ltbewr
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Drunk AA Pax LAX-JFK 3/18 Dies In Flight

Sun Mar 20, 2005 8:13 am

A male passanger on a LAX-JFK flight on AA Friday night (March 18th), died after a struggle with other passangers. He apparently was intoxicated, was harassing and physically threating the F/A's, some other male pax restrined him twice, and upon the 2nd restraining of him, he died. An investigation is in process. I learned of this from a Channel 4/NBC NYC TV 6 pm news report. I'll try to find out more about this. Anybody else whom has heard of this with further info, please add to this post. Thank you.
 
Newark777
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RE: Drunk AA Pax LAX-JFK 3/18 Dies In Flight

Sun Mar 20, 2005 8:36 am

Does anyone have a flight #? I couldn't find any stories about it on the news sites.

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
Theiler
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RE: Drunk AA Pax LAX-JFK 3/18 Dies In Flight

Sun Mar 20, 2005 3:25 pm

Can't wait to see the lawsuits over this one... as ridiculous as it will undoubtedly be.
 
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zippyjet
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RE: Drunk AA Pax LAX-JFK 3/18 Dies In Flight

Sun Mar 20, 2005 3:31 pm

Can't wait to see the lawsuits over this one... as ridiculous as it will undoubtedly be.





It's gonna be a photo finish to see who screws with AA, the flight crew and their passengers.
If that plane only had a button to eject rubbish in midair!
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OPNLguy
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RE: Drunk AA Pax LAX-JFK 3/18 Dies In Flight

Sun Mar 20, 2005 3:34 pm

Does anyone have any facts to confirm that the event actually happened? I've looked at sites for NY/LA papers and TV stations, and there's no mention at all.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
ua777222
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RE: Drunk AA Pax LAX-JFK 3/18 Dies In Flight

Sun Mar 20, 2005 5:27 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 6):
restrain him properly, cuffs, duct tape, etc and there'd be no need to restrain him twice. . . . hammer his ass upon landing. Simple as that.

two way street hero.

I see too much getting in the way of that happening. Not only would it require the f/a to over power the passenger there is too much all wrapped up in it all. In the same situation the pissed off passenger can take those tools and use them against the cabin crew and passengers. Force, false imprisonment, and other claims can all take the airline to court be it the airlines fault or not. If the passengers use their judgment and feel that the passenger is being unruly and needs to be detained they will do so. Not saying its the passengers job to secure the cabins but a lot of trust and judgment is left in the hands of the passengers.

It's the same passengers who help detain others that are expected to know their limits and know that alt. and other in-flight conditions can play a role in their attitude. It's b/c of all these reasons there aren't guns in the cabin and its b/c of these issues Air marshals are used. There is a possibility that one was aboard and was struggling with the passenger but until a formal report is given a lot is up in the air.

It's sad when airlines have to limit the amount of security they can offer due to lawsuits and possible danger. Hell it's sad any security is needed!

Thanks,

Matt
"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
 
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mariner
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RE: Drunk AA Pax LAX-JFK 3/18 Dies In Flight

Sun Mar 20, 2005 5:27 pm

Quoting Airlinelover (Reply 11):
Alcohol SHOULD be banned from flights AND airports..

Oh, get over yourselves, the pair of you. Alcohol has been served on planes since the dawn of flying - I would imagine Wilbur and Orville had a bottle standing by.

Yes, there is the occasional "incident". When you deal with the travelling public there are always "incidents", ask any CSA, and if you can't handle those, you're not all that good at your jobs.

The point of running an airline is for the benefit of the passengers, not to make the flight attendants lives a whole lot easier.

cheers

mariner
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aa777jr
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RE: Drunk AA Pax LAX-JFK 3/18 Dies In Flight

Sun Mar 20, 2005 6:32 pm

99% of flyers drink responsibly. There is no reason to ban all alcohol on flights because 1% of the flying community that drinks can't hold their booze. To suggest banning alcohol on flights is asinine.  crazy 

The easiest solution to this is have a inflight plan of action incase a passenger becomes intoxicated and then unruly. Through a straight-jacket on the guy, but don't take a right away from all the sane passengers.

Regards.
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
Tiger119
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RE: Drunk AA Pax LAX-JFK 3/18 Dies In Flight

Sun Mar 20, 2005 6:43 pm

Mariner, I just added you to my respected users list (and I don't do that often). I totally agree with you.

First, if someone is boarding the aircraft that is impaired, deny him or her boarding. If someone on board is getting to the point to where he or she is becoming impaired (or obnoxious, or being rude, or a pain in the a$$), cut him or her off. I have been flying on commercial airplanes since I was in knickers and I have yet to be on a plane where there was a passenger causing problems (alcohol related or other-wise). These incidents don't happen that often, just when it does happen, it's newsworthy to some people. And as far as banning alcohol on flights, I believe there would be a large number of unhappy campers. I fly several times a year and I like to have a couple of light beers on the flight, for several reasons. I don't cause any problems, I stay out of the way, I only ask for one when the flight attendant has time, not when they are busy doing something else.

As far as the law suits, I'm sure someone will file a lawsuit (in the US, anyone can file a law suit against anyone else for what ever reason he or she wants, the big deal comes down on what the judge decides to do with the law suit). Hopefully the judges will just toss the law suits out as being frivolous.
Flying is the second greatest thrill known to mankind, landing is the first!
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Drunk AA Pax LAX-JFK 3/18 Dies In Flight

Sun Mar 20, 2005 6:43 pm

Quoting UA777222 (Reply 12):
I see too much getting in the way of that happening. Not only would it require the f/a to over power the passenger there is too much all wrapped up in it all.

I never said the F/A had to do it - I made a general statement, anyone can restrain the asshole . . . if I'm on board, I'll be glad to . . . arm bar, floor meets face, duct tape meets wrist, next?

Quoting UA777222 (Reply 12):
Force, false imprisonment, and other claims can all take the airline to court be it the airlines fault or not.

Rather be judged by the jury than carried by the pallbearers if this asshole 'really' gets unruly.

Quoting Mariner (Reply 13):
Oh, get over yourselves, the pair of you. Alcohol has been served on planes since the dawn of flying - I would imagine Wilbur and Orville had a bottle standing by.

Yes, there is the occasional "incident". When you deal with the travelling public there are always "incidents", ask any CSA, and if you can't handle those, you're not all that good at your jobs.

Couldn't have said that better if I'd said it meself!  Smile

I expect bilge like that from AnnoyingF/A but I thought Airlinelover was smarter than that . . . .
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
ACDC8
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RE: Drunk AA Pax LAX-JFK 3/18 Dies In Flight

Sun Mar 20, 2005 6:46 pm

Banning alcohol on flights? Great idea, lets make flying even more unappealing! Aren't the airlines loosing enough money as it is? What's next, restraining pax if they ask for a second orange juice?
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
9844
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RE: Drunk AA Pax LAX-JFK 3/18 Dies In Flight

Sun Mar 20, 2005 6:52 pm

I rarely drink on flights for the same reason "dehydrate"...The last hour I might have a beer.

As far as the pax's. We will continue to see this.I think booze should be banned also..Think about the over all weight savings. :-}
 
Indio66
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RE: Drunk AA Pax LAX-JFK 3/18 Dies In Flight

Sun Mar 20, 2005 11:58 pm

Here is the story from our friends at the NY Post:

http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/41389.htm
 
Newark777
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RE: Drunk AA Pax LAX-JFK 3/18 Dies In Flight

Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:16 am

This was the plane, N335AA, if anyone is interested.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Rudy Chiarello



Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
ltbewr
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RE: Drunk AA Pax LAX-JFK 3/18 Dies In Flight

Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:30 am

Thanks for the link Indio66. The synopis for if the link goes dead:
3/18/05 - AA Flt. 4 - LAX-JFK - B-767
The person whom died was William Lee, 48, from Brooklyn, NY. He worked in the clothing business. He did have an asthma condition. Lee did have some drinks on the flight, and got agitated when in the last hour on the flight his request for a drink was delayed/refused. He then got agitated, threating violence toward an F/A and moving toward the cockpit. Apparently he ws angry due to a problem with a relationship. Seven (7) members of an international rugby team restrained him, placed plastic handcuffs on him. He continued to be agitated and the 7 pax took him to the gallery area to restrain him as the flight made an expidited priority landing at JFK. The Port Authority police and the NYC Queens County District Attorney is investigating possible criminal charges. It is unclear if he died on the a/c or after he left it or how much his restraint by the 7 men was involved with his death. He leaves behind a wife and elderly mother. The wife is very angry as to how this happened, that he was a churchgoing man, not a heavy drinker and at the way AA handled this and info about it for her.
This situation seems to be similar to where a pax went wild on a WN flight Dallas in August 2000 (?) and other pax on the flight restrained him and broke his neck in the process. Nobody was ever proscuted or charged after an investigation.

[Edited 2005-03-20 16:33:50]
 
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RE: Drunk AA Pax LAX-JFK 3/18 Dies In Flight

Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:53 am

Quoting Tiger119 (Reply 15):
If someone on board is getting to the point to where he or she is becoming impaired (or obnoxious, or being rude, or a pain in the a$$), cut him or her off.



Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 21):
Lee did have some drinks on the flight, and got agitated when in the last hour on the flight his request for a drink was delayed/refused. He then got agitated, threating violence toward an F/A and moving toward the cockpit.

Oh yeah! Just "cut them off"! That solves everything!  Yeah sure

And no, this is not "rare", this is all too common. Unless you've been a flight attendant, you have no clue.

A ban on alcohol, at least in coach, on domestic US flights up to 5 hours would be great. If you dont think you can go that long without a drink, hey...If you can't get help at Charter, please get help somewhere...

B
 
Indio66
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RE: Drunk AA Pax LAX-JFK 3/18 Dies In Flight

Mon Mar 21, 2005 1:14 am

There is a head shot of the passenger in the print edition of the Post, and he looks like a big boy. If I had to guess, I would say he's at least 275 pounds.

If he got out of control and tried to storm the cockpit (indeed, as the plane was getting close to NYC), then its hard to feel sorry for him.
 
KBOS
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RE: Drunk AA Pax LAX-JFK 3/18 Dies In Flight

Mon Mar 21, 2005 1:14 am

"He was never a big drinker," Lee's wife, Meena, told The Post about her church going husband. "He was never violent. That's the reason I don't believe it."

Lee, who had told the Boeing 767 cabin crew he was despondent over a breakup with his girlfriend....




sure sounds like a good "church going" husband......
I don't care if the sun don't shine, I do my drinkin in the evening time when I'm in Rhode Island
 
waterpolodan
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RE: Drunk AA Pax LAX-JFK 3/18 Dies In Flight

Mon Mar 21, 2005 1:25 am

This sounds eerily similar to the one episode of CSI las vegas that I've ever watched... If I remember correctly, a passenger had some kind of medical condition that caused him to act very aggressive and it seemed like he was trying to open the cabin door in flight (obviously impossible, but the average viewer doesn't know that) so the other passengers attacked him and beat him to death... the csi people tried to find enough evidence to convict them of murder, but I think they all got off. Interesting parallel.
 
Spike
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RE: Drunk AA Pax LAX-JFK 3/18 Dies In Flight

Mon Mar 21, 2005 1:44 am

What a mad scared country the US has become. If some guy wants another double scotch (let alone a beer to go with it), Asian airlines FAs smile, ask if they would like nuts too, and then go do their job in bringing it over. The poor guy needed some calm after a bust-up in a relationship, not attitude.
 
mrniji
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RE: Drunk AA Pax LAX-JFK 3/18 Dies In Flight

Mon Mar 21, 2005 1:53 am

Spike, you are back! I was missing you  Wink

I completely agree.. in the future, consumption of alcohol on board might be seen as an offense, leading to an FAA inquiry and corresponsing imprisonment in Guantanamo...  Yeah sure - is some peole don't behave after drinking alc on board, this does not mean that this should be banned at all...
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
schipholjfk
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RE: Drunk AA Pax LAX-JFK 3/18 Dies In Flight

Mon Mar 21, 2005 2:08 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 13):
Oh, get over yourselves, the pair of you. Alcohol has been served on planes since the dawn of flying - I would imagine Wilbur and Orville had a bottle standing by.

Just curious... why is it so difficult for people to give up alcohol for few hours while flying. People refrain from smoking or having sex on the plane or picking nose in public... why is it then so difficult to give up alcohol for few hours when flying? Alcohol dehydrates you and is really not the ideal drink when you are up in the sky. Besides look at some of the unruly behavior it creates that sometimes jeopardize the safety of other passengers. So what is wrong with water or other beverages for few lousy hours? You can be drunk as much as you want as soon as you land... is that so difficult?
The fun of flying... love it !!!
 
Spike
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RE: Drunk AA Pax LAX-JFK 3/18 Dies In Flight

Mon Mar 21, 2005 2:21 am

I've long viewed an aeroplane as a flying pub that is both exciting and takes you somewhere new from where you were. Drinking on-board adds to that relexed excitement and calms the nerves of many in a non-smoking environment.
But I do agree, in the US average flight times are so short that you should be able to forego that 'landing beer'. But to be attacked by an "international rugby team of seven" - who must have surely been heading to HK for the 7s btw, and then DIE is quite insame. Poor guy. Siounds like a bad situation handeled badly so i would guess the airline is at fault here.

Just my US$2bn.
 
mrniji
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RE: Drunk AA Pax LAX-JFK 3/18 Dies In Flight

Mon Mar 21, 2005 2:31 am

Quoting Schipholjfk (Reply 29):
People refrain from smoking or having sex on the plane or picking nose in public...

..are you sure? Big grin
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
AC345
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RE: Drunk AA Pax LAX-JFK 3/18 Dies In Flight

Mon Mar 21, 2005 2:34 am

Quoting Waterpolodan (Reply 25):
This sounds eerily similar to the one episode of CSI las vegas that I've ever watched

That's exactly what I was thinking. In that episode the guy was acting like a jerk, but the reason behind that was that he had encephalitis, which caused the behaviour problems. I know that hypoglycemia in diabetics causes them to become agitated and belligerent before they pass out.

In this case we don't know exactly what happened. The amount of alcohol (two beers and a vodka) he ingested, especially in a man of his size, shouldn't have been a problem. Maybe the alcohol interacted with the asthma medication, or some other medication he might have been taking. It sounds like the fight precipitated an asthma attack (or a heart attack), and the passenger died before anybody could do anything about it. Sad story in any case.
 
wjcandee
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RE: Drunk AA Pax LAX-JFK 3/18 Dies In Flight

Mon Mar 21, 2005 2:38 am

Has nobody noticed that he told folks that he was despondent over "the breakup with a GIRLFRIEND", yet his WIFE was quoted in the article? And quoted to say how churchgoing he was?

Oh...wait...is that what KBOS was talking about? Well...in any event, now THAT'S funny!
 
FLY2LIM
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RE: Drunk AA Pax LAX-JFK 3/18 Dies In Flight

Mon Mar 21, 2005 2:39 am

Funny how the people who see banning alcohol as a "breach of their rights" (blah blah blah) tend to be in the "21-25" age group. I am totally in favor of banning it completely. It serves no purpose, other than to feed the habit of those who, in many cases, cannot control themselves after a "couple of drinks".
I don't wish death upon anyone, even the assholes. However, this man (according to the story) crossed several lines and paid dearly for it.
Maybe his "church" can have a funeral for him that will, I suppose, be attended by his loving wife and his equally loving girlfriend.
ANNOYEDFA, I'm totally with you on this one.
FLY2LIM
Faucett. La primera linea aerea del Peru.
 
UAMAYBACH1239
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RE: Drunk AA Pax LAX-JFK 3/18 Dies In Flight

Mon Mar 21, 2005 2:42 am

Simple reason for my screename. This is on a regualr basis although not always at this level. Liquor should be banned from flights along with trash.

Keep in mind once you lose something it is gone for good. In any line of work or entertainment there will be jerks, who abuse people and rules. That being said the conditions of commercial aviation in the U.S. it is on a constant downward slope. Im sure flt. crews put up with a lot but I beleive drinks and other amenities were offered at the time of your employment, and you still chose to work in the aviation field.
a/c flown 737-222/322/522 757/747-1-2-4, 767-2-3, 777-2-3, A319-20, DC10-10-30, L1011-3-5, 727-222adv, MD85-90 flyourfri
 
Spike
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RE: Drunk AA Pax LAX-JFK 3/18 Dies In Flight

Mon Mar 21, 2005 2:50 am

How moralistic can you get!? I suppose you can prove his wife was Mrs. Faithull just waiting at home? How do you know if the girlfriend trouble is not infact the wife trouble? A guy dies inflight, after ordering another beer, at the hands of 7 rugby players. This should prove an interesting one for AA to explain!
 
mojo89
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RE: Drunk AA Pax LAX-JFK 3/18 Dies In Flight

Mon Mar 21, 2005 2:55 am

Quoting ANNOYEDFA (Reply 28):
feel no sympathy for him dieing or for his family. He brought it on himself.

My goodness. If you hate your job and the flying public so much, do us all a favor - find another job. If you are as old as your profile says then you can't have too many years invested as a F/A. Life is too short. Perhaps you could take some English classes. "Dieing" is properly spelled "dying". Spell check is at the bottom.  Wink
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. -Dr. Hunter S. Thompson
 
airgeek12
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RE: Drunk AA Pax LAX-JFK 3/18 Dies In Flight

Mon Mar 21, 2005 3:06 am

Oy.. that's horrible. Isn't there some kind of restraining devise or something f/As can use on DPs? (disgruntled pax)
 
skaggs
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RE: Drunk AA Pax LAX-JFK 3/18 Dies In Flight

Mon Mar 21, 2005 3:09 am

Quoting Waterpolodan (Reply 25):
the csi people tried to find enough evidence to convict them of murder, but I think they all got off. Interesting parallel.

I saw this episode too and thought the same thing you did. The CSI team did find enough evidence to charge the passengers but knew that any post 9-11 jury would never convict.

I would bet the same happens here. The guy was headed towards the cockpit in a rage sounds like. Self Defense.

This incident is proof that passengers will never let another 9-11 style attack happen again, or at least do everything in their power to stop it.

[Edited 2005-03-20 19:11:06]

[Edited 2005-03-20 19:16:08]
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.
 
airlinelover
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RE: Drunk AA Pax LAX-JFK 3/18 Dies In Flight

Mon Mar 21, 2005 3:26 am

I expect bilge like that from AnnoyingF/A but I thought Airlinelover was smarter than that . . . .

I understand that most people who drink on flights are fine. And I further understand that banning alcohol from flights would be a big blow to the public and the airlines. I maybe spoke a bit too harshly in my post.

Chris
Lets do some sexy math. We add you, subtract your clothes, divide your legs and multiply
 
qqflyboy
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RE: Drunk AA Pax LAX-JFK 3/18 Dies In Flight

Mon Mar 21, 2005 3:56 am

Spike... the same thing happened on Southwest a few years ago. An unruly pax was restrained by other pax on a LAS-SJC flight and died of suffocation. WN wasn't held liable, neither were the pax that held him down.

In this post 9/11 environment, pax will not wait to see if someone even tries to break down the cockpit door. As soon as it is thought to happen, it will end, quickly, and perhaps, violently. Too bad the pax on 9/11 didn't know what was coming... good thing the pax on this flight knew what could be coming.

Try to think of it this way... had the pax not been restrained, we could be here discussing a far more serious incident involving hundreds of people, not just one. And it's not paranoia. Anyone stupid enough to behave like that now should not be flying.
The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
 
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mariner
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RE: Drunk AA Pax LAX-JFK 3/18 Dies In Flight

Mon Mar 21, 2005 4:26 am

Schipholjfk:

Quoting Schipholjfk (Reply 29):
why is it so difficult for people to give up alcohol for few hours while flying. People refrain from smoking or having sex on the plane or picking nose in public... why is it then so difficult to give up alcohol for few hours when flying?

It isn't so difficult. I gave up smoking six months ago, and I gave up drinking, except on special occasions -

- such as my recent flight from LAX to AKL. It was a journey of about 13 hours, and I had a couple of glasses of wine to celebrate the new life I was flying to.

It is the concept of "banning" things that is so tedious. These days, it seems we legislate everything for the stupid few.

People have been running taverns for centuries, since beer was first invented, and yes, there are sometimes problems with drunks. Does this mean we close all taverns?

The majority of people in this world behave responsibly. But because of the occasional stupid actions of a very few, you want to legislate against the majority?

It is the Nanny State rampant.

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
TravelCMH
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RE: Drunk AA Pax LAX-JFK 3/18 Dies In Flight

Mon Mar 21, 2005 4:35 am

As a former American Airlines ticket, gate and operations agent for many years, I have just a few comments on this story that I would like to make. I also happen to have a master's degree in nursing and a masters degree in public health and epidemiology(so I can comment on both sides of this issue with some degree of insight).

I am not going to get into the area of passengers restraining other passengers, or the whole post 9/11 mentality, as I was not onboard the flight, and I honestly can not say what I would or would not do if placed in a situation similar to this.

I am however going to comment on a few salient points. First of all, American Airlines has a policy in place that clearly states how to handle a passenger that is appearing intoxicated prior to boarding and also one who becomes intoxicated while on board, either from consuming alcohol served by the cabin crew, or smuggled onboard illegally(yes this still happens on a regular basis). If this man appeared to have ANY intoxication signs prior to boarding, American Airlines and FAA rules mandate denied boarding. Period. Company policy (at least when I worked there) said that any boarding agent that allowed an intoxicated pax to board and was later caught could be fired on the spot or severely disciplined. I also know of some former Eagle employees who cost the company a $200,000 fine from the FAA for allowing a few intoxicated pax on board an Saab 340 a few years back. If this man were showing signs of being intoxicated on the ground, he never should have been boarded.

The other point that I wish to raise, is that people who appear intoxicated are not always abusing a substance. There are several medical conditions that can cause the same outward appearance of being drunk, and all of them are aggravated by being at altitude. Diabetics who are in the midst of a hypoglycemic reaction are often stopped by police as being suspected drunk drivers. In fact many people with diabetes carry cards in their wallet saying they are diabetic, so they will get treatment rather than thrown into the drunk tank in jail, only to die hours later from low blood sugar.

If this gentleman were upset or angry over some outside issue(like the breakup with his friend), he could have had a stroke, or an aneurysm rupture in his brain. 99% of people with aneurysms never even know they have them, and live full and productive lives. Often times they are found by accident during other medical tests(such as a CT scan after a car accident). Bleeding into the brain, and the increased intracranial pressure associated with it will cause a VERY similar reaction as to being intoxicated.

Finally we all have heard of the "economy class syndrome" and the issues of DVT on long flights. If one of those blood clots formed in this man's leg, and it broke loose and traveled to his lung, he could have developed a pulmonary embolisim. The lack of oxygen caused by this, or even his history of asthma and having an asthma attack can all cause someone to function irrationally and in an intoxicated and aggressive state.

The point I am trying to make is this: while I think that this passenger behaved badly, don't assume that he was drunk just because he had a couple of drinks. I would wait until the autopsy report comes in to see if there was something else going on here. There could be another explanation.
 
TomFoolery
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RE: Drunk AA Pax LAX-JFK 3/18 Dies In Flight

Mon Mar 21, 2005 4:36 am

Just as on any vessel, and aircraft alike, the Captain is responsable for EVERY PERSON onboard his/her ship. The aircrews have authority under the Captains command to maintain order and safety during the flight.
If it is in the opinion and the judgement of a flight officer that an individual can no longer maintain him or herself due to alcohol or other substances, than the flight crew should discontinue alcohol service to that individual. If the individual becomes disorderly, it is the flight crew's respnsability (under the Captains authority) to restore order as appropriate. I hope the US courts would not hear a wrongful death by Denial of Booze case, but sometimes they never cease to amaze me. I'm sure that there are many other factors that lead to this mans death, and I am not so foolish to point blame or cause, but if a person cant control his or her drinking (ie MODERATION), then it is up to the flight officers to cut him/her off.
Paper makes an airplane fly
 
skidmarks
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RE: Drunk AA Pax LAX-JFK 3/18 Dies In Flight

Mon Mar 21, 2005 4:54 am

Very well put TravelCMH, and a touch of sanity appears in the thread. Along with an obvious understanding of the many differrent reasons for such a tragic occurence.

It really doesn't matter wether the guy was roaring drunk, pissed because he had a relationship failure, or even struggled against 7 hairy-arsed rugby players. The fact of the matter is, he died, and he shouldn't have. I would guess it had nothing to do with any of the salient points put forawrd here, and more to do with a medical condition.

And, wether he was cheating on his wife, screwing a rugby team or insulting the F/A's, he didn't deserve to die.

Just my two bob's worth.

Andy  old 
Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional
 
MD11LuxuryLinr
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RE: Drunk AA Pax LAX-JFK 3/18 Dies In Flight

Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:01 am

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 33):
Has nobody noticed that he told folks that he was despondent over "the breakup with a GIRLFRIEND", yet his WIFE was quoted in the article? And quoted to say how churchgoing he was?

Oh...wait...is that what KBOS was talking about? Well...in any event, now THAT'S funny!

I agree.. and don't forget, they didn't know why he was in LA..  scratchchin 
Caution wake turbulence, you are following a heavy jet.
 
Jetmek319
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RE: Drunk AA Pax LAX-JFK 3/18 Dies In Flight

Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:17 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 43):
It is the concept of "banning" things that is so tedious. These days, it seems we legislate everything for the stupid few.

I must agree...Why do we have to try to regulate self-control?? If the passenger couldn't control himself, why should the rest of the public be restricted. If you can't handle your booze, don't drink it. If you can't handle it, get help. If you choose not to get help, prepare for the consequences.

Jetmek319
Never, ever moon a werewolf !!
 
PMN
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RE: Drunk AA Pax LAX-JFK 3/18 Dies In Flight

Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:18 am

TravelCMH, I was going to write a long message on this thread, but basically you've summed up pretty much everything I wanted to say (albeit with a lot more medical knowledge). It seems to me that our planet may have just un-necessarily lost a decent, caring human being, and because it is assumed by some that alcohol was the reason he acted the way he did, it is implied that he almost deserved to die. People are affected by problems in many different ways. How is it justifiable to make a statement such as "liquor should be banned from flights along with trash" based on these circumstances? This may well be the first time William Lee has ever been involved in an incident like this. Do some people genuinely not think his death could have been avoided? Why are some people so quick to totally write off others? Perhaps it's just ignorance. I wish I knew.
Edith in his bed, a plane in the rain is humming, the wires in the walls are humming some song - some mysterious song
 
gothamspotter
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RE: Drunk AA Pax LAX-JFK 3/18 Dies In Flight

Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:48 am

Alcohol by nature does not cause people to act crazy, it is a depressant that makes people calm. Coincidentally, many humans still have hangups about flying 600mph in a metal tube 7 miles above the Earth. Of the millions of passengers in the air every year, only a miniscule fraction gets out of line as a result of alcohol. Without booze, the number of agitated passengers who flip out would be significantly higher, IMHO.
 
A999
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RE: Drunk AA Pax LAX-JFK 3/18 Dies In Flight

Mon Mar 21, 2005 6:19 am

It`s a pity the rugby team didn`t fly September 11th!!!!!
 
lnglive1011yyz
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RE: Drunk AA Pax LAX-JFK 3/18 Dies In Flight

Mon Mar 21, 2005 7:51 am

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 8):
can you imagine a flight full of ANNOYEDFA?s that would be the flight form hell

No, that'd be a flight on Air Canada.

ooooooooh

HAHA

(just kidding, everyone don't kill me)

1011yyz
Pack your bags, we're going on a sympathy trip!
 
ZID
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RE: Drunk AA Pax LAX-JFK 3/18 Dies In Flight

Mon Mar 21, 2005 9:28 am

Reading this article convinces me that humanity needs another forty days and forty nights and one ark.

The egregious number of people who have condemned this man based upon absolutely nothing more than heresay, and these same people who have shown no remorse for the death of a fellow human being.

Then the people that have voiced an opinion that us worthless passengers should all be bound and gagged so that we won't bother the high and mighty flight attendants.

And lastly the incredible number of people who have attacked ANNOYEDFA for suggesting that their precious life giving drug, alcohol, be banned.

The inhuman and inhumane arrogance and false superiority displayed in this thread is disgusting.

90% of you need to take a serious look in the mirror and try and figure out what in the heck your problem is, and get some help before it's too late.
I'm not joking! This is my job!
 
fetheroleather
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RE: Drunk AA Pax LAX-JFK 3/18 Dies In Flight

Mon Mar 21, 2005 9:51 am

Quoting A999 (Reply 51):

How old are you?
 
NIKV69
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RE: Drunk AA Pax LAX-JFK 3/18 Dies In Flight

Mon Mar 21, 2005 10:53 am

I wish congress would enact a law that automatically puts any individual that disrupts any flight in US jurisdiction in jail for at least 30 days! This has to stop and quickly!
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
ltbewr
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RE: Drunk AA Pax LAX-JFK 3/18 Dies In Flight

Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:06 pm

A local (NY City, NBC Ch. 4, 6 pm) TV news report, on Sunday gave attention to this story. Apparently the wife is very angry at the situation that led to her husband's death and is considering civil legal actions against AA. Most probably his asthma condition contributed to his death, although is bad and possibly illegal beheavor unfortunatly led to the need to restrain him. Apparently there wasn't a Air Marsahll on this flight, which shows how effective they really are and able to cover our flights. So people took the law and their protection into their own hands, with apparently an unfortuate turn of events.
As I have suggested before, as to boarding of potential drunks, I think they should be handheld drunk testers available to CSA's or perhaps the airport police. If the person would be illegal to drive (in the USA, .08%) then "if high, then you don't fly". Let us also not forget that a person leaving a flight drunk may be driving from the airport, or their intoxication can lead to an accidential injury (like from a fall).
 
FLY2LIM
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RE: Drunk AA Pax LAX-JFK 3/18 Dies In Flight

Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:22 pm

Quoting ZID (Reply 44):
Reading this article convinces me that humanity needs another forty days and forty nights and one ark.

The egregious number of people who have condemned this man based upon absolutely nothing more than heresay, and these same people who have shown no remorse for the death of a fellow human being.

Then the people that have voiced an opinion that us worthless passengers should all be bound and gagged so that we won't bother the high and mighty flight attendants.

And lastly the incredible number of people who have attacked ANNOYEDFA for suggesting that their precious life giving drug, alcohol, be banned.

The inhuman and inhumane arrogance and false superiority displayed in this thread is disgusting.

90% of you need to take a serious look in the mirror and try and figure out what in the heck your problem is, and get some help before it's too late.

With all due respect, who died and made you BILLY GRAHAM? Anyone who has responded negatively about this man is assuming the reports provided by the television station is accurate. Therefore, we are all assuming that the man:

1) Appeared drunk
2) Harassed the FAs on board
3) Charged the cockpit and needed restraining
4) Had a wife and attended church
5) Kept a lover, in clear moral and ethical violation of item 4

With that in mind, everyone who posts here has a right to express an opinion. In my own opinion, alcohol is a substance that CANNOT be handled by a certain percentage of the population. I was raised by an alcoholic father. No, he didn't beat me, he didn't abuse me, he took good care of me, I'm not bitter at him, nor do I hate him. In fact, he is my source of inspiration and part of the reason I am who I am. However, he was a person who had problems with alcohol that, eventually, led him to live the life he currently is living.
In addition, at the age of 17, I was hit head on by a drunk driver. I shouldn't be here typing today. For some strange reason, I walked away from an accident I should not have survived.
My own conclusion is that the world can live without alcohol being served in situations that bring high anxiety or extreme behaviors on people, like flying 600 mph on a steel tube for 13 hours. I have heard dozens of stories of people who are drunk and cause nothing but trouble aboard an aircraft.
If you want to preach, go to preachers.com. Don't tell me I have no right to my own opinion on a subject I know very well.

FLY2LIM
Faucett. La primera linea aerea del Peru.
 
airgeek12
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RE: Drunk AA Pax LAX-JFK 3/18 Dies In Flight

Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:38 pm

I'm kinda suprised (other) news networks didn't make a bigger deal of this. Or maybe they just don't know about it. = /