA, DL all have millions and billions of dollars in cash, but United Airlines has declared Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection.



It doesn't matter whether you have 'millions and billions' of dollars. That's nothing to do with bankruptcy.

You are bankrupt if you do not have enough money to cover your total debts and liabilities should all your creditors demand their money.

The whole point of bankruptcy protection is that stops creditors from demanding their money - giving a troubled company a breathing space to reorganise.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 5153
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

RE: Continental Being Called "World's Largest Airline"

Sat Mar 05, 2005 2:59 am

"You are bankrupt if you do not have enough money to cover your total debts and liabilities should all your creditors demand their money."

Well... scratchchin ...actually that's sorta the definition of "insolvent". Generallly speaking, you are insolvent if you don't have enough money to pay your debts as they become due and payable. (In other words, a company isn't insolvent just because it does not have cash on hand to pay the bonds that become due ten years hence.)

While some dictionaries will equate "insolvent" with "bankrupt", most folks won't consider a company to be bankrupt until it actually tanks. And most folks will consider a company that has filed Chapter 11 to be "bankrupt" until it exits reorganization with a confirmed plan.

--Bill
 
Junction
Posts: 489
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2005 2:50 am

RE: Continental Being Called "World's Largest Airline"

Sat Mar 05, 2005 3:15 am

Every press release issued by Continental Airlines has the following quote attached to the end:

“Continental Airlines is the world's sixth-largest airline with more than 3,000 daily departures throughout the Americas, Europe and Asia. Continental serves 152 domestic and 122 international destinations -- more than any other airline in the world -- and nearly 400 additional points are served via SkyTeam alliance airlines.”

This can be found in any press release at Continental.com, and is most likely where the confusion comes from. Although CO is not the world's largest carrier in terms of fleet or number of passengers; they do land aircraft in their own livery at more points then any other airline in the world.
 
alphascan
Posts: 795
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:04 am

RE: Continental Being Called "World's Largest Airline"

Sat Mar 05, 2005 3:19 am

It amazes me that on this board nobody in the first 35 posts points out that the traditional way of measuring an airline's size is number of revenue passengers multiplied by distance flown (RPMs or RPKs).

Top 10 Airlines Jan/Nov 2004

AA 191 RPKs x 1,000,000,000 rounded down
UA 169
DL 161
AF/KL 112
NW 108
CO 107
WN 104
BA 97
LH 96
US 78

Source: Air Transport World January 2005
"To he who only has a hammer in his toolbelt, every problem looks like a nail."

Who is online