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PA110
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SA Tentative Service To IAD And Reintroduces B744

Thu Mar 10, 2005 7:23 am

Its at least semi official - SAA has just announced a tentative schedule from IAD - their 3rd U.S. gateway.

They will be reintroducing 3-cabin B744 operations on the new IAD flight.
Service will be four days a week via ACC although no local traffic rights initially due to existing bilateral.

Tentative Schedule:

Mon/Wed/Fri/Sun
SA209 dept JNB 1840, arrv ACC 2245, dept ACC 2345, arrv IAD 0645 +1

Mon/Tue/Thu/Sat
SA208 dept IAD 0845, arrv ACC 2255, dept ACC 2355, arrv JNB 0740 +1

This is completely supplementary to existing schedule. There are no planned reductions at this time from either JFK which will retain daily A343 service and ATL which will retain daily A346 service
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TWA902fly
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RE: SA Tentative Service To IAD And Reintroduces B744

Thu Mar 10, 2005 7:28 am

this will be one of a few daylight US-Transatlantic services i see... and only 2 hours ground time in IAD

TWA902
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PA110
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RE: SA Tentative Service To IAD And Reintroduces B744

Thu Mar 10, 2005 7:30 am

Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 1):
this will be one of a few daylight US-Transatlantic services i see...


Actually, the current ATL-JNB service is also a morning departure... it just has a lot further to go.

SA210 dept ATL 1030, arrv JNB 1020 +1
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TWA902fly
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RE: SA Tentative Service To IAD And Reintroduces B744

Thu Mar 10, 2005 7:38 am

i understand, i was just stating that there are not very many of these flights, a couple JFK-LHRs and 1 ORD-LHR is all i can think of, maybe air france has one to CDG... i guess these arent really daylight seeing as how they end up being overnight even though they stop in ACC and SID

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gigneil
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RE: SA Tentative Service To IAD And Reintroduces B744

Thu Mar 10, 2005 8:34 am

There is a daylight IAD-LHR.

N
 
AA777
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RE: SA Tentative Service To IAD And Reintroduces B744

Thu Mar 10, 2005 8:45 am

There are two daylight IAD-LHRs.... one by BA, and one by UA.

BA 224 with a 777-200
UA 922 with a 767-300

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iowa744fan
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RE: SA Tentative Service To IAD And Reintroduces B744

Thu Mar 10, 2005 8:52 am

Has SAA's codeshare with DL officially ended already? If so, I am surprised that they are staying in Atlanta and not moving the flight to Miami or Ft. Lauderdale, where I understand there is a large South African population. Oh well...maybe they will...they know more than I do.
 
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PA110
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RE: SA Tentative Service To IAD And Reintroduces B744

Thu Mar 10, 2005 8:58 am

I've not heard that SA's codeshare with DL is ending anytime soon. They are keeping all existing service as is for the time being. There are no plans to move the flight to MIA or FLL because as large as the S.A population might be, they are not large enough to maintain daily service, and there isn't sufficient feed via either airport to fill the remaining seats.

SA's experience with MIA found that they were competing for AA domestic feed with the cruise lines, with AA's Latin America network, and for the strong nationwide demand for the Florida destinational market. Quite often at peak periods, the MIA flight left with seats open because all flights to MIA were completely full.
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RE: SA Tentative Service To IAD And Reintroduces B744

Thu Mar 10, 2005 9:01 am

Daylight flights from North America right now are:

JFK-LHR:BA,AA,

BOS-LHR:BA,AA

IAD-LHR:BA,UA

ORD-LHR:AA

YYZ-LHR:AC

EWR-LHR:VS,BA
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PA110
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RE: SA Tentative Service To IAD And Reintroduces B744

Thu Mar 10, 2005 9:28 am

We're talking about the new SA service here, not about daylight flights. This thread is in danger of being hijacked. If you want to discuss daylight flights, please start another thread.
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aviationwiz
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RE: SA Tentative Service To IAD And Reintroduces B744

Thu Mar 10, 2005 9:33 am

Even though I really like the night departure from JFK better than this tentative schedule or the morning departure from ATL, I'll be happy to fly this flight if it indeed is on the B744. This isn't an A vs B thing, it's just that SA's A340's are *SO* uncomfortable.
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AT502B
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RE: SA Tentative Service To IAD And Reintroduces B744

Thu Mar 10, 2005 9:40 am

Great news

I love the SAA 744 service, when this becomes official,it'll have me changing my upcoming trip from ATL-JNB to IAD-JNB , yes, just to fly the 744 Big grin
I was considering flying BA premium ecomomy (world Traveller plus), but now I'll go SAA and sit upstairs in economy or often referred to as poor mans business class.
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RE: SA Tentative Service To IAD And Reintroduces B744

Thu Mar 10, 2005 9:48 am

If you want to discuss daylight flights, please start another thread.

Take a chill pill, your precious thread is not being "Hijacked". Just stating what daylight flights there are.
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MAH4546
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RE: SA Tentative Service To IAD And Reintroduces B744

Thu Mar 10, 2005 10:14 am

While SAA isn't planning MIA-CPT/JNB service, an unnamed South African airline has said they plan to start MIA-CPT-JNB in 2006, once they acquire long-haul aircraft. Service would opeate 4x a week. Of course, I'm not going to hold my breathe, but I'd be very happy to see it happen and they could very well find success using an A340-300.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald...kages/business_monday/10939085.htm

O&D between Miami and South Africa is over 200 people per day, and Miami is the third largest US market to Africa after, no surprises here, New York City and Washington, D.C.


Good to see SAA at IAD...there is excellent market potential. Also, hopefully they will get rights on the IAD-ACC sector, because that is another sector with huge potential for traffic.
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behramjee
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RE: SA Tentative Service To IAD And Reintroduces B744

Thu Mar 10, 2005 10:27 am

SAA will get 5th freedom rights on ACC-IAD-ACC route once the US-Ghana open skies treaty is fully finalized which is expected to happen this winter. When it does happen and SAA have these rights, they have the potential of milking $$$ on ACC-IAD-ACC O&D traffic as well as interline connections from ACC to other major West African cities through GIA.
 
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RE: SA Tentative Service To IAD And Reintroduces B

Thu Mar 10, 2005 11:30 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
an unnamed South African airline has said they plan to start MIA / KMIA), USA - Florida">MIA-CPT / FACT), South Africa">CPT-JNB / FAJS), South Africa">JNB in 2006, once they acquire long-haul aircraft.

Well, if it isn't SAA, which since they need long-haul aircraft, it can't be, then I'd say Nationwide. They were pretty good when I flew them from JNB-CPT & return. It would be nice to see them in the US.

[Edited 2005-03-10 03:31:26]
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MAH4546
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RE: SA Tentative Service To IAD And Reintroduces B744

Thu Mar 10, 2005 11:31 am



Quoting Behramjee (Reply 14):
SAA will get 5th freedom rights on ACC-IAD-ACC route once the US-Ghana open skies treaty is fully finalized which is expected to happen this winter.

It goes into effect at the end of March 2006.
a.
 
JoFMO
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RE: SA Tentative Service To IAD And Reintroduces B744

Thu Mar 10, 2005 11:51 am

The early departure in IAD makes me wonder. It is not very comfortable to be at an airport for an international departure before 9 o'clock.
And if the new codeshare with UA will once come into effect, this departure doesn't offer a lot of good connections.
Why not depart at noon and have an early morning arrival in ACC for being in JNB in the afternoon?
 
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RE: SA Tentative Service To IAD And Reintroduces B744

Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:34 pm



Quoting JoFMO (Reply 17):
The early departure in IAD makes me wonder. It is not very comfortable to be at an airport for an international departure before 9 o'clock.
And if the new codeshare with UA will once come into effect, this departure doesn't offer a lot of good connections.
Why not depart at noon and have an early morning arrival in ACC for being in JNB in the afternoon?

Well said, SAA does the same thing with the ATL flight which departs at 10:30am?!? It is impossible to connect to this flight unless you live in the immediate area (ie> short connection), or catch a redeye arriving at 5-6am. What I normally end up doing is flying to ATL the night before and spending the night in a hotel- which ruins the whole benefit of not having to travel through Europe?!!! It almost makes more sense to fly to Europe the night before and connect down to JNB(it saves on hotel and transfers) the following day. Anyway what do I know? Big grin
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RE: SA Tentative Service To IAD And Reintroduces B744

Thu Mar 10, 2005 3:59 pm

I thought their 6 remaining B744s were all tied up for LHR services. Does this move mean that they will either hold on to extra B744 capacity (I don't know if or when excess B744 capacity has already left SAAs fleet), or start operating the A346 on some of their Heathrow flights? This IAD schedule could be helpful to boost the rather low average daily utilization rate of the 744s, three of which sit on the ground at Heathrow for the better part of any given day.
 
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RE: SA Tentative Service To IAD And Reintroduces B744

Fri Mar 11, 2005 1:40 am

will this complete the current 4weekly a340 or are they replacing them?
Next destinations, Suarabaya, beirut, paris, Accra
 
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RE: SA Tentative Service To IAD And Reintroduces B744

Fri Mar 11, 2005 2:06 am

Word has it that many airlines at IAD (Dulles)...Star Alliance, SA, Ethiopian, Aeroflot.... are asking United to submit bids to provide customer service and ground handling. United is reluctant, however, because it is having a hard time hiring enough part employees to cover its existing schedule at Dulles. Low pay, no full time opportunities, lousy hours which conflict with employees who want to work two jobs are the reasons for the inability to find staff.
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FlyPNS1
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RE: SA Tentative Service To IAD And Reintroduces B744

Fri Mar 11, 2005 2:17 am

Well said, SAA does the same thing with the ATL flight which departs at 10:30am?!? It is impossible to connect to this flight unless you live in the immediate area (ie> short connection), or catch a redeye arriving at 5-6am.

Virtually every city east of the mississippi that DL serves nonstop from ATL has at least one flight that puts you into ATL by 9am.
 
Jeremy
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RE: SA Tentative Service To IAD And Reintroduces B744

Fri Mar 11, 2005 2:24 am

This is great!
I was bummed when USAfrica(E8) went under, they used to have IAD-SID-JNB service on an MD-11.
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TonyBurr
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RE: SA Tentative Service To IAD And Reintroduces B744

Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:10 am

Is there any start up date for SAA in Star Alliance? The morning departure from IAD is not good I think. That does not allow any connections fro other cities. I think it would be much better to have a later departure to draw more non O&D from just IAD.
 
AT502B
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RE: SA Tentative Service To IAD And Reintroduces B744

Fri Mar 11, 2005 5:16 am



Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 22):
Virtually every city east of the mississippi that DL serves nonstop from ATL has at least one flight that puts you into ATL by 9am.


Really?? I know that! Thats my whole point- what if you live West of the Mississippi?
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mymiles2go
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RE: SA Tentative Service To IAD And Reintroduces B744

Fri Mar 11, 2005 5:43 am

Despite what others are saying above - the 9AM time is the best hub time for this flight aside from the 5PM hub time. United operates 4 hub times per day - 8-9AM, 12-1PM, 5-6PM and 8-9PM. As far as I know all cities United serves connect to the 5-6PM hub time, including most international arrivals/departures. The 8-9AM hub time connects almost all east coast cities (mostly cities east of the mississippi) as well as all redeyes (LAX, SFO, etc..). The noon hub time never served the West coast cities from an arrival standpoint, but does serve quite a few West coast cities for departing flights (there were some seasonal cutbacks back in January).

Since this schedule is really all about connections to United customers, with the exception of the 5PM timeslot, this really is the best timeslot. The arrival into IAD gives customres plenty of time to connect to virtually any United city from IAD, while the departure at 9AM gives a fair majority of United customers the opportunity to connect via IAD on redeyes or early morning flights. I don't know SAA's schedules well enough to comment on the integration with thier schedules.
 
SA7700
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RE: SA Tentative Service To IAD And Reintroduces B744

Fri Mar 11, 2005 6:44 am



Quoting Mymiles2go (Reply 26):
I don't know SAA's schedules well enough to comment on the integration with their schedules.

With the JFK-JNB service stopping over in DKR, many passengers connecting to domestic or regional flights gets screwed. SA204 is scheduled for arrival at about 17h40 the following day. If you take customs and baggage claims into account & add the hike to the domestic terminal, it may very well be 19h15. The only domestic destinations still reachable that same evening would be CPT and DUR. Regionals would most probably be a no-go situation.

ATL-JNB flights is scheduled for arrival at about 10h45 the following day, leaving a far greater scope for both domestic, regional and international connections.



Quoting PA110 (Thread starter):
Tentative Schedule:

Mon/Wed/Fri/Sun
SA209 dept JNB 1840, arrv ACC 2245, dept ACC 2345, arrv IAD 0645 +1

Mon/Tue/Thu/Sat
SA208 dept IAD 0845, arrv ACC 2255, dept ACC 2355, arrv JNB 0740 +1

Strangely enough, SA209 is the current flight number for JNB-ATL!  Confused
I guess if SAA retimed the departure times for both JNB-IAD and IAD-JNB for about 2-4 hours later, they would be able to pick up a lot more connecting pax bothways. For instance JNB-IAD (20h40-08h45+1). IAD-JNB (10h45-09h40+1). Maybe there are slot issues, which we don't know about. JNB gets pretty busy with international departures from 18h00-22h00. But hey, I'm guessing.

On another note, it will be nice for many people to see SA744's back on US soil again. In the recesses of my mind I can faintly recall that a prominent member on this site, stated a while ago that the US would never see SA744's again. This once again proves that you never know for certain with SAA, they can always surprise you with unexpected moves... Albeit good or bad moves...  Smile

Rgds

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PA110
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RE: SA Tentative Service To IAD And Reintroduces B744

Fri Mar 11, 2005 7:08 am

Quoting TonyBurr (Reply 24):
The morning departure from IAD / KIAD), USA - Virginia">IAD / KIAD), USA - Virginia">IAD / KIAD), USA - Virginia">IAD is not good I think. That does not allow any connections fro other cities. I think it would be much better to have a later departure to draw more non O&D from just IAD / KIAD), USA - Virginia">IAD / KIAD), USA - Virginia">IAD / KIAD), USA - Virginia">IAD.

You might want to check your facts before making such blanket statments. the 8:45 am departure will make the following inbound connections:

UA204 from LAX arriving IAD 5:55am
UA194 from SFO arriving IAD 6:09am
UA224 from SEA arriving IAD 6:01am

These the flights will also be able to carrier connecting feeder service from PDX, EUG, RNO, LAS, SAN. Further, a substantion portion of SA's leisure traffic choose to break up the long journy by flying to the gateway the night before and then continuing the following day.

It is unfortunate that this flight will not make inbound connections from UA's largest hubs ORD & DEN.

I predict SA will have no problems filling this flight whatsoever.


Edited to clear up programming/mouseover decoding errors


[Edited 2005-03-10 23:18:26]

[Edited 2005-03-10 23:25:05]
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soups
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RE: SA Tentative Service To IAD And Reintroduces B744

Fri Mar 11, 2005 8:06 am

if this goes ahead what will happen to the current JNB-ACC A340?
will it be replaced by the 744? and if yes what will happen to abidjan service as it was operated via ACC and i believe SA sould not operate to ABJ only due to crew safety layover maybe have the LOS flight as jnb-los-abj-los-jnb?
Next destinations, Suarabaya, beirut, paris, Accra

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