6thfreedom
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Aust-EC Bilateral Talks And Possible UK Talks

Tue Mar 22, 2005 4:52 pm

In a few weeks, Australia will hold talks with the EC, which is hoped will allow air services talks with an number of European countries, including the UK.

So what does this mean??

Well, the most important outcome is permission for talks with the UK, which will allow QF to increase UK services beyond 28pw, which is where they are stuck at now. (17 pw via SIN, 7 pw via BKK and 4pw via HKG)

Furthermore, it would allow VS to increase Australia services, which it desperately needs (refer to thread re: VS HKG-SYD services). Should additional intermediate points be granted, it also opens the door for possible UK-Aust services via China.

The other issue which these talks will have an influence on is SQ's opportunity for Aust-USA services. A favourable outcome at these talks will increase pressure on the Australian govt to allow SQ on the sector.

Any other views on this???
 
JoFMO
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RE: Aust-EC Bilateral Talks And Possible UK Talks

Wed Mar 23, 2005 1:14 am

Is there hope for an open sky agreement between EU and Australia?
 
cornish
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RE: Aust-EC Bilateral Talks And Possible UK Talks

Wed Mar 23, 2005 1:17 am

Quoting 6thfreedom (Thread starter):
Well, the most important outcome is permission for talks with the UK, which will allow QF to increase UK services beyond 28pw, which is where they are stuck at now. (17 pw via SIN, 7 pw via BKK and 4pw via HKG)

Furthermore, it would allow VS to increase Australia services, which it desperately needs (refer to thread re: VS HKG-SYD services). Should additional intermediate points be granted, it also opens the door for possible UK-Aust services via China.

All very reliant of course on additional slots being found at LHR for additional services, as i can't see QF wanting to operate anywhere else in the UK when they can codeshare with BA.
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
6thfreedom
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RE: Aust-EC Bilateral Talks And Possible UK Talks

Wed Mar 23, 2005 6:40 am

Quoting Cornish (Reply 2):
All very reliant of course on additional slots being found at LHR for additional services, as i can't see QF wanting to operate anywhere else in the UK when they can codeshare with BA.

Cornish, you may recall that QF purchased some additional slots at LHR about 12 months ago.....

From what i understand, there were some slots in the 0700-0800 hour, which are currently being utilised with QF's SYD-HKG-LHR services.

The remaining slots purchased were in the 1300-1400 hour. This is an interesting one, as it would require an 2300-0000 departure ex MEL or SYD to utlise these slots. QF31 currently operates as per below.
10:15p SYD 1 12:15p+1 LHR 4 QF 31 1-Stop 744 23:00

so i would think the new services/slots would operate ex-MEL with a midnight departure..
 
David_itl
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RE: Aust-EC Bilateral Talks And Possible UK Talks

Wed Mar 23, 2005 6:46 am

Quoting Cornish (Reply 2):
All very reliant of course on additional slots being found at LHR for additional services, as i can't see QF wanting to operate anywhere else in the UK when they can codeshare with BA.

And then QF go off in a huff and a puff when MH, EK and SQ all transport a large number of pax from MAN to Australia (and with EK, we can throw in the addition of GLA + BHX departures!).

David
 
ozglobal
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RE: Aust-EC Bilateral Talks And Possible UK Talks

Wed Mar 23, 2005 7:32 am

Any news on daily CDG access for QF? Lack of this was cited as the reason for their pull-out last year.
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
 
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FlyCaledonian
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RE: Aust-EC Bilateral Talks And Possible UK Talks

Wed Mar 23, 2005 8:27 am

Who says that if the talks go ahead, and something comes from them, that VS would get additional rights to serve Australia?  Wink I'd imagine BA, and even BD the way its going, to be interested.
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6thfreedom
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RE: Aust-EC Bilateral Talks And Possible UK Talks

Wed Mar 23, 2005 11:30 am

Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 6):
Who says that if the talks go ahead, and something comes from them, that VS would get additional rights to serve Australia? I'd imagine BA, and even BD the way its going, to be interested.

given the joint service agreement between BA and QF, I have no doubt that both the UK and Australian government will be liberal in granting rights.

this is my guess.

14 additional services pw immediately, and 14pw in 2006-07.

This result would allow:
VS to add a second daily service to SYD
BA to add an extra service to SYD, or possibly MEL over BKK

For Australia:
QF could increase SYD/HKG/LHR from 4 to 7pw.
Allow them to add additional capacity ex-MEL
Would satisfy Backpackers express, if they are still around and interested.

It would also open the door for BA/QF to work together over places like Shanghai, beijing, Hong Kong and India!
 
CXoneworld
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RE: Aust-EC Bilateral Talks And Possible UK Talks

Wed Mar 23, 2005 11:49 am

Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 7):
QF could increase SYD/HKG/LHR from 4 to 7pw.

QF will top up SYD-HKG-LHR to daily in April 2006. Its jurisdiction actually lies with the Australia/Hong Kong bilateral, not the UK.

Think Hong Kong will have the say again when it comes to a possible 2nd daily VS flight. But do expect them to say NO, unless a substantial offer is on the table for CX.
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6thfreedom
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RE: Aust-EC Bilateral Talks And Possible UK Talks

Wed Mar 23, 2005 1:12 pm

Quoting CXoneWorld (Reply 8):
QF will top up SYD-HKG-LHR to daily in April 2006. Its jurisdiction actually lies with the Australia/Hong Kong bilateral, not the UK.

CXoneWorld... no quite sure how jurisdiction lies with HKG, given that QF (Australia) is at capacity (28 PW)

7 X QF 9/10, MEL/SIN/LHR vv
7 X QF 1/2, SYD/BKK/LHR vv
7 X QF31/32, SYD/SIN/LHR vv
3 X QF15/16, PER/SIN/LHR vv
4 X QF29/30, SYD/HKG/LHR vv

Unless QF drops it's Perth service, or negotiates additional capapcity with the UK, I can't see how they will go to daily via HKG in April 2006. They may have the rights from HKG, but not with the UK.
 
Marara
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RE: Aust-EC Bilateral Talks And Possible UK Talks

Wed Mar 23, 2005 1:31 pm

I thinks CXone is talking about the flights being routed through HKG. QF and VS may have all the appropriate rights from the AU and UK govts but unless HKG give their approval QF and VS will have to stop elsewhere to take advantage of them
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CXoneworld
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RE: Aust-EC Bilateral Talks And Possible UK Talks

Wed Mar 23, 2005 1:54 pm

Quoting Marara (Reply 10):
I thinks CXone is talking about the flights being routed through HKG. QF and VS may have all the appropriate rights from the AU and UK govts but unless HKG give their approval QF and VS will have to stop elsewhere to take advantage of them

Yeah, that's exactly what I meant. My apology for not making myself clear enough.

Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 9):


Unless QF drops it's Perth service, or negotiates additional capapcity with the UK, I can't see how they will go to daily via HKG in April 2006. They may have the rights from HKG, but not with the UK.

Thanks for the information, I haven't really been aware that Qantas is operating at full capacity to the UK. My idea that the airline will fly daily via HKG indeed comes from its own press statement. In this case, may I comfortably assume we will see a nice capacity boost when the Aus and Brits are due to sit together soon...

http://www.qantas.com.au/regions/dyn.../details?ArticleID=2005/mar05/3241
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6thfreedom
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RE: Aust-EC Bilateral Talks And Possible UK Talks

Wed Mar 23, 2005 4:06 pm

Quoting CXoneWorld (Reply 11):
n this case, may I comfortably assume we will see a nice capacity boost when the Aus and Brits are due to sit together soon...

i think so, and would hope so.
I can't see any reason why another 14 to 28 frequencies wont be negotiated.

apart from QF, BA and VS wanted to expand, they will have to, to grab a larger slice of the pie back from SQ and EK!

It's in everyone's best interests to make this work.

let's see what happens...