bigsmile
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A380: Ground Runs & 1st Flight

Thu Mar 10, 2005 8:56 pm

Hello to you all, this is my first message.

I have been informed that most of the ground runs have now been completed.Although I have to question this as I was informed that the cockpit of the aircraft is still not finished. So if anyone has seen the aircraft running at Toulouse I would love to know.

The problems encountered with the tail section have now been sorted out.

As for the 1st Flight, the date given as March 29th was only made because Airbus said to their customers the aircraft would make this flight within the 1st quarter of 2005 and the 29th march is the end of the 1st quarter.

There currently is no date fixed as yet for 1st flight only guessed dates. Current date I have heard is mid to end April at the earliest. But again Airbus has NOT fixed a date as yet

I hope this is of help to all those interested in this big bird.
 
tavve
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RE: A380: Ground Runs & 1st Flight

Thu Mar 10, 2005 9:20 pm

I just so desperately want it to be at Paris' air show in June (and of course that it becomes successful and I get many opportunities to fly in it).
GOT, that's where I live
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: A380: Ground Runs & 1st Flight

Thu Mar 10, 2005 11:37 pm

If the cockpit "is still not finished", why would Airbus run any ground test? Normally there are several things looked at when a new type of aircraft begins taxi test. These include the normal cockpit instrumentation. These would include the HSI, ADI, compass, normal engine instruments, hydraulic and electrical systems, and other basic items. Later during the high speed taxi test, airspeed indicators can be checked. Of course, altimeters, and VVIs cannot be realistically checked.

But, all of this is very basic. Airbus will take the testing of the A-380 one step at a time.

Now if there are contract conditions on some orders for the aircraft to pass certain milestones by a particular date, Airbus would be wise to just pay the contract penalty rather than risk rushing the testing of the A-380.
 
DAYflyer
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RE: A380: Ground Runs & 1st Flight

Thu Mar 10, 2005 11:53 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 2):
Now if there are contract conditions on some orders for the aircraft to pass certain milestones by a particular date, Airbus would be wise to just pay the contract penalty rather than risk rushing the testing of the A-380.

Very true indeed. The last thing a new type needs is a safety issue or a perceived safety issue.
One Nation Under God
 
MidnightMike
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RE: A380: Ground Runs & 1st Flight

Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:14 am



Quoting Bigsmile (Thread starter):
As for the 1st Flight, the date given as March 29th was only made because Airbus said to their customers the aircraft would make this flight within the 1st quarter of 2005 and the 29th march is the end of the 1st quarter.

Well, first Boeing was embarrassed when they did not hit their sales goal of "200" 787's by the end of 2004, now it looks like Airbus is going to be embarrassed when the A380 does not fly anytime in March.

The response by Airbus is called "spinning", Boeing did it last year, now it is Airbus turn.....
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bigsmile
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RE: A380: Ground Runs & 1st Flight

Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:43 am



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 2):
If the cockpit "is still not finished", why would Airbus run any ground test?

I agree with you KC135TopBoom. This is same reason why I question that these test's have been carried out.

When I asked the question "Have they started the ground tests yet?" the response I got was "Nearly all ground tests have been done". Then later on in the conversation asking how the aircraft is doing? I was told the cockpit is no where near finished. Which made then doubt that the tests had been done at all.

I'm sure when the aircraft has done these tests out on the taxi way and runway. Someone here on A.Net would have seen it being done. As far as I can tell from the forums no-one has seen this take place or taken any pics of this.
 
F9Animal
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RE: A380: Ground Runs & 1st Flight

Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:57 am

I would rather see them finish the work first, and test fly it after. In todays airline world, delays are not a big deal anymore.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
kdeg00
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RE: A380: Ground Runs & 1st Flight

Fri Mar 11, 2005 1:23 am

Does the "not finished" cockpit necessarily mean that functional parrts are still not installed, or could it simply mean not finished in the sense of interior trim and covering pieces that would have no bearing on the performance of the aircraft?
 
bigsmile
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RE: A380: Ground Runs & 1st Flight

Fri Mar 11, 2005 1:29 am



Quoting Kdeg00 (Reply 7):
Does the "not finished" cockpit necessarily mean that functional parrts are still not installed, or could it simply mean not finished in the sense of interior trim and covering pieces that would have no bearing on the performance of the aircraft?

Fuctioning parts are not fitted
 
AlitaliaMD11
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RE: A380: Ground Runs & 1st Flight

Fri Mar 11, 2005 1:47 am

I hope they get around to getting a date soon. As soon as I heard about the flight being in the end of March I rused onto and bought tickets for TLS. Now I have tickets MAD-ORY-TLS and don't know what to do! I really want to see the A380. Do you think I would be able to see it, even if the first flight was not between March 30 and April 1?
No Vueling No Party
 
bigsmile
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RE: A380: Ground Runs & 1st Flight

Fri Mar 11, 2005 2:01 am

I think if you go there between March 30 and April 1 there will be very big chance you will see it out on the airfield doing maneuvers. There is a big push by Airbus to get this aircraft up and flying. It's all hands on decks at the moment.
 
AMSSpotter
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RE: A380: Ground Runs & 1st Flight

Fri Mar 11, 2005 2:29 am

Bigsmile, thanks for the info and please keep us updated!
I personally can't wait to see the Whalejet taking off to the skies and do hope it will be at the Paris Airshow in June.
 
jacobin777
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RE: A380: Ground Runs & 1st Flight

Fri Mar 11, 2005 2:53 am



Quoting Bigsmile (Thread starter):
The problems encountered with the tail section have now been sorted out.

....wouldn't that mean there actually WAS a problem with the tail section then?
"Up the Irons!"
 
gigneil
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RE: A380: Ground Runs & 1st Flight

Fri Mar 11, 2005 2:54 am

There definitely was.

The disagreement was Airbus said it was minor, and Der Spiegel (who is a little sensationalist wrt business) said it was a showstopper.

N
 
Sinlock
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RE: A380: Ground Runs & 1st Flight

Fri Mar 11, 2005 4:07 am

I'm not sure how it works in the EU, but here in the US as long as the aircraft is registered as EXPERIMENTAL you don't really need much equipment in order to start flight testing. (Pretty much just the instruments found in your average C-172)

I would think that Airbus will be able to work out any kinks. I sure hope so as it would be a PR nightmare if they missed Paris and had to wait a year and show it to the public at Farnbrough. (Where I'll hopeful see her)
 
Tomys
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RE: A380: Ground Runs & 1st Flight

Fri Mar 11, 2005 4:11 am



Quoting Tavve (Reply 1):
I just so desperately want it to be at Paris' air show in June (and of course that it becomes successful and I get many opportunities to fly in it).

I want to be there too and one flight with A380 would be enough for me  Smile
 
N60659
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RE: A380: Ground Runs & 1st Flight

Fri Mar 11, 2005 4:19 am

This is my first post as well.

Do "ground tests" constitute static tests or do they include taxi tests as well. It could be possible that the ground tests referred to by Bigsmile are those that ensure some basic things like the rudder moves when the rudder pedal is pushed, fuel transfer between tanks etc. Does the cockpit need to be finsihed for such tasks?
Nec Dextrorsum Nec Sinistrorsum
 
bigsmile
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RE: A380: Ground Runs & 1st Flight

Fri Mar 11, 2005 4:24 am



Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 12):
....wouldn't that mean there actually WAS a problem with the tail section then?

Jacobin777 there was a problem with the tail section, but this was not a major problem. Only some minor strengthening was required. (The aircraft is still within it's projected weight targets).

Like anything that is a complete new design. There will be problems. Hence the reason for testing the aircraft upto and beyond anything it will endure during it's in service life. Then and only then will the certification process start and it getting it's type airworthiness certification and go into service with the airlines.
 
Gary2880
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RE: A380: Ground Runs & 1st Flight

Fri Mar 11, 2005 4:28 am

for the fight flight will they fill the plane up with weights to make it as heavy as it would be with passengers seats and luggage or will they take it easy on the first shot and add more weight in later tests?
Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel :- Samuel Johnson
 
bigsmile
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RE: A380: Ground Runs & 1st Flight

Fri Mar 11, 2005 4:29 am



Quoting N60659 (Reply 16):
Do "ground tests" constitute static tests or do they include taxi tests as well.

Ground tests include everything from flight control movement, fuel transfer, engine running, taxi tests, to going along the runway and simulating an aborted take off.

I hope that helps N60659
 
bigsmile
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RE: A380: Ground Runs & 1st Flight

Fri Mar 11, 2005 4:51 am



Quoting Gary2880 (Reply 18):
for the fight flight will they fill the plane up with weights to make it as heavy as it would be with passengers seats and luggage or will they take it easy on the first shot and add more weight in later tests?

I presume you mean the 1st flight Gary. Well the answer is no. The aircraft will gradually build up to it's MTOW during the course of testing. First the aircraft performance and handling charactistics are tested in order to iron out any problems that are encountered before loading the aircraft with ballast. This is usually done using water ballast tanks which allow the weight to moved around the aircraft.

I hope you find this answers your question gary.
 
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glideslope
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RE: A380: Ground Runs & 1st Flight

Fri Mar 11, 2005 5:06 am

Airbus will be lucky if the Ground Tests even start by April. Still say 1st flight 05/6 at the earliest.  Cool
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
 
boeingfever777
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RE: A380: Ground Runs & 1st Flight

Fri Mar 11, 2005 5:20 am



Quoting MidnightMike (Reply 4):
Well, first Boeing was embarrassed when they did not hit their sales goal of "200" 787's by the end of 2004,

How was that a embarrassment? It was a goal....yes, a much talked about one but its a goal. Nothing was set in stone as to them reaching it by ends year. Therefore that's why its called "a goal" correct?

Airbus will do fine. This a/c is brand new nothin like it has come before in the commercial aspect. Hicups will occur and like others stated:

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 3):
The last thing a new type needs is a safety issue or a perceived safety issue.

A few delays will be worth a huge mistake or accident.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: A380: Ground Runs & 1st Flight

Fri Mar 11, 2005 5:35 am



Quoting Bigsmile (Reply 8):
Fuctioning parts are not fitted

Naaa... They're just trying to justify the functionality of the fuzzy dice!  dopey 

Quoting Bigsmile (Reply 17):
Jacobin777 there was a problem with the tail section, but this was not a major problem.

One always has these "fixable" issues in testing. Most of the time its only due to an over-nervous analyst!  duck  Seriously, there is a required safety margin and if a part is even a percent low, they'll reinforce.

Quoting Bigsmile (Reply 19):
Ground tests include everything from flight control movement, fuel transfer, engine running, taxi tests, to going along the runway and simulating an aborted take off.

Not to nitpick, but I've always seen static ground tests, taxi tests, and "high speed" taxi tests split into 3 categories. But that could just be corporate culture too.

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
planemad
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RE: A380: Ground Runs & 1st Flight

Fri Mar 11, 2005 7:09 am

I am in TLS 5-7th April. I hope to see it.

Sam D.
 
rootsair
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RE: A380: Ground Runs & 1st Flight

Fri Mar 11, 2005 8:53 pm

Quoting Bigsmile (Thread starter):
Hello to you all, this is my first message.

Welcome to a.net !!
A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
 
Morvious
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RE: A380: Ground Runs & 1st Flight

Fri Mar 11, 2005 8:54 pm

Quoting Glideslope (Reply 21):
Airbus will be lucky if the Ground Tests even start by April. Still say 1st flight 05/6 at the earliest

Ground tests?

According to the 1st post the ground test are almost completed? Or did I missed something?

I think you meant flight tests?!? Right?
have a good day, Stefan van Hierden
 
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Buyantukhaa
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RE: A380: Ground Runs & 1st Flight

Sat Mar 12, 2005 3:16 am

Quoting N60659 (Reply 16):
N60659
From United States, joined Mar 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Posted Thu Mar 10 2005 20:19:12 UTC+1 and read 7888 times:
Reply: 16 [Quote selected text]

This is my first post as well.

Ehhh, how is this possible?!
I scratch my head, therefore I am.
 
A350
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RE: A380: Ground Runs & 1st Flight

Sat Mar 12, 2005 4:20 am

Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Reply 27):
Quoting N60659 (Reply 16):
N60659
From United States, joined Mar 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Posted Thu Mar 10 2005 20:19:12 UTC+1 and read 7888 times:
Reply: 16 [Quote selected text]

This is my first post as well.

Ehhh, how is this possible?!

AFAIK the personal data like number of posts, respect. rating etc. are updated only once per day.

A350
 
mham001
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RE: A380: Ground Runs & 1st Flight

Sat Mar 12, 2005 4:44 am

On a related note, delivery of SIA A380s have been delayed two months, reportedly because of pasenger cabin problems. (today in A&C)
 
gigneil
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RE: A380: Ground Runs & 1st Flight

Sat Mar 12, 2005 4:55 am

Quoting Glideslope (Reply 21):
Airbus will be lucky if the Ground Tests even start by April.

The ground runs are almost finished.

N
 
nsfguy
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RE: A380: Ground Runs & 1st Flight

Sat Mar 12, 2005 11:42 am

I sure hope they don't "try to put it in before it gets hard" This flying lard can will never get over anything but a sterling safety record, given that with the price of fuel predicted to double in 10 years or less, you will be seeing the 1000 seat "rack um'...pack um'... and stack um'" all economy configuration much sooner than you think, just like the 747 did when fuel was no longer cheap... out came the tacky disco cocktail lounge, and here came the bus station seats by the hundreds! take your time 380, you will be the only thing we will be able to afford to fly in the future.
 
bigsmile
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RE: A380: Ground Runs & 1st Flight

Tue Mar 15, 2005 10:43 am

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 23):
Not to nitpick, but I've always seen static ground tests, taxi tests, and "high speed" taxi tests split into 3 categories. But that could just be corporate culture too.

Just making it easier for people outside the aviation industry to understand.

As for these test's the Taxi test's haven't been completed as yet. They are about to start. But everything looking towards mid April for 1st flight
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: A380: Ground Runs & 1st Flight

Tue Mar 15, 2005 7:10 pm

Quoting Gary2880 (Reply 18):
for the fight flight will they fill the plane up with weights to make it as heavy as it would be with passengers seats and luggage or will they take it easy on the first shot and add more weight in later tests?

As has been said, no it won't be close to MTOW. According to http://www.airliners.net/info/stats.main?id=29 the engines are also derated to start with.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
 
OldAeroGuy
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RE: A380: Ground Runs & 1st Flight

Tue Mar 15, 2005 11:20 pm

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 30):
The ground runs are almost finished.

If this is the case, I'm surprised. Given the PR that's surrounded the A380, I would have thought there would have been a press release and numerous pictures the first time the airplane moved under its own power.
Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis

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