BOAC911
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LH/LX Merger; What Will Happen With Munich?

Mon Mar 14, 2005 6:31 am

To what extent will Munich be affected as Lufthansa hub in southern Europe, if Swiss is bought by Lufthansa?
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: LH/LX Merger; What Will Happen With Munich?

Mon Mar 14, 2005 6:33 am

MUC won't suffer, ZRH will bet turned into a regional hub with maybe 6 intercontinental LH/LX routes if they're lucky. And you can bet half of those will be served by other STAR members.
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TomFoolery
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RE: LH/LX Merger; What Will Happen With Munich?

Mon Mar 14, 2005 6:59 am

Would this make LX effectively a Star alliance partner, or would it stay in any existing alliances, and or codeshare agreements?
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Avianca
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RE: LH/LX Merger; What Will Happen With Munich?

Mon Mar 14, 2005 7:01 am

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 1):
MUC won't suffer, ZRH will bet turned into a regional hub with maybe 6 intercontinental LH/LX routes if they're lucky. And you can bet half of those will be served by other STAR members.

totally corect, as the LH terminal is half payed by Lufthansa.
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StevenUhl777
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RE: LH/LX Merger; What Will Happen With Munich?

Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:30 am

UA is one of those carriers, having just restarted (not too long ago) the IAD-ZRH run.

Does UA use 763 (like as before) or did they upgrade it to a 772?
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reifel
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RE: LH/LX Merger; What Will Happen With Munich?

Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:38 am

Avianca, what you mean is that actually LH owns an important percentage of shares in that Terminal (or the consortium/holding/whatever that holds it) right? Does anybody have exact facts of the organisation of this?
 
ZRH
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RE: LH/LX Merger; What Will Happen With Munich?

Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:40 am

I also think that MUC won't suffer. But in the today's press releases there are interesting statements, that LH would keep almost all existing long-haul operations out of Zurich. In the NZZ (Neue Zürcher Zeitung) online there is an interesting quote that it even could be possible to increase the number of long-haul aircrafts in Zurich from 18 to 20 http://www.nzz.ch/2005/03/13/wi/articleCNPRF.html (only in German)
 
Avianca
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RE: LH/LX Merger; What Will Happen With Munich?

Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:45 am

Quoting Reifel (Reply 5):
Avianca, what you mean is that actually LH owns an important percentage of shares in that Terminal (or the consortium/holding/whatever that holds it) right? Does anybody have exact facts of the organisation of this?

The terminal 2 of MUC airport is half financed by Lufthansa, and LH and the partners are using the terminal exclusive. I think there is a consortium between LH and the Munich Airport Management company FMG.

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Avianca
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ZRH
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RE: LH/LX Merger; What Will Happen With Munich?

Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:58 am

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 4):
Does UA use 763 (like as before) or did they upgrade it to a 772?


UA uses 763:

See here
Go to arrivals or departures and search for "Washington"

[Edited 2005-03-14 01:03:25]

[Edited 2005-03-14 01:04:35]
 
reifel
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RE: LH/LX Merger; What Will Happen With Munich?

Mon Mar 14, 2005 9:20 am

Quoting ZRH" class=quote target=_blank>ZRH (Reply 6):
But in the today's press releases there are interesting statements, that LH would keep almost all existing long-haul operations out of Zurich. In the NZZ (Neue Zürcher Zeitung) online there is an interesting quote that it even could be possible to increase the number of long-haul aircrafts in Zurich from 18 to 20

Seems logic to me... after all, long-haul-routes of Swiss are doing well compared to the short-haul intra-european flights.
2nd aspect: Switzerland, and especially the region around Zurich which is very crowded, quite rich, requires flights from Zurich and wont not fly to MUC or FRA first... There is also an important density of companies requiring business travel from/to ZRH.
 
kkfla737
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RE: LH/LX Merger; What Will Happen With Munich?

Mon Mar 14, 2005 9:23 am

I believe Zurich will be used almost exclusively as a transcontinebtal hub if the merger goes through with limited intra-Europe flights
 
ZRH
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RE: LH/LX Merger; What Will Happen With Munich?

Mon Mar 14, 2005 9:26 am

Quoting Kkfla737 (Reply 10):
I believe Zurich will be used almost exclusively as a transcontinebtal hub if the merger goes through with limited intra-Europe flights

There is not enough O/D traffic for this. It would need quite a number of feeder flights.
 
Avianca
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RE: LH/LX Merger; What Will Happen With Munich?

Mon Mar 14, 2005 9:33 am

ZRH would be perfect for a B737BBJ or A319 intercontinental operation like AF do or even LX to EWR.

But personal I do not think they will close or cancel many flights. They will consolidate the hub, cut maybe 30 percent of the flights ....

For example AMS KL hub was also not closed after mergin with AF.
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ZRH
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RE: LH/LX Merger; What Will Happen With Munich?

Mon Mar 14, 2005 9:42 am

Quoting Reifel (Reply 9):
. after all, long-haul-routes of Swiss are doing well compared to the short-haul intra-european flights.

You are probably right. Swiss' long-haul flights are filled by 85%, but I actually don't know the yields. It is true that they are loosing the most money on regional European flights with small planes (EMB 145 and Saab 2000) and on some other European routes because of the no frills airlines.
 
JoFMO
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RE: LH/LX Merger; What Will Happen With Munich?

Mon Mar 14, 2005 1:39 pm

I don't see MUC naturally that uneffected. So far LH only had the option to introduce a new long haul in FRA and MUC. But because FRA is so crowded the decision was could usually only be made for MUC. Now MUC has to compete with ZRH.
MUC has a broader feeder network but to most bigger cities ZRH is equally connected. And ZRH is the better O&D market. With the huge German market behind them LH can route it's passengers as good via ZRH than MUC.

For this summer season LH begins a new nonstop MUC-IAD. Next year ZRH-IAD can be an as good option.
 
ORDagent
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RE: LH/LX Merger; What Will Happen With Munich?

Mon Mar 14, 2005 11:40 pm

According to the CNN article on change will be a focus on routing ZRH to FRA and MUC. The article also said that LH wants to capitalize on the brand appeal and premium traffic on LX. ZRH will stay a LH/LX hub but not nearly as large as MUC and FRA. IMHO the synergy will help both carriers.
 
atlantic
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RE: LH/LX Merger; What Will Happen With Munich?

Tue Mar 15, 2005 1:31 am

Quoting ORDagent (Reply 15):
LH wants to capitalize on the brand appeal and premium traffic on LX

expect the brand appeal to disappear. The reason people fly Swiss is exactly because it is not LH. There is no real synergy happening here, it is one company taking over another one and with it a quite interesting market.
 
ZRH
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RE: LH/LX Merger; What Will Happen With Munich?

Tue Mar 15, 2005 2:26 am

Quoting JoFMO (Reply 14):
Next year ZRH-IAD can be an as good option.

ZRH-IAD already exists, flown by the Star Alliance member UA.
 
glidepath73
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RE: LH/LX Merger; What Will Happen With Munich?

Tue Mar 15, 2005 3:36 am

It will be exiting to see what will ZRH be in one year after the LH take over!
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KWI
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RE: LH/LX Merger; What Will Happen With Munich?

Tue Mar 15, 2005 5:04 am

I'm very curious to know as to why LX hasn't considered the option of joining Skyteam? Although some may argue that there are enough Skyteam hubs in Europe, Paris, Rome, Milan, Amsterdam, and Prague, Star Alliance has quite a few too, Frankfurt, Munich, Vienna, Warsaw, Copenhagen (and Stockholm and Oslo, to a much lesser extent). I understand perfectly that the optimal Alliance for them was oneworld, because of Zurich's perfect location as a central European hub. But why haven't there been any discussions regarding Skyteam?


KWI
 
UAMAYBACH1239
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RE: LH/LX Merger; What Will Happen With Munich?

Tue Mar 15, 2005 6:20 am

I'm very curious to know as to why LX hasn't considered the option of joining Skyteam? Although some may argue that there are enough Skyteam hubs in Europe, Paris, Rome, Milan, Amsterdam, and Prague, Star Alliance has quite a few too, Frankfurt, Munich, Vienna, Warsaw, Copenhagen (and Stockholm and Oslo, to a much lesser extent). I understand perfectly that the optimal Alliance for them was oneworld, because of Zurich's perfect location as a central European hub. But why haven't there been any discussions regarding Skyteam?


KWI



Joining an alliance is a priveledge not a right. The existing members also vote on new members, and there is a initiation fee so to speak. If swiss was at all appealing to skyteam, DL would have kept pretty close tabs after SwissAir.
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jcded
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RE: LH/LX Merger; What Will Happen With Munich?

Tue Mar 15, 2005 6:32 am

UAMAYBACH1239 : Airfrance which is the most influential player in skyteam doesnt realy have a place for Swiss in Sky team, it simply doesnt fit into their route structure, also SkyTeam doesn't have the same quality levels that Star or OneWorld have.
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travellin'man
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RE: LH/LX Merger; What Will Happen With Munich?

Tue Mar 15, 2005 2:38 pm

I would think that they keep a lot of the intercontinental routes, because it's not just people flying from Zurich, and to a lesser extent Geneva, but the people that need to go there. The banks are a big draw, maybe the international organizations to a lesser degree, and that kind of commerce and activity needs to be linked directly to other major world financial and governmental hubs. Zurich may seem like less of a hub a few years from now, but it will definietly stay a gateway to certain important places IMHO. And maybe the service stays premium to these cities to conserve that traffic.
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aviationmaster
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RE: LH/LX Merger; What Will Happen With Munich?

Wed Mar 16, 2005 1:48 am

I think Lufthansa would be doing a huge error by just closing down the majority of long haul routes out of Zurich, plus I don't even think they would be gaining a huge number of new passengers by this.

If Zurich is downgraded and Lufthansa makes local passengers connect via their Hubs in Frankfurt or Munich, then it wouldn't even be sure if these passengers will take the pain to fly and connect via FRA or MUC. Because if that's the case, they might aswell also fly via Paris (AF), Amsterdam (KL) or London (BA) to get to any intercontinental destination.

And what happens to Munich? Like others have said, the Munich Hub won't be affected all that much.