SHUPirate1
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United: Fly American And Kick Yourself!

Wed Mar 23, 2005 4:20 am

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/2005-03-18-united-ads_x.htm

Mods: Please note that I did a thorough and exhaustive search from the past week, and could find nothing on this topic.
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FriendlySkies
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RE: United: Fly American And Kick Yourself!

Wed Mar 23, 2005 4:38 am

Now if only UA would apply some of this aggression to getting a solid emergence plan together, we'd have a healthy airline!
 
galapagapop
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RE: United: Fly American And Kick Yourself!

Wed Mar 23, 2005 5:29 am

This is nice to see touting of their legroom as being bigger than AA's which is not true! Economy Plus is a different section technically and its not free. Hope AA stings UAL for this one, by bringing back MRTC  Wink. UAL's economy is one of the most unbearable rides around especially on a 757. This BK thing has gotten out of control, seeing as they are allowed to pay for new ad campaigns, and lower fares. Then lose money and still not pay their creditors. They just are dying to have AA enter BK to taint their image and help make UAL's low yield-high cost claim more plausible seeing as the big 2 would be in trouble.
 
DAYflyer
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RE: United: Fly American And Kick Yourself!

Wed Mar 23, 2005 5:39 am

I think they are making much-ado about nothing. It is so transparent it's actually funny. It's like a class action lawsuit where the only people who see any money are the lawyers. This time the ad agency is the only one making money on this pitch.  butthead 
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Alitalia744
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RE: United: Fly American And Kick Yourself!

Wed Mar 23, 2005 5:39 am

UAL isn't talking about this fact from American Airlines is it:

"American said last fall that it would be adding both First Class and coach seats to its MD80 fleet and coach seats to its other fleets. With these modifications, 82 percent of the MD80 coach seats will retain 32 inches or more of pitch and 72 percent of all of American's narrowbody fleet will have 32 inches or more."

So, 72% of all coach seats on American airlines have greater pitch than ALL of UAL's coach seats...how about that UAL?

I hope AA gives UAL a nice Bitch Slap that they deserve...
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
SNATH
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RE: United: Fly American And Kick Yourself!

Wed Mar 23, 2005 5:47 am

Galapagapop,

I don't want to take sides, as I do fly both UA and AA and I have no problems with either. However, let's look at the facts. According to seatguru:

AA, B757, economy: 31" pitch, 17.2" width
UA, B757, economy: 31" pitch, 17" width
UA, B757, economy plus: 36" pitch, 17" width

The pitch in standard economy is the same, with AA apparently having a very slight edge on seat width (which I have personally never noticed).

Let's face it. AA is actively removing MRTC and it's highly unlikely that it will bring it back (I wish they did). With my status I can get on emergency exit rows when I fly transcons, and this makes the flights on AA more bearable (and notice that AA's B757s haven't had MRTC for some time now). However, if an emergency exit row is not available, then the rest of AA's B757s are as bad as UA's B757s (in my experience). The only thing that saves UA is the E+ section (which I can also get to) which, for me, it'd be a very good reason to choose them over AA for a long transcon (I usually do BOS-SFO).

Tony
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FLY777UAL
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RE: United: Fly American And Kick Yourself!

Wed Mar 23, 2005 5:51 am

Quoting Galapagapop (Reply 2):
Economy Plus is a different section technically and its not free

...uh, technically it's not a different section, and it is still open to any customer who wishes to be seated there. Sure, the seats are assigned to FF's, etc. first, but it is specifically stated in the flight attendant handbook that passengers should not be discouraged from moving to Y+ if they so wish. Why, you ask? Because it is not a different section.

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L
 
Alitalia744
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RE: United: Fly American And Kick Yourself!

Wed Mar 23, 2005 6:03 am

Quoting FLY777UAL (Reply 6):
...uh, technically it's not a different section, and it is still open to any customer who wishes to be seated there. Sure, the seats are assigned to FF's, etc. first, but it is specifically stated in the flight attendant handbook that passengers should not be discouraged from moving to Y+ if they so wish. Why, you ask? Because it is not a different section.

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L

So you're telling me I do not need to pay extra as a non-elite FF member on UAL in order to sit in E+?

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SNATH
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RE: United: Fly American And Kick Yourself!

Wed Mar 23, 2005 6:10 am

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 7):
So you're telling me I do not need to pay extra as a non-elite FF member on UAL in order to sit in E+?

Yup. He's right. I was in a BOS-SFO flight, seating on E+ seats, and someone very large ended up seating next to me and squashed me against the window for 6 hours. And, yes, he was not an FF or had paid extra. He used a pathetic excuse about his leg hurting him.

Tony
Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
 
FLY777UAL
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RE: United: Fly American And Kick Yourself!

Wed Mar 23, 2005 6:10 am

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 7):
So you're telling me I do not need to pay extra as a non-elite FF member on UAL in order to sit in E+?

...wow, you catch on quickly.

The EasyCheckIn machines should offer the upsell option for a few extra dollars if you want to have a gold boarding pass with EconomyPlus printed on it, but there is nothing (and no one) stopping you from plopping yourself up there at any point.

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: United: Fly American And Kick Yourself!

Wed Mar 23, 2005 6:14 am

Have you ever actually had to pay more? Have you ever even LOOKED at the prices? UA has every right to advertise this, because it's true! Of course FFs are going to get first pick, they fly UA the most, they give UA more money, doesn't it only make sense that they get the best product from UA? Not to say UA should treat other pax like crap, but give your best to those who will come back!

EconomyPlus is not a different section. There is no cost, upgrades to Y+ are complimentary if room is available. If someone with hard evidence to the contrary can prove me wrong, please do.
 
N1120A
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RE: United: Fly American And Kick Yourself!

Wed Mar 23, 2005 6:16 am

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 7):
So you're telling me I do not need to pay extra as a non-elite FF member on UAL in order to sit in E+?

Not only do you not need to pay, or wait till you are on the plane and see if a seat is open, but you can ask for it at he counter and there is no one stopping the agent from giving you the seat.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
NCLairport
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RE: United: Fly American And Kick Yourself!

Wed Mar 23, 2005 6:16 am

I know this is sligtly off topic but whats the deal with MRTC with AA. I am flying with them in June on a transatlantic 777.... i get so many mixed messages....will i get MRTC or not? what leg room can i expect. Im sitting in the rear economy section.
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SHUPirate1
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RE: United: Fly American And Kick Yourself!

Wed Mar 23, 2005 6:38 am

Back in April of last year (before I hit US Airways Silver Preferred), United had no problem putting me in E+ on LGA-ORD-IAH-ORD-LGA, despite the fact that the price I paid for my ticket was (gasp) five extra hours of sitting in Chicago's O'Hare Airport back in December for getting bumped, and I didn't even have to ask. Heck, I even had some fun flirting with the flight attendant while on the plane (she didn't, at all, mind, despite the fact that Julian Wright, a Kanas-bound basketball player/McDonald's All-American/future NBA lottery pick, happened to be on the same flight, as it was going to one of the AAU basketball tournaments I work for when I'm not busy getting canned from the Polo Club of Boca Raton for doing my job so well that it angers the members)...unfortunately, she hasn't bothered to call back, despite me leaving my number with her... Sad
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ctbarnes
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RE: United: Fly American And Kick Yourself!

Wed Mar 23, 2005 7:08 am

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 10):
UA has every right to advertise this, because it's true! Of course FFs are going to get first pick, they fly UA the most, they give UA more money, doesn't it only make sense that they get the best product from UA? Not to say UA should treat other pax like crap, but give your best to those who will come back!

For UA to do this is pretty rich considering how truely unpleasant UA economy-minus is; particularly on their 757's. What's worse is having to practically get on your knees and beg the CSA to let you have a seat with more legroom. Sometimes you get lucky. Other times either there are only middle seats left, or you just get a rude brush-off.

If UA were really smart they would re-distribute the seat pitches in Economy to give everyone a little bit more legroom and call the whole thing Economy-plus.

Economy plus was a dumb idea that creates yet more unnecessary travel stress for we poor unfortunates who infest UA aircraft because we travel on discount tickets. Contrary to popular belief, it's becuase we have no choice.
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
 
FLY777UAL
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RE: United: Fly American And Kick Yourself!

Wed Mar 23, 2005 7:23 am

Quoting Ctbarnes (Reply 14):
If UA were really smart they would re-distribute the seat pitches in Economy to give everyone a little bit more legroom and call the whole thing Economy-plus

Aah, but as AA has just shown with their MRTC experiment, the vast majority of passengers weren't willing to shell over more money for more room, hence the LRTC program which has been implemented.

If United has found that only 1/4 of its Economy Class passengers are willing to pay extra, or has found that that added little perk of three to five extra inches is a compelling enough reason for a FF to book UA over AA/DL/CO, etc., then I would say that EconomyPlus has turned out to be a great idea overall.

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L
 
ctbarnes
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RE: United: Fly American And Kick Yourself!

Wed Mar 23, 2005 7:37 am

Quoting FLY777UAL (Reply 15):
Aah, but as AA has just shown with their MRTC experiment, the vast majority of passengers weren't willing to shell over more money for more room, hence the LRTC program which has been implemented

How much more money? If it's 10-15 dollars that is negligable and doesn't effect things overall. Re-distributing the seats does not mean fewer seats, just having everyone with a uniform pitch of 32-33 inches. AA was substantially more than that in the times I looked at them, and so I'm not sure the argument that customers won't pay more has necessarily been proven.

Charles, SJ
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: United: Fly American And Kick Yourself!

Wed Mar 23, 2005 8:02 am

And those 40% of UA's seats that are E+ make up about 70% of UA's revenue, and 99% of UA's repeat fliers.
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SRQCrosscheck
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RE: United: Fly American And Kick Yourself!

Wed Mar 23, 2005 8:42 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 11):
Not only do you not need to pay, or wait till you are on the plane and see if a seat is open, but you can ask for it at he counter and there is no one stopping the agent from giving you the seat.

Additionally, I paid $86 one-way on UA the Wednesday before Thanksgiving (when fares on Delta, my usual choice were much higher between BOS-TPA). Originally I was in row 11 on a 733, but the equipment BOS-IAD changed to a 757, and I was grandfathered into economy plus, even though I paid a rock-bottom price for that segment. Apparently, United didn't mind giving me an Economy plus seat.

Edit: I forgot to mention that I flew United again because I was so pleased with the experience. Economy plus seems valuable to me, it keeps customers loyal.

[Edited 2005-03-23 00:44:57]
 
jacobin777
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RE: United: Fly American And Kick Yourself!

Wed Mar 23, 2005 9:10 am

Quoting SRQCrosscheck (Reply 18):
Economy plus seems valuable to me, it keeps customers loyal.

As an elite AA member, I've valued the MRTC. However, being an elite member, I can always book the emergency exit seats in advance, which have tons of room.

That being said, AA believes they can make more money by adding seats, but they fail to realise they may lose many valuable customers......maybe they've added that into their equations....but if UA comes out of chapter 11, and AA continues lowering their service, I just might switch to UA.
"Up the Irons!"
 
SNATH
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RE: United: Fly American And Kick Yourself!

Wed Mar 23, 2005 9:37 am

Quoting Ctbarnes (Reply 14):
For UA to do this is pretty rich considering how truely unpleasant UA economy-minus is; particularly on their 757's.

I don't think it's any worse than LRTC on AA's B757s (see my reply #5 above).

Quoting FLY777UAL (Reply 15):
then I would say that EconomyPlus has turned out to be a great idea overall.

Absolutely. When AA had MRTC (which I personally loved) I would happily fly them long haul without a second thought. I did two trips on them BOS-NRT via JFK. The extra legroom was absolutely essential for the 14h JFK-NRT legs. Now, that they are removing it, I'd get out of my way to fly UA. Plain and simple. I have nothing against AA and I still fly them domestically. However, for such a long flights I'll go with the airline that will give me the most space for roughly the same money. And, in this case, it is UA.

Quoting Ctbarnes (Reply 14):
If UA were really smart they would re-distribute the seat pitches in Economy to give everyone a little bit more legroom and call the whole thing Economy-plus.

Like the several others who replied, I totally disagree with this. As SHUPirate1 pointed out, the FFs really appreciate the extra legroom and UA is very keen on keeping the FFs happy (and rightly so). Here's why I think E+ makes sense more than MRTC (feel free to disagree). E+ targets the ones who fly a lot, know about E+, and ask for it. And these are the ones who are more likely to create more revenue for the airline and perhaps pay a bit extra for it. However, since AA had MRTC in the entire cabin, they assumed that everyone would be willing to pay a bit more for it. I don't think this makes sense. Most people (i.e. infrequent flyers) didn't have a clue about MRTC (prove me wrong) and are not willing to pay more for anything. They just want the lowest price.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 19):
but they fail to realise they may lose many valuable customers

I personally think they will. They have definitely lost some of my business.

Tony

PS In the interests of trying to be objective I should add this: where AA have the edge over UA is in the fact that they have power outlets on some of their economy seats, whereas UA do not. I really wish UA consider adding power outlets to their E+ seats. (Yes, I know that the premium service has it; it's a tiny percentage of their fleet though).

[Edited 2005-03-23 01:41:26]
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galapagapop
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RE: United: Fly American And Kick Yourself!

Wed Mar 23, 2005 9:50 am

Quoting FLY777UAL (Reply 6):
...uh, technically it's not a different section, and it is still open to any customer who wishes to be seated there. Sure, the seats are assigned to FF's, etc. first, but it is specifically stated in the flight attendant handbook that passengers should not be discouraged from moving to Y+ if they so wish. Why, you ask? Because it is not a different section.

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L

Since when have pax been discouraged to upgrade in any class for that matter? Y+, C, or F the airline is still happy no matter what. And yes it still is a different section, just not as good as F but big FF's get upgraded to it and pax can if they want to pending availability.
 
Boeing73G
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RE: United: Fly American And Kick Yourself!

Wed Mar 23, 2005 9:55 am

Quoting FLY777UAL (Reply 9):
The EasyCheckIn machines should offer the upsell option for a few extra dollars if you want to have a gold boarding pass with EconomyPlus printed on it, but there is nothing (and no one) stopping you from plopping yourself up there at any point.

Can I do this when I actually book on UA's website?
 
FLY777UAL
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RE: United: Fly American And Kick Yourself!

Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:20 am

Quoting Galapagapop (Reply 21):
Since when have pax been discouraged to upgrade in any class for that matter? Y+, C, or F the airline is still happy no matter what. And yes it still is a different section, just not as good as F but big FF's get upgraded to it and pax can if they want to pending availability.

As I stated in my response which you quoted, passengers should not be discouraged from moving to Y+ if they wish...that has nothing to do with being "upgraded". Y+ is in no way, shape or form considered an "upgrade" or a different section onboard the aircraft. It's still an economy seat in the United Economy class, the only difference is that FF's are seated there before customer service will begin to seat non-FF's there (hence why you don't need certificates or to actually BE a FF to sit there).

Quoting Boeing73G (Reply 22):
Can I do this when I actually book on UA's website?

IIRC, it's only a day-of upsell, so only available from the EasyCheckIn machines (perhaps based on availability?)

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L
 
Lufthansa
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RE: United: Fly American And Kick Yourself!

Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:25 am

How about this.

Why don't they both try and offer their consumer some half decent service!
It is a joke seeing UA's crap product, rubbish American's even more crap product! Come on, I DARE one of them to just start spending $5 per economy passenger on Catering!

OH BTW guys, if you think it is so expensive to do this, think of how much a lean cuisine frozen dinner costs in the supermarket. The supermarket probably buys it at about 1/2 of that rate, so do the maths and see how much it COULD costs to provide hot meals.

You could make the air fare just $3 or $4 more and pay for it..... or are American travellers so cheap that they wouldn't pay that much for a service quality increase?
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: United: Fly American And Kick Yourself!

Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:43 am

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 24):
You could make the air fare just $3 or $4 more and pay for it..... or are American travellers so cheap that they wouldn't pay that much for a service quality increase?

We're that cheap and won't pay for it...so get used to it! I'm sorry our "American" airlines aren't as high-class as the rest of the world, but America is based on a supply and demand economy. Passengers don't demand meals, and won't pay for them, so airlines don't give them.

While it seems cheap up front, multiply that by about 200 seats per plane, and then by about 2400 or more flights per day, and finally by 365 days...it adds up.
 
texan
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RE: United: Fly American And Kick Yourself!

Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:51 am

And now for some words from The Good Doctor about UAL:

"There is something in the corporate manner of United Airlines that reminds me of the California Highway Patrol, the exaggerated politeness of people who would be a hell of a lot happier if all their customers were in jail -- and especially you sir. Flying United, to me, is like crossing the Andes in a prison bus."
- The Good Doctor, "The Temptations of Jean-Claude Killy," Scanlan's Monthly, vol. 1, no.1, March 1970.

No real reason for this than I think it is funny. I do not fly United much because I felt like a 2nd class citizen with them, but if their fare is lowest, I'll go ahead and hop on and know what kind of service to expect. Not that I appreciate paying out the wazoo to fly on American out of DFW either. Anyway, enjoy and remember to take stuff lightly.

Texan
"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
 
QANTAS077
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RE: United: Fly American And Kick Yourself!

Wed Mar 23, 2005 11:09 am

i'm taking UA business class from JFK-SYD in about 6 weeks! not sure what to expect to be honest, i know the PS flight i am on looks very spacious and luxurious, but i am a bit worried about the LAX-SYD flight!
 
Lufthansa
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RE: United: Fly American And Kick Yourself!

Wed Mar 23, 2005 11:37 am

QF77

I did it 3 weeks ago, its not so bad, as you sleep most of that flight anyway. The business class is up to scratch...its not the best but it is certainly on par with say KLM (actually probably better) or SAA or MAS.

The economy class.... My advice there is take a sleeping pill!

Friendlyskies...
you're right things do add up. But the Cost of fuel, staff pensions, and even aircraft cleaning is even greater than that. I would be interested to see how much it adds to CPASM... i bet the difference of spending $4 more per pax wouldn't add to much. In fact, if you pulled out the first class cabins, maybe replaced it with an E+ cabin, the extra revenue from the extra seats would probably pay for it.

Anyway its a moot point because somebody would have to be the first to make such a change and none of the majors would because they'd risk loosing frequent flyers who have got used to always being upgraded, plus as you say...ppl seem to really be that cheap that they really wouldn't pay $3 or $4 more.
 
CTHEWORLD
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RE: United: Fly American And Kick Yourself!

Wed Mar 23, 2005 11:57 am

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 24):
DARE one of them to just start spending $5 per economy passenger on Catering!

I dare people to start paying $5 more for their tickets!
 
QANTAS077
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RE: United: Fly American And Kick Yourself!

Wed Mar 23, 2005 11:57 am

got Economy Plus to the US and within the westcoast, rest is all business class so i am happy with that, as long as CH9 is working then i will sleep pretty easy!
 
galapagapop
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RE: United: Fly American And Kick Yourself!

Wed Mar 23, 2005 1:14 pm

Quoting FLY777UAL (Reply 23):
As I stated in my response which you quoted, passengers should not be discouraged from moving to Y+ if they wish...that has nothing to do with being "upgraded". Y+ is in no way, shape or form considered an "upgrade" or a different section onboard the aircraft. It's still an economy seat in the United Economy class, the only difference is that FF's are seated there before customer service will begin to seat non-FF's there (hence why you don't need certificates or to actually BE a FF to sit there).

Have you ever actually flown in UAL's cattle car coach? Because any seat pitch 33"+ on a UAL flight is an upgrade...
 
FLY777UAL
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RE: United: Fly American And Kick Yourself!

Wed Mar 23, 2005 1:21 pm

I'm thinking SFO-NRT and LHR-LAX will count for that...in the pre-EconomyPlus days, to boot.

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L
 
Tango-Bravo
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RE: United: Fly American And Kick Yourself!

Wed Mar 23, 2005 1:28 pm

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 7):
So you're telling me I do not need to pay extra as a non-elite FF member on UAL in order to sit in E+?

As a non-elite (not even close) traveling on very low loss-leader fares with UA, I have been assigned a seat in Economy Plus (aisle seats no less) by ticket counter agents on two occasions, a perk for which I did not even ask --but gladly accepted Smile. Likewise my non-elite daughter was assigned a window seat in E Plus on UA on a Priceline fare in the not-so-distant past.
 
SRQCrosscheck
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RE: United: Fly American And Kick Yourself!

Wed Mar 23, 2005 1:32 pm

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 24):
if you think it is so expensive to do this, think of how much a lean cuisine frozen dinner costs in the supermarket. The supermarket probably buys it at about 1/2 of that rate, so do the maths and see how much it COULD costs to provide hot meals.

It actually probably costs airlines quite a bit to cater an airplane. Those meals, although they might look like lean cuisine, are definitely more expensive than frozen lean cuisine at the grocery. The labor costs to service the plane are more than the service costs to service the freezer at the supermarket. Frozen foods at the supermarket are mass produced by *many many* different food producers, whereas airline meals are specialty meals made by handful of caterers. I would imagine it costs more per meal to deliver the food to the plane than to the supermarket, even though it costs more overall to produce all of the lean cuisine in the world...
 
Thrust
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RE: United: Fly American And Kick Yourself!

Wed Mar 23, 2005 1:51 pm

UAL is just making that statement because AA is doing better than they are and they are trying to attract public attention by denouncing AA. They know AA is going to start draining profits from their China routes any way....to say AA has no legroom cracks me up. Long live the soaring eagle!
Fly one thing; Fly it well
 
ckfred
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RE: United: Fly American And Kick Yourself!

Wed Mar 23, 2005 2:15 pm

Here's my understanding. If you book online, you can't get E+ on UA, unless you buy an unrestricted fair or have a high-enough FF status. Absent that, you get to sit in the rear part of the coach section with 31" of pitch.

Yes, you could try to get moved by talking to an agent on the phone/at the ticket counter/at the gate, but there is no guarantee, especially with a full flight.

With AA, except for the 757s and A300s, every coach seat has 32" of pitch. Since I fly on cheap fares, usually with my wife and our toddler. So, on AA, I can get a seat in the front of the coach cabin.

Let me tell you. At 31", I can't cross my legs. But, I can with 32" of pitch. So, unless I change jobs and start flying for business, and my employer keeps sending me at the last minute, I'm going to stick with AA.
 
texan
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RE: United: Fly American And Kick Yourself!

Wed Mar 23, 2005 2:33 pm

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 24):
I DARE one of them to just start spending $5 per economy passenger on Catering!

Catering costs a ton of money. I cannot speak for all of the airlines, but for corporate aviation you are looking at about $35.00 for a burger with fries. $26.00 gets you a crew lunch, which consists of a small sandwich, a fruit cup, a small dessert, and a bag of chips. $5 per passenger on catering? You're looking at more like $25.00 per passenger for catering for just the basics.

Texan
"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
 
SHUPirate1
Topic Author
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RE: United: Fly American And Kick Yourself!

Wed Mar 23, 2005 2:42 pm

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 36):
Here's my understanding. If you book online, you can't get E+ on UA, unless you buy an unrestricted fair (sic) or have a high-enough FF status. Absent that, you get to sit in the rear part of the coach section with 31" of pitch.

Yes, you could try to get moved by talking to an agent on the phone/at the ticket counter/at the gate, but there is no guarantee, especially with a full flight.

Even that isn't quite true. I booked a ticket on United, and I have US Airways Silver Preferred Status. As United can't recognize US Airways Silver Preferred Status from their computers, the online website made me pick a seat in the Rosa Parks section of the 'Bus, and I had to call United to get myself into E+.
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
ORD2PHL
Posts: 242
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2003 9:15 am

RE: United: Fly American And Kick Yourself!

Wed Mar 23, 2005 3:50 pm

This whole begging argument OR the fact that non elites cannot sit in Y+ on UA flights is a load. Before I was Premier Exec on UA, I was able to sit in this section, granted I was not able to reserve it in advance, but if you ask the gate agent (in person, not the Easy Check-in machines) if there is any availability up there they can usually take care of you IF IT'S NOT FILLED WITH ELITES.

What is also a load is the alleged statements that US members cannot pre-book Y+, I live and work in Philadephia, and many of my co-workers are US Preferred members who are permitted to book Y+ in advance, as our travel system (Powered by AMEX) sends their US credentials along with the reservation, so maybe you don't know how to utilize your system correctly.

I also have no problem with the fact that elites are permitted to reserve this section in advance, having flown 70k on UA and Star partners last year, this is a great incentive as it makes a great difference.


ORD2PHL
 
SHUPirate1
Topic Author
Posts: 3428
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2003 2:53 pm

RE: United: Fly American And Kick Yourself!

Wed Mar 23, 2005 5:57 pm

ORD2PHL-Well then how come I was so unsuccessful in doing that LAST WEEK? Look, I love flying United, and I understand it was little more than a glitch in the system (the same glitch that doesn't allow US Airways elites to waitlist on a US Airways flight when on a United Ticket, which was easily resolved by a visit to the US Airways counter at Palm Beach International Airport while picking up family, much like the glitch about me being unable to sit in E+ on UA when a US Airways Elite was easily resolved by a phone call to the United Reservations Desk). However, please don't deny that the glitch is there, especially to somebody who is already loyal to the Star Alliance carriers (and I would fly United much more if they actually had more than one flight a day out of PBI)
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
qqflyboy
Posts: 1615
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RE: United: Fly American And Kick Yourself!

Wed Mar 23, 2005 6:18 pm

I just wrote the following in another thread about the legroom on AA's reconfigured MD-80s:

"A positive note for ya... I just flew one of the reconfigured MD-80s... you know, the one with the so-called "no room throughout coach?" Actually, the legroom on the three seat side was hardly affected. You see, there used to be a closet at the very back of the aircraft, in front of the lav. That closet has been removed and the additional row is there. I'm sure the rows ahead of it were adjusted slightly to increase the room, but honestly, I'd be surprised if those seats lost over an inch. The two seat side was affected slightly more, but honestly, it was still a very comfortable ride. I know everyone gets hot for IFE, but I'd take the mad dog any day over the 757, just because of the legroom. I'm thankful those seats are still roomy."
The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
 
n9801f
Posts: 154
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 8:29 am

RE: United: Fly American And Kick Yourself!

Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:24 pm

LONG overdue! AA has made completely overblown claims about its legroom for years while UA modestly offered the real deal.

P.S. I like both airlines.
 
UN_B732
Posts: 3529
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RE: United: Fly American And Kick Yourself!

Wed Mar 23, 2005 11:45 pm

$10-15 sadly, in this market, is ridiculously not negligible. CO tried raising IAH-to some florida destination fares by $1.50 for better service, and LF fell like 9%
What now?
 
Lufthansa
Posts: 2303
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 6:04 am

RE: United: Fly American And Kick Yourself!

Thu Mar 24, 2005 2:14 am

SRQCrosscheck

When i spoke in those terms I was trying to simplfy things. A few years ago, I actually worked in administration for the world's largest catering company,
although I wasn't an executive, I was assisting them so I did see plenty of paperwork.

What you say is true, there are hidden costs but it isn't as much as you think because all the raw ingredients are bought in bulk. Actually, costs like continually restocking broken dishware can contribue more than ppl think, but plastic is cheap.

To give you some idea, a certain airline, which has a lot of flights to Hong Kong, (hint hint) spends about $50 on the average long haul intercontinental business class meal. That is including the alcohol, but it is based on using very expensive incredients such as lobster, and good quality wines that are more than a few years aged.

Put that in perspective. An economy meal needed for domestic doesn't have half of these complications. It only has to last 2 hrs at the most before being served, and, doesn't require such fancy incredients. How much do you think a cup (1 standard serve) of pasta costs when you buy 20 million of them a year? Not much let me tell you. Actually such companies can get the raw ingredients at prices far below the supermarket because they are bulk packaged, and there is no need for both the individual marketing effort, the fancy boxes and all the excess frieght required as a result.

If we were to spend the $25 dollar mark as mention,(by texan) in those quantities, it would actually buy quite a good lunch.
Another thing is airlines DON'T have to use existing catering company's at airports, as some LCC's around the world have discovered. Or at some remote places, some even use local hotels kitchens. Think about this. Your standard frozen dinner can be reheated in a galley over provided the packaging is right. If one wanted to, they could simply have a major frozen food producer put their standard meals in airline galley friendly disposible containers, have foil on the top instead of plastic, reheat them inflight and simply hand out plastic knifes and folks.

In fact, a certain Airline that is big in the South Pacifc produces all its domestic meals this way in a factory in Brisbane, ships them frozen to all the local short haul ports, and they're simply reheated onboard 737 galleys. Couldn't be easier. Meals are simple. Pasta and green vegtables, or thai curry and rice. Cheap. Tasty, and effective. Although I think the quantities could be increased. Of course, the one thing that stuffs this formula up is all the "politically correct" special meals, but, a few common types on hand shouldn't cost too much extra as long as you don't offer 16 extra types.

Perhaps an easier way would be "complimentry liqiour". One or two REAL drinks per pax would probably go over quite well for the business passengers in the evening. Once again, in bulk, this wouldn't costs that much. I know a guy who owns a bar and I can tell you that drinks that cost him $0.80 he sells for $6.

Anyway its a moot point, because i could put an excellent deal together and price it at just $6 more expensive, but the message I get is, most ppl would prefer to save the $6 and winge about crap service.

Gordon Buthane, where is the cheese on the Pizza now?

[Edited 2005-03-23 18:22:12]

[Edited 2005-03-23 18:38:09]
 
SRQCrosscheck
Posts: 200
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2005 3:08 pm

RE: United: Fly American And Kick Yourself!

Thu Mar 24, 2005 3:09 am

Lufthansa,

Thanks for your response! You are clearly more informed in catering, seeing as you once worked for a caterer. I guess I overestimated the "hidden costs" in airline catering. In any event, I do agree with you: most passengers wouldn't pay the extra cost.
 
ctbarnes
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RE: United: Fly American And Kick Yourself!

Thu Mar 24, 2005 3:22 am

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 44):
6 more expensive, but the message I get is, most ppl would prefer to save the $6 and winge about crap service.

I'd happily pay $6 more for quality amnities. Perhaps you should offer yourself out as a consultant to the US carriers...  Smile

Charles, SJ
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
 
TonyBurr
Posts: 1059
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2001 1:00 pm

RE: United: Fly American And Kick Yourself!

Thu Mar 24, 2005 3:31 am

I think it is great that AA is adding more First Class seats. Yes, they are used by upgrades by their highest Frequent Flyers and obviously shows AA is making an effort for the high FF. I think that is great. Too bad I am 1 K with UA who isn't making the effort to please their high FF more!

AA could use concept in an ad campaign!!
 
ckfred
Posts: 4694
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

RE: United: Fly American And Kick Yourself!

Thu Mar 24, 2005 3:55 am

N9801F:

I believe AA's claims about MRTC were accurate. Before MRTC, I could only cross my legs in the First Class cabin on an MD-80. If I tried it in coach, my knee was buried in the seatback in front. Even before MRTC, I used to say to my wife that 1 extra inch would let me cross my legs.

Lufthansa:

I understand that catering isn't cheap, but I agree that it isn't expensive, unless an airline wants to go all out.

My wife just flew ORD-SEA on AA. The morning snack, which the gate agent and F/As could not describe without referring people to a picture, cost $3. My wife had an Egg McMuffin, hash browns, and coffee for $4 at the McDonald's down the concourse.

Granted, the meal included coffee, which is free on the plane, but it seems to me that a breakfast sandwich and some sort of side dish, such as hash browns, fruit cup, cereal, etc., would cost a carrier less than $3, possibly under $2 at a hub airport with thousands of passengers departing between 6 am and 8:30 am.

Years ago, UA used to serve warm danish pastries on short flights, such as ORD-MSP. They were as good as the danish that I get at the local bakery. Most people now buy food at the airport, because the increased security and such have increased the amount of time people spend waiting, but I still think people would appreciate some sort of hot food, particularly on flights over 2 hours.
 
ctbarnes
Posts: 3269
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 2:20 pm

RE: United: Fly American And Kick Yourself!

Thu Mar 24, 2005 4:02 am

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 48):
Years ago, UA used to serve warm danish pastries on short flights, such as ORD-MSP. They were as good as the danish that I get at the local bakery.

They also served the controversial breakfast burrito later on, which many people seemed to hate, but I did not think was all that bad. Perhaps 25 years of hospital food has made me immune Big grin

Charles, SJ
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy