vsmike
Posts: 279
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Human Remains & The TSA

Tue Mar 08, 2005 12:25 pm

I am an (international) airline employee.

I am usually quite proud of this fact.
I like my company. I like the airport in which I work. I even like the passengers... most of the time.
I hold life, liberty, and the "American Way" to a high standard.
Life is generally good.

However...

Today I am ashamed to be associated with air travel in the USA, and I even must question what the growing worldwide perception (reality?) of traveling to/through America is becoming.

Why?

One simple Answer: TSA

Tonight at work I had the unique opportunity to watch many of TSA's finest: open, remove the contents of, x-ray, and make a very distraught passenger repack CREMATED HUMAN REMAINS.
(there is a plastic bag inside of the urn).

If you've never seen cremated human remains, you are lucky.
If you are a family member of the deceased, it is NOT SOMETHING YOU WANT TO SEE OR HANDLE in your lifetime.

Of course, there is a long story-within-a-story here, and I'm not about to recount it, in all its disgusting glory. My airline allows its passengers to hand-carry cremated ashes as long as it is verifiable with proper documentation from the funeral home, etc.

In this case, however, our governmentally-appointed "friends and protectors" from the TSA could not x-ray through the metal urn, thus demanding (yes, demanding) to have the urn dismantled and the ensuing bits 'n pieces x-rayed for the safety of all.

Now, I have chosen my words carefully here. If in case anyone reading this post is intent on using American air travel as a weapon against the world again, I have not given up any secrets to you. Go ahead, buy an urn and come see me at the airport. I dare you. You don't want that option because you can be sure I PROFILE ALL DAY LONG.

As for the TSA... Oh, you poor, uneducated, tactless, useless, banal, mindless, retched scum of the Earth. You have proven once again how truly avoidable you are making America, not only to Americans & non-American visitors, but also to the airline employees you have to work along side of every day. I detest and loath you all... not individually, necessarily, but as a whole, profiled group of categorized morons that you are. I will hold out hope that there may be one useful individual in your organization that I have not yet met, however I will now petition for your removal ASAP on behalf of all those you antagonize on a daily basis. At least you can argue that low-paid, non-English speaking security contractors (like pre-9/11) didn't have to CARE.
What's your excuse?
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Newark777
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RE: Human Remains & The TSA

Tue Mar 08, 2005 12:31 pm

Quoting VSMike (reply 0):
As for the TSA... Oh, you poor, uneducated, tactless, useless, banal, mindless, retched scum of the Earth


Join the party. I can't wait until ANCflyer sees this thread.  Smile

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
N5176Y
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RE: Human Remains & The TSA

Tue Mar 08, 2005 12:34 pm

How would you have handled it?
 
PHX Flyer
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RE: Human Remains & The TSA

Tue Mar 08, 2005 12:36 pm

Yeah, disgusting it is, but have you considered for a moment putting the blame on those cheapos, who felt the need to haul the remains of their loved one as a carry-on? What was the TSA supposed to do, in view of 9/11? Anybody with an iota of common sense, would have let the undertaker take care of the transport of the urn.
 
vsmike
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RE: Human Remains & The TSA

Tue Mar 08, 2005 12:38 pm

You first, N5176Y.
I would really like to open this post to useful criticisms, ideas, and thought-provoking, intelligent commentary. I have my opinions, but I will digress for a short time, sorry...

Go ahead. Please. I'm still a little too angry.

VSM

[Edited 2005-03-08 04:40:09]

[Edited 2005-03-08 04:46:14]
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vsmike
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RE: Human Remains & The TSA

Tue Mar 08, 2005 12:44 pm

PHX -
I thought about that. I even agee with you somewhat.
But carrying remains is common practice. I've seen it before.
I feel that there must be a contingency plan in place by the TSA. Obviously not. And we're talking about an international flight here -- many legalities in both shipping AND carrying this sort of thing abroad. In this case, lets assume that carrying may have been easier. The passenger in question was in the USA on holiday, lost a relative, had the cremation performed in the USA, and was traveling home, outside of the USA...

[Edited 2005-03-08 04:49:30]
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PapaNovember
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RE: Human Remains & The TSA

Tue Mar 08, 2005 12:51 pm

Um...You lost me. First you condemn the TSA for their handling of the situation and then you encourage others to try it themselves - WTF??

How should the situation have been handled? And why would you challenge people to "Go ahead, buy an urn and come see me at the airport. I dare you. You don't want that option because you can be sure I PROFILE ALL DAY LONG." And especially after commenting on how you're so incensed by the way it was handled. And what if someone shows up with an urn to test you? What will you do as an airline employee that wouldn't involve the TSA to begin with?

And why is with the last paragraph even necessary? You obviously have a grudge against the TSA for some reason.
 
Newark777
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RE: Human Remains & The TSA

Tue Mar 08, 2005 12:51 pm

Couldn't they have done what they do with film, where they wipe it with those swabs and put the swabs in that machine? They do it with film, I don't see why they can't do it with an urn.

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
APFPilot1985
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RE: Human Remains & The TSA

Tue Mar 08, 2005 12:57 pm

Quoting PHX Flyer (reply 3):
Yeah, disgusting it is, but have you considered for a moment putting the blame on those cheapos, who felt the need to haul the remains of their loved one as a carry-on?

Yes, anybody with an Iota of common sense would have let the remains of a loved one out of their sight in a fragile container to be transported transatlantic? Frankly i think that was a pretty ignorant comment.
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vsmike
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RE: Human Remains & The TSA

Tue Mar 08, 2005 1:00 pm

Papa-
Re-read my main post. You missed the point. I asked for useful comments, not "WTF".
Try again.
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hawk44
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RE: Human Remains & The TSA

Tue Mar 08, 2005 1:02 pm

Are you saying an urn should not be screened? I'm all for the sensitivity of the situation however we are up against people who will do anything to destroy us and if you don't think they would hide explosives in an urn then you need to guess again.

Hawk44
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PHX Flyer
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RE: Human Remains & The TSA

Tue Mar 08, 2005 1:06 pm

@ APFPilot1985
I beg to differ. For one, an urn is not exactly fragile, and secondly, for Fedex or UPS it does not make any difference, if you ship from NYC to Boston, or transatlantic. And trust me, they do have expertise shipping human remains.
 
vsmike
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RE: Human Remains & The TSA

Tue Mar 08, 2005 1:07 pm

Hawk-
Hey, man, I agree with you. I really do. I don't put anything past people who are intent. But there is need for separation between safety and common sense. I am struggling to find the acceptable middle-ground, too. This particular situation went too far, and that is still my opinion. Maybe you had to be there to see the tears and the emotion...
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APFPilot1985
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RE: Human Remains & The TSA

Tue Mar 08, 2005 1:08 pm

Quoting PHX Flyer (reply 11):
@ APFPilot1985
I beg to differ. For one, an urn is not exactly fragile, and secondly, for Fedex or UPS it does not make any difference, if you ship from NYC to Boston, or transatlantic. And trust me, they do have expertise shipping human remains.

None the less just because someone feels more comfortable taking the remains by hand doesnt make them cheap.
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LN-MOW
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RE: Human Remains & The TSA

Tue Mar 08, 2005 1:12 pm

There are urns that the x-ray machines can see through, and funeral homes and agents have been advised to recommend these when someone are travelling with their loved ones. Unfortunatly this doesn't always happen.
Obviously this is a very delicate matter but it is unfair to put the blame on the TSA agents alone. They're just following orders. The fact that they not always show tact, is another story - I shall not mention the episode we recently had over here with a leaking urn .....

Bottom line is that these situations can be avoided with a little planning. However it is understandable that grieving pax not always act rationally, and that is why it is so important that they get good advise before they get to the airport.
- I am LN-MOW, and I approve this message.
 
vsmike
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RE: Human Remains & The TSA

Tue Mar 08, 2005 1:13 pm

Let's just say the passenger, for whatever personal reason, was not cheap. The passenger was sentimental. Attached. In mourning. Desperate. And the passenger had taken all the necessary steps to ensure carrying the urn was acceptable, legal, and otherwise OK...

(although I do think the UPS/FedEx option is a better option, personally. that much said, I have never lost a loved one abroad and I can't really say what I would do...)
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usnseallt82
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RE: Human Remains & The TSA

Tue Mar 08, 2005 1:16 pm

haha, I still get a kick out of seeing what some people say on this site.  Big grin
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vsmike
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RE: Human Remains & The TSA

Tue Mar 08, 2005 1:17 pm

LN-
Since TSA were the only governing body searching and securing the airport, they do shoulder 100% of the action THEY took.

Agreed however, all options should be exhausted by the passenger before setting out on an expedition like this.
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vsmike
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RE: Human Remains & The TSA

Tue Mar 08, 2005 1:21 pm

Usnseallt82-
Good for you. And what say you...?
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NASCARAirforce
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RE: Human Remains & The TSA

Tue Mar 08, 2005 1:28 pm

Hmmm, perhaps there is a simple solution...

Urns should be checked. It would be the TSA's responsibility to provide the airlines with special safe boxes to carry the urns while checked. Passengers will not be charged for exceeded checked luggage because of the urn.

What I wonder is, how do they check caskets and corpses? Frequently caskets carrying the deceased are shipped on planes in the cargo holds. Do they open them up too to inspect?

VSMike, I can just see one of those Thousands Standing Around drop an urn and spill its contents all over the floor like they did my briefcase last December.

Welcome to my respected users list VSMike.
 
vsmike
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RE: Human Remains & The TSA

Tue Mar 08, 2005 1:32 pm

NASCAR-
Thanks, man! And you'll be on my list, too.
Caskets are usually shipped via the airline's cargo division, and x-rayed just like regular cargo shipments. There are "known shipper" bureaucracies, etc... but I do believe this is how it is done...
As for briefcases like yours... well, dumping the contents does seem like a good TSA "trick"...

 Smile
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TheGov
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RE: Human Remains & The TSA

Tue Mar 08, 2005 1:34 pm

As a funeral director and former airline employee, I just could not let this one rest.

First of all, FedEx and UPS will not accept cremated human remains for shipment. The only people that will accept the cremated human remains for shipment is the United States Post Office. Now, with that said, would you rather take your chances with the TSA or the Post Office if you wanted to get your loved one from point A to point B?

Secondly, a funeral service trade journal discussed this very issue a couple of months back. They (if I remember correctly) stated that the urn manufacturers were working with the TSA to make solid urns that could go through the x-ray machines and still display the contents therein thus not requiring them to be emptied.

The other option they were working on went something like this: Have the family clear the checkpoint and board the aircraft with the cremains in the plastic container they come from the crematory in. The family would pack the empty urn in their suitcase, or carry it on board, and when they arrived home, they would go to a designated funeral service provider who would transfer the cremains to the urn from the temporary container at no charge. With this method, the TSA would not need to empty the urn at the checkpoint.

The funeral industry is very aware of this problem and wants to solve it to everyone's pleasure. So, just give it time.
Always a pallbearer, never a corpse.
 
777STL
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RE: Human Remains & The TSA

Tue Mar 08, 2005 1:39 pm

As much as I loathe the TSA, I can't fault them on this one. They check every other carry on item, heck the last time I flew they x-rayed my cup of coffee and my magazine, so why not the urn? If you find it humiliating, then don't carry your loved one onboard with you.

-77
PHX based
 
vsmike
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RE: Human Remains & The TSA

Tue Mar 08, 2005 1:40 pm

Thanks Gov.
I appreciate your insite. Welcome to my respected users list.
Please encourage haste within your community regarding this issue, because I witnessed worse-case-senario today, and it was horrible and unfair. Contact me if I can be any help!
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ANCFlyer
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RE: Human Remains & The TSA

Tue Mar 08, 2005 1:42 pm

Quoting Newark777 (reply 1):
Join the party. I can't wait until ANCflyer sees this thread.


Ahhhh, I've seen it. I believe it. The dumb ass losers at TSA / RCSS), Taiwan">TSA - I bet they'd want their Mom, Dad, Granny, etc, X-Rayed at in front of God and everyone at the airport security screening checkpoint.

Quoting VSMike (reply 0):
As for the TSA / RCSS), Taiwan">TSA... Oh, you poor, uneducated, tactless, useless, banal, mindless, retched scum of the Earth


Yup, Yup, Yup, what he said, Yup, Yup, Yup. Goddamn losers! Period! Losers!

Several months ago, the TSA / RCSS), Taiwan">TSA, in their infinite wisdom, and this was in the Anchorage paper - sorry too old to provide link - actually took an urn from a persons checked luggage, checked it, incorrectly repacked it, and consquently, the remains burst open in flight, an AS flight (not a dig at AS just want to add credibility to my story since I have no link), and before the aircraft got from ANC / PANC), USA - Alaska">ANC to SEA, the remains had thoroughly coated everything in the poor womans bag. This what you're referring to LN-MOW??? Now, WTF do you do with this!?!?!?!

Launder out Uncle Tom from your drawers, shirts and jeans?

The goddamn TSA / RCSS), Taiwan">TSA is a waste of Federal Funds, Thousands of frickin' Losers standing around. Couldn't do a job competently if wanted to.

Quoting N5176Y (reply 2):
How would you have handled it?


X-Rayed the content in the container - without removing for the whole damn world to see. . . . in situations like this the TSA / RCSS), Taiwan">TSA needs some compassion - perhaps even call over a supervisor . . . . . AND NOOOOO, not with the usual tact of the fucked up TSA / RCSS), Taiwan">TSA by screaming across the security area something like "DEAD BODY TO CHECK". More like a discreet call, perhaps by a small radio, the let a supervisor come over and express sympathy for the loss, and explain that we must still check the remains and we're sorry but the rules say so, but I'll be extremely careful, and do it personally, just to make sure things are done correctly and with reverence. Not our TSA / RCSS), Taiwan">TSA by golly . . . . frickin' losers!

Quoting PapaNovember (reply 6):
How should the situation have been handled?


See above comment . . .

Quoting PapaNovember (reply 6):
You obviously have a grudge against the TSA / RCSS), Taiwan">TSA for some reason.


Nope, no grudge, I don't hold grudges . . . I just think they're a goddamn waste of money. Inconsistent, over reactive, nonsensical, wate of taxpayers money.

Example: You don't HAVE to take your shoes off . . . but I'll guarantee you a trip through secondary at ANC / PANC), USA - Alaska">ANC if you don't.

Example: Take your laptops out - why? We're the only damn country that does this? Why, can anyone tell me? Wen we can send a DVD player, video Camera, and every other piece of electronic gadgetry through WITHOUT removing it from the case . . . just the Laptop - absolutely frickin' ridiculous.

And, now - even though I'm a non-smoker - the Coup de' grace! Lighters! What a load of shit. You realllllly expect to be able to enforce no matches or lighters? If so, you're more flippin' stupid than I first anticipated.

TSA / RCSS), Taiwan">TSA sucks, period, dot, next.

TSA / RCSS), Taiwan">TSA - THOUSANDS STANDING AROUND - LOSERS!

[Edited 2005-03-08 05:48:32]
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
vsmike
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RE: Human Remains & The TSA

Tue Mar 08, 2005 1:43 pm

777STL -
I am OK with x-raying the urn. Everything passing TSA must be x-rayed. I agree with that completely.
Sensitivity and TSA protocall (if there is any) might dictate discression in this case? I don't know. But for God's sake, DON'T OPEN THE URN!!
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ANCFlyer
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RE: Human Remains & The TSA

Tue Mar 08, 2005 1:45 pm

Quoting PHX Flyer (reply 3):
Yeah, disgusting it is, but have you considered for a moment putting the blame on those cheapos, who felt the need to haul the remains of their loved one as a carry-on?


Missed this . . . sorry

PHXFLyer . . . until you HAVE a loved one to carry along in an urn I suggest you STFU.

My father brought my step Monster errr, Mother back with him when he moved back to Alaska in 2003. Now, I despised the woman personally, but it is his wife of 40 years, and he will not be separated from her.

That's not being cheap. That's real love, that's really caring.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
APFPilot1985
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RE: Human Remains & The TSA

Tue Mar 08, 2005 1:46 pm

Quoting PHX+Flyer" class=quote target=_blank>PHX Flyer (reply 11):
I beg to differ. For one, an urn is not exactly fragile, and secondly, for Fedex or UPS it does not make any difference, if you ship from NYC to Boston, or transatlantic. And trust me, they do have expertise shipping human remains.


Quoting TheGov (reply 21):
First of all, FedEx and UPS will not accept cremated human remains for shipment. The only people that will accept the cremated human remains for shipment is the United States Post Office. Now, with that said, would you rather take your chances with the TSA or the Post Office if you wanted to get your loved one from point A to point B?



good call PHX, you can apologize anytime you want for calling me cheap
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hawk44
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RE: Human Remains & The TSA

Tue Mar 08, 2005 1:55 pm

Quoting VSMike (reply 12):
Hey, man, I agree with you. I really do. I don't put anything past people who are intent. But there is need for separation between safety and common sense. I am struggling to find the acceptable middle-ground, too. This particular situation went too far, and that is still my opinion. Maybe you had to be there to see the tears and the emotion...


It's definitely a difficult situation to be in and I know what you mean certain things have a big emotional feel but you have to be there and I think this was one of those times. I know a few stories of coffins having no trouble and the airport being nothing but accommodating but every situation is different as well as every airline with handling these types of things.

Hawk44
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vsmike
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RE: Human Remains & The TSA

Tue Mar 08, 2005 2:02 pm

Hawk-
Coffins. Yeah, sure. Right. Usually not a major problem.
But I am most certainly NOT talking about airline policy here. My airline has a policy. A well-written one.
Does TSA?
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flyingnanook
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RE: Human Remains & The TSA

Tue Mar 08, 2005 2:07 pm

I am so f-ing sick and tired of the consistent bitching about the TSA on this board. The agency as a whole has some pretty stupid policies, but this has nothing to do with the individuals who run the security checkpoint.

Guess what. If the x-ray cannot see through an urn, they have to open up the urn to verify the contents. That is common sense. I had a chocolate bunny in my carry-on bag which showed up on the screen as the same color as c4 explosives. Even though it was in the shape of a bunny, the TSA agents opened my bag and sent the bunny through the x-ray alone. Makes sense to me.

I take offense to your comment "Oh, you poor, uneducated, tactless, useless, banal, mindless, retched scum of the Earth" I will most likely be joining their ranks in the fall when I move to Anchorage to study Air Traffic Control at the University there. The reason is that they pay better than university jobs, and they schedule around classes. I have no idea what agents you run into because all the agents I have met have been friendly and professional. The only problem I've had was with one who had a thick southern accent, which I couldn't understand very well. But it all worked out. Some of them may seem heavy-handed, but how would you like it if you had to suspect everybody you see? That must be hard on one's psyche to consider everyone a criminal.

Before you accuse me, I am not a flag waving American who supports every move Dubya makes. I am about as opposite to that as one can be. I am just sick and tired of people constantly speaking horribly about TSA agents who have nothing to do with making the procedures that their agency has them enforce.
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ANCFlyer
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RE: Human Remains & The TSA

Tue Mar 08, 2005 2:09 pm

Quoting VSMike (reply 30):
But I am most certainly NOT talking about airline policy here. My airline has a policy. A well-written one.
Does TSA?


Sure TSA has a written policy, varies from airport to airport, and shift to shift and is probably written on the sauce stained napkins of the fat asses as they spend time in the snack bar gaining weight . . . . . sure it's well written . . . as best as can be seen between the relish, ketchup and occasion coffee stain!

TSA=Thousands Standing Around=LOSERS!
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
PapaNovember
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RE: Human Remains & The TSA

Tue Mar 08, 2005 2:09 pm

VSMike,

I have re-read your main post, and you made no mention of requesting comments at all, let alone useful ones. It wasn't until reply #4 when you hinted as to the intent of your thread which posted while I was typing.

And you're correct, I did miss the point of your original post, which was in large part, the reason for my reply. In fact, I am still missing the point of your main post. You asked no questions, offered no solutions or alternatives and basically told a story of what happened at the airport today. And even after having been asked how you would have handled the situation differently you either don't acknowledge the question or require others to "Try again".

Reply #12 is the closest you've come to asking people for their input and useful comments and yet, you still haven't asked.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Human Remains & The TSA

Tue Mar 08, 2005 2:17 pm

Quoting FlyingNanook (reply 31):
I take offense to your comment "Oh, you poor, uneducated, tactless, useless, banal, mindless, retched scum of the Earth" I will most likely be joining their ranks in the fall when I move to Anchorage to study Air Traffic Control at the University there.


I'm damn sorry to hear that. I have a friend, formerly with a Law Enforcement Agency - fairly high rank as well - who is now with TSA. And I was terribly sorry to hear that also.

Quoting FlyingNanook (reply 31):
but this has nothing to do with the individuals who run the security checkpoint.


Nanook . . . I'm sorry to disappoint you, but it has everything to do with those idiots at the checkpoints. Pay attention to them next time you fly - which I do at least 6 times a month . . . .

I look at the number of supervisors standing there - and I'm amazed. I could run a whole damn Armor Battalion with the number of TSA supervisors standing at any given moment at B Security at ANC.

I guess I should rephrase that - I could run a whole damn Armor Battalion INTO THE GROUND with that much help.

I'm sure one day we'll meet, but fortunately, you won't know who ANCFlyer is, and I won't know who FlyingNanook is when I get to the airport. That'd suck for both of us wouldn't it. Good luck at the TSA, you'll need it.

TSA=Thousands Standing Around=Losers!
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
hawk44
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RE: Human Remains & The TSA

Tue Mar 08, 2005 2:18 pm

Quoting VSMike (reply 30):
My airline has a policy. A well-written one.
Does TSA?


Now that's a good question I don't work for them so I don't have the answer. But I can tell this issue really hit hard with you, next time you work if possible maybe pull aside a TSA supervisor and let them know about this and see what the status is of the policy TheGov was talking about. That's the best I could come up with  boggled 

Hawk44
Never under estimate the power of US
 
vsmike
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RE: Human Remains & The TSA

Tue Mar 08, 2005 2:23 pm

Papa-
Time for bed, kiddo. No one else had any trouble. My post got your attention, though. And by your replies I seem to have held your attention. Thanks for your comments.

Nanook-
I hope you can redeem TSA by your employment, and possibly prove me wrong. Be an ambassador of good will, and never sacrifice yourself, your morals or your goals. Good luck. Let me know how it goes.

ANC-
Oh right. Forgot to check their policy log. Isn't it round, and deep, and lined with a plastic bag?

Now for all, obviously I don't like TSA. It's deeper than that, actually. But this isn't just one of those fu*cking-off-TSA posts. THEY DID SOMETHING WRONG HERE, whether or not you can see it.
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aogdesk
Posts: 748
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RE: Human Remains & The TSA

Tue Mar 08, 2005 2:26 pm

This is from the sidelines of course, but.....

Like many others, I've seen the tact of the TSA, in short, there is none. Of course, there has to be security protocols to be followed. The original poster of this thread makes it sound like all of this transpired in the security area within view of every Tom Dick and Harry. If thats the case, thats sad.....I find it difficult to believe that they couldn't address the situation in a sensitive manner, perhaps inspecting the urn and such in a discreet fashion. Its not as if every third person is carrying human remains.
 
vsmike
Posts: 279
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RE: Human Remains & The TSA

Tue Mar 08, 2005 2:28 pm

Thank you, Hawk.

I agree with you, and perhaps I can post a follow-up later with the results of the meeting I will SURELY be calling.

Sometimes it is OK to just say "I don't know". Me for one, I don't really know how I would have handled this situation if it had been handed to me at the onset. It didn't start with me, but it did end with my presence!
I do know how it WOULD NOT have been handled... Firstly, I would NOT have opened the urn.
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vsmike
Posts: 279
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RE: Human Remains & The TSA

Tue Mar 08, 2005 2:38 pm

Aogdesk-

Eventually, it was moved to a more... ah... remote location. However it took at least 3 supervisors, 12 agents, 1 CTX machine, my 3 airline reps, and the passenger.

I still haven't posted all the gory details of the situation... just the important, unclassified events. If I had posted all the mindless ramblings and their REactions, I would have painted them in a bad light. I wanted to be the one to speak ill of them that way only I could be blamed for being partial and having my own, solid opinion. They can make themselves look much worse than I ever could, TRUST ME. Their offhanded comments and back-door lingo were as useful as a bullfrog with tits. So much for sensitivity.

[Edited 2005-03-08 06:56:14]
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RyDawg82
Posts: 833
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RE: Human Remains & The TSA

Tue Mar 08, 2005 2:40 pm

This is a horrible situation and I will admit the TSA has errked me a few times myself, but have any of ya'll looked at the TSA site for their policy on this?

http://www.tsa.gov/public/interapp/editorial/editorial_1296.xml

Of interest from that link:
Crematory Containers
The Funeral Homes listed in the PDF below have agreed to transfer remains from a temporary container to a permanent container free of charge. This complimentary service is provided to the traveling pubic so that air travel passengers can pass through TSA security checkpoints with a temporary crematory container and upon final destination have the remains transferred for free by their local TSA Funeral Home Partner. Passengers may transfer the remains themselves but have the option of utilizing this free service.

Carry-on: You are allowed to carry-on a crematory container, but it must pass through the x-ray machine. If the container is made of a material that prevents the screener from clearly being able to see what is inside, then the container will not be allowed through the security checkpoint.
This is made possible by the said TSA Funeral Home Partner Service.

Out of respect for the deceased, the screener may not open the container under any circumstance.
Crematory Container Materials: Crematory containers are made from many different types of materials, all with varying thickness. At present, TSA cannot state for certain whether your particular crematory container can successfully pass through an x-ray machine. However, TSA suggests that you purchase a temporary or permanent crematory container made of a lighter weight material such as wood or plastic that can be successfully x-rayed. The TSA will continue to work with funeral home associations to provide additional guidance in the future.


This horrible situation may have been prevented with a trip to the TSA website, and I do know certain airlines have made this services knowledge available to their front line employees who could field these concerns.

-R
You can take the pup out of Alaska, but you can't take the Alaska out of the pup.
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
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RE: Human Remains & The TSA

Tue Mar 08, 2005 2:48 pm

Quoting RyDawg82 (reply 40):
Out of respect for the deceased, the screener may not open the container under any circumstance.


The according to the initial post in this thread the TSA / RCSS), Taiwan">TSA has already screwed up!

I love it when I'm right - they don't even know their own goddamn policies!

Quoting RyDawg82 (reply 40):
This horrible situation may have been prevented with a trip to the TSA / RCSS), Taiwan">TSA website,


This is a horrible situation that could have been prevented if the TSA / RCSS), Taiwan">TSA had their head out of their ass . . . . . and perhaps had . . . . . . . . .

Quoting ANCFlyer (reply 24):
Quoting N5176Y (reply 2):
How would you have handled it?

X-Rayed the content in the container - without removing for the whole damn world to see. . . . in situations like this the TSA / RCSS), Taiwan">TSA / RCSS), Taiwan">TSA / RCSS), Taiwan">TSA needs some compassion - perhaps even call over a supervisor . . . . . AND / KAND), USA - South Carolina">AND NOOOOO, not with the usual tact of the fucked up TSA / RCSS), Taiwan">TSA / RCSS), Taiwan">TSA / RCSS), Taiwan">TSA by screaming across the security area something like "DEAD BODY TO CHECK". More like a discreet call, perhaps by a small radio, the let a supervisor come over and express sympathy for the loss, and explain that we must still check the remains and we're sorry but the rules say so, but I'll be extremely careful, and do it personally, just to make sure things are done correctly and with reverence. Not our TSA / RCSS), Taiwan">TSA / RCSS), Taiwan">TSA / RCSS), Taiwan">TSA by golly . . . . frickin' losers!


The original poster said the traveler was a foreign national returning home with a deceased family member that passed away on the trip. What's the goddamn off chance this traveler in the US happened to think, in all their greif, Holy Shit Batman, I better check the TSA web site to see how to get Tommy home!!!!!????

Bullshit

TSA=THOUSANDS STANDING AROUND-=LOSERS!!!

[Edited 2005-03-08 06:50:35]
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
vsmike
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RE: Human Remains & The TSA

Tue Mar 08, 2005 2:51 pm

RyDawg-
Ahhh yes. True. But now we have a difference in opinion between airline policy vs. TSA policy. Like this hasn't happened before??!!??

Perhaps the TSA's website would have been a good resource prior to travel. And for this oversight, I hold the undertaker/funeral home slightly responsible. They should have been more accomodating or forthcoming with the relevant details for our passenger.

But again, with some honesty and modesty, who checks TSA's website prior to travel? US travellers & the airlines will eventually have to come to terms with all the new rules and regulations TSA is spewing forth. I know this logically. But to date, TSA's own rules & regulations are just guidelines at best. And the calibre of their staff still leave much to be desired.

Don't even think about flying with your lighters!! Effective 14April2005...

[Edited 2005-03-08 07:42:08]
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flybyguy
Posts: 1415
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RE: Human Remains & The TSA

Tue Mar 08, 2005 3:14 pm

That is a disgusting situation... only halfwhits can let this sort of thing happen. The least they could have done was show the dead proper dignity. What's next for the TSA? "TSA agents questioned after performing full cavity search on human corpse."

Oh boy don't get me started with the TSA. They broke into my luggage twice (a few months after 9-11) and both times things were missing and those halfwhits didn't even close them correctly so presumably some of my stuff may have been flying back and forth to Katmandu in the belly of some Godforsaken airplane. I fully expect there to be numerous theft rings within the TSA itself. Unbridled access to any luggage, security clearances, and sticky fingers all facilitate potential corruption. Some baggage handlers at the airlines are not better either. The can take advantage of the lock-less luggage policies of the TSA to steal professional photography/video equipment, cutlery, electronics etc. I urge anyone who MUST check in valuables to insure them to the max.

I say if you give minimum wage slobs a job as an airline security Officer under federal mandate you're asking for trouble.
"Are you a pretender... or a thoroughbred?!" - Professor Matt Miller
 
vsmike
Posts: 279
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RE: Human Remains & The TSA

Tue Mar 08, 2005 3:19 pm

Flybyguy,

Trouble has been found. Capital "T"... like in TSA. Biggest troubling point is that they are NOT paid minimum wage. Quite the opposite. They are paid too much for the job they actually do AND they have some Government benefits. Troubling indeed!

Don't check ANY valuables in your baggage. It was never a good idea, pre- or post-TSA. But this forum is about my issue of HR. No hijacking...
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vsfullthrottle
Posts: 274
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RE: Human Remains & The TSA

Tue Mar 08, 2005 3:46 pm

Hey VSMike

I, since they started, have not liked the way TSA operate. They are useless!!!

I agree totally with yours and ANCFlyer's posts in this thread.

You both have now made my respected user's list.

Regards
VSFT
 
vsmike
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RE: Human Remains & The TSA

Tue Mar 08, 2005 3:56 pm

VSF-
Thanks. U too.
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L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Human Remains & The TSA

Tue Mar 08, 2005 4:43 pm

Quoting PHX Flyer (reply 3):
who felt the need to haul the remains of their loved one as a carry-on?


You would trust your loved one to a luggage monkey?

Face facts, they tell you not to pack valuables in your checked baggage for a reason, the same one that this arguably more valuabe baggage would have been hand-carried on with.


Quoting LN-MOW (reply 14):
Obviously this is a very delicate matter but it is unfair to put the blame on the TSA agents alone. They're just following orders.


Yeah that excuse worked well at Nuremburg in 1946 too.

Quoting TheGov (reply 21):
The funeral industry is very aware of this problem and wants to solve it to everyone's pleasure. So, just give it time.


Thanks for the insight TheGov, and it is unfortunate that your industry has to suffer due to these idiots.

Quoting FlyingNanook (reply 31):
I will most likely be joining their ranks in the fall when I move to Anchorage to study Air Traffic Control at the University there


Common, your a better person then that.....TSA not attending UAA.

Quoting ANCFlyer (reply 34):
I look at the number of supervisors standing there - and I'm amazed. I could run a whole damn Armor Battalion with the number of TSA supervisors standing at any given moment at B Security at ANC.

I guess I should rephrase that - I could run a whole damn Armor Battalion INTO THE GROUND with that much help.


Need somebody to run your commo?

Quoting Flybyguy (reply 43):
I say if you give minimum wage slobs a job as an airline security Officer under federal mandate you're asking for trouble.


Yup and that is exactly what you have.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
vsmike
Posts: 279
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RE: Human Remains & The TSA

Tue Mar 08, 2005 5:23 pm

Some good thoughts here so far. Don't let this thread die!!

Basically, the thing that really gets me is this "post-9/11"-syndrome. Some people use this quote as a crutch -- or as a justification -- for EVERYTHING. As an airline employee, I will never question the necessity for airport security. Tight security. Intensive security. Am I willing to give-up my unalienable rights as a US citizen, or be forced into conformity because it is TSA's will-of-the-day (urge-of-the-hour)? The answer is always HELL NO.

I will never forget September 11, 2001. In my heart, I will never forget the memory of that day or the sacrifice of normal citizens. Heroes they will forever be.

We as airline enthusiasts (in America), will eventually have to stand up and take back our rights. We're not the "bad guys" because we photograph aircraft, or have a love of flight, or beacuse we loiter around airports, or because we intentionally book a 3-segment flight over a nonstop gladly paying higher PFCs. I don't like being told what I can and cannot do with my livelihood and hobby because of some unnamed phobia-plague. I don't subscribe to a life of fear. I get out there and do something about it.

And I'm not talking anarchy or political correctness. Just show me ONCE that TSA have completed successfully the mission they've been commanded to achieve. The only proof would be the avaoidance of another "9/11"... but forget it. They aren't capable. Not with stunts like today. But I wish so much they were.
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ANCFlyer
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RE: Human Remains & The TSA

Tue Mar 08, 2005 5:40 pm

Quoting VSMike (reply 48):
Just show me ONCE that TSA have completed successfully the mission they've been commanded to achieve. The only proof would be the avaoidance of another "9/11"... but forget it. They aren't capable


Ha Ha Ha - TSA is protecting us . . . Ha Ha Ha . . . feel safer with those idiots . . . Ha Ha Ha . . . .

If anyone professes to feel more secure with our TSA on the job, you seriously need to have your urine sampled and up your proszac dosage.

TSA=Thousands Standing Around=Losers
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
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foxecho
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RE: Human Remains & The TSA

Tue Mar 08, 2005 6:22 pm

VSMike

Welcome to my respected users list

Andrew
JFK/MEM/MCI
..uh, we'll need that to live......