planefool1010
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2005 1:06 pm

Engine Choice For The A319

Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:34 am

I am hoping someone can shed some light on the engine choices for the A319. I've noticed that most US operators of the A319 have chosen the IAE engine over the CFM. NW, US, and F9 have opted for the CFM, while HP, UA, B6, & BR have picked the IAE, along with most European carriers.

Does anyone know why the IAE has been the engine-of-choice? Are the IAEs cheaper, offer more thrust, better mx record, etc.?
 
Amy
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Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2005 9:48 am

RE: Engine Choice For The A319

Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:48 am

'Most European Carriers' is incorrect.

Alitalia operate CFM as do Swiss, Iberia and SN Brussels. Don't forget Lufthansa. Air Berlin and Niki's orders for A320s will be 214s (i.e. CFM). BA and BMI are the only airlines I can think of right now that operate the IAE engines around europe. Both BA and BMI I believe support European Engine manufacturers by using Rolls Royce and IAE products wherever possible. Notice BA's switch from GE to RR with the 777 when the RR engines came out.

I would imagine F9 went for CFM to have comonality with the A318 for which there is no IAE contender.

As for engine performance, the two engines are very similar in mosts respects, offering equal thrust and comparable fuel burn. The CFM is the more popular engine, as it is used on all 737s bar the original -100 and -200 models and hence airlines that use both 737 and A320S can choose to have engine comonality, although sometimes (like with BA and BMI) engine choise is more political.

As for the engine prices, I would estimate at the CFMs being cheaper due to the fact that there have been many more CFM-56 than IAE V2500, with the CFM powering 737s and the original A340s not to mention some DC-8 and 707 conversions, but this is just speculation.
A340-300 - slow, but awesome!
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
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RE: Engine Choice For The A319

Thu Mar 10, 2005 2:06 am

Quoting Amy (Reply 1):
Both BA and BMI I believe support European Engine manufacturers by using Rolls Royce and IAE products wherever possible.


It is not about it being European, as IAE and CFMI are both joint EU/US firms. IAE is part owned by RR, to which BA (and to an extent, BD) are generally loyal because it is a British company. The reason AF orders GE engines (a US company) on every airplane is because of their partnership in CFMI with SNCEMA and the fact that SNCEMA builds the fans for them.

Quoting Amy (Reply 1):
Notice BA's switch from GE to RR with the 777 when the RR engines came out.


Actually, the Trent was the better engine for the lower weight 777s because it pulled the same thrust but is smaller and lighter, saving a lot of weight on the plane. This was its downfall on the heavier 772LR/773ER. BA's deal on the GE engines had to do with a deal for engine overhaul facilities.

Quoting Amy (Reply 1):
I would imagine F9 went for CFM to have comonality with the A318 for which there is no IAE contender.


Actually, the PW6000 is rather closely related to the V2500, it is just more advanced (theoretically) and more economic (not yet though, they f'ed up big time trying to rush the plane and pinch pennies). The failure of the PW6000 is the reason BA dropped its plans for the A318.

Quoting Planefool1010 (Thread starter):
A319 have chosen the IAE engine over the CFM. NW, US, and F9 have opted for the CFM, while HP, UA, B6, & BR have picked the IAE


Actually, you named 3 US carriers on each side and a Taiwanese carrier that does not fly the A32S. Anyway, NW (along with actual IAE customer UA) was a lock customer for the IAE (because of their similar relationship to PW to what UA has) when PW screwed up the IAE superfan project causing NW to drop their A340 order and left such a bad taste that NW took an order for what has become something like 200-300 engines so far to CFMI.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
whitehatter
Posts: 5180
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 6:52 am

RE: Engine Choice For The A319

Thu Mar 10, 2005 2:58 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 2):
IAE is part owned by RR, to which BA (and to an extent, BD) are generally loyal because it is a British company.


Bull.

The British carriers mentioned use IAE and Rolls products because support and parts can be sourced from this country. Some idiotic notion of patriotic loyalty is exactly that, idiotic. Rolls can provide fast, cost-effective support as can SNECMA for Air France and the GE engines, and CFM as a whole for the AF CFM engined aircraft. British Airways bought the early GE90 in a complex deal with GE for partly the same reason, GE operating an overhaul and spares facility within the UK.

It's about time and money and not some silly flag waving exercise. Real world airline economics.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
N405MX
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Joined: Sat May 01, 2004 1:46 pm

RE: Engine Choice For The A319

Thu Mar 10, 2005 3:18 am

Here in Mexico MX uses IAE´s for the A320´s and cfm´s for the A318/19, this for commonality, but for the A320´s, the IAE has a little advantage over the cfm´s, this is the thrust bump (or booster), only on IAE powered aircraft, this gives a little more thrust on take off (really usefull in MEX with a heavy loaded aircraft).
Life is what happens when you have other plans.....
 
Jetmek319
Posts: 193
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 8:02 am

RE: Engine Choice For The A319

Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:05 am

Quoting Amy (Reply 1):
would imagine F9 went for CFM to have comonality with the A318 for which there is no IAE contender.



Frontier originally had the PW 6000 on our A318's, and switched to CFM after the PW certification was delayed. This occurred long after the A319's were already rolling off the line. We went with the CFM's due to prior experiences (733's), performance customization, and economic accommodations by CFM.
Never, ever moon a werewolf !!
 
planefool1010
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2005 1:06 pm

RE: Engine Choice For The A319

Thu Mar 10, 2005 3:14 pm



Quoting N1120A (Reply 2):
Actually, you named 3 US carriers on each side and a Taiwanese carrier that does not fly the A32S

I realize I named several carriers for each engine variant--that was not the point of my thread. I was trying to figure out what the determining factors were in each choice among the airlines that fly the A318/19/20.

Secondly, I didn't name a Taiwanese carrier:

UA = United
NW = Northwest
HP = America West
F9 = Frontier
B6 = JetBlue
BR = Independence Air

Which was the Taiwanese carrier you were thinking of?
 
planefool1010
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2005 1:06 pm

RE: Engine Choice For The A319

Thu Mar 10, 2005 11:35 pm

Sorry,

I just realized that BR is the designation of a Taiwanese carrier. I was thinking of the "BR" in the Independence Air's tail numbers (ex: N802BR). My bad.