jdwfloyd
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Airbus Could Be Building A Plant At PIT

Thu Mar 10, 2005 2:31 pm

Check out this article. Sad for Boeing if Airbus gets the tanker contract, but great for whoever gets the plant.
http://www.timesonline.com/site/news...=2305&PAG=461&dept_id=478569&rfi=6
 
ntspelich
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RE: Airbus Could Be Building A Plant At PIT

Thu Mar 10, 2005 4:37 pm

Well, that may be all and good, but I can't help but think that PIT should try to lure WN into opening an east coast mx base there. Maybe it's just me, but the potential for it is amazing, especially if US goes under. The facilities exist, plus the airport has room to expand, unlike BWI or PHL.

And, and I know that I'm going to catch holy hell for this, Airbus should stay in Europe, Boeing in America, Embraer in Brazil, etc.

NTS
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Starlionblue
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RE: Airbus Could Be Building A Plant At PIT

Thu Mar 10, 2005 4:38 pm



Quoting Ntspelich (Reply 1):
And, and I know that I'm going to catch holy hell for this, Airbus should stay in Europe, Boeing in America, Embraer in Brazil, etc.

Yes you are going to catch hell for it  Wink

While I can sort of understand the sentiment, inhabitants of Europe AND the USA will, on the whole, be better off with free movement of capital and labor. This sort of competition is healthy. Trade barriers are not.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
jdwfloyd
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RE: Airbus Could Be Building A Plant At PIT

Thu Mar 10, 2005 5:00 pm

We've got enough room here for all of the majors to build mx base here if they ever wanted to.
 
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solnabo
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RE: Airbus Could Be Building A Plant At PIT

Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:41 pm

What I understand from CNBC Europe something´s cooking at EADS and the Tanker deal..........

Time will tell

Micke//SE  Cool
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ozglobal
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RE: Airbus Could Be Building A Plant At PIT

Thu Mar 10, 2005 9:43 pm



Quoting Ntspelich (Reply 1):
And, and I know that I'm going to catch holy hell for this, Airbus should stay in Europe, Boeing in America, Embraer in Brazil, etc.

NTS

Why? Xenophobia?

Are you going to ask Ford and GM to pull out of Europe, Asia, Australia and tell European-owned Chrysler to 'nick-off' to the other side of the pond too?
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
 
bennett123
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RE: Airbus Could Be Building A Plant At PIT

Thu Mar 10, 2005 11:09 pm

Why not Airbus and WN at PIT.
 
DAYflyer
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RE: Airbus Could Be Building A Plant At PIT

Thu Mar 10, 2005 11:42 pm



Quoting Ntspelich (Reply 1):
And, and I know that I'm going to catch holy hell for this, Airbus should stay in Europe, Boeing in America, Embraer in Brazil, etc

If it means that Lockheed, Northrup or some other American company gets in on the airframe construction and it creates high paying/high tech jobs in America, then fine. It would be like the Boeing-BAE tanker bid that they did in the UK last year that recently failed.

If Boeing has lost it, it is their own stupid fault.  ashamed 
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Revelation
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RE: Airbus Could Be Building A Plant At PIT

Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:12 am

I don't think the tanker deal will happen at all.

Before 9/11, USAF was saying there was no need to replace the tankers till 2040.

After 9/11, with the funky leasing deal, USAF found they could get the tankers without paying for them up front, and were all for that. And of course the ones in Congress driving the deal were from Washington state, home of Boeing. Win-win for everyone but the taxpayers.

Now that Boeing has gotten caught with its hand in the cookie jar, and there's almost no chance of a leasing deal getting through Congress, I think we'll see the USAF say that they don't need tankers for quite a while yet, at least till they have both F-22 and F-35 programs fully funded.

Just MHO.
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NWADC9
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RE: Airbus Could Be Building A Plant At PIT

Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:55 am

More jobs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Big grin
I hope they put it near my house Wink
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LifelinerOne
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RE: Airbus Could Be Building A Plant At PIT

Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:23 am



Quoting NWADC9 (Reply 9):
More jobs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Big grin

That's a good attitude!!

Cheers!
Only Those Who Sleep Don't Make Mistakes
 
Sinlock
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RE: Airbus Could Be Building A Plant At PIT

Fri Mar 11, 2005 4:17 am

And, and I know that I'm going to catch holy hell for this, Airbus should stay in Europe, Boeing in America, Embraer in Brazil, etc.

Too late on that, The Embraer plant in Jacksonville FL is a done deal, where they will be happly finishing E-145s for the US ARMY.
 
meister808
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RE: Airbus Could Be Building A Plant At PIT

Fri Mar 11, 2005 4:22 am

What is the army using E145s for?

-Meister
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Flaps
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RE: Airbus Could Be Building A Plant At PIT

Fri Mar 11, 2005 4:27 am

Allegheny County is already working on trying to woo WN on the maintenance base. That along with every other aviation maintenance company on the planet with more than one wrench in their toolbox. I doubt that EADS will ever get much of the tanker deal when something gets put together but they may well get some portion. In any case, Im all for anything that benefits the region. Im also for anything that breaks down all the xenophobia that seems to be sprouting up everywhere these days. Large multinationals are good for helping to break down both trade barriers and and to a lesser degree some of the rampant nationalism we see.
 
AA7573E
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RE: Airbus Could Be Building A Plant At PIT

Fri Mar 11, 2005 4:28 am

The F22 and F35 will never be fully funded. One of them will get cut, and it will likely be the F22.

The most taxed airframes in the inventory right now are the tanker force, perhaps the rotary wing fleets are a close second. I would look for the tanker deal to happen, far in advance of any major funding for full rate production of the F35.
See you up front!
 
ntspelich
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RE: Airbus Could Be Building A Plant At PIT

Fri Mar 11, 2005 4:44 am



Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 5):
Why? Xenophobia?

No, not at all. In fact, if you knew me you'd know that I'm probably the farthest thing from a xenophobe. And I'm by no means swept up in the river of nationalism that seems to be going across America.

I've never gotten into the whole A v B thing, and I'm not trying to get into here. I just think that market segmentation is a good thing. Maybe I fear that if they're all producing within the same borders that there will be no variation in a/c anymore. I mean, it's not like when McD and Boeing were working side by side, one making 3-holers and then other 4. That was differentiating your product. Other than the 744/380 dispute over what airlines want, I dont' see too much different between them, and am afraid that soon it'll be hard to tell the difference.
United 717 heavy, you're facing the wrong way. Any chance you can powerback to get off of my deice pad?
 
Sinlock
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RE: Airbus Could Be Building A Plant At PIT

Fri Mar 11, 2005 5:17 am



Quoting Meister808 (Reply 12):
What is the army using E145s for?

Sorry I should have been more detailed.

http://mediamanager.embraer.com.br/e...lista.asp?id=240&cat_nome=Defense%

From Embraer.com........


8/3/2004
EMBRAER ERJ 145 PLATFORM SELECTED AS PART OF WINNING BID ON U.S. ARMY AERIAL COMMON SENSOR PROGRAM

Embraer, part of the Lockheed Martin team, will provide its ERJ 145 platform for the U.S. Army’s next-generation battlefield surveillance system called Aerial Common Sensor (ACS) under a Systems Development and Demonstration (SDD) contract awarded yesterday.
Under the US$879 million SDD contract, the team will deliver five certified, mission ready airborne ISR systems, with initial testing planned for 2006. The balance of the effort would be performed under a follow-on low rate initial production contract anticipated in 2007, followed by a full rate production contract in 2009. The full contract has a potential value for the Lockheed Martin team of more than US$7 billion over the life of the expected 20-year program.

“The U.S. Army has chosen a system, and an airframe, that will provide unmatched capability, economics, performance and growth – all of which will directly enhance the performance of U.S. Army ground forces in any part of the world they may deploy,” said Embraer President and CEO Maurício Botelho.“With more than 800 units in operation and 5.5 million of in-flight hours, the well matured ERJ 145 platform has accumulated impressive reliability, dispatch, and safety records, which, combined with its low acquisition and operating costs, make it especially attractive for special applications like the ACS Program. Embraer is very excited to be a part of this team, and also to be moving forward with our plans for opening a new assembly facility in Jacksonville.”


.......................................................................................................

8/23/2004

Embraer today broke ground on a new aircraft assembly facility at Cecil Commerce Center, with Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, and Jacksonville Mayor John Peyton among other distinguished guests manning ceremonial shovels with Embraer President and CEO Maurício Botelho. The facility, scheduled for completion in 2005, will be dedicated to supporting U.S. defense and homeland security programs.

“In 2004, Embraer celebrates its 35th anniversary and the first 25 years of continuous presence in the United States,” said Maurício Botelho. “It is of great relevance that also in 2004, we start to build our Jacksonville facility, which will bring new, high-technology jobs to the local community, and clearly attest to our long-term commitment to satisfying the needs of U.S. defense and homeland security programs with highly efficient, reliable and low cost products. With this new investment, Embraer is proud to strengthen its presence in the great state of Florida.”

“Embraer has been a strong corporate citizen for over 25 years in Florida, and today's groundbreaking at Cecil Commerce Center solidifies their commitment to our state well into the future,” said Governor Bush. “In selecting Florida, Embraer clearly understands the benefits offered by our pro-business climate and highly skilled workforce - assets it will need to successfully manufacture its next generation airborne surveillance systems. I applaud the entire Florida team on its win of the Aerial Common Sensor contract, and thank Embraer, the U.S. Army, and the Department of Defense for their commitment to assist in the reuse of Cecil Field.”

“We are delighted to have Embraer in Jacksonville, and look forward to a long-term relationship as the company continues to grow and expand,” said Jacksonville Mayor John Peyton.

The Embraer facility, with some 71,000 square feet of shop and office space, will be used to assemble aircraft based on the company’s well matured and reliable ERJ 145 regional jet platform. The first project slated for the new building is the U.S. Army’s Aerial Common Sensor program, a next-generation battlefield surveillance system.

Embraer is part of the Lockheed Martin team recently chosen by the Army to develop the ACS system. Lockheed Martin and its partners, including L-3 Communications, Harris Corp., Argon Engineering, General Dynamics, BAE Systems, and Raytheon, were awarded the initial $879 million System Development and Demonstration contract on August 2. Harris Corp. also has its corporate headquarters in Florida.

With follow-on production contracts, the program should reach 38 aircraft for the Army and be worth more than $7 billion to the team. The U.S. Navy has also indicated its commitment to the ACS system as an EP-3 replacement, which would add 19 aircraft to the program.

Reynolds, Smith and Hills architects of Jacksonville are designing the new facility, located on a 40-acre site at Cecil Commerce Center. The Jacksonville Airport Authority will choose a general contractor after an open bidding process. The facility will be ready to open late next year.

Partners for the Embraer project include the State of Florida, the Jacksonville Airport Authority, the Jacksonville Economic Development Commission, and the City of Jacksonville.
 
srbmod
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RE: Airbus Could Be Building A Plant At PIT

Fri Mar 11, 2005 6:56 am

Well considering the several days old strike at the Lockheed-Martin plant @ KMGE, there has been rumors of the production line of the F/A-22 being moved to another L-M plant, and in light of the rumors of the DoD cutting the number of C-130s and F/A-22s, the lease L-M has with the USAF on the plant could be cancelled, leaving a sizable workforce and a huge factory empty. If this comes to pass, the plant could be a good location for EADS to take over to build the tanker version of the A-330.
 
252MKR
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RE: Airbus Could Be Building A Plant At PIT

Fri Mar 11, 2005 8:19 am

I say we give the tanker program to the Airbus group. The PIT geography needs jobs. Also, the U.S. needs to be kooler to Europe, if we want better relations and "pull-though" for strategic endeavors.

Between this deal, the presidential helos, and Condie Rice's speech at Sciences Po' in Paris--we are making a good start. I would not be surprised to see France start helping us out where we need it (maybe not publicly though).

With all of the Boeing orders this year relative to Airbus--B should not be hurting.
"...If I'm here, and you're here--doesn't that make it our time?" Jeff Spicoli
 
ozglobal
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RE: Airbus Could Be Building A Plant At PIT

Fri Mar 11, 2005 9:45 am

Airbus, and for that matter Boeing, have already got 'plants' of sorts on each other's turf: a huge proportion of the A380 for example is assembled from parts made in the US and likewise Boeings from European parts. The plants are just those of subcontractors rather than the manufacturer itself.
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
 
Alias1024
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RE: Airbus Could Be Building A Plant At PIT

Fri Mar 11, 2005 10:04 am

PIT bidding for this factory isn't a surprise. Everyone else has been trying to get it too. I think I remember reading that they had received proposals from over 30 states.

It will probably be a moot point anyway. I still think Boeing is going to get the contract.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
L-188
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RE: Airbus Could Be Building A Plant At PIT

Fri Mar 11, 2005 10:09 am

This wouldn't be the same plant that Spokane, Wa is trying to land?
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georgiabill
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RE: Airbus Could Be Building A Plant At PIT

Fri Mar 11, 2005 10:09 am

A friend of mine reported the Manchester Union Leader( New Hampshires largest paper)reported that the former United States Airforce Base at Newmarket(Known as Pease AFB)management authority was talking with airbus about using the facility as their North American base.Although the authority managing the facilty has hyped various other aviation hopes nothing has ever materialized
 
isitsafenow
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RE: Airbus Could Be Building A Plant At PIT

Fri Mar 11, 2005 10:41 am

He's my two cents.
Lets have the US Congress ok the bill to spend your money and mine with another foreign company. We are doing it now at a record pace so why not with US Military airplanes? The USA has a serious problem with outsourcing work overseas. We are no longer a manufacturing leader. Those days are gone and will not return. Steel is imported, 57 percent of our motor vehicles not counting motorcycles are imported. Clothing is as we Americans know is from everyplace but the USA. I saw on TV tonight China imported 18 million T-Shirts to the USA in January alone. Last year was less then one million for the same month. Send a letter or E mail to your congressman and urge him/her to give the tanker contract to Airbus.....
How friggin stupid can we Americans be?
safe
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gigneil
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RE: Airbus Could Be Building A Plant At PIT

Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:49 pm

Its the fault of manufacturers, not Congress.


N
 
jdwfloyd
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RE: Airbus Could Be Building A Plant At PIT

Fri Mar 11, 2005 1:42 pm

So where do you think PIT stands in the running?
 
airgeek12
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RE: Airbus Could Be Building A Plant At PIT

Fri Mar 11, 2005 2:21 pm

I think Boeing will get the contract. If it's government- boeing's almost sure to get it! Airbus is only known for it's planes... while Boeing is known for space craft, military rockets, the works. If it's a government contract.. boeing will most likely get it. Really no way of telling, though.
 
isitsafenow
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RE: Airbus Could Be Building A Plant At PIT

Fri Mar 11, 2005 9:02 pm

GIGNEIL...Bingo, you win the prize. You are 95 per cent correct, because congress has power to curtail this outsourcing fad we are in. That makes congress five percent at fault for wasting time with steroids in baseball and not focusing on our real problems. Some our our airports can use expansion but we only talk about it. LGA could build another runway in the bay. You can't keep running all that traffic off two runways without something giving bad happening sooner or later.
Japan did it at Osaka.
To keep on topic, Airbus should stay all over Europe and Boeing should stay all over the USA...
thankyouverymuch

safe
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
 
b752fanatic
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RE: Airbus Could Be Building A Plant At PIT

Fri Mar 11, 2005 11:07 pm

Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 23):
He's my two cents.
Lets have the US Congress ok the bill to spend your money and mine with another foreign company. We are doing it now at a record pace so why not with US Military airplanes? The USA has a serious problem with outsourcing work overseas. We are no longer a manufacturing leader. Those days are gone and will not return. Steel is imported, 57 percent of our motor vehicles not counting motorcycles are imported. Clothing is as we Americans know is from everyplace but the USA. I saw on TV tonight China imported 18 million T-Shirts to the USA in January alone. Last year was less then one million for the same month. Send a letter or E mail to your congressman and urge him/her to give the tanker contract to Airbus.....
How friggin stupid can we Americans be?
safe

I totally Agree.

I dont think that the money we pay as Americans, paying taxes will be going in the hands of some foreign company that will offer a similar product that a company 100% American offers at a cheaper price, while the A330T will be well above the price of the 767T, and that is for sure, believe me, the cost of each A330 tanker will be 20-40% higher than the 767T.

I don't know why Airbus wants to keep playing the game, knowing they will lose, why don't they concentrate their efforts in trying to sell their A380 and begin work on their 350?
"Truth is more of a stranger than fiction." Mark Twain
 
AirbusDriver
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RE: Airbus Could Be Building A Plant At PIT

Sat Mar 12, 2005 12:31 am

I think if this is based on merit the A330 will win...It is a better airplane, why buy a new 25 year old tanker instead of a new one??? Guy's this buy "American" is over we now live in the ages of globalization like it or not...
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Airbus Could Be Building A Plant At PIT

Sat Mar 12, 2005 12:59 am

The Lockheed/Martin plant in Fort Worth, currently building F-16s, is one of the plants bidding to build KC-330s for EADS. They use to build B-36s there, so infastructure for big airplanes is still there.

There is also no one saying the KC-767 is dead for the USAF. That airplane is currently in production for Italy and Japan. So Boeing could have an advantage in lower start up tooling cost.

Also, there are USAF people looking at a tanker version of the B-777F and the B-787, as well as the A-332.

This program will not go before Congress for at least two more years, after the next Congressional election cycle.

The KC-135E these airplanes will replace really have another 40+ years of life still in the airframes, if they are upgraded to the KC-135R standard, which is about 30% of the cost of any new tanker.
 
columba
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RE: Airbus Could Be Building A Plant At PIT

Sat Mar 12, 2005 1:26 am

Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 23):
The USA has a serious problem with outsourcing work overseas. We are no longer a manufacturing leader. Those days are gone and will not return. Steel is imported, 57 percent of our motor vehicles not counting motorcycles are imported. Clothing is as we Americans know is from everyplace but the USA. I saw on TV tonight China imported 18 million T-Shirts to the USA in January alone. Last year was less then one million for the same month. Send a letter or E mail to your congressman and urge him/her to give the tanker contract to Airbus.....
How friggin stupid can we Americans be?
safe

Well outsourcing work overseas is not a problem of the US alone but of all western countries. That is the price of globalization: German companies e.g.create thousands of new jobs, sadly not in Germany, where we are having the highest unemployment rate in more than 50 years (over 5 million people without a job), but in China and Eastern Europe. Labor in Europe is too expensive.

RE: The USA has a serious problem with outsourcing work overseas

I was shown a yellow "support our troops" bracelets the other day. Do you know where it was produced. You should think that such a "patriotic product" would have to be made in the United States, to support your troops and support your economy, but no - these are made in China.... Big grin Something is going very wrong here........ Big grin
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RayChuang
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RE: Airbus Could Be Building A Plant At PIT

Sat Mar 12, 2005 2:57 am

I think one possibility is that if the USAF does award the tanker deal to EADS/Airbus, the US Government may ask that EADS provide production jigs for the A330-200 derivative so complete final assembly can be done here in the USA. The most likely plant that can do this? USAF Plant 42 in Palmdale, CA, where the Rockwell B-1 bomber was built.

And there are a couple of other benefits, too. Besides production for the USAF (which could total over 200 planes), this new line could also be used to build A332 derivative tankers for the NATO air forces of the UK, France, Germany, Spain and possibly Italy, too; that could add up to another 70-100 airframes. Also, it frees up the main Airbus production line in Toulouse so the main Airbus plant can concentrate on A340-500/600 and A350 production.
 
b752fanatic
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RE: Airbus Could Be Building A Plant At PIT

Sat Mar 12, 2005 5:01 am

People,

There are many reasons why the A330 will not be an AF tanker, one of them is the wingspan.

The A330 wings are to wide, hence will take too much space for parking.
"Truth is more of a stranger than fiction." Mark Twain
 
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solnabo
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RE: Airbus Could Be Building A Plant At PIT

Sat Mar 12, 2005 5:36 am

Quoting B752fanatic (Reply 33):

U gotta be kidding!!!

A330 "to much space for parking" at an AF Base, whatta´bout Galaxy, Starlifter, Globemaster???

Nice try  Wink

Micke//SE  zzz 
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atmx2000
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RE: Airbus Could Be Building A Plant At PIT

Sat Mar 12, 2005 5:40 am

And how many of those big transports does the US have? Not very many compared to the tanker fleet. Finding space for a lot of big planes is harder than finding space for a few really big planes.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
gigneil
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RE: Airbus Could Be Building A Plant At PIT

Sat Mar 12, 2005 5:45 am

Quoting Solnabo (Reply 34):
A330 "to much space for parking" at an AF Base, whatta´bout Galaxy, Starlifter, Globemaster???

This is a major detail.

I think the A330's wingspan is actually greater than that of the Globemaster III.

N
 
vatveng
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RE: Airbus Could Be Building A Plant At PIT

Sat Mar 12, 2005 7:19 am

Article in the Virginian-Pilot (Norfolk paper) about Virginia trying to attract the same A330 plant:

http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories/story.cfm?story=83290&ran=45887

And they want to put it at PHF?!?  rotfl 
 
Lt-AWACS
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RE: Airbus Could Be Building A Plant At PIT

Sat Mar 12, 2005 1:44 pm

Quoting Solnabo (Reply 34):
U gotta be kidding!!!

A330 "to much space for parking" at an AF Base, whatta´bout Galaxy, Starlifter, Globemaster???

Nice try

actually he is correct, wingspan is a major issue as footprint and rampspace is a factor in all orders. Airbases like Prince Sultan, Al Udeid, and stateside bases like Tinker, Nellis and Langley only have limited ramp space. Deployed and heavily TDY bases need to be able to hold a certain number of aircraft (for logistically planning), and the 767 has a shorter wingspan-which was a factor in the contract. Not a huge factor, mind you, but a factor none-the-less.

Do not expect the F/A-22 to be cut fully, only scaled back-at least for the next two defense cycles.

The tankers can be flown for many more years, it is just a matter of cost, ditto the E-3, B-52 etc. But it would be cheaper to get a new life airframe (in Depot costs alone, not to mention flying hour MX) than continue to pay for Depot MX on the old PW engine -135s.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
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DAL7e7
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RE: Airbus Could Be Building A Plant At PIT

Sat Mar 12, 2005 2:26 pm

I literally have 2 cents:
1)Could you imagine an A-380 Tanker?

2)What if Airbus gets the contract and goes to Spokane? Could you imagine an Airbus plant 300 MI from a Boeing plant? If it happens, I see some 300 Mi missile tests happening in the future.

Trey in TVI
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