MAH4546
Topic Author
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AA Applies For UA's Brazil Frequencies

Fri Mar 25, 2005 6:18 pm

American Airlines has applied with DOT to temporarily use five of United's dormant US-Brazil frequencies next winter to operate additional Miami-Rio de Janeiro flights.

American Airlines currently operates 12 weekly MIA-GIG flights during peak season and 10 during off-season. Starting this summer, AA is transfering 5 of the frequencies to DFW-GRU, reducing MIA-GIG to 5x weekly. They are asking for the frequencies on a temporary basis to operate additional MIA-GIG during next year's winter timetable, and then they would go back to United. I have been told that if they do not get the frequencies, then DFW-GRU is back to daily for the winter, because AA plans on flying MIA-GIG 12x weekly regardless during the busy winter timetable.

Docket:
http://dms.dot.gov/search/document.c...m?documentid=322071&docketid=20747
a.
 
DAL767400ER
Posts: 5084
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RE: AA Applies For UA's Brazil Frequencies

Fri Mar 25, 2005 10:28 pm

Interesting news. I wonder how long it will take UA to start b!tching about losing frequencies to AA when they have plans to use them sometime in the near future  Wink .
 
DeltaMIA
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RE: AA Applies For UA's Brazil Frequencies

Sat Mar 26, 2005 3:22 am

Are these the same 5 DL requested from UA or is this additional 5 UA aren't using.
DL was granted the 5 from the DOT, but they will be unable to meet the requested startup date. Instead DL reapplied to start the service in Oct. I was just curious if the DOT is deciding to allow AA or DL use the 5 or are they considering using 10 UA dormant frequencies.
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airfrnt
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RE: AA Applies For UA's Brazil Frequencies

Sat Mar 26, 2005 3:24 am

UA has started building up a interesting little mexico system in DEN. I wonder if they will extend this out to cover more of Latin America from DEN. If so, I would not be surprised to see them use these frequencies for that.
 
dutchjet
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RE: AA Applies For UA's Brazil Frequencies

Sat Mar 26, 2005 3:36 am

Makes sense, there is lots of demand between the US and Brazil and the market, due to bi-laterals, is very tightly regulated, it seems wasteful for the UA frequencies to go usused.

Would UA be interested in selling its unused frequencies to AA (UA could use the cash).....is that is permitted under the bi-lateral between the US and Brazil?
 
PPVRA
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RE: AA Applies For UA's Brazil Frequencies

Sat Mar 26, 2005 7:25 am

Off topic question:

Why doesn't UA fly to GRU from LAX? RG has only a 4X weekly service and supposedly with very high yields.... they could at least add some frequencies and make it daily. Any idea why they don't?

PPVRA
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: AA Applies For UA's Brazil Frequencies

Sat Mar 26, 2005 7:52 am

Quoting DeltaMIA (Reply 2):
Are these the same 5 DL requested from UA or is this additional 5 UA aren't using.
DL was granted the 5 from the DOT, but they will be unable to meet the requested startup date. Instead DL reapplied to start the service in Oct. I was just curious if the DOT is deciding to allow AA or DL use the 5 or are they considering using 10 UA dormant frequencies.

I would guess these are additional frequencies. UA still has a total of 14 that have gone to waste for some 2 years now.
On the topic of DL, nothing has happened since March 3rd, when DL replied to an unauthorized response by UA and the quarraling of soem Herzberg guy. The DOT remains silent.
 
UALAX
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RE: AA Applies For UA's Brazil Frequencies

Sat Mar 26, 2005 7:58 am

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 5):
Why doesn't UA fly to GRU from LAX? RG has only a 4X weekly service and supposedly with very high yields.... they could at least add some frequencies and make it daily. Any idea why they don't?

A few years ago UA applied for LAX-GRU and LAX-EZE but was denied both frequencies. I'm not sure if they are interested in the route anymore. A LAX/SFO-GRU route on UA would be definitely cool.

UALAX
 
OS-A330
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RE: AA Applies For UA's Brazil Frequencies

Sat Mar 26, 2005 8:37 am

The question is: Does American Airlines have enough pilots to operate these additional routes? Big grin


Source: Reuters
 
RyanAFAMSP
Posts: 144
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:24 pm

RE: AA Applies For UA's Brazil Frequencies

Sat Mar 26, 2005 8:40 am

United did operate LAX-GRU with a 747SP in the early and mid-1990s. They abandoned the route though. I am not sure why - but it is important to remember that it was during the time period that Asia was performing fantastically and the long-haul fleet was most productive on those routes. The LAX-GRU route was likely less dependable economically than other uses for the aircraft.

The subsequent re-application for the LAX/SFO-South American routes was part of one strategy that came out of the ongoing debate about the continuing weakness of the United Miami hub. It was widely thought inside the company that yields could be improved by feeding the South America operation through United's stronger domestic hubs, in exchange for forgoing the immense O+D market in Miami. United ultimately never made a concrete decision, and just whittled away the Miami operation, moving the final two 767-300 routes up to IAD. Many have proposed that if a more concrete, strategic realignment would have happened earlier, UA may have been able to protect more of its South America marketshare.
 
jdwfloyd
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RE: AA Applies For UA's Brazil Frequencies

Sat Mar 26, 2005 11:03 am

You would think that UA would give them to US if anyone. That way they could still have a codeshare on the route. Would a 319 or 752 make it from CLT PHL or FLL to GRU?
 
Bicoastal
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RE: AA Applies For UA's Brazil Frequencies

Sat Mar 26, 2005 11:09 am

UA's 763's are packed to GRU, GIG, EZE and MVD from Chicago and Washingon-Dulles. IF they had the available aircraft, they'd likely increase the number of seats and the frequencies. But, until they exit bankruptcy and buy new aircraft, the 4 flights are about all we'll see. Too bad.
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PPVRA
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RE: AA Applies For UA's Brazil Frequencies

Sun Mar 27, 2005 3:37 am

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 10):
You would think that UA would give them to US if anyone. That way they could still have a codeshare on the route. Would a 319 or 752 make it from CLT PHL or FLL to GRU?

There is no way for the A319 to make it all the way to GRU from anywhere in the USA, it's an average 8.5 hour flight from MIA...maybe the 752, but they'll need capacity too.

You did mention something very interesting that has been on my mind recently: CLT can very well be an alternative for PAX connecting in ATL from Brazil. However, US never expanded their services to South America. Seriously, I think US shot themselves on the foot by not flying down here.

Not sure if RG could, or would even want to try flights to CLT given their experience with ATL and DL.

We'll see what happens...

Cheers,

PPVRA
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
avek00
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RE: AA Applies For UA's Brazil Frequencies

Sun Mar 27, 2005 4:16 am

"Seriously, I think US shot themselves on the foot by not flying down here."

Why? CLT offers neither the SouthAm O&D nor the connectivity of ATL by a large margin - US would have been lucky to fill 100 seats/day on CLT/GRU-GIG.
Live life to the fullest.
 
incitatus
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RE: AA Applies For UA's Brazil Frequencies

Sun Mar 27, 2005 5:32 am

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 10):
You would think that UA would give them to US if anyone.

USAirways cannot fly to Brazil. The bilateral restricts the number of carriers operating on each side to four. AA, UA, DL and CO are the US carriers taking the American spots.
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