ZRH
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LH Says Two More 340 For LX

Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:37 am

In the today's Sonntags Zeitung of Zurich there is an article about the LH/LX deal. They write that LH offered that Swiss stays a company (not only brand) within the LH group and that it should get two extra A 340 (which would make 20 long-haul aircrafts, 9 330-200, 11 340-300) to serve Shanghai, Singapore direct, Buenos Aires and an other destination in north America (not named). If it was true it would be interesting. But how long would this last? Here is the link (only in German):
http://www.sonntagszeitung.ch/dyn/news/fokus/480358.html

[Edited 2005-03-20 21:45:11]
 
RJ100
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RE: LH Says Two More 340 For LX

Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:46 am

I think the new aircraft are needed to go daily on some routes (the routes now served 5x weekly).

LH probably wants to see if the frequency increase will have a positive effect on the whole longhaul system.

Regards,
RJ100
none
 
ZRH
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RE: LH Says Two More 340 For LX

Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:53 am

Quoting RJ100 (Reply 1):
LH probably wants to see if the frequency increase will have a positive effect on the whole longhaul system.

You could be right. Actually if the long-hauls out of ZRH earned money this would be good for LH and not anymore a competition. They also could offer more possibilities to their costumers, specifically from Switzerland, Italy, out of some parts of France and Austria.
 
ba319-131
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RE: LH Says Two More 340 For LX

Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:59 am

Interesting, especially since LX cancelled their last 2 343 orders.
111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
 
PPVRA
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RE: LH Says Two More 340 For LX

Mon Mar 21, 2005 6:00 am

So is LX's long haul fleet being under utilized? Just that Singapore direct flight should keep these two new A340s busy. No idea how they plan on Shangai as well. As for the other flights, are they just planning on extending the new flight to North America from one of their destinations there and in South America extend GRU to EZE?

PPVRA
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
RJ100
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RE: LH Says Two More 340 For LX

Mon Mar 21, 2005 6:01 am

Exactly. My opinion is that if you operate a longhaul fleet then do it right. If SWISS in the future operates a longhaul hub out of ZRH then (in my opinion) they should serve the most important destinations daily (so that the good paying passengers chose SWISS instead of another carrier) and the niche routes (Africa) at least 2-3x weekly (they generate high yields even without daily rotations).

One problem so far could have been that they operated some destinations only a few times weekly and therefore a lot of (goodpaying) passengers went to the competition, whilst more low yield passengers flew with SWISS.

Just a thought.  Wink

Regards,
RJ100
none
 
B742
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RE: LH Says Two More 340 For LX

Mon Mar 21, 2005 6:06 am

Is BKK currently served daily? I know the flight currently continues onto SIN, but it would be great to see a direct SIN service!

What is the frequency on JFK?

Rob!
 
Avianca
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RE: LH Says Two More 340 For LX

Mon Mar 21, 2005 6:13 am

It would be make sense to get stronger to Star Hubs...

Direct Flights to SIN
New flights again to IAD
New flights to YYZ

and flights to China, (PEK and PVG)
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
ZRH
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RE: LH Says Two More 340 For LX

Mon Mar 21, 2005 6:18 am

Quoting B742 (Reply 6):
What is the frequency on JFK?

The actual Swiss frequency to JFK is a daily A 330-200 or A 340-300 out of ZRH and a daily A 332 flight out of GVA. They also code-share (vice versa) with the daily AA 767-300 flight between ZRH and JFK. There is also a BBJ service daily ZRH-EWR.
 
bill142
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RE: LH Says Two More 340 For LX

Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:23 am

Doesnt LX have A346 on order? or did that get cancelled as it was placed by the former Swissair?
 
N754PR
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RE: LH Says Two More 340 For LX

Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:35 am

I was going to say the same thing as BA319.... LX just cancelled their own A343's still on order.
Bush, your a sad, sad man.
 
ZRH
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RE: LH Says Two More 340 For LX

Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:41 am

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 9):
Doesnt LX have A346 on order?

SR had 340-600 on order, but LX cancelled it.
 
yul332LX
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RE: LH Says Two More 340 For LX

Mon Mar 21, 2005 9:31 am

Quoting N754PR (Reply 10):
LX just cancelled their own A343's still on order.

They did cancel in 2003 a couple of 343s on order but last month, they were reconsidering the possibility of adding two 343s to increase frequency to the existent network.

So, LH has actually nothing to do with this rumour/decision
E volavo, volavo felice più in alto del sole, e ancora più su mentre il mondo pian piano spariva lontano laggiù ...
 
ContinentalEWR
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RE: LH Says Two More 340 For LX

Mon Mar 21, 2005 10:47 am

The LX BBJ flight operated by PrivatAir is actually a six day a week service. It does not operate Saturdays. As it caters to business travellers, who will most likely not fly on Saturday nights.

ContinentalEWR
 
ZRH
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RE: LH Says Two More 340 For LX

Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:34 am

Quoting YUL332LX (Reply 12):
They did cancel in 2003 a couple of 343s on order but last month, they were reconsidering the possibility of adding two 343s to increase frequency to the existent network.

So, LH has actually nothing to do with this rumour/decision

Yes, Swiss wanted to get some more long-distance aircrafts, but they did not know where to get the money from. Now, when LH agrees to expand the long-haul network of LX, it becomes possible. For this it has actually something to do with LH.
 
JoFMO
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RE: LH Says Two More 340 For LX

Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:55 pm

I wonder what the new direct ZRH-SIN means. LX still serves SIN via BKK, so they already have a direct flight to SIN. Or is it a typical press error saying direct when they mean nonstop?

Regarding the mentioned new north American destination I would say LX gives a comeback to IAD combined with a codeshare partner change from AA to UA.

Maybe LX could get some of the recently ordered new A346.
 
HB-IWC
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RE: LH Says Two More 340 For LX

Mon Mar 21, 2005 1:36 pm

Quoting ZRH" class=quote target=_blank>ZRH (Thread starter):
In the today's Sonntags Zeitung of Zurich there is an article about the LH/LX deal. They write that LH offered that Swiss stays a company (not only brand) within the LH group and that it should get two extra A 340 (which would make 20 long-haul aircrafts, 9 330-200, 11 340-300) to serve Shanghai, Singapore direct, Buenos Aires and an other destination in north America (not named). If it was true it would be interesting. But how long would this last?

Lufthansa has obviously had to compromise in order to win the Swiss for this deal. If they had come out with their real plans for the airline and its ZRH and GVA hubs, there would have been no way LX would have ever gone for it. So, therefore this sweetener: LX can keep its brand, its hubs, its longhaul network, and an extra 2 wide body aircraft.

However, what will the situation be two years down the road? Lufthansa will be calling the shots at LX, and they will want to cash in on their investment. That will mean down scaling by eliminating duplicate service and moving other services to their FRA and MUC hubs.

As for the destinations mentioned in the article: there is obviously a future for Swiss in China. Lufthansa will not get its hands on the necessary traffic rights as soon as it would want to, so the dormant Swissair/Swiss rights will ofer a way out. Swiss holds 5 weekly rights to China.

I also expect that Lufthansa will make full use of Swiss' dormant rights into India. Seven weekly frequencies to BOM are operated, but rights into DEL are currently inactive. Expect them to be reactivated again.

I don't see nonstop operations into Singapore. Lufthansa couldn't even make their own MUC-SIN a success and furthermore, SQ is operating daily on the SIN-ZRH route. If anything, expect LX to give up SIN altogether in favor of a daily codeshare with Star partner SQ. Swiss will be lucky to keep a daily BKK connection, although also TG is operating the route.

As for South America, I would find it highly illogical that Lufthansa would have LX operating nonstop flights in to EZE, right after giving up their own nonstop flights there. Again, Swiss will be lucky if they can keep the GRU flight, which would preferably be operated daily, and can feed some extra passengers into LH's GRU-EZE and GRU-SCL flights.

Finally, regarding the new destination in North America, that should be IAD, an important STAR hub. Reopening IAD might come at the expense of LX flights into MIA though. Swiss is feeding a lot of AA connecting traffic through its MIA flights, and as the relationship with AA is obviously on a dead track, the opportunity of feeding into AA's large Central American and Carribean network at MIA will eventually come to an end, making the MIA flight somewhat redundant.

All in all, despite these press releases, I believe we have yet to see the real scope of implications of the emerging cooperation between Lufthansa and Swiss. It is far too early to tell what will happen to the Swiss brand, its hubs, and its longhaul network.
 
airmale
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RE: LH Says Two More 340 For LX

Mon Mar 21, 2005 4:15 pm

Why would LX want to get back into IAD? It is already operated by UA on a daily basis...... a double daily to IAD would be too much...
.....up there with the best!
 
Ndebele
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RE: LH Says Two More 340 For LX

Mon Mar 21, 2005 4:40 pm

So if LX gets two additional A340s, don't you think these might be ex-LH aircraft?
 
HB-IWC
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RE: LH Says Two More 340 For LX

Mon Mar 21, 2005 4:55 pm

Quoting AirMale (Reply 17):
Why would LX want to get back into IAD? It is already operated by UA on a daily basis...... a double daily to IAD would be too much...

Because IAD is a STAR gateway to North America, and Swiss/United would start feeding connecting traffic through Dulles, much in the same way as Swiss now feeds into AA's hubs at MIA, ORD and DFW. And before that Swiss used to operate (code-share) flights into ATL and CVG, because that was were Delta's connecting flights were located.

If Swiss indeed becomes a STAR member, then one daily UA B763ER will not do the job of carrying all that connecting traffic. FRA has four daily IAD connections, and MUC will soon have two as well. Expect therefore Swiss to operate its own IAD flight besides the already existing UA connection. We might even see United open an ORD-ZRH flight, to complement LX's daily service on the route.
 
johnnybgoode
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RE: LH Says Two More 340 For LX

Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:27 pm

it doubt that LH would transfer two of its A343s to LX because LH seems to have quite a heavily utilized long-haul fleet. since the additional A346s won't arrive until 2006, i doubt that LH could lose two of its birds.

i realize that the article mentions two A343s, but what about the two ex-LX A332s that LH still operates? i understand that they're leased from Airbus but they used to be operated by LX and they share absolutely every specification of the rest of LX's fleet.
If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
 
N754PR
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RE: LH Says Two More 340 For LX

Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:29 pm

Swiss has only just cancelled the last A340's on option.
Bush, your a sad, sad man.
 
ka
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RE: LH Says Two More 340 For LX

Mon Mar 21, 2005 7:02 pm

Quoting Johnnybgoode (Reply 20):
i realize that the article mentions two A343s, but what about the two ex-LX A332s that LH still operates?

LH is not operating any ex-LX A332 anymore. Those were 3 and they are all parked in CGN for Bluewings. What they still operate are 2 ex-SN A332 (D-AIMD/ME). They have a very similar config but offer crewrest-compartments, which the LX-A332 do not have - that would come handy for reopening flights to China.
On the other hand hand LH will take the 2 ex-SN A343 (D-AIMF/MG) out of service this autumn. I expect to see these 2 a/c in LX c/s soon, though with a cabin upgrade to fit the LX-fleet nicely.

KA.
Keep smiling - you might be on Radar!
 
glidepath73
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RE: LH Says Two More 340 For LX

Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:15 pm

I think only time can tell what will go on with ZRH as a Hub and LX as a group- member of LH.
Right now this looks not bad. Let's hope that LH will do all the things they promised to SWISS.
I even think they could fill two or maybe four more A332/343 out from ZRH.
With LH in the background there is a big demand into China for example.
Do you guys think we will see one day A346's in SWISS livery operating out from ZRH?

Regards,
Patrick
Aviation! That rocks...
 
yul332LX
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RE: LH Says Two More 340 For LX

Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:57 pm

Quoting ZRH (Reply 14):
Now, when LH agrees to expand the long-haul network of LX, it becomes possible. For this it has actually something to do with LH

Again, LH may make it possible financially but it is not LH’s decision to increase LX’s fleet. LX management has already been planning this for a couple of months.
E volavo, volavo felice più in alto del sole, e ancora più su mentre il mondo pian piano spariva lontano laggiù ...
 
yul332LX
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RE: LH Says Two More 340 For LX

Tue Mar 22, 2005 12:26 am

E volavo, volavo felice più in alto del sole, e ancora più su mentre il mondo pian piano spariva lontano laggiù ...
 
United Airline
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RE: LH Says Two More 340 For LX

Tue Mar 22, 2005 12:57 am

Does that mean that LX will join Star Alliance?
 
ZRH
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RE: LH Says Two More 340 For LX

Tue Mar 22, 2005 2:52 am

Quoting United Airline (Reply 26):
Does that mean that LX will join Star Alliance?

Most probably yes. LX be will 100% member of the LH group. The network will be completely integrated and network management made in FRA. I can't see that they do that without LX being member of Star Alliance.
 
A350
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RE: LH Says Two More 340 For LX

Tue Mar 22, 2005 3:36 am

Maybe with the new situation it makes sense to re-order a few A340-600s. They could be used for destinations like NRT there LH suffers a lack of slots.

A350
 
ChrisZRH
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RE: LH Says Two More 340 For LX

Tue Mar 22, 2005 4:16 am

346 could definately be used!! BKK could be easely served with the long -600. as said before they should do their long-hauls daily + add a few frequencies, but that would mean definately more than just 2 more 340s
probably they will do as SR did, some flights direct to SIN + some of them via BKK

Just keep going LX!!!
Christian Galliker - AirTeamImages
 
PADSpot
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RE: LH Says Two More 340 For LX

Tue Mar 22, 2005 6:05 am

Hey,

regarding the 3 leased former LH 332:

on the cgn-forum it was said that Blue Wings has already lost control over D-AXEL and that it was already reregistered to D-AIMA. So ILFC is only storing them at CGN as long as those remote positions are not needed anyway.

Here is the unfortunately german source:

http://www.cgn-forum.de/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=720&whichpage=1

cheers,
Jan

[Edited 2005-03-21 22:14:54]
 
HB-IWC
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RE: LH Says Two More 340 For LX

Tue Mar 22, 2005 3:26 pm

Quoting ZRH (Reply 27):
The network will be completely integrated and network management made in FRA.

If network management, including route planning and analysis, is indeed transfered to FRA, that'll be that for Swiss. Network management goes about all strategic decisions, and one can expect that Lufthansa will not leave a stone unturned in their quest for return on their investment. As I said before, the Germans have had to make concessions during the current negotiations, but we'll see what the situation will be in two years when the shots will be called in Frankfurt. This whole story is starting to sound terribly similar to the Swissair-Sabena cooperation. Only with the Swiss in a differnt position right now.

Quoting A350 (Reply 28):
They could be used for destinations like NRT there LH suffers a lack of slots.

NRT is nowhere nearly as pressing for Lufthansa as China and India. If LH were to be in dire need of extra capacity to NRT, they could just upgrade the 6 weekly MUC frequencies to larger equipment, or move them over to FRA.

The real problem for Lufthansa is in India and China, where growth is colossal, but extra freqencies are hard to get by. You can bet your grandmother that Lufthansa is going to make optimal use of Swiss' 7 dormant frequencies to DEL as well as its 5 weekly rights into China.
 
JoFMO
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RE: LH Says Two More 340 For LX

Tue Mar 22, 2005 9:57 pm

LH has no problem with slots in China. Germany just reached a new bilateral agreement with China and they negotiated an increase of 50% for a German carrier. So LH could expand if they want. MUC-PVG could be expanded form daily 343 to 744 and MUC-PEK is only 3x weekly 343. CAN could loose it's tag to CAN too.
So there is enough room for expansion in China.

India is a complete different story.
 
HB-IWC
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RE: LH Says Two More 340 For LX

Tue Mar 22, 2005 10:42 pm

Quoting JoFMO (Reply 32):
LH has no problem with slots in China.

Given Lufthansa's statement that they wish to triple existing capacity within the next few years, they are bound to run into trouble sooner rather than later. I'm pretty sure therefore that Swiss' dormant rights to China will be reactivated in the short term.