L.1011
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787 Order Update

Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:16 am

As I understand it, the 787 order book stands as follows:

Ethiopian 10
China 60
Vietnam 4
Continental 10
JAL 50
Primaris 35
Blue Panorama 4
First Choice 6
ANA 50
Icelandair 2
Air New Zealand 2

That would bring the order book to 233. However, some news sources state that the 787 has almost 260 orders. Who am I missing? Did ILFC finally make their order?
 
Hamlet69
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RE: 787 Order Update

Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:59 am

Careful with your numbers. Some of the orders you list include options, while others do not. As it stands today, the 787 numbers should look like this:

Announced Firm Orders
China: 60
ANA: 50
JAL: 30
Primaris: 20
Continental: 10
First Choice: 6
Ethiopian: 5
Blue Panorama: 4
Vietnam Airlines: 4
Air New Zealand: 2
Icelandair: 2
Total: 193


Announced Options
JAL: 20
Air New Zealand: 16
Primaris: 15
Ethiopian: 5
First Choice: 3
Total: 59

Regards,

Hamlet69
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yyz717
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RE: 787 Order Update

Mon Mar 28, 2005 4:36 pm

The Chinese order for 60 is broken down as follows:
Air China 20
China Eastern 15
China Southern 10
Hainan Airlines 8
Shanghai Airlines 4
Xiamen Airlines 3.

Additionally,
the ANA order is for 30 787-3, 20 787-8
the JAL order for 30 is a mix of 787-3 and 787-8 with no breakdown yet (to my knowledge)
all other orders are for the 787-8 subtype.

Engines:
ANA opted for RR
First Choice was the first carrier to choose the GEnx.
No other carrier has chosen an engine yet to my mind (unless ANZ chose RR)?

Perhaps we could keep this thread updated as more 787 orders come in.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
QFA001
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RE: 787 Order Update

Mon Mar 28, 2005 4:37 pm

Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 1):
First Choice: 3

Hamlet69, even though it's very pedantic I'm going to point this out only because I realise that you value accuracy: when First Choice announced its GEnxs, the B787 deal seemed to have been altered from 3 options to 6.
 
blsbls99
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RE: 787 Order Update

Mon Mar 28, 2005 4:49 pm

ANZ also has chosen RR engines
319 320 313 722 732 733 735 73G 738 739 742 752 763 772 CRJ D9S ERJ EMB L10 M88 M90 SF3 AT4
 
IanatSTN
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RE: 787 Order Update

Mon Mar 28, 2005 6:54 pm

Quoting Blsbls99 (Reply 4):
ANZ also has chosen RR engines

This is a nice contract for RR to win, does anyone know what the key performance differences between the GEnx and RR engines are?

Cheers,
Ian.

[Edited 2005-03-28 10:55:37]
Ian@STN ::
 
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PanAm_DC10
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RE: 787 Order Update

Mon Mar 28, 2005 7:42 pm

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 2):
The Chinese order for 60 is broken down as follows:
Air China 20
China Eastern 15
China Southern 10
Hainan Airlines 8
Shanghai Airlines 4
Xiamen Airlines 3.

Shanghai Airlines confirmed 9 this week, does that leave the Chinese order as follows?

Air China 15
China Eastern 15
China Southern 10
Xiamen 3 (add to CZ)
Hainan 8
Shanghai 9

Please correct me if I'm wrong

Regards
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DeltaWings
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RE: 787 Order Update

Mon Mar 28, 2005 7:51 pm

Lets hope for a major Qatar announcement soon.


~DeltaWings
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NYC777
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RE: 787 Order Update

Tue Mar 29, 2005 12:20 am

I think both Qatar and ILFC both said they will be placing orders for the 787 before the Paris Airshow.
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DColeMAN
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RE: 787 Order Update

Tue Mar 29, 2005 12:34 am

Britannia (Thomsonfly) has also placed an order, not exactly sure how many though.

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7e72004
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RE: 787 Order Update

Tue Mar 29, 2005 12:41 am

I would not be surprised if the Continental order falls through.
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boeingbus
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RE: 787 Order Update

Tue Mar 29, 2005 12:54 am

Korea is also close in ordering the 787, according to FI. This is probably the first win for the 787 against the A350.
Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
 
NYC777
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RE: 787 Order Update

Tue Mar 29, 2005 12:59 am

This week can be a big week, first CO unions vote on the new contracts and if ratified will open the door to finalizing the deal between CO and Boeing. Also AC is supposed to be announcing the order for the new long range aircraft. Does anyone know when this week they'll e making an announcement?
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iowa744fan
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RE: 787 Order Update

Tue Mar 29, 2005 2:49 am

Quoting Ianatstn (Reply 5):
This is a nice contract for RR to win, does anyone know what the key performance differences between the GEnx and RR engines are?

I would say that the ANA deal was a much bigger win. I realize that ANA had RR engines on their L1011s, but they have not used RR in quite a while. I did see that RR and some of the Japanese industries announced some sort of agreement, so this likely helped with the order. Either way, good move by RR to get both a Japanese supplier and the large order!
 
DAYflyer
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RE: 787 Order Update

Tue Mar 29, 2005 2:57 am

Looks like the 787 is eating the A-350 for lunch.  bigthumbsup 

I would not be surprised, however, to see an announcement from Airbus at the Paris show for some sort of A-350 order from somewhere.
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PHXinterrupted
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RE: 787 Order Update

Tue Mar 29, 2005 2:59 am

Quoting 7E72004 (Reply 10):

It may be delayed, but CO needs this plane. CO has a mere 18 777s and 26 767s. When you think about it, this is a very small widebody fleet for one of the world's 10 largest airlines. I'm sure that they recognize in order to survive, they must add more lucrative long-haul flights.
Keepin' it real.
 
columbia107
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RE: 787 Order Update

Tue Mar 29, 2005 3:02 am

Not really contributing additional statistical data but Aviation Week's web page has an article on the 787 which states, amongst others, that the 787 will be:-
- the first "electric" commercial airplane.
- the first user of electric brakes.
- 61% made of fatigue and corrosion-resistant materials.
It also highlights that Boeing has revised its customer formula which now reads customer=airline+bank thus taking into consideration the all important issue of finance in today's world.
It will come with very few systems options but like the auto industry Boeing will equip the 787 with a lot of extras which the customers and the users are dying for.
I say this because such statements have not been mentioned in the past. At least as far as I am concerned.
In God we trust
 
Luniew
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RE: 787 Order Update

Tue Mar 29, 2005 4:01 am

Lets hope LOT will make up their mind and order few 787's in few months.
 
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Crosswind
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RE: 787 Order Update

Tue Mar 29, 2005 5:10 am

Quoting DColeMAN (Reply 9):
Britannia (Thomsonfly) has also placed an order, not exactly sure how many though.

The deal was rumoured, but TUI have since gone public in Flight International and said that they have not even started the formal A350/B787 evaluation yet, and that they did not expect to place an order before 2007.

Regards
CROSSWIND
 
MidnightMike
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RE: 787 Order Update

Tue Mar 29, 2005 5:21 am

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 14):
Looks like the 787 is eating the A-350 for lunch.

That would not be a very fair comment to make, the 787 has been around a lot longer than the A350....
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galapagapop
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RE: 787 Order Update

Tue Mar 29, 2005 5:26 am

I'm sure the A350 will recieve several orders after early test data for the A380 is released because I'm sure potential customers want to see if Airbus can deliver on promises of performance, seeing as Boeing has a very public program, while Airbus has been very quite on the A350 and its exact features.

Cheers!
 
zvezda
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RE: 787 Order Update

Tue Mar 29, 2005 6:50 am

While I wouldn't be surprised to see the B787 eat the A350's lunch, it is premature to say that it's doing so. Give the A350 another year or two.
 
TPASXM787
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RE: 787 Order Update

Tue Mar 29, 2005 6:59 am

I can't wait for the 787. With all of the environmentally friendly features and the (apparent) pax-friendliness of the aircraft, it will revolutionize the industry.

Between the 787 and the A350, Boeing has been waging a P.R. war while Airbus has been quiet. Who knows what that means. It could mean something more incredible than the 787. It could also mean that the A350 is indeed nothing more than a re-done A330, which is a nice plane, but nothing like the 787 will be. Only time will tell. More info on the A350 would be nice though.
This is the Last Stop.
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: 787 Order Update

Tue Mar 29, 2005 7:42 am

Quoting TPASXM787 (Reply 22):
Between the 787 and the A350, Boeing has been waging a P.R. war while Airbus has been quiet

Quiet aren't the words I would use to describe John Leahy's comments on the 7E7/787

Quoting TPASXM787 (Reply 22):
Who knows what that means. It could mean something more incredible than the 787. It could also mean that the A350 is indeed nothing more than a re-done A330, which is a nice plane, but nothing like the 787 will be.

Unless the current A350 plans are just a smoke screen for something spectacular, the re-done A330 assessment is closer to reality. They are in talks with GE and RR for the same engines as the 787 (sans bleedless technology) and they are talking about a new composite wing. Seriously doubt they have something that could blow the 787 out of the water up their sleeve.


Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 11):
Korea is also close in ordering the 787, according to FI. This is probably the first win for the 787 against the A350.

The rammifications (sp?) of this potential order could be huge. Much bigger than the ANA, JAL, Continental, and China orders:

  • KE is an A330 carrier. If Boeing wins this order, it would be the first order in which Boeing has upset the incumbent Airbus fleet
  • This is the first major order where the merits of the 787 and A350 have gone head-to-head. For lack of a short-range version (and politics if you want to believe that), Airbus didn't stand a chance in the JAL/ANA orders.
 
frankhenderson
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RE: 787 Order Update

Tue Mar 29, 2005 7:45 am

Why the designation of 787-300 and 787-800? Why not start with -100 & -200? It's the same thing with the A380 - how did the come up with the dash #'s?

Thanks,
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: 787 Order Update

Tue Mar 29, 2005 7:51 am

Quoting Frankhenderson (Reply 24):
Why the designation of 787-300 and 787-800? Why not start with -100 & -200? It's the same thing with the A380 - how did the come up with the dash #'s?

First, they are not the -300/800. It's -3/8, -9.

These reflect the range/payload of the respective models. Initially, the 7E7 models were called 7E7-Base, 7E7-Short Range (SR), and 7E7-Stretch. The SR features the Base model fuselage but with less range and rated for lower gross weights.

Since the Base model has 8,500 nm of range, this is the -8 model. The Stretch has 8,300 nm of range and is called the -9. The Short Range model has 3,500 nm of range and is called the -3. The 7E7 then became the 787 after the large China order.

As to why not -200/200ER, and -300ER... marketing I suppose.
 
BlueSky1976
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RE: 787 Order Update

Tue Mar 29, 2005 7:55 am

I'd imagine more info about A350 will become available during Paris Air Show. Boeing kept relatively quiet about 787 for almost a year until they were done with the design definition.

As far as LOT goes - i'm hoping for A350 order  Smile And yes - it is for political reasons...
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TPASXM787
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RE: 787 Order Update

Tue Mar 29, 2005 7:56 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 23):

You're not kidding....

John Leahy, chief commercial officer, said: "It is time to reinforce our sales activities in Japan and strengthen our marketing and commercial teams. Our competitor will do whatever it takes to maintain its monopoly position, which allows for monopolistic pricing."
This is the Last Stop.
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: 787 Order Update

Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:01 am

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 26):
I'd imagine more info about A350 will become available during Paris Air Show. Boeing kept relatively quiet about 787 for almost a year until they were done with the design definition.

I think it's likely that the A350 will get a bit of a nose job, so the 787 might not have the only distinctive snout for long. Airbus mentioned an improved nose in their initial press-release, though the concept picture at the time didn't show it.

Quoting TPASXM787 (Reply 27):
You're not kidding....

There were also numerous comments to the affect of :

- "A next-generation 767 replacement already exist, it's called the A330-200"
- "Alll we must do is add new engines to the A330 and the 7E7's advantage disappears."
- "Boeing is only building the -8 to keep trip cost down relative to the A330"
 
zvezda
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RE: 787 Order Update

Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:03 am

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 26):
Boeing kept relatively quiet about 787 for almost a year until they were done with the design definition.

Huh? Has Boeing already completed the design definition of the B787?
 
QFA001
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RE: 787 Order Update

Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:31 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 28):
I think it's likely that the A350 will get a bit of a nose job, so the 787 might not have the only distinctive snout for long. Airbus mentioned an improved nose in their initial press-release, though the concept picture at the time didn't show it.

Are you referring to the "droop nose"? That isn't a reference to the snout, but to the leading edge of the wing. This is where the A330's inboard slat will be replaced with the "droop nose" design of the A380. The droop nose device reduces drag on take-off and landing and also cuts noise.
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: 787 Order Update

Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:35 am

Quoting QFA001 (Reply 30):
Are you referring to the "droop nose"? That isn't a reference to the snout, but to the leading edge of the wing

Ah... that makes more sense...
 
ETStar
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RE: 787 Order Update

Tue Mar 29, 2005 3:28 pm

Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 1):
Careful with your numbers. Some of the orders you list include options, while others do not. As it stands today, the 787 numbers should look like this:

Announced Firm Orders
China: 60
ANA: 50
JAL: 30
Primaris: 20
Continental: 10
First Choice: 6
Ethiopian: 5
Blue Panorama: 4
Vietnam Airlines: 4
Air New Zealand: 2
Icelandair: 2
Total: 193

Funny how I came across a report that stated that Ethiopian and Boeing were at a preliminary agreement for the 787s... and that further negotiations were in store...
 
Luniew
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RE: 787 Order Update

Tue Mar 29, 2005 4:52 pm

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 26):
As far as LOT goes - i'm hoping for A350 order And yes - it is for political reasons...

Since I fly LOT a LOT JFK-WAW-JFK I would love to see 787... But I guess the A350 will do if it comes down to it.
 
N1120A
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RE: 787 Order Update

Tue Mar 29, 2005 5:17 pm

Quoting MidnightMike (Reply 19):
That would not be a very fair comment to make, the 787 has been around a lot longer than the A350....

What? Less than a year?

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 25):
The SR features the Base model fuselage but with less range and rated for lower gross weights.

Different wing and strengthened underpinnings for short-hauls too.

Quoting Luniew (Reply 33):
Since I fly LOT a LOT JFK-WAW-JFK I would love to see 787... But I guess the A350 will do if it comes down to it.

Depends if they want to upgauge, burn more fuel and pay more for the airplane or not.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
zvezda
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RE: 787 Order Update

Tue Mar 29, 2005 5:24 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 34):
Depends if they want to upgauge, burn more fuel and pay more for the airplane or not.

I think it has more to do with whether or not Poland wants to suck up to the French after the French government told the Polish government not to express its opinions publically. Welcome to the EU!
 
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PanAm_DC10
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RE: 787 Order Update

Tue Mar 29, 2005 5:49 pm

Quoting ETStar (Reply 32):
Funny how I came across a report that stated that Ethiopian and Boeing were at a preliminary agreement for the 787s... and that further negotiations were in store...

Ok, Boeing have not listed the order firm on their orders site yet, however, I find it funny that Boeing and Ethiopian both have agreed on the order as per the link below. Look at how many derided the 787 orders from First Choice and Blue Panorama, and they're booked firm give it a month or two and so too will ET.

http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2005/q1/nr_050204g.html

Regards
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keesje
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RE: 787 Order Update

Tue Mar 29, 2005 5:53 pm

I still miss a western flag/major carrier.

Boeing too I think. Hopefully at le Bourget.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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PanAm_DC10
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RE: 787 Order Update

Tue Mar 29, 2005 6:20 pm

Quoting Keesje (Reply 37):
I still miss a western flag/major carrier.

Boeing too I think. Hopefully at le Bourget

Replace "Boeing" with "Airbus" and I think Airbus might just be saying the same for the A350 too  Wink

Regards
Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
 
behramjee
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RE: 787 Order Update

Tue Mar 29, 2005 6:36 pm

According to the latest news bulletin of ATWONLINE.COM, Korean Air is in serious talks with BOEING for an order of 20 Boeing 787s!!!

http://www.atwonline.com/news/other.html?issueDate=3%2F29%2F2005

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