tano
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 6:17 am

Meet Lan Argentina

Sat Mar 12, 2005 4:39 am

About an hour ago, Lan directors signed the purchase of Lafsa, the state owned airline that was formed with the LAPA and Dinar personnel when those companies folded up. Lafsa (Lineas Arereas Federales S.A.) has no planes, it had an agreement with Southern Winds (A4) to use their fleet of aging 732´s.

Due to a drug smuggling scandal that was made public a month or so ago, Argentine Government (Lafsa owner) terminated that agreement (on which Argentine Government subsidized ex Dinar and LAPA´s ex-employees salaries and paid the fuel bill).

The purchase includes an agreement that Lan will provide the means ($$$$) to A4 to continue operations (since the Lafsa agreement folded, A4 has to pay the fuel bill cash and had no more reservation system, ex. Short final).

Welcome, Arcanos!
 
UairFokker
Posts: 106
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2004 3:21 am

RE: Meet Lan Argentina

Sat Mar 12, 2005 4:47 am

This is great news! At least something good came out of this terrible scandal, the Argentinean government remembered Lafsa. But I am sorry for SW. Happy to hear LAN will take care of them. Now, I am worried of how the Argentine market will behave. AR should be kicking and screaming right now. Hope LAN performs a healthy competence and not start killing everybody.
Do you know if LAN will perform international routes?
Maybe the Puente Aereo...

Regards, UairFokker
 
tano
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 6:17 am

RE: Meet Lan Argentina

Sat Mar 12, 2005 4:56 am

Hola, UairFokker

In fact, Lan must purchase a national company to own Lafsa. Argentine law requires foreign ownership not to exceed 49% of an Argentine airline.

There has been a lot of negotiation with A4 owners before, but they did not reach an agreement.

Now things have changed (a lot). I suspect that they will finally sell A4 to our Chilean friends, paving the way. Anyhow Argentine Government guarantees in the new agreement that the routes and flight permissions owned by Lafsa will go to Lan Argentina.

The new agreement states that Lan will provide the means to A4 for 60 days, then negotiate the continuity of that support ("I buy you").

Saludos.
 
Aero
Posts: 183
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 2:55 am

RE: Meet Lan Argentina

Sat Mar 12, 2005 4:57 am

is this really happening? I´ve just read that LAN denied the operation.
Let´s see. It´d be great to see LAN flying within Argentina.

My flight yesterday (SCL-MAD-FRA) was full from chileans, argentines, brazilians and others. Cabin crew comes nowadays from Chile, Argentina, Perú and Ecuador. LAN becoming a real Latin American airline  Wink

Aero
LAN...the star of the Latin American skies
 
tano
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 6:17 am

RE: Meet Lan Argentina

Sat Mar 12, 2005 5:01 am

Hi Aero,

I am reading on-line major Argentine newspapers with this news on their front page.

More: They are broadcasting an official announcement from the Casa Rosada (Pink House our "White House").

I think this time it´s true....

Cheers.
 
Aero
Posts: 183
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 2:55 am

RE: Meet Lan Argentina

Sat Mar 12, 2005 5:14 am

Thank you Tano...

Which Argentine newspaper?
Because this has been denied in the main Chilean newspaper "El Mercurio"

http://www.emol.com

Saludos!
LAN...the star of the Latin American skies
 
tano
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 6:17 am

RE: Meet Lan Argentina

Sat Mar 12, 2005 5:15 am

More on this subject:

Chilean news says that Lan denies the operation as published on Argentine news.

In fact, the purchase is not done (yet). Legal terms and conditions have to be complied with. But there´s an agreement between Lan and the Argentine Government on the matter, saying that Lan will be the "operator" of both Lafsa and A4, taking care of their employees, until those terms and conditions are solved.

Regards.
 
tano
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 6:17 am

RE: Meet Lan Argentina

Sat Mar 12, 2005 5:17 am

Hi Aero,

See the link below:

http://www.clarin.com/diario/2005/03/11/um/m-936688.htm

Cheers.
 
Aero
Posts: 183
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 2:55 am

RE: Meet Lan Argentina

Sat Mar 12, 2005 5:20 am

LAN...the star of the Latin American skies
 
tano
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 6:17 am

RE: Meet Lan Argentina

Sat Mar 12, 2005 5:35 am

Well?

The major newspapers in Argentina say:
"Chilean Lan takes control of the state owned Lafsa"
http://www.clarin.com/diario/2005/03/11/um/m-936688.htm
"Lan Argentina is created and will take control of Lafsa"
http://www.infobae.com/notas/nota.php?Idx=171514&IdxSeccion=100435
"Lan initiated Lafsa purchase process"
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/economia/nota.asp?nota_id=686612

The major newspapers in Chile say
"Despite Argentine announcement Lan denies Lafsa purchase"
http://www.tercera.cl/articulo/0,6727,3255_5676_116915111,00.html
"Lan denies the purchase of Lafsa and Southern Winds"
http://www.emol.com/noticias/negocio...tallenoticias.asp?idnoticia=175622

I leave you the conclusions...
 
Aero
Posts: 183
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 2:55 am

RE: Meet Lan Argentina

Sat Mar 12, 2005 5:46 am

Probably LAN will take over but they will deny it until the operation is 100% done.

Do you like the idea of having a LanArgentina? How will the Argentines react/ think about it?
LAN...the star of the Latin American skies
 
Lan_Fanatic
Posts: 1056
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2001 11:41 am

RE: Meet Lan Argentina

Sat Mar 12, 2005 5:52 am

 
LVZXV
Posts: 1729
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:03 am

RE: Meet Lan Argentina

Sat Mar 12, 2005 5:56 am

I think this was the initial thread:

http://www.airliners.net/discussions...eneral_aviation/read.main/1999575/

Regards,

ZXV
How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
TACAA320
Posts: 7153
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:03 am

RE: Meet Lan Argentina

Sat Mar 12, 2005 5:56 am

Hear something good about your favourite airline is always nice for your ears.

Congratulations Lan!  Smile
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
tano
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 6:17 am

RE: Meet Lan Argentina

Sat Mar 12, 2005 6:10 am

Loud and clear, Lan.

Here are many opinions. AR has a monopoly now, with the arrival of Lan Argentina, they will have to compete. This is a complex, regulated industry, and Government role is important. Argentina lacks a true aerocommercial policy, always solving urgent problems with no long term planning or ruling.

I believe we will have a new situation here. AR has always been state owned and protected until early 90's. Competition were national airlines owned by nationals.

When AR went to "private" (a foreign Government controlled agency) hands, it nearly went broke. Then it changed owners and now is at least making an operational profit (but nobody knows for sure).

Now this new situation: AR in private hands (foreign controlled big tour operator) and Lan Argentina (foreign controlled major continental airline).

Nice to see what happens in this niche.
 
tano
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 6:17 am

RE: Meet Lan Argentina

Sat Mar 12, 2005 6:15 am

Yes, there was a thread before,

Sorry.
 
Marambio
Posts: 1145
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 9:41 am

RE: Meet Lan Argentina

Sat Mar 12, 2005 6:17 am

Good afternoon gentlemen,

I just got home from college and a friend of mine said hello to me on MSN with the message "Todos somos LAN!"...I immediately started browsing the papers from both Argentina and Chile and I finally found this LAN press release.

http://www18.lan.com/compania/lanchile/noticias/2005_03_11.html

Basically it says that LAN, together with Argentinian investors, has started negociations for taking over an Argentine airline, with granted authorizations for flying passengers, cargo and mail in both national and international routes.

The airline will use the name of LAN Argentina and will be a member of the LAN Alliance. As soon as all authorizations are aproved, LAN Argentina will start operating and will offer the Government to take over all Lafsa employees.

This press release refuses everything said by the moron that we have as Secretary of Transport, Ricardo Jaime. Jaime said LAN would operate under the name of LAN Nacional, and that the operation was almost completed.

Currently at Aeroparque Lafsa employees are demonstrating against LAN. They say LAN's secret airline is Aero2000. Aero2000 is an airline that does not exist (it is the very first time that people hear about it) and the name makes us think about...Aeropuertos Argentina 2000. AA2000's CEO is Eduardo Eurnekián, the man who bankrupted Lapa.

I'm speachless and somewhat angry...LAN is finally coming to Argentina...

Saludos,
Marambio
Aerolíneas Argentinas - La Argentina que levanta vuelo
 
Aero
Posts: 183
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 2:55 am

RE: Meet Lan Argentina

Sat Mar 12, 2005 8:58 am

why angry Marambio?

Isn´t it great to have a fair competition? Like Aerolineas del Sur (Subsidary of Aerolineas Argentinas) in Chile flying from Santiago to Punta Arenas, Puerto Montt, Antofagasta y Iquique.

Or are you angry because of the protest of Lafsa?
LAN...the star of the Latin American skies
 
Aero
Posts: 183
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 2:55 am

RE: Meet Lan Argentina

Sat Mar 12, 2005 9:45 am

Breaking news now on all Chilean newspapers like this:

http://www.emol.com/noticias/negocio...tallenoticias.asp?idnoticia=175720
LAN...the star of the Latin American skies
 
Arcano
Posts: 2299
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:34 am

RE: Meet Lan Argentina

Sat Mar 12, 2005 11:18 am

Quoting Aero (Reply 3):
LAN becoming a real Latin American airline

We already flight with Argentine pilots within domestic flights in Chile...

Great times for both Chile and Argentina.


http://www.airliners.net/discussions...eneral_aviation/read.main/1999575/


read my comments in the other post



Regards )(
in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773, 380, 73G, 788, 789, 346
 
UairFokker
Posts: 106
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2004 3:21 am

RE: Meet Lan Argentina

Sat Mar 12, 2005 7:51 pm

Well, like I said before, this could be healthy competition, but, knowing LAN connections, membership of Oneworld, and probably reduced fares, this can also be a blood bath, with SW and American Falcon out of operation, AR in trouble, and if LAN gets in the Puente Aerea, Pluna's most profitable route, I would also be worried for the Uruguayan airline.
I hope this not happens.
I hope there is healthy competition
Regards,

UairFokker
(I like more Pluna, although)
 
luisde8cd
Posts: 2444
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:02 am

RE: Meet Lan Argentina

Sat Mar 12, 2005 11:13 pm

Welcome LAN Argentina!, now where the hell is LAN Venezuela!!!??? we deseperately need a newer fleet in Venezuela!
 
Aero
Posts: 183
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 2:55 am

RE: Meet Lan Argentina

Sun Mar 13, 2005 4:06 am

According to Chilean newspaper "El Mercurio", neither LAFSA nor SW will be taken over by LAN. Instead a new company (owned 49% by LAN and 51% by an Argentine Investor) will be created.

http://diario.elmercurio.com/2005/03...15C10-E800-409A-A0AE-23B38217F136}
LAN...the star of the Latin American skies
 
Arcano
Posts: 2299
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:34 am

RE: Meet Lan Argentina

Sun Mar 13, 2005 5:08 am

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 21):
now where the hell is LAN Venezuela!!!???

Waiting for Chavez to leave???
in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773, 380, 73G, 788, 789, 346
 
PPVRA
Posts: 7864
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

RE: Meet Lan Argentina

Sun Mar 13, 2005 5:12 am

Random question: Why isn't AR in an alliance? Is it because of the CAT II conditions?

IMHO, if AR joins STAR they could very well continue on with a large market share, and likely never really give a chance to LanArgentina to become Argentina's main airline. Obviously that's considering Varig will still be around, which most likely they will be.

Now the situation could change drastically if TAM joins OneWorld, but nothing is certain yet and they could also join Skyteam, or even STAR if RG isn't around anymore.

I don't want to sound like dissing other airlines, but having a good partner in a country that covers about half of South America can, and will help a lot no matter what airline it is, and so far LAN doesn't have this partner airline.

Sure LAN is growing on the "other" half of the continent, but I doubt they can be present in every country. Not to mention that since Brazil is one country it would make all things easier and more efficient than having to deal with several different governments... worst of all: LatAm governments......

Everyone seems to be assuming LAN is bullet proof... they are not. Does AR need to improve? Apparently, but they sure can do it and an alliance can make a world of difference.

Saludos,

PPVRA

PS: Any word on when Argentina might leave CAT II?
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: Meet Lan Argentina

Sun Mar 13, 2005 5:43 am

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 24):
if AR joins STAR they could very well continue on with a large market share, and likely never really give a chance to LanArgentina to become Argentina's main airline

I dont think this is a major issue. Alliances sometimes are not a good option and/or strategy. Look at TAM in Brazil, the biggest Brazilian domestic airline, and TAM is not part of an alliance. More examples? JAL or Emirates! Bilateral agreements in some cases are more interesting.

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 24):
but having a good partner in a country that covers about half of South America can, and will help a lot no matter what airline it is, and so far LAN doesn't have this partner airline.

I dont see LAN making any acquisition in the Brazilian market. There were rumours that LA would be interested in buying shares of RG, but this is almost impossible. RG management would never allow, and the first candidate is the Portuguese-based Pestana Group, linked to TP.

One possible option is if TAM decides to accept the invitation to join OW. This could change the aviation landscape, and give LAN an impulse in Brazil.

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 24):
Any word on when Argentina might leave CAT II?

This is politics! It is outrageous that Argentina is classified as CAT-II.

Rgs,
 
PPVRA
Posts: 7864
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

RE: Meet Lan Argentina

Sun Mar 13, 2005 6:05 am

Hardi,

Emirates is a famous airline for having good service, but they are not an "important" airline. If they were an average airline, service wise, most people wouldn't fly them and there would be no reason to have them in an alliance or partnership.

Look at the US and Europe... all major airlines belong to an alliance. An airline would have been left behind if they didn't. VS is not an important airline.. falls into the same category as Emirates "luxury, easy money-making destinations only".

JAL has partnerships, and that can also be a good way (and maybe better a way) for AR.

My point is that AR can continue on being the leading airline in Argentina, but they need to wake up and smell the coffee- what RG didn't do, but let's leave that for another thread.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 25):
I dont see LAN making any acquisition in the Brazilian market. There were rumours that LA would be interested in buying shares of RG, but this is almost impossible. RG management would never allow, and the first candidate is the Portuguese-based Pestana Group, linked to TP.

I never said they would acquire any airline in Brazil, just that a partner would help them out a lot. That might come in form of an alliance, or just a separate partnership.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 25):
One possible option is if TAM decides to accept the invitation to join OW. This could change the aviation landscape, and give LAN an impulse in Brazil.

Exactly why AR needs a partner now more than ever.

Cheers,

PPVRA

Edit: typo

[Edited 2005-03-12 22:09:08]
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: Meet Lan Argentina

Sun Mar 13, 2005 6:43 am

PPVRA, sorry but I have to disagree.

Sometimes airlines get more benefits simply having bilateral agreement. Emirates, VS ad JAL are all very important airlines, with extensive network (they are NOT unimportant luxury airlines!). I dont think it would be wise for TAM to join an alliance, as it would simply become a feeder airline: OW and Sky have a stronghold on GRU. Sky alone operates 9 daily flights to GRU. This would undermine TAM.

As for the case of AR, I'm not sure. Has AR ever approached any alliance? Does AR have a bilateral partnership with any flagship airline?

Rgs,
 
PPVRA
Posts: 7864
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

RE: Meet Lan Argentina

Sun Mar 13, 2005 8:57 am

Hardi,

JAL in not unimportant, but VS does not deserve IMO any merit for what they've done. Anyone can throw in some nice seats, fly to New York and
make profits. If VS ever goes down, it would go unnoticeable for England, but if BA did... that's a whole different story.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 27):
Sometimes airlines get more benefits simply having bilateral agreement.

Agree 100%

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 27):
I don't think it would be wise for TAM to join an alliance, as it would simply become a feeder airline: OW and Sky have a stronghold on GRU / SBGR), Brazil">GRU. Sky alone operates 9 daily flights to GRU / SBGR), Brazil">GRU. This would undermine TAM.

You have a point there. But you also have to note that disadvantages also come with it.

And BTW, don't Alliances have rules that should deal with these kinds of problems you mentioned?

As for AR, whether it's an alliance or a bilateral agreement, I think they need it. It's either that, or AR will have a real tough time competing with the growing LAN group and pretty much everyone else.

Cheers,

PPVRA

[Edited 2005-03-13 00:59:42]
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
LVZXV
Posts: 1729
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:03 am

RE: Meet Lan Argentina

Sun Mar 13, 2005 1:49 pm

AR would probably make for an interesting alliance partner, interpret that as you will...

AR does have a bilateral agreement with PZ if I am not mistaken (not JJ), as do PU, partly so as to unload the burden of ASU which I hear is not a particularly profitable route.

And then there's some sort of a relationship with JK in Spain--are they also Marsans-owned?

Saludos,

ZXV
How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
luisde8cd
Posts: 2444
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:02 am

RE: Meet Lan Argentina

Sun Mar 13, 2005 1:52 pm

Quoting Arcano (Reply 23):
Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 21):
now where the hell is LAN Venezuela!!!???

Waiting for Chavez to leave???

Maybe... just like me and more than 50% of my fellow countrymen.

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