metsfan1
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Possible CX 773ER & 747ADV Order

Thu Mar 10, 2005 9:41 pm

In this mornings ATW Online it mentioned that Cathay was looking to expand its fleet due to record growth. It says that they are looking to purchase new long haul aircraft and is favoring the 773ER & 747ADV with an order for both types expected soon.
 
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solnabo
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RE: Possible CX 773ER & 747ADV Order

Thu Mar 10, 2005 9:56 pm

"CX to order 747ADV soon".....

Any info/pics of this 747 yet???

Micke/SE  zzz 
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Rj111
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RE: Possible CX 773ER & 747ADV Order

Thu Mar 10, 2005 10:08 pm

I'd be suprised. I thought i heard they've extended their Trent 500 maintenance contracts with RR.

[Edited 2005-03-10 14:25:57]
 
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PanAm_DC10
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RE: Possible CX 773ER & 747ADV Order

Thu Mar 10, 2005 10:18 pm

That was the same Journalist who claimed QF ordered 777s and they then went and ordered A380s & A330s. His other claim to fame is QR ordering the 773ER "in bulk" only one he got right was SQ.

When CX & Boeing confirm I'll believe it, until then we continue to wait!

Regards
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RayChuang
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RE: Possible CX 773ER & 747ADV Order

Thu Mar 10, 2005 10:23 pm

I think it's likely that CX may order the A340-600HGW and return their early-production A340-600's back to the lessor. CX still expresses concerns about the performance of the A380-800 and will probably wait until 2007-2008 time frame to order that plane.
 
CX Flyboy
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RE: Possible CX 773ER & 747ADV Order

Thu Mar 10, 2005 10:47 pm

Rj111, The maintenance contract was for 5 years for the current three A340-600s. This isn't an indication of things to come, just that any ordered aircraft will not arrive in time to take over the HKG-JFK route anyway.
 
Rj111
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RE: Possible CX 773ER & 747ADV Order

Thu Mar 10, 2005 10:50 pm

CX Flyboi, is 'CXboi' on Airwise you?

http://forum.airwise.com/forum/showt...55be91e930953221c2f1&threadid=6115

[Edited 2005-03-10 14:51:19]
 
Thrust
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RE: Possible CX 773ER & 747ADV Order

Thu Mar 10, 2005 10:54 pm

That is exciting news. I certainly hope the 747Adv does get off the ground...I don't want to see Boeing's monopoly of the jumbo market change to an Airbus monopoly. I would rather see two companies competing to build the biggest jumbo, or rather, see the 747 and A380 coexisting together  spin 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Possible CX 773ER & 747ADV Order

Thu Mar 10, 2005 11:04 pm

I agree with Thrust, I'd like to see the B-747-ADV get off the ground too. The next B-747 can coexist with the A-380.
 
DAYflyer
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RE: Possible CX 773ER & 747ADV Order

Thu Mar 10, 2005 11:11 pm

The 747 Adv needs a nice order before the board will approve it at Boeing, so lets hope this report is correct. Otherwise, someone in Japan will have to order it to get it going. I have not heard or read of any interest in Europe, and the North American airlines are in no condition to order anything more expensive than styrofoam cups.
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mauriceb
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RE: Possible CX 773ER & 747ADV Order

Thu Mar 10, 2005 11:31 pm

tought that CX didn't want to fly 2 engines on long haul?..... (see, 777-300ER)
 
iowa744fan
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RE: Possible CX 773ER & 747ADV Order

Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:28 am

Would the 773ER be the first GE powered aircraft operated by Cathay Pacific other than during a short term lease? The only exceptions might be the old 990s and 707s from long ago. It would be interesting to see CX go from a sole RR operator to operating all three within a few years. I realize that using different engines is not necessarily a bad or extremely expensive undertaking when considering aircraft performance or acquisition costs, I just thought that it would be interesting. As with most big decisions these days that are anticipated to go towards one company or the other...I'll wait until they make the order to get excited.
 
MD80Nut
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RE: Possible CX 773ER & 747ADV Order

Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:32 am



Quoting Iowa744Fan (Reply 11):
The only exceptions might be the old 990s

I believe Cathay operated the 880, not the 990.

It would be nice to see them order the 773ER and 747ADV, but like to see the order confirmed by CX and Boeing before getting excited, as others have said.

Cheers, Ralph
Fly Douglas Jets DC-8 / DC-9 / DC-10 / MD80 / MD11 / MD90 / 717
 
KL808
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RE: Possible CX 773ER & 747ADV Order

Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:38 am

I wont believe until I see it. Just as PANAM_DC10 said, that particular journalist doesn't always get it right.

I can believe that CX might order the B747ADV but the B777-300ER, nah that aint happening.

Our Hongkong friends as well as our CX pilot can tell us how CX is reluctant to use twins on Long over water operations. Has this thinking changed?

We will have to wait and see folks.

Drew
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DIA
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RE: Possible CX 773ER & 747ADV Order

Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:44 am



Quoting MD80Nut (Reply 12):
I believe Cathay operated the 880, not the 990.

You are correct, MD80Nut.

Quoting Iowa744Fan (Reply 11):
Would the 773ER be the first GE powered aircraft operated by Cathay Pacific other than during a short term lease? The only exceptions might be the old 990s and 707s from long ago.

Don't forget the L1011s, although they weren't directly ordered from Lockheed.
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B-HOP
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RE: Possible CX 773ER & 747ADV Order

Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:53 am

Iowa744Fan: -

707 never used GE engine, in CX's case, they are JT3D engines. Soon CX would run 747 using all three engine makers anyway, 3 -200F uses GE already (HMD-F), whilst ex-SQ 400 uses PW.

Kev

[Edited 2005-03-10 17:27:15]
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PM
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RE: Possible CX 773ER & 747ADV Order

Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:57 am



Quoting DIA (Reply 14):
Don't forget the L1011s, although they weren't directly ordered from Lockheed.

Which were also RR-powered (of course) and not GE...  Yeah sure
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: Possible CX 773ER & 747ADV Order

Fri Mar 11, 2005 1:09 am



Quoting Solnabo (Reply 1):
Any info/pics of this 747 yet???

Here ya go......

http://www.cardatabase.net/modifieda...earch/photo_search.php?id=00004509
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
DIA
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RE: Possible CX 773ER & 747ADV Order

Fri Mar 11, 2005 1:26 am



Quoting PM (Reply 16):
Which were also RR-powered (of course) and not GE...

Thanks for the correction PMflamed 

I misread what I responded to, my fault.
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iowa744fan
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RE: Possible CX 773ER & 747ADV Order

Fri Mar 11, 2005 1:38 am

MD80nut,

Yep, you are correct, 880s not the 990s. As soon as I read that, I thought back to the book "Beyond Lion Rock" and remembered that it is the 880. Thanks for the correction.

B-HOP,

Thanks for the info about the 707s. I was not aware that Cathay operates some GE powered 742Fs. I looked in the photos and found two of them: V-HME and V-HMF. Who did they get these from? Have they had them in their fleet for a while? I am not trying to think if Cathay is (will be) the only airline to operate or ever operate the 747 with all three engine brands...either simultaneously or spread out.


As for the 880s, I found this on Wikipedia:
powered by General Electric CJ-805-3 turbojets (a civilian version of the famous J79 turbojet). After production the FAA mandated additional instrumentation, which they added by placing a "raceway" on the top of the fuselage, rather than ripping apart the interiors over the wing area.

The first production version, the Model 22, first flew on January 27, 1959 – there was no prototype testing. The design entered service with Delta Airlines just over a year later, in May 1960, slightly modified as the 880-22m with newer version 805-3B engines. They were flown by Alaska, Cathay Pacific, Delta, Japan, KLM, Northeast, Swissair, TWA and VIASA. Elvis Presley's private jet was an 880. The last aircraft was withdrawn from commercial service in 1974.


So, the 880s also used GE engines.
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: Possible CX 773ER & 747ADV Order

Fri Mar 11, 2005 1:57 am



Quoting Solnabo (Reply 1):
"CX to order 747ADV soon".....

Any info/pics of this 747 yet???

Micke/SE

Yah, they're in the database along with the pics of the Airbus A305 and A350.

(not an Airbus bash, just teasing Solnabo for his "consistancy" Big grin)

-Dave
-Dave
 
DIA
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RE: Possible CX 773ER & 747ADV Order

Fri Mar 11, 2005 2:13 am

PlanesNTrains: Just a guess here. Working for Oregon Pacific & Eastern Railway?


Also, remember that Cathay Pacific also operated Lockheed Electra L-188s.
View Large View Medium
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DIA
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RE: Possible CX 773ER & 747ADV Order

Fri Mar 11, 2005 2:17 am

I never stated my point. . .

So, referencing the Electra (above), those were Allison 501-D13 engines. So, they have had other manufacturers' engines. . .just an FYI.
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Carpethead
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RE: Possible CX 773ER & 747ADV Order

Fri Mar 11, 2005 8:03 am

The 742F that are GE-powered are Air Hong Kong aircraft. They are a subsidiary of CX.

As for the topic on hand, neither order seems justifiable. But crazier things have happened. As people have mentioned, lets hear it officially from CX or Boeing.
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: Possible CX 773ER & 747ADV Order

Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:48 pm

Quoting DIA (Reply 21):
PlanesNTrains: Just a guess here. Working for Oregon Pacific & Eastern Railway?

No, a little further north. But still south of where the 747/777 are built.

-Dave
-Dave
 
travellin'man
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RE: Possible CX 773ER & 747ADV Order

Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:53 pm

Actually, when the 773ER was doing flight tests, I remember seeing an interview with one of the CX honchos who said they were very interested in the plane. Of course Anet was abuzz about it, but no orders have come. SQ accepted a new engine type to run the plane, so CX might well do the same. CX has been one of the main proponents of the "plug", the 10 or so foot stretch to the 747 fuselage that is part of the ADV design. So it is not outrageous to suggest they are interested, perhaps enough to order eventually.
It is not enough to be rude; one must also be incorrect.
 
PVD757
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RE: Possible CX 773ER & 747ADV Order

Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:52 pm

I cannot see how they would order both the 773ER and 744 ADV. IMO, I believe they serve the same market. Could they be interested in a newer 747? Who wouldn't if you fly a lot of them already. I really cannot see them ordering the A380 unless the market forces them to.
 
Scanorama
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RE: Possible CX 773ER & 747ADV Order

Fri Mar 11, 2005 5:30 pm

CX is always have interest on these 2 particular aircrafts and these rumors have been around for quite sometimes now, and we will find out whether it is true or not in the next couple of months. Before the offical announcements of CX and Boeing comes true, this is still a rumor.
 
CX Flyboy
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RE: Possible CX 773ER & 747ADV Order

Fri Mar 11, 2005 6:06 pm

Carpethead,

The GE aircraft are no longer operated by AHK, but fly for CX, under CX routes in cx colours.

Rj111,

No, it isn't me!
 
A40-TY
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RE: Possible CX 773ER & 747ADV Order

Fri Mar 11, 2005 8:32 pm

Quoting DIA (Reply 14):
Don't forget the L1011s, although they weren't directly ordered from Lockheed.

The L-1011's were all RR RB211-22B powered (the CX 747-267B's and -367's were powered by a derivative of this). In-fact CX did receive new L-1011's from Lockheed, in particular VR-HHK and HHL which were L-1011-100's, the only dash -100's operated by the airline. The rest of the companies L-1011 fleet were acquired from Eastern in the 1980's, all of these being dash -1 models.

Upon retirement many of the CX L-1011's found homes with operators such as Air Atlanta and Aer Turas.

Rgds,

A40-TY
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PM
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RE: Possible CX 773ER & 747ADV Order

Fri Mar 11, 2005 8:46 pm

Quoting A40-TY (Reply 29):
The L-1011's were all RR RB211-22B powered.

And here, of course, is where this all started. Cathay originally wanted DC10s (with, I assume, CF6s) but the UK government of the day prevailed upon them to choose the TriStar instead to support RR. The 747s followed with someone high up in CX memorably stating that if you hung an RR engine underneath the wing of a Boeing airframe you had a recipe for success. Enter the 777.

(I wonder where that guy is now and what he thinks about CFM A340s and whatever may come next...?)
 
CXCPA
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RE: Possible CX 773ER & 747ADV Order

Sat Mar 12, 2005 1:21 am

It will be the first time that CX consider Extended Range product. But it is better to wait SQ to sold the B773ER to them because SQ will replace their new aircraft very soon.  Big grin
 
iowa744fan
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RE: Possible CX 773ER & 747ADV Order

Sat Mar 12, 2005 2:58 am

The GE aircraft are no longer operated by AHK, but fly for CX, under CX routes in cx colours

CX Flyboy,

When did they repaint the old Air Hong Kong birds in the CX paint scheme? I had been under the impression that they did, so it is nice to get some confirmation.

And here, of course, is where this all started. Cathay originally wanted DC10s (with, I assume, CF6s) but the UK government of the day prevailed upon them to choose the TriStar instead to support RR. The 747s followed with someone high up in CX memorably stating that if you hung an RR engine underneath the wing of a Boeing airframe you had a recipe for success. Enter the 777.

PM,

According to the book, "Beyond Lion Rock" this is correct. Cathay did want the DC-10s with the CF6s, but at the time, RR was in a serious financial situation and may have been controlled by the government at this time (they were controlled for a time by the UK Govn't, no?). Anyway, the British govn't tried to persuade them to purchase the L-1011 since it used the RR engines to help support RR. Anyway, from what I understand, CX was quite pleased with the RR and have ordered them on all of their new delivered aircraft...well...except the 343s (and leased 342s that they used for a bit) which I think only come with GE CFM56s? Anyway, this was actually a huge center of argument around 1980 or so when the British government decided to allow another carrier onto the London - Hong Kong route. At the time, only BA was operating the route (I am pretty sure that they were BA at this time and no longer BOAC). Anyway, the three applicants were: Cathay Pacific, Laker, and B. Caledonian. The British govn't chose B.Cal. and both Cathay and local Hong Kong officials were extremely upset at the announcement. They even pointed out the fact that Cathay had ordered the Tristars with the RR engines when B. Cal had ordered the D10. Eventually, the British government changed the deal to add Cathay as a third airline.

Hmmm....not really on the topic of the 773ER or 747ADV. I guess that I will quit talking and let the forum return to that!
 
bartond
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RE: Possible CX 773ER & 747ADV Order

Sat Mar 12, 2005 4:57 am

Does CX plan to open up new routes or just beef up existing routes with these new planes? Where might they expand when they get these planes?
 
OHLBU
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RE: Possible CX 773ER & 747ADV Order

Sat Mar 12, 2005 5:01 am

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 9):
The 747 Adv needs a nice order before the board will approve it at Boeing

It´s coming, it´s coming. JAL has sacked thousands of workers so they can order the 747Adv. As AF is a guaranteed Airbus customer the Japanese airlines are Boeing´s. Silly

I really hope CX will go for the A380 though. And I´m sure they will order the 773ER if they consider it as a better money-maker over Airbus´ products, whatever the engine-make would be.
 
Carpethead
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RE: Possible CX 773ER & 747ADV Order

Sat Mar 12, 2005 9:16 am

CX flyboy,
Thanks for the update.
I did see the ex-AHK 742F in full CX color scheme recently. So AHK only operates A300-600Fs now?
 
CX Flyboy
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RE: Possible CX 773ER & 747ADV Order

Sat Mar 12, 2005 12:17 pm

That is correct, AHK now only operate A300Fs. Not sure exactly when the 742Fs were repainted into CX colours, but it was last year sometime. You can search the database for pictures. B-HMD is all white with CX Cargo stickers, whereas HME and HMF are in full CX colours.
 
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PM
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RE: Possible CX 773ER & 747ADV Order

Sat Mar 12, 2005 3:46 pm

Quoting Iowa744Fan (Reply 32):
According to the book, "Beyond Lion Rock" this is correct.

Iowa744fan, we read the same books!

Quoting Iowa744Fan (Reply 32):
the 343s (and leased 342s that they used for a bit) which I think only come with GE CFM56s

I don't know if you have any French people in Iowa but if you do I'd advise a certain caution before you call the CFM56 a GE engine!

Quoting Iowa744Fan (Reply 32):
The British govn't chose B.Cal. and both Cathay and local Hong Kong officials were extremely upset at the announcement. Eventually, the British government changed the deal to add Cathay as a third airline.

Indeed. I can remember BCAL 747s at LGW and I recall when CX got the route but could also only serve LGW. How times change.

Quoting Ohlbu (Reply 34):
As AF is a guaranteed Airbus customer...

AF is guaranteed to buy Airbus? The sales people working on A340-600s and 777-300ERs will be a bit surprised to hear that.
 
United Airline
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RE: Possible CX 773ER & 747ADV Order

Sat Mar 12, 2005 3:52 pm

Quoting Ohlbu (Reply 34):
As AF is a guaranteed Airbus customer the Japanese airlines are Boeing´s.

Not really. AF has the B 777-300ER on order. And they are interested in the B 747 Advanced. Also they operate the B 777-200ER as well as B 747-400. So....
 
N1120A
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RE: Possible CX 773ER & 747ADV Order

Sat Mar 12, 2005 4:22 pm

Quoting United Airline (Reply 38):
And they are interested in the B 747 Advanced.

AF is one airline I really don't see going that way, as they already are getting A380s
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SNATH
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RE: Possible CX 773ER & 747ADV Order

Sat Mar 12, 2005 4:25 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 39):
AF is one airline I really don't see going that way, as they already are getting A380s

LH are getting A380s but are also interested in the B747Adv, if you believe the rumours.

Tony
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N1120A
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RE: Possible CX 773ER & 747ADV Order

Sat Mar 12, 2005 4:26 pm

Quoting SNATH (Reply 40):
LH are getting A380s but are also interested in the B747Adv, if you believe the rumours.

That is because LH is has a rather large 747 fleet (more than twice AF) and love them. They also want them for LH cargo
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kaitak
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RE: Possible CX 773ER & 747ADV Order

Sat Mar 12, 2005 7:31 pm

I suppose CAL might be interested as well, being a 747-400F operator; probably even KE as well (although it's already ordered A380s).

What surprises me is that the increase in length of the 747A (which will presumably become the -500) doesn't allow that much of an increase in capacity. It's probably the extra range that CX wants it for - looking at HKG-JFK year round without capacity limitations.
 
SNATH
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RE: Possible CX 773ER & 747ADV Order

Sat Mar 12, 2005 7:33 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 41):
and love them.

Not possible! They do not have sidesticks! How can LH love a plane with a yoke?  silly   smile 

Tony
Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
 
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PM
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RE: Possible CX 773ER & 747ADV Order

Sat Mar 12, 2005 8:08 pm

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 42):
the 747A (which will presumably become the -500)

I'd be surprised. They used (and wasted) the -500 and -600 identities some years back. What about the -700 or -800? Or just the 747-400ADV?
 
QFA001
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RE: Possible CX 773ER & 747ADV Order

Sat Mar 12, 2005 9:06 pm

Quoting SNATH (Reply 40):
LH are getting A380s but are also interested in the B747Adv, if you believe the rumours.

AF/KL may well be interested in the 747Adv. However, neither AF nor KL is one of the 12 airlines that Boeing has approached on the 747Adv. So, if they are interested, they're not reaching into their wallets.  Wink
 
trex8
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RE: Possible CX 773ER & 747ADV Order

Sat Mar 12, 2005 9:39 pm

>However, neither AF nor KL is one of the 12 airlines that Boeing has approached on the 747Adv

so who are the "12"?
 
QFA001
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RE: Possible CX 773ER & 747ADV Order

Sat Mar 12, 2005 10:08 pm

Quoting Trex8 (Reply 46):
so who are the "12"?

I don't have all 12. I have 9 but will only mention CX and CV. However, 11 of the 12 airlines are Asia-based. However, I might not be telling you much as I think those two items have been mentioned in the press.

I don't mean to be one of those morons who only says cryptic things but I do need to respect my sources on this item. Thanks for understanding. From the above you could probably guess 10-11 airlines off the top of your head...
 
United Airline
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RE: Possible CX 773ER & 747ADV Order

Sat Mar 12, 2005 10:37 pm

What does CV stand for?

BA, UA, QF, SQ, MH etc?????

Well I am sure they can still order them even if they are not being approached
 
cx251
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RE: Possible CX 773ER & 747ADV Order

Sat Mar 12, 2005 11:11 pm

CV = Cargolux from Luxembourg

Probably JAL is on the list as well. Other possible candidates could be TG, KE, CI, ANA? and any airline with a reasonable size of 744 fleet.

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