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ramprat74
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UA Vs EA In ATL

Sat Mar 05, 2005 3:15 pm

It seems UA had a big presence in ATL before deregulation. DL was always the largest. Both DL and EA added many flights after 1978. If UA didn't pull out after deregulation, and added flights alongside DL and EA. Would ATL have been a three hub airport like DEN? If EA had more competition for the second largest airline at ATL. Do you think they would moved their whole operation down to MIA?

It would of been a much needed Southeast hub that United always needed for their system.


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UA must of operated a good amount of flights into ATL. You can see two large fuel tanks in the background.


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kkfla737
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RE: UA Vs EA In ATL

Sat Mar 05, 2005 7:09 pm

Quoting RampRat74 (reply 0):
DL was always the largest



This isn't true. in 1977, right before deregulation Eastern's hub in Atlanta was in terms of daily departures the largest hub in the world. IRC Eastern was pretty much larger in Atlanta than Delta in terms of destinations served nonstop until the mid 1980s.
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: UA Vs EA In ATL

Sat Mar 05, 2005 7:10 pm

Quoting RampRat74 (reply 0):
DL was always the largest

One slight correction: EA for several years was larger than DL, not by very much but still.
Now, had UA tried to keep their hub at ATL, they would likely be gone by now. Every airline that has attempted a hub or focus city in ATL in competition with DL, except Air Tran, has bitten the dust (Eastern, TWA(mini-hub in the Nineties), Air Atlanta, Air South, Vanguard, and in a way Valujet, too, as not much of them is left in FL).
 
727LOVER
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RE: UA Vs EA In ATL

Sat Mar 05, 2005 10:33 pm

My memory is the same as the other posters, in the 70s EA had more ATL flight than DL. Don't forget, Southern had a large presence at ATL also. I don't think UA had too large of an operation in ATL.

Hey, but remember, after EA went bust, UA had 53 gates in ATL available...they missed a great opp there.....to this day UA is relatively weak in the southeast.

Who is the t3rd carrier at DEN? If you are saying UA, CO, and old Frontier, there were never 3 hubs at once.
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srbmod
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RE: UA Vs EA In ATL

Sun Mar 06, 2005 12:35 am

Quoting RampRat74 (reply 0):

UA must of operated a good amount of flights into ATL. You can see two large fuel tanks in the background.



Those are tanks owned by the City of Atlanta, not the airlines. On several occassions in the past, the airport put the logos of the airlines that served ATL on the tanks of the fuel farms at the airport. Another example:

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SPREE34
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RE: UA Vs EA In ATL

Sun Mar 06, 2005 1:12 am

727LOVER..."Who is the t3rd carrier at DEN? If you are saying UA, CO, and old Frontier, there were never 3 hubs at once."

In the 70s and 80s there were 3 hubs at DEN. (Stapleton) United, Continental, and the original Frontier.
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
 
milesrich
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RE: UA Vs EA In ATL

Sun Mar 06, 2005 1:35 am

UA moved into Atlanta with "minihub" with their acquisition of Capital on July 1, 1961. They had flights to MOB, MSY, BHM, CLT, RDU, PBI, MIA, TPA, ORH, PHF, GSO, AVL, NYC, PHL, DCA, CLE, PIT, BUF, ROC, and CRW, operating upwards of 50 departures per day. Transitioning from Viscounts, DC-6's and Caravelles, to 727's and 737's, they maintained their presence until deregulation, when in 1980 or 1981, they actually completely pulled out of ATL. They only stayed away for a year or two and when the new midfield terminal opened they returned but only with flights to and from their hubs at DEN, ORD, IAD, and SFO, although the flights to SFO and IAD were added later. For a while in the late 80's, they had add on flights to SAV, and operated a flight to MIA after they acquired some of Pan Am's South American routes.
 
Tan Flyr
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RE: UA Vs EA In ATL

Sun Mar 06, 2005 1:42 pm

I must be losing my mind because I sure don't recall a UA "hub of any kind at ATL. Now, I'll admit the time frame I am thinking of is mostly from early 70's thru the initial days of deregulation (late 78-thru 1979).


Living at FWA most of that time frame, I distinctly remember UA 269 as the early am departure to CLE, with continuing service to ATL and JAX. Except for the CLE/ATL service and this single r/t to JAX as mandated by the CAB, I just don't recall all these flights several of you mention. Even flyingthru ATL a dozen times in those years I don't remember more than a minor presence for UA at ATL. Now UA did serve some of those with service that went thru the CLE hub as I recall.

Now I do recall UA dropped that JAX flight from ATL as fast as they could in early 79 or so and did start service to ORD from ATL soon thereafter.

I guess I'll have to go out to the garage tomorrow and see if I can dig out some old UA timetables from the mid-late 70's.
 
DCA-ROCguy
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RE: UA Vs EA In ATL

Sun Mar 06, 2005 1:58 pm

You asked for it.... Smile

I have a United timetable for June 13, 1975 that shows the following:

Atlanta: 30 daily departures:
CAK 2x
ASH 1x
BUF 2x
CRW 2x
CLE 4x incl 1 DC-10
JAX 1x
MIA 2x
FLL 1x
LGA 1x
ORF 3x
PIT 5x
ROC 1x
TPA 2x incl 1 DC-10
DCA 1x
PBI 2x

Same timetable also shows CLE-ORD 7x including 2 747 & 1 DC-10; PIT-ORD 6x includes 1 daily 747 and 1 daily DC-10. Those were the days.  Smile

Jim
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ckfred
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RE: UA Vs EA In ATL

Sun Mar 06, 2005 2:28 pm

Also don't forget that Private Jet tried to make ATL a hub in 1994, when it switched from a charter-only carrier to a scheduled-service carrier. I think Private Jet went under when ValuJet started to fly the same routes at lower fares.
 
bohica
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RE: UA Vs EA In ATL

Sun Mar 06, 2005 2:40 pm

I read somewhere recently that after deregulation UA moved their ATL operation to MEM. Does anyone know anything about that?
 
727LOVER
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RE: UA Vs EA In ATL

Sun Mar 06, 2005 2:56 pm

And let's not forget AIR ATLANTA...where did they fly to?

I thought CO didn't have a big DEN operation until after they bought Frontier's assets. I could be wrong.
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ramprat74
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RE: UA Vs EA In ATL

Sun Mar 06, 2005 4:09 pm

We use to ground handle Private Jet in DFW. They changed their name to National, then went under.
 
Tan Flyr
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RE: UA Vs EA In ATL

Sun Mar 06, 2005 11:45 pm

Ok..I stand corrected.Thanks....guess I just did not recall it.!
 
kkfla737
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RE: UA Vs EA In ATL

Mon Mar 07, 2005 7:13 am

I have an EA timetable dated Jan 11, 1977 which states that EA's Atlanta hub was the largest airline hub in the world at the time.
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: UA Vs EA In ATL

Mon Mar 07, 2005 7:45 am

Quoting Kkfla737 (reply 14):
I have an EA timetable dated Jan 11, 1977 which states that EA's Atlanta hub was the largest airline hub in the world at the time.

Funny to think that ATL still is the world's largest single-airline hub, albeit now thanks to Eastern's main competitor.
 
srbmod
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RE: UA Vs EA In ATL

Mon Mar 07, 2005 7:53 am

Quoting 727LOVER (reply 11):
And let's not forget AIR ATLANTA...where did they fly to?


Routes included ATL-MEM, ATL-PHL, ATL-MIA, ATL-JFK, ATL-DTW, ATL-RSW, ATL-MCO, MCO-TPA, TPA-RSW, ATL-TPA, JFK-PHL, ATL-LWB, JFK-LWB. The last route map also showed an ATL-MSY route, but the airline went under before the route was started.
 
ARCJET
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RE: UA Vs EA In ATL

Mon Mar 07, 2005 7:55 am

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This is the United Route Map from 1969, 8 years after United absorbed Capital Airlines. Prior to 1961, United had no routes in the Southeast USA. The Atlanta operation ended in 1979 and United returned to Atlanta in 1984 with nonstops to Chicago and Denver.
Charleston, SC
 
kkfla737
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RE: UA Vs EA In ATL

Mon Mar 07, 2005 9:11 am

Keep in mind that Delta was a much smaller airline than Eastern until the mid 1980s, so it's logical that EAs main hub would be larger than DLs main hub. Looking at UA and AA timetables from the early 80s, I am quite sure that the two largest airline hubs in the USA were actually EA @ ATL and DL @ ATL. AA @ DFW was probably third, and then UA @ ORD. Keep in mind that about 6 airlines had smaller hubs at ORD following de-regulation so there were some cities for example that Republic or TWA flew to from Chicago which UA did not.
 
Tom in NO
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RE: UA Vs EA In ATL

Mon Mar 07, 2005 9:40 am

Air Atlanta had an office at MSY. I recall doing an inventory of what they left behind after they went belly up.

Funny story about that project: in the process of the inventory, we came across a nose wheel tire they'd stashed in the office. We actually were considering rolling it down the ticket lobby down to, I believe, CO, and up to their ticket counter proclaiming, "are you missing this yet?". We chickened out, though.

Somewhere around the house, I've got an Air Atlanta luggage tray/box.

Tom at MSY
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September11
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RE: UA Vs EA In ATL

Mon Mar 07, 2005 12:14 pm

it is interesting that UA used to operate day long flights out of ATL to various destinations.

Maybe Eastern pushed United out of ATL market.

ATL is true hub. Too bad for United.
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gr8slvrflt
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RE: UA Vs EA In ATL

Tue Mar 08, 2005 5:09 am

When UA discontinued all ATL service ('79 to '85) they still maintained their Atlanta reservations center. During that period, those employees had to drive to BHM to non-rev on UA! The center is now a Galileo sales and support office.
I work for Southwest, but the views expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Southwest.
 
Junction
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RE: UA Vs EA In ATL

Tue Mar 08, 2005 5:28 am

That route map posted in reply 17 by ARCJET is amazing! Can you even imagine UA landing at Salem, Oregon or Pendleton, Oregon today?
 
7e72004
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RE: UA Vs EA In ATL

Tue Mar 08, 2005 5:38 am

I miss seeing those eastern jets  Sad
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
ARCJET
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RE: UA Vs EA In ATL

Tue Mar 08, 2005 10:48 am

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United's east coast network, 1969
Charleston, SC
 
September11
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RE: UA Vs EA In ATL

Tue Mar 08, 2005 10:56 am

Kansas City - Baltimore/Washington

1969 - nonstop on United

2005 - nonstop on ?

I don't see Columbus, Ohio - Chicago O'Hare route on the map...


 hyper 
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ARCJET
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RE: UA Vs EA In ATL

Tue Mar 08, 2005 11:00 am

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and let's not forget the great Eastern Airlines...
Charleston, SC
 
September11
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RE: UA Vs EA In ATL

Tue Mar 08, 2005 11:06 am

Eastern Airlines 1978 Route System!  talktothehand 

... If you never heard of Eastern Airlines  box 
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ARCJET
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RE: UA Vs EA In ATL

Tue Mar 08, 2005 11:08 am

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United Airlines - June 9, 1978, 4 months before the passage of the deregulation act...
Charleston, SC
 
September11
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RE: UA Vs EA In ATL

Tue Mar 08, 2005 11:12 am

ARCJET - you get this  trophy  for excellent quality of those route system images.

 camera 

I just can't believe United's 1978 route system!  faint 
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ARCJET
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RE: UA Vs EA In ATL

Tue Mar 08, 2005 11:17 am

Image hosted by Photobucket.com
Charleston, SC
 
ARCJET
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RE: UA Vs EA In ATL

Tue Mar 08, 2005 11:24 am

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One of my favorite airlines, TWA!! from the fall of 1978.
Charleston, SC
 
September11
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RE: UA Vs EA In ATL

Tue Mar 08, 2005 11:27 am

look at AA 1978 route system!  scratchchin 

that is  old  !!!

Do not give me  headache 
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ARCJET
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RE: UA Vs EA In ATL

Tue Mar 08, 2005 11:36 am

Image hosted by Photobucket.com
Image hosted by Photobucket.com
Image hosted by Photobucket.com
Charleston, SC
 
kkfla737
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RE: UA Vs EA In ATL

Tue Mar 08, 2005 1:45 pm

It's amazing how each carrier was essentialy regional- consider Continental did not even serve the Northeast and as I've pointed out over and over on various threads, AA was the last US legacy carrier to serve Miami, an airport yhey now dominate. Note the similarity in Delta and Eastern's route structure although obviously at the point of these maps, EA was much larger.
 
Tan Flyr
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RE: UA Vs EA In ATL

Wed Mar 09, 2005 2:36 am

ARCJET...thanks for the maps....really great remembering those days.

I got a kick of the UA routes thru central California in those days..737's stopping at BFL, VIS, FAT, STK, MOD..all tied to SFO and LAX. Of course Jet-A was about 35 cents per gallon in 78 and probably only 15-20 cents in 1969.

There are some folks here that will never get over the days when UA had jet service 737/727 up and down the San Joaquin Valley.

So, Now I ask this question....were the Caravelles ever assigned to intra-California service?


Thanks
 
7e72004
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RE: UA Vs EA In ATL

Wed Mar 09, 2005 2:39 am

That is neat to see...i was too young to remember those days but just looking at those maps is amazing.
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
727LOVER
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RE: UA Vs EA In ATL

Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:45 am

requesting North Central, Southern, National, and Piedmont Big grin
I feel woozy....what did you put in that Pudding Pop?

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