Pe@rson
Topic Author
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TAP From LIS To Brazil

Thu Mar 24, 2005 12:41 am

It would seem that TP currently flies from LIS to (based on week starting 1st June, 2005:

FOR - daily 313 (Brazil's fifth-largest city)
NAT - four-times-weekly 313 (not in top 13 cities)
REC - daily 313 (Brazil's eighth-largest city)
GIG - daily 343 (Brazil's second-largest city)
SSA - daily 313 (Brazil's third-largest city)
GRU - daily 343 (Brazil's largest city)

How come there's no service from LIS to:

Belo Horizonte - Brazil's fourth-largest city (2,239,000 people)?
Brazilia - Brazil's capital and sixth-largest city (2,051,000 people)?

What percentage of traffic flying LIS-cities served and cities served-LIS would be O&D? I am guessing the majority.

I don't know much about the Portugal-Brazil aviation scene, so please be gentle.  

[Edited 2005-03-23 16:43:06]
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incitatus
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RE: TAP From LIS To Brazil

Thu Mar 24, 2005 1:00 am

Brasilia is a government city. Besides a large population, its airport ranks third in passenger volume behind Sao Paulo's Guarulhos and Congonhas. Most of that traffic is either domestic connections or federal government - domestic too. Compare that to Washington DC where besides a much much richer government with interests around the World, there is a large number of businesses (and foreign lobbists) around it. If there is any nonstop international service out of BSB that would be first to Buenos Aires due to the close cooperation with Argentina.

Belo Horizonte (or Belo Horror according to an AA flight attendant) does not draw enough international traffic. TAP looked at serving it a few times a week and it may happen - maybe as an extension of service to Salvador (SSA). The proximity to Rio and Sao Paulo also dilutes traffic across multiple options, and the backtracking is insignificant.

All TAP services to NE Brazil are sustained through beach tourism. Lately I heard of Portuguese retiring in the Northeast where euros will afford a very good retirement. Take Natal. Like you noticed, it's a fairly small city. But the hotel business is booming. Its airport gets an average of 600 (PAX) international arrivals every day, which is 2-3 flights, mostly charters coming from all over Europe. As I mentioned in another thread, Natal may become the first city in the Northeast to get AA service from Miami.
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airbazar
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RE: TAP From LIS To Brazil

Thu Mar 24, 2005 1:09 am

They don't just retire there. They own vacation homes there. NE Brazil is to Portugal what Florida is to New England in the US, or what Algarve is or used to be to the British.
 
Pe@rson
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RE: TAP From LIS To Brazil

Thu Mar 24, 2005 1:09 am

Thanks for your reply.  Smile I guess Lisbon-Salvador-Belo 'Horror' might be all right. So there would be no realistic chance of having Lisbon-somewhere-Brasillia in the next, say, 5 years?
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MAH4546
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RE: TAP From LIS To Brazil

Thu Mar 24, 2005 1:31 am

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 1):
If there is any nonstop international service out of BSB that would be first to Buenos Aires due to the close cooperation with Argentina.

TransBrasil used to offer both IAD-BSB and MIA-BSB. The flights didn't do to bad.

TAM offered daily BSB-MIA service, with a stop in MAO, between June 2001 and October 2001. Operated with an A320, but, as a new route, was one of many to go after 9.11.

There has been talk about AA looking at BSB lately, routed MIA-MAO-BSB-MIA with a 757. However, without changes to the US/Brazil air treaty, it is not going to happen.
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incitatus
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RE: TAP From LIS To Brazil

Thu Mar 24, 2005 2:03 am

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 3):
So there would be no realistic chance of having Lisbon-somewhere-Brasillia in the next, say, 5 years?

I think yes or no to that is just a guess, and my guess would be no.
The state that has Natal as capital (Rio Grande do Norte) has done a great job attracting tourists. No one would have guessed a few years ago that Natal's airport would have more international traffic than Recife's. Success draws competition, so other smaller cities will be after the same market. I think Maceio' (MCZ) south of Recife has an attractive shoreline and could be TAP's next destination. Another city with potential is Sao Luis (SLZ), west of Fortaleza. Sao Luis has a historic center that could be spruced up to attract European tourists. The government in that state is quite incompetent though. They can't even do a good job on trash collection and have an outstanding track record in corruption.

Then TAP may get competition from other airlines. Air France stated that load factors on the two daily flights to Brazil were 90% in February. Club Med has a large presence and is planning a fourth resort. Air France served Recife several years ago and it could enter the market to NE Brazil again with a dedicated flight to SSA, REC, FOR or NAT.
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Orion737
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RE: TAP From LIS To Brazil

Thu Mar 24, 2005 5:57 am

How about TAP serving Manaus?
 
PPVRA
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RE: TAP From LIS To Brazil

Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:23 am

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 6):
How about TAP serving Manaus?

TAP has expressed their wish to open a new destination in Brazil, but we haven't heard much from them as of yet. A.net speculation has been running high (as you may expect) and MAO and/or BEL were two other possible destinations not mentioned above.

I'm not sure they could fill a plane there, but, if they can get the 5th freedoms for it, I think they should extend their LIS-CCS down to MAO instead of a separate flight. They'll be able to fill the cargo hull for sure (MAO is in a free-tax zone with many manufacturing plants there) and not have to rely so much on pax traffic.

I do hope they fly to MAO though.

Cheers,

PPVRA
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat