geoffm
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EU Compensation: U2 GLA-BRS Cancelled

Fri Mar 04, 2005 6:07 pm

Easyjet flight cancelled last night, GLA-BRS. My colleague got put up for the night by easyJet - but was he entitled to any other compensation under the new EU law? He'll now be missing around 2 hours work time (he's on his way back now - and the flight was delayed again!).

Thanks

Geoff M.
 
gkirk
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RE: EU Compensation: U2 GLA-BRS Cancelled

Fri Mar 04, 2005 6:09 pm

Probably cancelled due to weather I think.
The EU rules are stupid if the reason for a cancellation/delay is purely because of weather as there is nothing the airlines can do to prevent this.

To answer your question, I think that he could also recieve some money for the cancelation, although I've no idea how much. Maybe £500?
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: EU Compensation: U2 GLA-BRS Cancelled

Fri Mar 04, 2005 6:12 pm

Can someone provide a link where one can read about this "new law". I've heard bits and pieces on news, etc but haven't read much about it.

Thanks in advance!
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
 
Pe@rson
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RE: EU Compensation: U2 GLA-BRS Cancelled

Fri Mar 04, 2005 7:12 pm

I believe that it is absolutely just and reasonable that airlines should not have to pay any compensation or offer anything if the reason for the cancellation was beyond their control, for instance the weather or an ATC strike.

I also believe that an financial compensation should reflect the fare paid, for if it did not some people would get far more than what they paid and others not enough.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
JGPH1A
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RE: EU Compensation: U2 GLA-BRS Cancelled

Fri Mar 04, 2005 7:18 pm

Quoting Pe@rson (reply 4):
I also believe that an financial compensation should reflect the fare paid, for if it did not some people would get far more than what they paid and others not enough.


The compensation is not being paid for the fact that the flight was cancelled, but for the inconvenience suffered by the passengers as a result of the cancellation. Everyone is equally inconvenienced, so everyone gets the same compensation. The passenger paid the airline to fly them from point A to point B. The price agreed between the passenger and the airline is irrelevant, the contract was agreed and the price paid. The airline failed to deliver on that service, and so the customer is legally entitled to compensation. The best way for an airline to avoid paying compensation is to complete the flight.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
zonky
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RE: EU Compensation: U2 GLA-BRS Cancelled

Fri Mar 04, 2005 7:20 pm

"for instance the weather "

Weather is to an extent, is entirely in control of an airline/suppliers.

The presence of snow, for example, is largely predictable, and if falling in average quantites - the facilities should be present to deal with their effects.

Extreme weather is of course, another matter.


"Strikes"

Reasonably choice by mentioning ATC Strikes- they are regionalised monopolies as a rule- but Strike Action by others should not be exempt. Supplier/Sub-contracter selection is entirely within the scope of comptent management of an Airline. If they're selecting contracters with poor employee relations, then that is their decision they should live with.

[Edited 2005-03-04 11:27:49]
 
Pe@rson
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RE: EU Compensation: U2 GLA-BRS Cancelled

Fri Mar 04, 2005 7:32 pm

Quoting JGPH1A (reply 5):
Everyone is equally inconvenienced


If I were due in a meeting, where I could get £1 billion, it could be fairly assumed that the cancellation or severe delay of the flight could have more serious consequences for me than for someone who is retired and going to see Aunt Mable for two months.

Quoting JGPH1A (reply 5):
The passenger paid the airline to fly them from point A to point B.


Quoting JGPH1A (reply 5):
The airline failed to deliver on that service


You will find that in numerous airline contracts there are expressed terms to the effect that the airlines will get the offeree to the stated destination by ANY MEANS - not necessarily just flying. If the airline cannot get the offeree to the stated destination by whatever means, then that would indeed amount to a breach of contract for which the airline could be sued. Why? Because they airline would not have performed its side of the bargain.

It is clear, in my mind, that the consequences to passengers of a delayed or cancelled flight will be different, even greatly so, but this might not be quantifiable. Accordingly, it would be much easier to assume a general compensation amount, as has already been stated - based on the miles flown. However, it still seems unfair and unreasonable if Person X paid £10 for his flight and Person Y £100, yet they're both entitled to the same level of compensation. This would, of course, lead to complications and delays in issuing compensation, but it would nevertheless be the method which is most fair and reasonable.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
zonky
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RE: EU Compensation: U2 GLA-BRS Cancelled

Fri Mar 04, 2005 7:36 pm

Quoting Pe@rson (reply 7):
However, it still seems unfair and unreasonable if Person X paid £10 for his flight and Person Y £100, yet they're both entitled to the same level of compensation


Becuase they've both contracted the same service; price paid/service provider is immaterial. Compensation is due for failing to furfill the contract obligations (delivery from A to B).

It's no different to other Sales of good services. I can buy a £100 fridge or a £600 bells and whistles fridge. My expectation, and legal rights, are that the fridge is fit for the purpose; chilling.

[Edited 2005-03-04 11:38:08]
 
JGPH1A
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RE: EU Compensation: U2 GLA-BRS Cancelled

Fri Mar 04, 2005 7:37 pm

Quoting Pe@rson (reply 7):
If I were due in a meeting, where I could get £1 billion, it could be fairly assumed that the cancellation or severe delay of the flight could have more serious consequences for me than for someone who is retired and going to see Aunt Mable for two months.


True - so the legislation attempts to find a happy medium, in order to simplify the system. I am sure that 156 x EUR300.00 works out cheaper for the airline than 155 x a tenner + 1 x a million quid, right ?

Quoting Pe@rson (reply 7):
You will find that in numerous airline contracts there are expressed terms to the effect that the airlines will get the offeree to the stated destination by ANY MEANS - not necessarily just flying.


This is why you are only entitled to compensation if the airline fails to get you to your agreed arrival point within 5 hours of the original scheduled arrival time (I think it is). So if the airline in the case of the GLA-BRS example was able to get hold of a reasonably zippy bus, they might have managed it.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
pilot kaz
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RE: EU Compensation: U2 GLA-BRS Cancelled

Fri Mar 04, 2005 7:41 pm

Wait a minuet, your friend gets cancelled on a flight due to weather which is out of the airlines control? He was put up for a night by easyjet? And because he is missing 2 hours of work he wants compensation? Am I reading this right?? Are you serious?
-
 
mrniji
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RE: EU Compensation: U2 GLA-BRS Cancelled

Fri Mar 04, 2005 7:56 pm

Quoting Pe@rson (reply 7):
Aunt Mable


 Big grin Haha! Aunt Mable..! Is your aunt called like this??

Quoting Pilot kaz (reply 10):
And because he is missing 2 hours of work he wants compensation? Am I reading this right?? Are you serious?


Yeah, he is serious and he is right.. that are the rules.. - and I know how shitty it can be to be two hours late..  Wink
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
A340600
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RE: EU Compensation: U2 GLA-BRS Cancelled

Fri Mar 04, 2005 8:17 pm

This crap new EU law will send LCC carriers prices rising at this rate. They end up paying more than the people paid for the ticket, for delays, no matter how they happened. It's good for passengers, but very bad news for airlines. EasyJet, especially are very displeased by this law,

Sam
Despite the name I am a Boeing man through and through!
 
zonky
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RE: EU Compensation: U2 GLA-BRS Cancelled

Fri Mar 04, 2005 8:34 pm

Quoting A340600 (reply 12):
EasyJet, especially are very displeased by this law


I'd be rather displeased if on a shorthop Easyjet flight i was delayed over two hours. I'm unsure why i'm supposed to be sorry for the LCC's?
 
geoffm
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RE: EU Compensation: U2 GLA-BRS Cancelled

Fri Mar 04, 2005 11:34 pm

Kaz, yes. Read the links kindly provided by Airsicknessbag.

He's back now. This is what happened. Yes the flight was cancelled due to the weather... not the weather in the UK, but the weather in southern Europe somewhere (he said Vienna, but I didn't think easyJet flew there?). So neither GLA nor BRS were affected by the weather, which is what is relevant from the pax point of view.

So he was offered either bed and breakfast in the Horrorday Inn (which was actually fairly good apparently) with a flight in the morning; or to spent 6-7 hours on a 6-seater minibus. The few that opted for the minibus (called a "coach") were apparently quite horrified when they saw it.

In terms of the compensation, easyJet did do everything correctly under the EU law, so I'm quite happy with that. Note that my question was genuine and wasn't querying easyJet's actions in any bad way.

Geoff M.
 
geoffm
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RE: EU Compensation: U2 GLA-BRS Cancelled

Fri Mar 04, 2005 11:35 pm

Oh, and this morning's delay was due to sickness in ATC at Bristol. Though why other planes took off and landed before and after is a little puzzling.

Geoff M.
 
cornish
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RE: EU Compensation: U2 GLA-BRS Cancelled

Fri Mar 04, 2005 11:46 pm

While I agree with the principle of compensation, and think that this may remove some practices that have gone on too long by airlines, I do understand why the airlines feel somewhat annoyed that they are held responsible when there may be issues that are the fault of others.

Delays can be the fault of airports or ATC providers on occasion. If an airport is closed because of snow, is it not down to the airports to provide facilities that deal with the clearing of this, not the airlines.

Not all airlines have spare back up aircraft they can provide in the event of an aircraft being stranded somewhere else, and the cost of having ones, would be a high extra cost.

Sadly I think it will result in higher prices in the future as costs will inevitably get passed on to the consumer.
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
zonky
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RE: EU Compensation: U2 GLA-BRS Cancelled

Fri Mar 04, 2005 11:59 pm

Quoting Cornish (reply 16):
Delays can be the fault of airports


Which are suppliers and/or sub-contractors of the airlines. Airport selection is within their control.
 
Pe@rson
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RE: EU Compensation: U2 GLA-BRS Cancelled

Sat Mar 05, 2005 12:05 am

Quoting Zonky (reply 17):
Which are suppliers and/or sub-contractors of the airlines. Airport selection is within their control.


So you are saying that airlines should be absolutely aware of precisely what every airport served, where the airports are "suppliers and/or sub-contractors," can do in every situation, because they can choose which airports to serve ('airport selection')? It would seem that you are trying to make everything the fault of the airline, including things about which airlines would have no or very little control, such as ATC strikes.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
zonky
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RE: EU Compensation: U2 GLA-BRS Cancelled

Sat Mar 05, 2005 12:07 am

Quoting Pe@rson (reply 18):
So you are saying that airlines should be absolutely aware of precisely what every airport served, where the airports are "suppliers and/or sub-contractors," can do in every situation, because they can choose which airports to serve ('airport selection')?


What an odd idea, that a company run in a professional manner should be responsible for selecting comptent suppliers.
 
cornish
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RE: EU Compensation: U2 GLA-BRS Cancelled

Sat Mar 05, 2005 12:09 am

Quoting Zonky (reply 17):
Which are suppliers and/or sub-contractors of the airlines. Airport selection is within their control.


So why are the airports not liable to pay on occasion then?

Quoting Pe@rson (reply 18):
It would seem that you are trying to make everything the fault of the airline, including things about which airlines would have no or very little control, such as ATC strikes.


Exactly - couldn't agree more Mr. P.
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
1MillionFlyer
Posts: 1937
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RE: EU Compensation: U2 GLA-BRS Cancelled

Sat Mar 05, 2005 12:10 am

Zonky you are extremely matter of fact for a rather complex industry.

The airline cannot control the weather, "they knew it was going to snow" this is ridiculous. Flying is not a game nor is it the same as driving your car across town or buying a home appliance.

In the case of this chap, I agree he should have had compensation as this was an equipment not available rather than weather on the route.

We all take for granted due to technology and the skill of pilots these days that it is all just ho-hum and "so what". Trust me, flying is still about unknowns, they are just mitigated much better these days. Weather and aiport managment cannot be managed in the FMS on the flight deck!

I can only hope you realize that the airline is there to get you SAFELY from point A to point B and with a reasonable degree of care to live up to the contract of carriage. As we say here in the US "Sh*t happens".

I used to think the US was a great place to be a lawyer/solicitor, I guess the EU is the place to be now.
Golf Foxtrot you are cleared for departure
 
Pe@rson
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RE: EU Compensation: U2 GLA-BRS Cancelled

Sat Mar 05, 2005 12:11 am

LOL. But it would be impossible to know how Supplier A would respond in EVERY AND ANY given situation. The more likely situations, yes, but not EVERY, as suggested by you.

'Oh dear, Joe - there's a drop of paint on the floor of the terminal.'

'You know the drill - send for the police and ambulance: we have a problem.'

Dear me.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
acefreighter
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RE: EU Compensation: U2 GLA-BRS Cancelled

Sat Mar 05, 2005 12:17 am

Zonky

I would love to live on the same planet as you - where all possible problems can be forseen and contracts put in place to ensure they are all mitigated for
on every occasion. I should think it would be a very relaxing place. But it would either not have any airlines as they have gone bust - or the airfares would be so high that nobody would travel anywhere.
 
cornish
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RE: EU Compensation: U2 GLA-BRS Cancelled

Sat Mar 05, 2005 12:20 am

what may start happening, should it start costing the airlines large amounts of money, is that we could have lots of long and complex court cases where airlines try to get money out of the airports, ATC services and other suppliers, when they feel they are to blame for any delays.

Could lead to chaos - only guarantee is that the lawyers get even richer.....
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
zonky
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RE: EU Compensation: U2 GLA-BRS Cancelled

Sat Mar 05, 2005 12:21 am

Quoting Cornish (reply 20):
So why are the airports not liable to pay on occasion then?


The Ticketted pax has no contract with the airport. They are a sub-contracter of the Airline. The nature of that contractual arrangement is up to the Airline/Airport.

To claim the Airline is absolved from the competence of their sub-contractors is preposterous.

Quoting 1MillionFlyer (reply 21):
Zonky you are extremely matter of fact for a rather complex industry.


It's quite a simple industry. It's involved in the transportation of fare paying people. It is obligated through various acts of law to meet its contractual obligations. (i.e, getting people from A to B).

The only thing ununusal about it is those who are romantically attached to airlines as aviation enthusiants and are willing



Quoting Cornish (reply 20):
Quoting Pe@rson (reply 18):
It would seem that you are trying to make everything the fault of the airline, including things about which airlines would have no or very little control, such as ATC strikes.


Exactly - couldn't agree more Mr. P.


Then look above when ATC is accepted as a regionalised monopoly.

Quoting 1MillionFlyer (reply 21):
The airline cannot control the weather, "they knew it was going to snow" this is ridiculous.


 Yeah sure Look above- copign with average weather is one matter- small ammounts of snow, average for the area should be copeable- and services should be in place to cope with it. Closing simply at the first sign of snow is unacceptable. Extreme weather is another matter entirely.
 
Pe@rson
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RE: EU Compensation: U2 GLA-BRS Cancelled

Sat Mar 05, 2005 12:23 am

Quoting Cornish (reply 24):
only guarantee is that the lawyers get even richer.....


Oi - I'll be a lawyer soon and I'm not that bad! In fact, money is reason 3 or 4 for why I am doing it.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
zonky
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RE: EU Compensation: U2 GLA-BRS Cancelled

Sat Mar 05, 2005 12:23 am

Quoting Pe@rson (reply 22):
LOL. But it would be impossible to know how Supplier A would respond in EVERY AND ANY given situation.


If Airline A is quite prepared to take the cheapest bidder with scant regard to deliverability of services by Supplier B, in a bid to maximise profitability, then yes, it's high time and extremely welcome for this EU compensation guarantees such that Airline A can't take Pax C's money and fail to deliver without penalty.
 
cornish
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RE: EU Compensation: U2 GLA-BRS Cancelled

Sat Mar 05, 2005 12:25 am

Quoting Zonky (reply 25):
copign with average weather is one matter- small ammounts of snow, average for the area should be copeable- and services should be in place to cope with it. Closing simply at the first sign of snow is unacceptable.


and that's the airlines' fault ???
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
globetrekker
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RE: EU Compensation: U2 GLA-BRS Cancelled

Sat Mar 05, 2005 12:26 am

A KLM colleague (ground staff) of mine based in AMS told me about a situation.
A group of pax was traveling AMS-MSP and the flight was oversold. They could not get any volunteers, so they denied boarding to a family of four.

They could chose from €800,- in travel vouchers per person or €600,- in cash. They chose cash. Considering that the ticket that was purchased in the USA cost $450,-, they were very happy campers! cheerful 
And if you look at the coversion rate between € and $............

Globe Trekker



[Edited 2005-03-04 16:28:56]
The World Is A Book And Those Who Do Not Travel Read Only A Page
 
cornish
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RE: EU Compensation: U2 GLA-BRS Cancelled

Sat Mar 05, 2005 12:27 am

Quoting Pe@rson (reply 26):
Oi - I'll be a lawyer soon and I'm not that bad! In fact, money is reason 3 or 4 for why I am doing it.


Ooops......  Wink
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
zonky
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RE: EU Compensation: U2 GLA-BRS Cancelled

Sat Mar 05, 2005 12:27 am

Quoting Cornish (reply 28):
d that's the airlines' fault ???


Airport selection is quite within the scope of the Airlines. Clearly, the professionalism and ability of an airport operating company to cope with average weather for the locality forms part of this assessment of suitability.

[Edited 2005-03-04 16:28:26]
 
1MillionFlyer
Posts: 1937
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RE: EU Compensation: U2 GLA-BRS Cancelled

Sat Mar 05, 2005 12:28 am

Zonky,

I am a business person and ex Cheif Financial Officer for a large automobile supplier, trust me I know debits and credits and business, but as a licenced pilot, I am telling you, the mechanics of the airline business are very very simple, the execution is not.

Unless you can control:
1. The laws of Physics
2. The law of gravity
3. The weather
4. Attitudes and behavior of 1000's of people

try flying a plane to minimums at night on an ILS with a 30 knot crosswind then come back and tell me it is all very "simple".

There is no reasoning with someone who has a strong opinion, you are entitled to it.

Cheers
Golf Foxtrot you are cleared for departure
 
cornish
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RE: EU Compensation: U2 GLA-BRS Cancelled

Sat Mar 05, 2005 12:28 am

Quoting Zonky (reply 31):
Airport selection is quite within the scope of the Airlines. Clearly, the professionalism and ability to cope with average weather for the locality forms part of this assessment of suitability.


So should LHR close down because of bad weather, its the airlines fault for not flying to STN instead ?? That's a bizarre arguement.

You don't work for an airport do you by any chance ?
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
AA7573E
Posts: 468
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RE: EU Compensation: U2 GLA-BRS Cancelled

Sat Mar 05, 2005 12:29 am

This new legislation highlights the overall disfunctional nature of the EU in general, and more specifically their aviation authorities. I am by no means saying that we have it down to a science over here, but this legislation is poorly thought out, and an attempt by the Brussels EU regime to make some sort of statement before control passes to the UK.

The mere fact that the legislation asserts that weather is a controllable circumstance, and that the predictability of weather makes the airlines responsible is absurd.

Way to go EU, and way to go Brussels. Well done.
See you up front!
 
1MillionFlyer
Posts: 1937
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RE: EU Compensation: U2 GLA-BRS Cancelled

Sat Mar 05, 2005 12:30 am

Quoting 1MillionFlyer (reply 32):
Airport selection is quite within the scope of the Airlines. Clearly, the professionalism and ability of an airport operating company to cope with average weather for the locality forms part of this assessment of suitability



Hmmm this airport does not meet our standards, but our passengers want to go to the city that airport serves....let's Build our own airport to ensure quality... it only costs 500 Million Quid.

Unbelievable!
Golf Foxtrot you are cleared for departure
 
zonky
Posts: 417
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RE: EU Compensation: U2 GLA-BRS Cancelled

Sat Mar 05, 2005 12:31 am

1MillionFlyer,

this discussion is not about flying an airplane; rather the structure of a business to deliver purchased services to consumers.

I am merely pointing out that if an Airline cuts costs by selecting partners incapable of delivering services in a timely manner, then that is entirely their choice; it is not absolution from responsibility.
 
zonky
Posts: 417
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RE: EU Compensation: U2 GLA-BRS Cancelled

Sat Mar 05, 2005 12:34 am

Quoting Cornish (reply 33):
So should LHR close down because of bad weather, its the airlines fault for not flying to STN instead ?? That's a bizarre arguement.


I have never made this argument. Try reading the thread again.
 
cornish
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RE: EU Compensation: U2 GLA-BRS Cancelled

Sat Mar 05, 2005 12:36 am

Quoting Zonky (reply 36):
I am merely pointing out that if an Airline cuts costs by selecting partners incapable of delivering services in a timely manner, then that is entirely their choice; it is not absolution from responsibility


Then by your very argument, if a passenger chooses an airline "incapable of delivering services in a timely manner" when there was an alternative choice, then that is entirely their choice too. Ridiculous of course, but it is the same as an airline making a choice over where to fly, who supplies them etc. so does that mean the buck stops with the passenger or making that choice then ?
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
zonky
Posts: 417
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RE: EU Compensation: U2 GLA-BRS Cancelled

Sat Mar 05, 2005 12:38 am

Quoting 1MillionFlyer (reply 35):
Hmmm this airport does not meet our standards, but our passengers want to go to the city that airport serves....let's Build our own airport to ensure quality... it only costs 500 Million Quid.

Unbelievable!


Don't be tedious. The compensation structure will quite clearly lead Airlines to renegotiate to a position where Airport companies assume risk/penalty if they fail to deliver.

if on the other hand, that is a highly congested airport where demand favours the airport; then the Airline needs to consider if it can wear the potential expenses. No one is asking the airlines to retain unprofitable routes.

A line has been drawn however about their previous ability to fuck over consumers without redress.
 
1MillionFlyer
Posts: 1937
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RE: EU Compensation: U2 GLA-BRS Cancelled

Sat Mar 05, 2005 12:40 am

Quoting Zonky (reply 36):
this discussion is not about flying an airplane; rather the structure of a business to deliver purchased services to consumers.

I am merely pointing out that if an Airline cuts costs by selecting partners incapable of delivering services in a timely manner, then that is entirely their choice; it is not absolution from responsibility.



buy definition "aviaion" involves flying airplanes, all the suppliers you are mentioning support the flying of airplanes, the purchased service is transportation via "airplane" in the "air".

Yes the airline can control many aspects of their service, customer service, airport gate facilities, catering, interiors, seat pitch, and to some degree which airport for a city they will serve, if that city has multiple airports. The airlines cannot control ATC delays, crappy airport services and the weather.
Golf Foxtrot you are cleared for departure
 
Pe@rson
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RE: EU Compensation: U2 GLA-BRS Cancelled

Sat Mar 05, 2005 12:45 am

Quoting Zonky (reply 36):
I am merely pointing out that if an Airline cuts costs by selecting partners incapable of delivering services in a timely manner, then that is entirely their choice; it is not absolution from responsibility.


For expected, predictable and irregular occurences, yes. But to assume the same for things which might occur extremely irregularly is absurd, as it would be impossible and thus unrealistic to assume that everything will always be thought of, considered and thus planned for.

Imagine this: Place A had never dropped below 20 degrees C in 100 years and never had more than 1mm of rain in that period. It had never witnessed snow. Yet, one day, a major snow storm covered the ground in minutes, meaning that the aircraft could not get out or in and so the airlines had to pay compensation to the inconvenienced passengers as a result of cancelled or sufficiently delayed flights. The snow to this extent could not reasonably have been expected - it had not snowed in 100 years - so would it be the responsibility of the airline in this instance to have ensured that the airport could deliver its end of the bargain in a "timely manner"? Seems extremely unfair and unreasonable to me.

There has to be a point at which the airline ceases to be reponsible and thus unaccountable.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
zonky
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RE: EU Compensation: U2 GLA-BRS Cancelled

Sat Mar 05, 2005 12:45 am

Quoting 1MillionFlyer (reply 40):
The airlines cannot control ATC delays, crappy airport services and the weather.


As i've said before, ATC tends to be regionalised monopolies (well.. in the UK i suppose VS/BA should be held accountable....?), thus i excluded them.

If the weather is too bad to fly, that is one matter. Otoh, if the airport infrastructure cannot cope with typical local weather (i.e snow clearance capcity) in which it woudl otherwise be safe to fly, then that is quite anotehr matter.

Selection of Airport services are within the control of the Airline.
 
zonky
Posts: 417
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 8:31 pm

RE: EU Compensation: U2 GLA-BRS Cancelled

Sat Mar 05, 2005 12:47 am

Quoting Pe@rson (reply 41):
Imagine this: Place A had never dropped below 20 degrees


Wow. If only i'd mentioned such concepts as 'average weather' and ooh i dunno 'extreme weather' Oh... wait... I did.
 
Pe@rson
Posts: 16004
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:29 pm

RE: EU Compensation: U2 GLA-BRS Cancelled

Sat Mar 05, 2005 12:50 am

LOL. It's no wonder you have a RR of 0: you are very arrogant.

And as I have said: it is reasonable and fair for EXPECTED and PREDICTABLE weather. You have not replied adequately concerning more irregular, and thus less predictable, weather.

At what point is the airline not responsible and thus unaccountable?

[Edited 2005-03-04 16:58:59]
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
1MillionFlyer
Posts: 1937
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 8:55 am

RE: EU Compensation: U2 GLA-BRS Cancelled

Sat Mar 05, 2005 1:04 am

Thank you Pe@rson I was beginning to think I had left planet earth.
Golf Foxtrot you are cleared for departure
 
cornish
Posts: 7651
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:05 pm

RE: EU Compensation: U2 GLA-BRS Cancelled

Sat Mar 05, 2005 1:11 am

Quoting 1MillionFlyer (reply 45):
I was beginning to think I had left planet earth.


Well if you had, it was obviously the airlines' fault for flying you there  Wink
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
Pe@rson
Posts: 16004
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:29 pm

RE: EU Compensation: U2 GLA-BRS Cancelled

Sat Mar 05, 2005 1:13 am

Quoting 1MillionFlyer (reply 45):
Thank you Pe@rson I was beginning to think I had left planet earth.


 Smile

I can see it now: a consumer complains that there's a drop of paint on the terminal floor. This would, of course, be expected and predicted by Zonky, in which case the airline, having selected an airport (a supplier) itself, would be fully responsible.  Wink There is clearly a point at which the airline is not responsible, which is certainly concerned with foreseeability and whether the 'reasonable person' (or 'reasonable business,' in this instance) could have reasonably foreseen the occurrence.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
cornish
Posts: 7651
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:05 pm

RE: EU Compensation: U2 GLA-BRS Cancelled

Sat Mar 05, 2005 1:18 am

Quoting Pe@rson (reply 47):
in which case the airline, having selected an airport (a supplier) itself, would be fully responsible. There is clearly a point at which the airline is not responsible, which is certainly concerned with foreseeability and whether the 'reasonable person' (or 'reasonable business,' in this instance) could have reasonably foreseen the occurrence.


Now you're just trying to do that lawyer-speak thing where you confuse us all  Wink
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
Pe@rson
Posts: 16004
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:29 pm

RE: EU Compensation: U2 GLA-BRS Cancelled

Sat Mar 05, 2005 1:19 am

It's all those pasties I eat!  Wink
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."

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