WDBRR
Topic Author
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Airline Computer Res Systems

Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:03 pm

I always wondered what happens to the reservations
systems when an airline shuts down and liquidates.
Do they just trash it and all the software with it?
I think PanAm had "Panamac", Eastern had "SystemOne"
TWA "Pars", the original Braniff res system.
I remember seeing a picture of a Braniff computer
room in DFW that was taken in the late 70's.
It looked very impressive and advanced for the 70's.
a good advanced system winds up in the junk yard??
 
lincoln
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RE: Airline Computer Res Systems

Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:34 pm

Don't know about Panamac or SystemOne, however, PARS (Passanger Airline Reservation System) is still alive and kicking.

From what I understand It was a seperate company co-owned by TWA, NWA, and I beleive a few others, though I know that NWA has divested its ownership, and I beleive AA is only holding a small peice of what TWA had before the merger.

PARS is now known as Worldspan (bleck...does that actually mean anything?) and still processes the reservations and related functions for Northwest Airlines. If I remember correctly from the trip I booked via Orbitz, they use Worldspan to generate the reservations.

These days all of the major Global Distribution Systems (GDS) aka Computer Reservation Systems (CRS) are owned/operated by "independent" companies -- I.e. SABRE Holdings Group owns SABRE, Worldspan L.P. owns Worldspan, Cendant owns Apollo/Galileo (used/created by UA), so if say, UA were to cease to exist, Apollo would still be around.

Lincoln
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JGPH1A
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RE: Airline Computer Res Systems

Thu Mar 10, 2005 5:15 pm



Quoting WDBRR (Thread starter):
", Eastern had "SystemOne"

System One was bought by Amadeus and merged into Amadeus Global Core. I think some of the old System One software was retained but it has probably been re-engineered long since.

Nowadays there are relatively few carriers that have their own in-house RES systems - its only the larger carriers, or smaller carriers with REALLY old legacy systems they daren't move off of because of the trauma involved. All the rest are either hosted by other carriers, or in shared systems such as Sabre, SHARES or SITA Gabriel. Changing RES/Inventory systems is a huge deal for an airline, and can be traumatic, so it doesn't happen often.

Amadeus are in the process of migrating Grupo TACA at the moment from Sabre to Amadeus Distribution (Altea Sell) + Lufthansa Systems Inventory/DCS, the process should be complete by April. We migrate about 10-12 airlines per year onto Altea Sell distribution, with Inventories hosted in a variety of systems, AF (Alpha3), LH (LSY), IB (Resiber), SITA Gabriel, or Amadeus' own new shiny all-singing, all-dancing inventory system Altea Plan (BA, QF and DI are already migrated, AY will be migrating later this year, and SA migrating early next year).
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cragley
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RE: Airline Computer Res Systems

Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:37 pm

TG has Amadeus for bookings they create, but use the ROYAL system to deal with agent bookings an bookings not made in Amadeus. ROYAL is ver ysimilar to PARS.
 
lapper
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RE: Airline Computer Res Systems

Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:56 pm

Cendant also owns Orbitz now, so no doubt will be migrating from Worldspan over to Galileo very soon if they haven't done so already.
 
JGPH1A
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RE: Airline Computer Res Systems

Thu Mar 10, 2005 7:22 pm



Quoting Cragley (Reply 3):
TG has Amadeus for bookings they create, but use the ROYAL system to deal with agent bookings an bookings not made in Amadeus.

This is true. The same applies to SK and their 30-odd hosted carriers as well. TG and SK have the ability to "push" bookings made direct in Royal/ResAid to Amadeus if they want.

This was a set up considered necessary at the time Amadeus was founded, because SK and TG were not able (TG) or willing (SK) to fully adapt their systems to the Amadeus System User concept. Let's just say it works how it works, but we wouldn't do it again. It means for instance that SK(+hosted) and TG segments cannot be accepted as informational arrival/continuation segments in bookings received in Amadeus from other GDS's, which is a pain for Star Alliance system users.
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BestWestern
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RE: Airline Computer Res Systems

Thu Mar 10, 2005 7:55 pm

The main problem behind own-airline systems is that any software development is unique for that carrier. So, if they want to introduce self-service kiosks, online checkin, (etc ad nausium) the core mainframe work involved is not shared between other carriers, and it is very expensive, as items are to be developed from scratch.

I wonder if the SK hosting system will be one item to go with their financial crisis?
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JGPH1A
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RE: Airline Computer Res Systems

Thu Mar 10, 2005 8:11 pm



Quoting BestWestern (Reply 6):
I wonder if the SK hosting system will be one item to go with their financial crisis?

I believe (I could be wrong) that maintenance and development of SK's hosting system has been outsourced already.
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WDBRR
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RE: Airline Computer Res Systems

Thu Mar 10, 2005 8:49 pm

Does Continental use the old SystemOne system they inherited
from Eastern or do they use Amadeus?
 
JGPH1A
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RE: Airline Computer Res Systems

Thu Mar 10, 2005 8:52 pm



Quoting WDBRR (Reply 8):
Does Continental use the old SystemOne system they inherited from Eastern or do they use Amadeus?

We wish !

The "travel agent" bit of System One was the part bought by Amadeus. The "airline" bit of System One became SHARES, which CO still use, although it is now owned and operated by EDS. There is a co-host partition of SHARES called SHARES B which is used by VS, HP, MX, AM and others.
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lincoln
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RE: Airline Computer Res Systems

Thu Mar 10, 2005 9:37 pm



Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 9):
There is a co-host partition of SHARES called SHARES B which is used by VS, HP, MX, AM and others.

I thought that HP very recently (like in the past two weeks) moved from SHARES to SABRE, no?

Lincoln
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cragley
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RE: Airline Computer Res Systems

Thu Mar 10, 2005 9:46 pm

JGP: I used to work for TG and it was a pain in the ass at times cause you couldnt see the continuation of flights.

Saying that, Amadeus is such an amazing system, but very frustrating to learn if you had come from Sabre. Every entry seems to be twice as long but it is so accurate.
 
JGPH1A
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RE: Airline Computer Res Systems

Thu Mar 10, 2005 9:49 pm



Quoting Cragley (Reply 11):
Saying that, Amadeus is such an amazing system, but very frustrating to learn if you had come from Sabre. Every entry seems to be twice as long but it is so accurate.

And you don't have to figure out what the hell a Cross of Lorraine is ! I'm glad you're find 1A useful. It's true that 1A inputs are longer, but it does make the system easier to use, because there is very little ambiguity about what your are entering. Each parameter has its own defined input code, so there can be no mistakes.
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planefool1010
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RE: Airline Computer Res Systems

Thu Mar 10, 2005 11:42 pm

Does anybody know if DL systems (Deltamatic) is restrictly an in-house systems or is this an independent system?
 
electraBob
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RE: Airline Computer Res Systems

Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:18 am



Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 12):

And you don't have to figure out what the hell a Cross of Lorraine is !

I was on Worldspan for 10 years and am now using SABRE ....I still get that cross of lorraine mixed up with the end item key.  smile 

Being in the Detroit area, I sell a ton of Northwest Airlines...using SABRE to request a NWA seat can be a real adventure....you have to request the seat, end and retrieve the record, and then ignore and retrieve over and over and over (sometimes up to 20 times) before you get your stupid seat confirmed. Drives me nuts.
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NWrr
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RE: Airline Computer Res Systems

Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:27 am

Quoting ElectraBob (Reply 14):
I was on Worldspan for 10 years and am now using SABRE ....I still get that cross of lorraine mixed up with the end item key.

Being in the Detroit area, I sell a ton of Northwest Airlines...using SABRE to request a NWA seat can be a real adventure....you have to request the seat, end and retrieve the record, and then ignore and retrieve over and over and over (sometimes up to 20 times) before you get your stupid seat confirmed. Drives me nuts.

If you makes you feel any better, it drives us nuts too in reverse. There's something about the link between Worldspan and SABRE that seems to take forever, although, oddly enough, it seems to be airline specific. I get requests back from AS almost immediately, while stuff from AA or US seem to take forever. Go figure that one.

The one thing I don't like about working in NW Res is that they use ResNet, which is an overlay on Worldspan (PARS). While there are no entries to make, it does sometimes make finding what I want more difficult. Considering I came from AA as a gate agent, all I can say is give me a SABRE set any day!

(And besides, isn't that Cross of Lorraine kind of, well, interesting? I had never seen anything like that until going to work for AA)

Curious though... Can you see the NW seat map on SABRE, or do you just have to do a general SSR request and cross your fingers?

[Edited 2005-03-10 16:29:00]
Welcome to the back of the boat...the non-rev section
 
JGPH1A
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RE: Airline Computer Res Systems

Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:41 am



Quoting ElectraBob (Reply 14):
you have to request the seat, end and retrieve the record, and then ignore and retrieve over and over and over (sometimes up to 20 times) before you get your stupid seat confirmed. Drives me nuts.

Ah waiting for the TTY response - yes, ain't that fun. NW has fairly low access levels with all the CRS's except Worldspan. 1A have Access Sell with NEW, but only Direct Access seatmap (which produces a completely unreadable seatmap format !), but only standard SSR Seat request (no interactive seating). No polled availability either, so our rejected sell rate with NW is quite high.
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electraBob
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RE: Airline Computer Res Systems

Fri Mar 11, 2005 1:05 am



Quoting NWrr (Reply 15):
Curious though... Can you see the NW seat map on SABRE, or do you just have to do a general SSR request and cross your fingers?

[Edited 2005-03-10 16:29:00]

I can see the seat map....only thing is, I have to hit the change key and then move down to see the continuation of the map....can be fun if I am trying to find a seat on a NWA 744 and the only open seats are way in the back of the aircraft.

One other thing about SABRE that causes me problems is their exchange feature....you have to turn the exchange mode on, and, remember to turn it off after you have done the exchange. We have a branch office in Downtown Detroit....if I forget to turn the mode off, the poor woman downtown cannot do anything....can't store a fare, can't run a ticket etc. She has had to call me more than once and yell at me (in a nice way) to turn that stupid exchange mode off.  smile 
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lincoln
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RE: Airline Computer Res Systems

Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:42 am



Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 16):
No polled availability either, so our rejected sell rate with NW is quite high.

Sorry to be the outsider here to ask, but what the heck, CRS/GDSes are probably the most interesting part of commercial avaiation to me, so I'll ask anyways:

Can you distill that to something I could understand, please?

Thanks Big grin

Lincoln
[Yeah, I'm one of those people who would kill for access to my raw PNR, let alone direct Sabre/Amadeus/Worldspan/et. al.]
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PA110
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RE: Airline Computer Res Systems

Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:52 am



Quoting Cragley (Reply 11):
Saying that, Amadeus is such an amazing system, but very frustrating to learn if you had come from Sabre. Every entry seems to be twice as long but it is so accurate.

Having just recently converted from Sabre to Amadeus, I admit it was a little rough - especially on the ticketing/invoicing side. However, Amadeus is ultimately a much better system than Sabre. A few extra keystrokes is a small price to pay for so much added functionality
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WDBRR
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RE: Airline Computer Res Systems

Fri Mar 11, 2005 10:30 am

One more question....is the formats and commands the same on Shares as the old SystemOne? LA$R ? $EWRFLL1APR ?
 
UA772IAD
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RE: Airline Computer Res Systems

Fri Mar 11, 2005 10:44 am

My friend who is a travel agent said that SABRE was desinged for Delta, but is more commonly used by United. However, Travel agencies can use any of the variety of programs. As for the airlines themselves, I haven't a clue. I do remember once a UA gate agent in RNO showed me how to check in, and there's something called the "pillow" key... anyone know what this is?

All I know is that they are very complicated systems, and job training at airlines for customer service and representative positions can take usually 6 weeks to complete (with a variety of tests to weed out those who are "weak")
 
DAYGS
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RE: Airline Computer Res Systems

Fri Mar 11, 2005 11:56 am

Quoting UA772IAD (Reply 21):
My friend who is a travel agent said that SABRE was desinged for Delta

SABRE was created for/by AA...not DL. EDS now operates the system.
 
searpqx
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RE: Airline Computer Res Systems

Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:02 pm

Quoting UA772IAD (Reply 21):
My friend who is a travel agent said that SABRE was designed for Delta, but is more commonly used by United.

You might advise your friend to check his facts. SABRE was built by IBM for American, starting in the late 50s. The idea to build a system came about after an encounter between AA Chairman C.R. Smith and a senior IBM Salesman on an AA flight. It was custom built for AA and wasn't marketed to other airlines until the 70s. United built and still uses the Apollo system (unless Apollo has been completely merged into Galileo?).

I've worked on all of the original US based systems, including (way back when) DATAS, SODA (System One's original name) and PARS. I left the CRS side of the industry just as Amadeus was coming into its own, so other than some demos I've never had an opportunity to deal with it. I still go nuts when I book on-line, knowing how much information is being kept from me, and how much quicker I could find what I want and make the booking if I could just get at the native application. I'm still cussing SABRE for cutting off the Commercial SABRE w/ Bypass application.

What is the central processor language for Amadeus?

Duane
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lincoln
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RE: Airline Computer Res Systems

Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:08 pm

Quoting UA772IAD (Reply 21):
My friend who is a travel agent said that SABRE was desinged for Delta, but is more commonly used by United.

Woha... SABRE (Semi-Automated Business Research Environment), as mentioned was designed, built, and for a long time owned by American...when American's president and IBM's president ended up next to each other on a flight and got to talking.

United has absoultely nothing to do with SABRE... United lives in Apollo/Amadaeus, which United designed, built, and for a long time owned.

I'd still love to have someone explain what JGPH1A meant by "No polled availability either, so our rejected sell rate with NW is quite high" in laymans terms.

Lincoln
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hawaiian717
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RE: Airline Computer Res Systems

Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:16 pm

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 10):
I thought that HP very recently (like in the past two weeks) moved from SHARES to SABRE, no?

No. That was Frontier that just made the move, not America West.

Quoting ElectraBob (Reply 14):
Being in the Detroit area, I sell a ton of Northwest Airlines...using SABRE to request a NWA seat can be a real adventure....you have to request the seat, end and retrieve the record, and then ignore and retrieve over and over and over (sometimes up to 20 times) before you get your stupid seat confirmed. Drives me nuts.

I don't remember having these isses with NW on Apollo. It does sound like what we had to deal with to sell AirTran though.

David / ABQ
 
Goldenshield
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RE: Airline Computer Res Systems

Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:29 pm

Working cargo was no different. These is SHARES for CO, which uses basically the same (if worded different) entry strings as both the former TWA system, and Alaska's SITA. UA uses UNIMATIC, which is basically a series of very poorly designed shells. NW uses a shell system, but is more rigid in nature (you can't edit the shell and screw up the format.) Up until a couple years ago, DL used DELTAMATIC for their cargo system, which was command line driven, like the first three mentioned. This was replaced by Vision.

However, having used SHARES, Deltamatic, and APOLLO, I like it's ease of use for basic selling, such as building non-rev PNR's.
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globetrekker
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RE: Airline Computer Res Systems

Fri Mar 11, 2005 1:29 pm

I wonder if and when my employer (KLM) will switch from CORDA/CODECO to Amadeus/Gaetan, since AF uses these systems. At AMS selected reservation/ticketing agents are trained in Amadeus and at the KLM ticket office at Schiphol they have a seperate counter for AF related ticketing etc.
Check-in is done in KLM's CODECO, but the info is somehow transferred to AF's Gaetan.

And if KLM's switches, what will become of its systems and the other airlines that make use of it?

Anyone knows?

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greenguy01
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RE: Airline Computer Res Systems

Fri Mar 11, 2005 1:37 pm

Don't forget about Open Skies by Navitaire. A number of airlines use this res system.
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searpqx
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RE: Airline Computer Res Systems

Fri Mar 11, 2005 4:12 pm

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 24):
I'd still love to have someone explain what JGPH1A meant by "No polled availability either, so our rejected sell rate with NW is quite high" in laymans terms.

In short - polled availability means that the polling system (in this case Amadeus) sends a message to the airline asking for an update on availability. Depending on how frequently that's done you can keep the availability displayed in the GDS in pretty good synch with the actual availability stored in the airlines system. If you don't have that feature, and don't have the ability to look at the live availability in the host system, then you rely on periodic messages from the host system (NW) to the GDS to update availability. In that situation it's not uncommon for the GDS to show seats available, but since the last update they've been sold, so when an agent goes to sell one, there is no actual inventory, so the airline rejects the sale. In the old days there were certain carriers that after you sold the seat and before you issued the ticket, you either called to confirm they had the reservation or you waited at least 12 hours to make sure they didn't reject it.
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JGPH1A
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RE: Airline Computer Res Systems

Fri Mar 11, 2005 5:20 pm

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 18):
Sorry to be the outsider here to ask, but what the heck, CRS/GDSes are probably the most interesting part of commercial avaiation to me, so I'll ask anyways:

Can you distill that to something I could understand, please?

Searpqx above just gave a great response - he's spot on, although there are 2 ways to get a real-time availability status from an airline. One is polling, where an industry standard message is transmitted from the requesting system to the airline inventory, and the airline responds. In this scenario, the GDS selects the flights and routes to be used for the requested city pair, and simply sends the flights it wants availability for in the message. The other is for the agent to use Direct Access, which is a bit like "dropping into" the airlines res system and requesting availability. In this scenario, the GDS simply transmits the requested date and city pair to the airline, the airline selects the flights and routes it wants to return, along with availability, and sends the whole lot back to the requesting system, which reformats the response into a standard availability display.

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 23):
United built and still uses the Apollo system (unless Apollo has been completely merged into Galileo?).

Apollo and Galileo have a shared core machine (in Denver), but they do still have different software I believe. It's a wierd setup.

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 23):
What is the central processor language for Amadeus?

Amadeus was originally written in TPF (C370 Assembler) and was very loosely based on System One (very loosely !). It was essentially a total do-over of System One, with a lot of the good functionality from the old Unisys USAS RES system incorporated (eg. PNR element numbering, 2 character input codes etc) because our founder airlines (SK, IB, AF, LH) all were on USAS RES systems at the time, and wanted the new system to retain some familiarity.
A huge amount of Amadeus has been re-engineered since then onto UNIX Open Back-end Architecture written in C and C++, all the Cars, Hotels, Ferry, Cruises etc is already on OBE, quite a lot of PNR has moved onto OBE, and we are in the process of re-engineering Air Availability to OBE as well.

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 24):
United has absoultely nothing to do with SABRE... United lives in Apollo/Amadaeus

Not Apollo/Amadeus - Apollo/Galileo.

Quoting GlobeTrekker (Reply 27):
I wonder if and when my employer (KLM) will switch from CORDA/CODECO to Amadeus/Gaetan

The idea is for KLM to move their distribution/Res to Amadeus while retaining inventory and DCS in CORDA/CODECO. This will give KL a common Res and distribution platform with AF (and 150 other airlines !), with a common PNR and all that goes with it. I guess the decision on a joint inventory/DCS system still has to be made, to see whether KL will move to Alpha3/Gaetan or they will both move to a new system such as Altea Plan/Fly.
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cragley
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RE: Airline Computer Res Systems

Fri Mar 11, 2005 9:16 pm

Sorry guys, SIMULTANEOUS CHANGES!!!
 
NWrr
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RE: Airline Computer Res Systems

Fri Mar 11, 2005 10:25 pm

LOL!

That drives me up the wall, especially because I'm doing something with a codeshare itin. When I ER (End & Retrieve) the record, if I don't IR (Ignore & Retrieve) right away, I usually get simuled.  banghead  Then I get to start all over again.
Welcome to the back of the boat...the non-rev section
 
JGPH1A
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RE: Airline Computer Res Systems

Fri Mar 11, 2005 10:28 pm

Quoting NWrr (Reply 32):
That drives me up the wall, especially because I'm doing something with a codeshare itin. When I ER (End & Retrieve) the record, if I don't IR (Ignore & Retrieve) right away, I usually get simuled. Then I get to start all over again.

Yup - the joys of non-interactive Record Locator return  Smile Gets you EVERY time. That or having the schedules out of synch and the segment getting confirmed back with TK and different times. It happens on all systems, there's not a lot you can do about it.
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BestWestern
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RE: Airline Computer Res Systems

Fri Mar 11, 2005 10:58 pm

Finally a discussion where people see the value of the GDS - If we could now only get two of them to merge - eh.... JPGH!

When a carrier is hosted on one of the big four Sabre, Amadeus, Worldspan, EDS- things are OK - its when they are hosted on private systems things go all over the place - Airlines like Korean come to mind! Getting a usable seatmap from Korean is like pulluing teeth! As for Thai - those 747 seat maps always look wrong - but its due to the way they config the downstairs J class cabin! Aisle and Wall seat - oh can I have a wall seat please!

Who hosts Air Tahiti? I presume its 1A??? Wouldnt mind someone checking some loads for me... Can I do seat assignments in advance?
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JGPH1A
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RE: Airline Computer Res Systems

Fri Mar 11, 2005 11:44 pm

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 34):
Who hosts Air Tahiti? I presume its 1A???

TN is hosted in Sabre (bizarrely enough !) and VT is too, I think. Odd but true. There are rumours that TN might move to 1A/AF but we'll see.

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 34):
If we could now only get two of them to merge - eh.... JPGH!

Wouldn't that be good ! Mind you, now that 1A has been Leveraged Buyed Out (gr.?) who knows what will happen. Apparently our scum sucking predator leeches esteemed venture capitalists are keen on mergers and acquisitions as a way to increase the value of their asset, and 1P would be a prime target ! So watch out worlds...  Smile
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LRGT
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RE: Airline Computer Res Systems

Sat Mar 12, 2005 4:55 am

How about TASAR (Technologically Advanced Spirit Airlines Reservations)?

This system just came out. I heard they built it themselves for a one-time cost of $200,000. Makes other airlines who pay $10-80 Million/year for INFERIOR systems pretty stupid! It amazes me that these systems can charge their clients so much for a SHARED system!

It looks like the TASAR system does everything including GDS reservaitons and online check-in without any monthly rental costs

A previous post mentioned Navitire. This is used by large discounts such as Airtran, Jetblue, and Ryanair. Dave Neilman created it!!! It's minimum monthyl charger per carrier is $27,000 which is actualyl quite good compared to the old legacy systems. Smaller discounts such as USA3000 and Hooters use Radixx. There is also Amelia.RES (by Intelisys) which is for very small companies (the same market as Radixx is aimed at).
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searpqx
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RE: Airline Computer Res Systems

Sat Mar 12, 2005 8:23 am

Thanks for the info JGPH1A - I was involved in the tale end of the discussions between SABRE and Amadeus, just before the partnership was called off, and I thought I remembered the original code was TPF (like SABRE). Wasn't the original contract to build 1A won by SystemOne (thus the original similarities)?

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 34):
its when they are hosted on private systems things go all over the place - Airlines like Korean come to mind!

How true - when Pro Air (P9) first started accepting res over SABRE, Apollo and Worldspan the booking teletype messages from the three systems actually came into P9's corporate e-mail system, sell requests were sent as NN and were routed to the e-mail inbox of one of the res supervisors. They were manually entered into their res system, then the confirmation was sent back by the same route, generating a KK in the GDS. It was actually a fairly creative way to accommodate GDS bookings w/o spending a dime to adapt their system, but needless to say, the process left plenty of opportunity for error.
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
 
v jet
Posts: 757
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 9:04 am

RE: Airline Computer Res Systems

Sat Mar 12, 2005 11:14 am

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 2):
We migrate about 10-12 airlines per year onto Altea Sell distribution, with Inventories hosted in a variety of systems, AF (Alpha3), LH (LSY), IB (Resiber), SITA Gabriel, or Amadeus' own new shiny all-singing, all-dancing inventory system Altea Plan (BA, QF and DI are already migrated, AY will be migrating later this year, and SA migrating early next year).

From an end users point of view I wouldn't exactly call Altea Plan all singing all dancing just yet!
 
airtran737
Posts: 3222
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 3:47 am

RE: Airline Computer Res Systems

Sat Mar 12, 2005 11:17 am

I love my Openskies. It's idiot proof. The commands are simple, and the system can be learned in less that a business week.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
GuyBetsy1
Posts: 807
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2001 4:00 am

RE: Airline Computer Res Systems

Sat Mar 12, 2005 4:29 pm

Here's an interesting fact.... ABACUS, which is founded by Singapore Airlines and Cathay Pacific in 1988 is now co-owned by more than 10 different airlines regionally in Asia-Pacific. The asian CRS was initially hosted by Worldspan with pricing transactions performed by SITA, suddenly jumped ship to SABRE in 1998. SABRE now hosts ABACUS with a 25% ownership whilst ABACUS invests 49% of SABRE PACIFIC. Worldspan sued ABACUS and SABRE and both reached an undisclosed out-of-court settlement sometime in 2000 I think.

Even though some of the functions mirror SABRE, ABACUS has their own set of transactions unique to itself. For one, autopriced fares are not guaranteed by the CRS. Which is ridiculous as a representative told me once that SABRE guarantees its fare quotes to ABACUS yet the latter doesn't pass the guarantee on to its customers.

Anyway, to read more about this: http://www.abacus.com.sg/about_us/accolades.htm
 
lincoln
Posts: 3133
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 11:22 pm

RE: Airline Computer Res Systems

Sun Mar 13, 2005 4:19 am

Quoting Hawaiian717 (Reply 25):
No. That was Frontier that just made the move, not America West.

Huh, I wonder why I thought it was HP. I stand corrected.

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 29):

Excellent explanation, thank you!

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 30):
Not Apollo/Amadeus - Apollo/Galileo

Gahh... Thanks for pointing that out (and thanks for the tag-on explanation of Polled Availability)...Brain simply not fully engaged when I wrote that (I did get it right in my original reply)

One more question for all... Where exactly does CO live? I thought it was Amadeus, but trying to pull up the PNR for my first trip on CO using the Amadeus PNR viewer on the web yields nothing.

I love this thread, and thanks again for ALL of the information!

Lincoln
CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
 
LRGT
Posts: 675
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2004 12:29 pm

RE: Airline Computer Res Systems

Sun Mar 13, 2005 6:20 am

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 37):
How true - when Pro Air (P9) first started accepting res over SABRE, Apollo and Worldspan the booking teletype messages from the three systems actually came into P9's corporate e-mail system, sell requests were sent as NN and were routed to the e-mail inbox of one of the res supervisors. They were manually entered into their res system, then the confirmation was sent back by the same route, generating a KK in the GDS. It was actually a fairly creative way to accommodate GDS bookings w/o spending a dime to adapt their system, but needless to say, the process left plenty of opportunity for error.

There are actually some small airlines that still do this. The way the messages get converted to email is by ARINC's "AviNet Mail" program. I am wondering if Spirit used to do this before TASAR came out.

Thanks too for the thread!
Don't bring up the NW DC9's unless you have to!
 
cragley
Posts: 391
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2004 6:09 pm

RE: Airline Computer Res Systems

Sun Mar 13, 2005 9:38 pm

Ok here is a weird one for you.

One time when I was at TG I was going through dupe PNR's (2 agents make the same booking). One was on Sabre and the other was on Galileo. So i sent a message to both asking for ticket numbers or I would cxl. In the end, some guy at BKK control went through the PNR and accidently merged both PNRS into one. So the Sabre booking was cxl when it should have been the galileo res. Confusing, but it happens.

Teletype rejects.

Also for those that dont know, in Australia (not sure about the rest of the world) the agents at check in can not determine booking class, only the class of travel. So you can have a V class ticket issued and an agent can rebook you in Y and when you get to the airport, you will show as having a reservation and will still be boarded. Its not until after you have travelled that it is discovered. Then it goes back to the agent that changed the booking for a 'please explain'.

This also happend when agents would waitlist a lower class and hold a confirmed Y. If the WL didnt clear, the pax would still travel.

HUGE loophole in revenue.
 
Leskova
Posts: 5547
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:39 pm

RE: Airline Computer Res Systems

Sun Mar 13, 2005 10:03 pm

The most annoying thing that I see - unfortunately - quite regularly is the malfunctioning of the gateways inbetween the systems...

One example that I had just last week was for a Varig booking that was queued to us (I work for a consolidator in ticketing) for issuing the ticket, the booking was made in Sabre (with RG's PNR being in Amadeus).

Once the PNR arrived on our queue, our ticketing systems prepared a passive PNR with all the ticketing infos in it - and then something happened...

The passive PNR was misunderstood by either something in Sabre, Amadeus or inbetween, because - even though Sabre didn't show an "airline filekey" in the passive PNR, RG suddenly had two active bookings for the same passenger in AMA - and something like 24 hours before the passenger was supposed to leave, they suddenly cancelled parts of both PNRs - two segments in the agency's booking, and two in our passive PNR.

And, obviously, it was Friday, past 7pm when they called - and RG's office here in FRA is usually not even available until 6pm... and the airline was still sending messages informing the agency that their PNR would be cancelled before 9am the next morning.

A great way to begin the weekend...

Fortunately, I was able to reach someone at RG's airport office, who then gave me the number of someone who was able to clarify the whole situation - in the end, the booking stayed as two HK and two HX segments in the agency's PNR, and two GK and two NO segments in our passive PNR, with the HK and GK segments showing as confirmed active segments in RG's PNR.

Now... if we could only get the different GDSs to actually calculate the same taxes for identical flights, that'd be great - but after months of trying, we still have an airline we work with quite a bit (EK), who's fuel surcharge (included in the taxes as YQ-tax) get's misquoted in one of the four systems we work with...
Smile - it confuses people!
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: Airline Computer Res Systems

Mon Mar 14, 2005 6:34 pm

Quoting V Jet (Reply 38):
From an end users point of view I wouldn't exactly call Altea Plan all singing all dancing just yet!

Shhhh ! Don't TELL them ! It's getting there though - considering it the first truly fully functional new O&D-based inventory system that's been developed from scratch in the last 25 years, it's amazing that it has been deployed this fast by 2 major airlines (and one little one). As with all new systems, it has its teething troubles, but these well be ironed out with time.

Quoting Leskova (Reply 44):
The passive PNR was misunderstood by either something in Sabre, Amadeus or inbetween, because - even though Sabre didn't show an "airline filekey" in the passive PNR, RG suddenly had two active bookings for the same passenger in AMA

There must be a problem with the way 1S is communicating the passive to RG. You can't create Passive PNR's on Amadeus System User airlines in Amadeus, the passive notification message will locate the real PNR and flag the segments in PNR History as "passived" - it won't change the status of the active segment in the PNR, as only the history is updated, but it will prevent a second passive notification from being accepted on the same active segment.
All passive segment notification messages are also queue placed to the airline for verification, I believe RG run a robotic application to check them, I'm not sure what it does though. Were both PNR's flagged as owned by HDQ1S ?
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
TKMCE
Posts: 819
Joined: Thu May 16, 2002 12:18 pm

RE: Airline Computer Res Systems

Mon Mar 14, 2005 11:01 pm

The most annoying thing that I see - unfortunately - quite regularly is the malfunctioning of the gateways inbetween the systems...

***********

Dot tell me, atleast for us friday evenings were OK, being where we were in India, some airline office in UK or US atleast could be located !

But the best thing was when Amadeus central help desk decided to dump their no rec handling to local offices ! Fat lot of good it did whern some one calls up at 6 PM on a Friday saying there is a IB no rec for Sunday! Earlier atleast we could rely on the guys in NCE or MIA to check it out! Now .forget it!

And best part was - "we(the amadeus honchos) are not able to action a norec without a minimum of 24 hours notice "! Well intentioned - but from my experience as much as 80% of the no recs are found out within the 24 hour period!


Sabre always had the best system - the record locator always used to appear next to each segment on the itineray! Very useful to immediately recognise whether a particular segment alone was a no rec. If I remeber Amadeus finally introduced a variation of it an year back! About time!

Grumbles aside, I loved the time working with Amadeus. May be I should go back there! The pull is still too strong !
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: Airline Computer Res Systems

Tue Mar 15, 2005 1:53 am

Quoting TKMCE (Reply 46):
Sabre always had the best system - the record locator always used to appear next to each segment on the itineray! Very useful to immediately recognise whether a particular segment alone was a no rec. If I remeber Amadeus finally introduced a variation of it an year back! About time!

I worked on the new Extended Itinerary PNR display to include RLOCs on the segment line (a piece of work I'm particularly proud of !) - it is good to have the RLOC's in the prime display. FYI though, 1A have many more realtime Access Sell / Record Return agreements with airlines than Sabre does - 316. We have RLOC return with over 400 airlines in total.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
LRGT
Posts: 675
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2004 12:29 pm

RE: Airline Computer Res Systems

Tue Mar 15, 2005 3:24 am

Quoting Cragley (Reply 43):
Also for those that dont know, in Australia (not sure about the rest of the world) the agents at check in can not determine booking class, only the class of travel. So you can have a V class ticket issued and an agent can rebook you in Y and when you get to the airport, you will show as having a reservation and will still be boarded. Its not until after you have travelled that it is discovered. Then it goes back to the agent that changed the booking for a 'please explain'.

This also happend when agents would waitlist a lower class and hold a confirmed Y. If the WL didnt clear, the pax would still travel.

HUGE loophole in revenue.

This sounds interesting, but I don't understand. Could you explain it in a little more detail???
Don't bring up the NW DC9's unless you have to!
 
whlinder
Posts: 58
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2000 12:47 am

RE: Airline Computer Res Systems

Tue Mar 15, 2005 3:51 am

I've read/heard some info on a new, 'alternative' GDS called G2/Switchworks. What is the deal with them? How is their system compared to the big 4 GDS?

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