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Biman To Order 6 X 777 & 4 X A330

Thu Mar 24, 2005 7:08 pm

Just announced by Biman now though we may have to wait from the manufacturers.

DHAKA (AFX) - Bangladesh national carrier Biman Airlines is to buy six
Boeing 777 and four Airbus 330 aircraft to update its its ageing fleet and
expand its international routes, officials said.
"The board of Biman on Wednesday approved the purchases. As soon as the
aircraft are secured we will be able to start flying to five more international
destinations," Biman spokesman Syed Ahsan Hossain Kazi told Agence
France-Presse.
The new routes will be to Baghdad, Tripoli, Seoul, Jakarta and Colombo.
The aircraft could cost state-owned Biman up to 1.0 bln usd, another
official added, speaking on condition of anonymity.
"Both Boeing and Airbus have given proposals to Biman for purchasing
aircraft on easier credit terms and the board approved it," Kazi said.
Subject to final approval by the cabinet, the order will be placed in June
with Biman taking delivery of the new aircraft by early 2007, he said.


Lot's going on at the moment though I'll see this one on the books to believe it!

Regards
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RE: Biman To Order 6 X 777 & 4 X A330

Thu Mar 24, 2005 7:18 pm

filler...posted reply incorrect thread!

[Edited 2005-03-24 11:19:35]
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FCKC
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RE: Biman To Order 6 X 777 & 4 X A330

Thu Mar 24, 2005 7:20 pm

Sorry PANAM_DC10 , as i explained in my thread we uploaded the same subject at the same time.
Please see my thread as i entered two links , one saying 6 T7s/4 330s and the second one 4 T7s/6 330s.
Any comments ?
 
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RE: Biman To Order 6 X 777 & 4 X A330

Thu Mar 24, 2005 7:23 pm

Any idea on when the order will be signed?
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RE: Biman To Order 6 X 777 & 4 X A330

Thu Mar 24, 2005 7:24 pm

I'm with 6 777 & 4 330s as both Bloomberg and Reuters carry the same numbers. Who cares? Another carrier buying which is good for enthusiasts though I'll miss the A310s & DC-10s at LHR

Regards

Edit: FCKC Reuters just changed their story to 6 A330s & 4 777 Now I am confused !!!!

[Edited 2005-03-24 11:35:22]
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RE: Biman To Order 6 X 777 & 4 X A330

Thu Mar 24, 2005 7:26 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 3):
Any idea on when the order will be signed?

They say June

Regards
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FCKC
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RE: Biman To Order 6 X 777 & 4 X A330

Thu Mar 24, 2005 7:59 pm

PANAM_DC10

I am confused too with the exact number of each type !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Probably this order will be signed during the Paris Air Show.
 
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RE: Biman To Order 6 X 777 & 4 X A330

Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:08 pm

FCKC

Yep, couldn't agree more. One for Paris. It will be interesting to see what the actual model mix will be. However, yet again, we see a carrier willing to operate both the A330 & B777 Series. I assume A332s and 772ER but that's just me speculating.

You'll have to update me from Paris as I'll be back in Australia by then  Wink

Regards
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Orion737
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RE: Biman To Order 6 X 777 & 4 X A330

Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:27 pm

The A310s and DC10s were the best, sorry to see them go.
 
behramjee
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RE: Biman To Order 6 X 777 & 4 X A330

Thu Mar 24, 2005 9:05 pm

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 8):
DC10s were the best, sorry to see them go

I beg to differ...the DC 10-30s of theirs have been the main source of nightmares and headaches of their fleet and for many EU/UK/JFK airport flight engineers for the last decade or so!!!

I am so happy that this order has been placed for 6 B 772ERs and 4 A 332s. Will they still retain A 310s or phase them out with A 332s???

Now whats to be done is for routes such as LHR, JED, DXB, RUH and AUH to be ALL SERVED NONSTOP from DAC with these aircraft not via 1-2 cities!!! JFK too should only be served via BRU and not DAC-DEL-BRU-JFK!!!
 
N754PR
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RE: Biman To Order 6 X 777 & 4 X A330

Thu Mar 24, 2005 9:05 pm

Great news for Boeing and Airbus but will be said to see the DC-10's go.
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RE: Biman To Order 6 X 777 & 4 X A330

Thu Mar 24, 2005 9:09 pm

Interesting that no one said anything about Baghdad and Tripoli being new destinations. How much demand can they have to fly to Baghdad?
Regards and great to see someone interested in flying there.
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FCKC
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RE: Biman To Order 6 X 777 & 4 X A330

Thu Mar 24, 2005 9:29 pm

PAN AM_ DC10

Of course will keep you updated from Paris.

767-332ER

Perhaps there are many Bangladeshi workers in both these countries , namely Tripoli and Baghdad.
 
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RE: Biman To Order 6 X 777 & 4 X A330

Thu Mar 24, 2005 11:19 pm

FCKC

Thanks FCKC. Well to clarify my header I took the reporting into my own hands and called Mr Syed Ahsan Hossain Kazi of Biman to ask whether it was 6 777 & 4 A330 or the other way around. This is what I got.

"I cannot say which base models will be ordered. The reason you have seen conflicting reports is something I cannot explain. Though we are ordering 10 aircraft of which the final composition needs to be approved by Cabinet. You will see the final decision in June"

Wow! Me thinks there's some Politics involved.....I'm no journalist so I'll leave it to them. Perhaps Geoff Thomas could help us out here !!!!!

Regards
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akelley728
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RE: Biman To Order 6 X 777 & 4 X A330

Thu Mar 24, 2005 11:49 pm

How many DC-10s and A310s are in their fleet now?
 
B742
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RE: Biman To Order 6 X 777 & 4 X A330

Thu Mar 24, 2005 11:53 pm

Akelley728, according to Airfleets Biman has 6x DC-10-30's and 4x A310-300's!

My guess is the 777 will replace the DC-10 and the A330 will replace or add to the A310's!

Shame to see the DC-10's go though!

Rob!
 
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RE: Biman To Order 6 X 777 & 4 X A330

Thu Mar 24, 2005 11:54 pm

Quoting AKelley728 (Reply 14):
How many DC-10s and A310s are in their fleet now?

6 DC-10-30s
4 A310-300s

Regards
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travellin'man
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RE: Biman To Order 6 X 777 & 4 X A330

Fri Mar 25, 2005 1:10 am

Great news!

I had thought they might get a deal on 787's, but maybe they are too far off in delivery times for Biman, who needs them sooner.
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RE: Biman To Order 6 X 777 & 4 X A330

Fri Mar 25, 2005 1:19 am

They currently lease two China Southern 777s that are still in CS colors, but why are they not in the schedule?
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Horus
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RE: Biman To Order 6 X 777 & 4 X A330

Fri Mar 25, 2005 2:06 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 18):
They currently lease two China Southern 777s that are still in CS colors, but why are they not in the schedule?

The 2 777s are wet leased from CZ over the Hajj period only. Both airline have had this lease agreement for some years now to cover the extra traffic between Bangladesh and KSA during this annual Islamic pilgrimage.

Horus
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RE: Biman To Order 6 X 777 & 4 X A330

Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:44 am

The aircraft could cost state-owned Biman up to 1.0 bln usd

For 10 aircraft? Is this correct? That is quite cheap!
 
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RE: Biman To Order 6 X 777 & 4 X A330

Fri Mar 25, 2005 6:59 am

I'm not as close to airline acquisition, maintenance or operations as many of you. Consequently, my questions (which follow) may be trivial, but I would like to understand the following:

- Why would an airline as small as Biman split it's order between Boeing and Airbus?
- Is there a big expansion plan in the works which will include aircraft from both manufacturers?
- Who will be performing their maintenance?
- Will they choose a common engine supplier?

Any help will be much appreciated.
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behramjee
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RE: Biman To Order 6 X 777 & 4 X A330

Fri Mar 25, 2005 7:47 am

1. It is very clear to any person having common knowledge of the commercial airline industry that this order of BG was politically motivated. No airline with the business model and sense of BG would order an A 332 alongside B 777-200ERs when the sensible option would be ordering A 343s or A 345s instead!!!

2. It makes no sense what so ever for me as to A 310s being replaced in 2-3 years time with A 332s as the aircraft is too big of a replacement for A 310s...around 70 more seats!!! It would make more sense for BG to keep A 310s till 2010 and have ordered B 787-800s instead for delivery by 2010-11. BGs A 310s 1994-97 models I think???

3. With this order I hope BG re-arranges its routes by flying DAC-BRU-JFK with the B 772ER instead of DAC-DEL-DXB-BRU-JFK and DAC-DEL-BRU-JFK with DC 10-30s. BG too should make sure that ALL of its LHR flights are nonstop and not via DXB in order to effectively compete against EK-QR-GF-BA-KU on this route for passengers.

4. BG should ensure that all seats on A 332s and B 777s have TVs as well as SLEEPER SEATS in Business class along similar lines of PIAs B 777 J class product.

5. I dont see any market for BG in Baghdad for at least another 3 years until labor traffic is allowed into Iraq as well as law and order subsiding. Tripoli has a large labor market of Desis but all low yield...its suitable for an A 310-300 flight from DAC via AUH or DXB only!!! ICN-CGK are all A 310 destinations and not fit nor worthy of A 332 service...CMB will see most likely B 733 service from DAC and the occasional A 310.

6. But instead of these destinations, there is more money making potential for BG out of MAN, BHX and ORD I feel. All these cities can support a 2-3 weekly A 332 or B 777 service from DAC (ORD via a EU city).

7. Some people have told me that it would have been better if BG ordered 10 A 330-200s only. I disagree as the B 777 will seat 85 more passengers than the A 332 will for BG. The A 332 is not a DC 10-30 replacement...the A 343 and B 777-200ERs are!!! BG needs the extra capacity and better operating performance capabilities of the B 772ERs on its LHR and JFK routes especially where the A 332 would be TOO SMALL for the airline to make serious money out of. Plus the extra seats of the B 777 are needed very badly in the HAJJ/UMRAH season.

[Edited 2005-03-25 00:17:30]
 
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RE: Biman To Order 6 X 777 & 4 X A330

Fri Mar 25, 2005 8:10 am

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 22):
With this order I hope BG re-arranges its routes by flying DAC-BRU-JFK with the B 772ER instead of DAC-DEL-DXB-BRU-JFK and DAC-DEL-BRU-JFK with DC 10-30s

Perhaps if you had been paying attention, you would have noticed that BG has not actually operated from DEL to BRU/JFK for a few years now. Lets not let the pesky facts get in the way though.
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behramjee
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RE: Biman To Order 6 X 777 & 4 X A330

Fri Mar 25, 2005 8:18 am

Yes sorry my apologies...the current route is :

BG 011-012 on MON and FRI with DC 10-30s flying DAC-DXB-BRU-JFK.
 
brons2
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RE: Biman To Order 6 X 777 & 4 X A330

Fri Mar 25, 2005 8:20 am

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 22):
1. It is very clear to any person having common knowledge of the commercial airline industry that this order of BG was politically motivated. No airline with the business model and sense of BG would order an A 332 alongside B 777-200ERs when the sensible option would be ordering A 343s or A 345s instead!!!

How wrong you are!

There are other operators who use both the A330 and 777 side by side. KL and KE come to mind off the top of my head. If you want to operate big twins, and want models that can be acquired before 2008, these are your best bets.
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Biman To Order 6 X 777 & 4 X A330

Fri Mar 25, 2005 8:24 am

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 22):
No airline with the business model and sense of BG would order an A 332 alongside B 777-200ERs when the sensible option would be ordering A 343s or A 345s instead!!!

What on Earth sort of inane drivel is that?  Yeah sure

...nearly a dozen airlines (large and small) have chosen to operate the A330 and 777 in tandem, many to the exclusion of the A340; and nearly all without [apparent] political motivation beyond the nigh-negligible minima common to the aviation industry.
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Thunderbird1
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RE: Biman To Order 6 X 777 & 4 X A330

Fri Mar 25, 2005 8:50 am

Would be nice to see the triple 7 in Biman colors.
 
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RE: Biman To Order 6 X 777 & 4 X A330

Fri Mar 25, 2005 9:29 am

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 9):
Now whats to be done is for routes such as LHR, JED, DXB, RUH and AUH to be ALL SERVED NONSTOP from DAC with these aircraft not via 1-2 cities!!! JFK too should only be served via BRU and not DAC-DEL-BRU-JFK!!!

Well yes, and that immidiatly affects my job as a caterer of both the JFK and DAC-DEL flights at BRU!

Well see I would say...
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SWISSER
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RE: Biman To Order 6 X 777 & 4 X A330

Fri Mar 25, 2005 9:37 am

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 9):
I beg to differ...the DC 10-30s of theirs have been the main source of nightmares and headaches of their fleet and for many EU/UK/JFK airport flight engineers for the last decade or so!!!


LOL! I recall the comments of the Sabena technics engineers at BRU right now!
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SWISSER
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RE: Biman To Order 6 X 777 & 4 X A330

Fri Mar 25, 2005 9:41 am

In any way,
I think BG made a good choice and I wish them good luck with the new fleet!
Altough I'am sure gonna mis the flower power on board the DC-10!
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atmx2000
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RE: Biman To Order 6 X 777 & 4 X A330

Fri Mar 25, 2005 10:04 am

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 26):


Quoting Behramjee,reply=22:
1. It is very clear to any person having common knowledge of the commercial airline industry that this order of BG was politically motivated. No airline with the business model and sense of BG would order an A 332 alongside B 777-200ERs when the sensible option would be ordering A 343s or A 345s instead!!!

What on Earth sort of inane drivel is that?  

...nearly a dozen airlines (large and small) have chosen to operate the A330 and 777 in tandem, many to the exclusion of the A340; and nearly all without [apparent] political motivation beyond the nigh-negligible minima common to the aviation industry.

Actually, who in their right mind would buy a A343, which is pretty much a dead end this late in the program's life. It makes more sense to get a 772ER now and then decide what to do later with the A332 and 772ER when the A350 and 787 debut. It'll be easier to dispose of either the A332 or 772ER than a A343 (or A345).
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cloud4000
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RE: Biman To Order 6 X 777 & 4 X A330

Fri Mar 25, 2005 10:32 am

I thought Biman has no money, that it's "cash-poor"? And what about their short-haul fleet? They need to replace those F-28s.
Boston, USA
 
behramjee
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RE: Biman To Order 6 X 777 & 4 X A330

Fri Mar 25, 2005 10:56 am

Quoting Brons2 (Reply 25):
How wrong you are!
There are other operators who use both the A330 and 777 side by side. KL and KE come to mind off the top of my head. If you want to operate big twins, and want models that can be acquired before 2008, these are your best bets.

I do know very well that there are airlines that fly A 332s alongside B 772ERs such as EK-KE-KLM-MH but their business strategies and type of markets they serve is totally different to BGs. Plus they fly many more passengers in a year than BG does in 2-4 years!!!

BG is a poor, horribly managed airline...with this new fleet order their fleet would be so diverse that maintainance costs + crew training etc would be huge :

B 777-200ERs + A 330-200s + A 310-300s + B 737-300s...for every different plane type they need a seperate set of cabin crew-pilots-technicians/engineers etc. They dont have the type of $$$ that CX-EK-KE-TG-BR etc have to maintain such a diverse fleet!!!

Yes in this day and age, it would be probably unfeasiable to order the A 343 as its nearing the end of its production but an alternative option could have been A 345s. These aircraft (A345) dont have to be ordered just to be used on long haul routes such as DAC-JFK nonstop...they can be equally effective flying a DAC-BRU-JFK segment. With A 340s and A 332s in BGs fleet, costs are cut down, there is cockpit commonality and pilots/cabin crew can work on either.

Previously there was an interesting discussion on A.Net regarding BGs future plans...for more click below :
Biman Plan For 2 More Planes Shot Down (by AirbusCanada Jan 5 2005 in Civil Aviation)

[Edited 2005-03-25 03:10:23]
 
B747-437B
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RE: Biman To Order 6 X 777 & 4 X A330

Fri Mar 25, 2005 11:01 am

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 33):
for every different plane type they need a seperate set of cabin crew

You might want to tell them this because they seem to have been cross-training their cabin crew on the B737/DC10/A310 right now under the mistaken impression that this was permitted. Thank goodness you were able to clarify it for them.
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PHXinterrupted
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RE: Biman To Order 6 X 777 & 4 X A330

Fri Mar 25, 2005 11:09 am

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 22):
. It is very clear to any person having common knowledge of the commercial airline industry that this order of BG was politically motivated. No airline with the business model and sense of BG would order an A 332 alongside B 777-200ERs when the sensible option would be ordering A 343s or A 345s instead!!!

Are you drunk? What is sensible about buying a 340 over a 777? Perhaps when you sober up you should take a closer look at the two planes.
Keepin' it real.
 
SWISSER
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RE: Biman To Order 6 X 777 & 4 X A330

Fri Mar 25, 2005 11:11 am

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 31):
Actually, who in their right mind would buy a A343, which is pretty much a dead end this late in the program's life

Swiss did and the plane is a great succes in the fleet!

anyway Biman has different goals!
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brons2
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RE: Biman To Order 6 X 777 & 4 X A330

Fri Mar 25, 2005 11:17 am

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 33):
Yes in this day and age, it would be probably unfeasiable to order the A 343 as its nearing the end of its production but an alternative option could have been A 345s. These aircraft (A345) dont have to be ordered just to be used on long haul routes such as DAC-JFK nonstop...they can be equally effective flying a DAC-BRU-JFK segment. With A 340s and A 332s in BGs fleet, costs are cut down, there is cockpit commonality and pilots/cabin crew can work on either.

So your suggestion is that they abuse the quite expensive A345 on medium to long (NOT ULH) sectors in order to achieve some commonality? I don't get you.

I could also point out that while the A345 may achieve some cockpit and airframe commonality, you've still got the engine issue to deal with, even if they go RR on the 332, they are 2 different types of RR.

If they wanted 10 common airplanes, then I would suggest either getting ALL A332 or ALL 772ER.

I think they've made a good decision here to go 772ER+A332.

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 33):
B 777-200ERs + A 330-200s + A 310-300s

I thought the A332 were a 1 for 1 replacement for the A313.
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
 
behramjee
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RE: Biman To Order 6 X 777 & 4 X A330

Fri Mar 25, 2005 11:27 am

Quoting Brons2 (Reply 37):

I thought the A332 were a 1 for 1 replacement for the A313.

No one knows for sure 100% if the A 332s are intended to immediately replace the A 313s upon delivery of all or if BG intends on retaining its A 310s till 2010 period.
 
N751PR
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RE: Biman To Order 6 X 777 & 4 X A330

Fri Mar 25, 2005 12:00 pm

I seriously hope this one goes through.....unless I just got suckered into an early April Fools thread....:P
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gigneil
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RE: Biman To Order 6 X 777 & 4 X A330

Fri Mar 25, 2005 1:41 pm

Quoting Brons2 (Reply 25):
KL and KE come to mind off the top of my head.

Both of which have large fleets.

For such a small airline, the commonality benefit is magnified.

N
 
behramjee
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RE: Biman To Order 6 X 777 & 4 X A330

Fri Mar 25, 2005 3:02 pm

Quoting Brons2 (Reply 37):
So your suggestion is that they abuse the quite expensive A345 on medium to long (NOT ULH) sectors in order to achieve some commonality? I don't get you.

My point is similar to what Gigneil is trying to say...for a small airline like BG having around only 10 aircraft in its fleet for long-medium haul flights, its better to have fleet commonality than fleet diversity.

From the looks of things, BG plans on replacing A 310s with A 332s, so in the long run instead of having a fleet of B 772ERs + A 332s + B 737-300s (eventually to be replaced by B 737NG or A 320), it would save BG a lot of money if they choose an A 340 + A 330 combo (A 345 + A 332).

Dont get me wrong, I am a vvv big fan of the Boeing 777 but Airbus can beat Boeing's price tag + offer cockpit/crew/technical commonality for BG with a long/medium haul fleet based around the A 330-340...thus enabling BG to save a lot of $$$ on familiarization and training.
 
brons2
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RE: Biman To Order 6 X 777 & 4 X A330

Fri Mar 25, 2005 3:09 pm

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 41):
Dont get me wrong, I am a vvv big fan of the Boeing 777 but Airbus can beat Boeing's price tag + offer cockpit/crew/technical commonality for BG with a long/medium haul fleet based around the A 330-340...thus enabling BG to save a lot of $$$ on familiarization and training.

The problem is, I don't see the A345 (or any ULH...) as a good option due to the high weight, it would make it difficult to make profits in their route system. And we all know the A343 is at the end of it's run. I think this is why they went the 772 route.

A better option would be either 772/789 or A358/A359. But they can't wait that long I guess.
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
 
brons2
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RE: Biman To Order 6 X 777 & 4 X A330

Fri Mar 25, 2005 3:11 pm

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 40):
Both of which have large fleets.

For such a small airline, the commonality benefit is magnified.

N

To play devil's advocate then, what aircraft are you suggesting? 4x332+6x343?
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
 
737-990
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RE: Biman To Order 6 X 777 & 4 X A330

Fri Mar 25, 2005 3:15 pm

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 22):
The A 332 is not a DC 10-30 replacement...the A 343 and B 777-200ERs are!!!

Will someone get on the phone and call Northwest with this breaking news!
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brons2
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RE: Biman To Order 6 X 777 & 4 X A330

Fri Mar 25, 2005 3:17 pm

Quoting 737-990 (Reply 44):
Will someone get on the phone and call Northwest with this breaking news!

Actually they are using the A333 on many of the Europe routes which is more similar in capacity to the DC-10-30 than is the A332.
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
 
The777Man
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RE: Biman To Order 6 X 777 & 4 X A330

Fri Mar 25, 2005 3:59 pm

Let's hope that they do place this order. It would be great with another new Boeing 777 operator !

The777Man
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behramjee
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RE: Biman To Order 6 X 777 & 4 X A330

Fri Mar 25, 2005 4:09 pm

Quoting 737-990 (Reply 44):

Will someone get on the phone and call Northwest with this breaking news!

NWA if u recall did indeed in 1989 place an order for around 30 A 343s but then changed it to A 333s and A 332. The A 333 is a good enough replacement for DC 10-30s across the Atlantic as well as for SEA-NRT flights as it has the similar pax capacity.
 
Lockheed1011
Posts: 154
Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 4:04 pm

RE: Biman To Order 6 X 777 & 4 X A330

Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:42 pm

B777 it is much superior bird than the A340.

A330 is selling very well, that is why Airbus should not kill it announcing the A350. Two engines are the selling point lately, so...... no need for A340.  Smile
 
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scbriml
Posts: 13384
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

RE: Biman To Order 6 X 777 & 4 X A330

Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:57 pm

Quoting PHXinterrupted (Reply 35):
Are you drunk? What is sensible about buying a 340 over a 777? Perhaps when you sober up you should take a closer look at the two planes.

There must be quite a few drunk airline execs then!  wink 
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!