ERJ145LR
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Why No LCCs For DCA?

Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:54 am

Why is it that...

#1-- no lcc's at DCA?

#2-- why is it such an expensive airport?

All the airlines that fly into DCA, charge so damn much to fly there, and on the other side, why is BWI by far always the cheapest out of the three Met. Washinton airports?

(I guess you could call AirTran and ATA lcc's, but i was thinking more like: JetBlue, Song, Independence Air(never would happen, b/c of IAD hub), SWA, and any of the other "core" LCCs)  Smile
 
TWA902fly
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RE: Why No LCCs For DCA?

Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:58 am

Well you answered your own question... there are no LCCs at DCA because it is such an expensive airport (as in landing fees, gate space etc), and not only that its pretty close to full. and it is slot controlled.

TWA902
life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
 
wjcandee
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RE: Why No LCCs For DCA?

Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:01 pm

Uh, as you mention, there are at least two LCCs that fly to DCA with significant service. I don't see how you can pooh-pooh that. One is ATA, 4 flights a day from MDW in Chicago, and which includes codeshares with Southwest to ABQ, HOU, IND, MCI, LAS, LIT, LAX, OAK, OMA, PHX, SAN, SEA and STL. Also, on ATA itself, you can fly west to DEN, SFO, DFW and other places.

The other is Airtran, which has 4 flights a day from ATL, with lots of connections.


America West, 2 each from PHX and LAS; Frontier, 3 flights daily from DEN, and Spirit, from Detroit, FLL and MYR.

[Edited 2005-03-28 04:03:27]
 
N1120A
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RE: Why No LCCs For DCA?

Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:01 pm

Quoting ERJ145LR (Thread starter):
(I guess you could call AirTran and ATA lcc's, but i was thinking more like: JetBlue, Song, Independence Air(never would happen, b/c of IAD hub), SWA, and any of the other "core" LCCs)

FL is definately an LCC, and a core one at that. It is actually larger than Song, jetBlue, and Indy. Additionally, TZ is also a large LCC, much stronger now with WN on its side. F9 also serves DCA, and they are a large LCC
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
ERJ145LR
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RE: Why No LCCs For DCA?

Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:03 pm

Why was song in DC (iad) then they left? I wish they would come back, i never got a chance to fly them. Any plans for a return to DC?
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: Why No LCCs For DCA?

Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:32 pm

AirTran
Spirit
ATA
America West

Who you missing????
Independence - see IAD
Southwest - codeshare with ATA
JetBlue - see IAD


Such an expensive airport due to the expensive area its in. Primarily for business/government purposes. Limited slots, and lots of demand means prices will be high.

Although it depends on where you are going. NW is offering roundtrips of $112 on DTW-DCA to price match US & Spirit, thats is pretty darn cheap for that route to me.
 
ERJ145LR
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RE: Why No LCCs For DCA?

Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:51 pm

Sorry buddy...
America West isnt a LCC
By far......
 
gigneil
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RE: Why No LCCs For DCA?

Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:53 pm

They consider themselves as such, so, there you go.

N
 
bwione
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RE: Why No LCCs For DCA?

Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:54 pm

You also have two fairly large LCC focus city operations at BWI. Southwest has 164 daily flights and AirTran has 35 daily flights. So, 25 miles to the North, you have more than 200 flights (also Frontier, America West and USA 3000) and 25 miles to the west you have more than 200 flights (Independance, JetBlue and AirTran). Washington actually probably has one of the highest concentrations of LCC service in the country.

And DCA's LCC flights are nothing to complain about, service from AirTran, Spirit, Frontier, America West and ATA isn't too bad. The big issue at DCA is not the cost of the operation (i.e. landing fees), its access to the slots. The only way most of the LCCs even got into National in the first place was through additional slots that Congress had to force in.

Tony
 
ERJ145LR
Topic Author
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RE: Why No LCCs For DCA?

Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:54 pm

Well they arent

NO ONE will convince me!  Smile
 
gigneil
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RE: Why No LCCs For DCA?

Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:57 pm

Nobody has to.

America West is one of this country's major LCCs.

N
 
FlyingTexan
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RE: Why No LCCs For DCA?

Mon Mar 28, 2005 1:31 pm

Quoting ERJ145LR (Thread starter):
why is BWI by far always the cheapest out of the three Met. Washinton airports?

It is called the Southwest effect.
"Wouldn't your boss like to fly home nonstop at 4:30 on a Friday afternoon?" -Airline Exec to Congressional Staffer
 
DIA
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RE: Why No LCCs For DCA?

Mon Mar 28, 2005 1:40 pm

Isn't Frontier Airlines an LCC?

Good 'ole F9 flies A319s from DCA to DEN.
Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
 
September11
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RE: Why No LCCs For DCA?

Mon Mar 28, 2005 1:47 pm

Most DCA flyers are business travelers. LCCs are not fully business oriented airliners?

[Edited 2005-03-28 05:48:56]
Airliners.net of the Future
 
ouboy79
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RE: Why No LCCs For DCA?

Mon Mar 28, 2005 2:05 pm

You won't see a major LCC presence in DCA unless US or DL goes down. US being the largest in DCA would cause mass chaos at the airport as everyone tries to fill the large gap left behind. Unlike PIT...DCA has the O&D.  Smile

And yes...HP is an LCC...they have some of the lowest costs in the industry and that is what an LCC is...LOW COST CARRIER. Nothing to debate when the numbers are there.
 
jetbluefan1
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RE: Why No LCCs For DCA?

Mon Mar 28, 2005 3:50 pm

FL is definately an LCC, and a core one at that. It is actually larger than Song, jetBlue, and Indy.

Whoa there!! AirTran bigger than JetBlue? Perhaps more aircraft but definitely not "bigger." JetBlue offers both more ASM's and takes in more revenue. No arguing that it isn't a core LCC, however. IMO - WN, B6 and FL are the core LCC's in the U.S. I really dont know where HP stands as it seems too "complex" to me.

As far as the topic, I think DCA would see a great LCC presence if it weren't for the limited amount of slots. I hate slots...

JetBluefan1
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: Why No LCCs For DCA?

Mon Mar 28, 2005 3:54 pm

DCA would be a delay-proned, overcrowded, disaster of an operation without slots. Refer to ORD.....
 
eyesinthesky
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RE: Why No LCCs For DCA?

Mon Mar 28, 2005 3:58 pm

Speaking of Frontier Airlines,
Did they pull out of IAD? I havent seen them there in a while. Maybe only running a summer schedule?

EyEs
 
ERJ145LR
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RE: Why No LCCs For DCA?

Mon Mar 28, 2005 4:03 pm

did they ever fly to IAD?
 
unmlobo
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RE: Why No LCCs For DCA?

Mon Mar 28, 2005 4:04 pm

As far as BWI being the cheapest of the three Wash. airports that is not always true. I am looking flying out to Washington DC in May from ABQ and BWI is the most expensive of the three!
The views expressed do not necessarily represent those of Southwest Airlines its Directors or its Employees
 
eyesinthesky
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RE: Why No LCCs For DCA?

Mon Mar 28, 2005 4:05 pm

I remember passing the animal tails on the ramp last summer. Especially during the spring storm delays.

EyEs
 
SonOfACaptain
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RE: Why No LCCs For DCA?

Mon Mar 28, 2005 4:09 pm

Quoting ERJ145LR (Thread starter):
why is it such an expensive airport

Because that is where all the business men are.

-SOAC
Non Illegitimi Carborundum
 
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mariner
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RE: Why No LCCs For DCA?

Mon Mar 28, 2005 4:29 pm

Eyesinthesky:

Quoting Eyesinthesky (Reply 17):
Speaking of Frontier Airlines,
Did they pull out of IAD?

Frontier pulled out of IAD. There is some debate about why. Or even, why they went there.

From Day 1, DEN/DCA was a terrific route for them as 1 x daily. When Congress opened up some more beyond perimeter slots, Frontier applied for 4 (2 x landing, 2 x take off) to give them - if they got the slots - 3 x daily.

At the same time they applied for the DCA slots, they announced a 2 x daily service to IAD.

Several people raised their eyebrows, including me, and there was some concern that this would not help their DCA application.

However, Frontier management thought it would help the DCA case, and certainly they got the additional slots. As a 3 x daily, DEN/DCA is a terrific route for Frontier.

But then they announced they were dropping IAD, and several people, including myself, raised their eyebrows.

Did they start DEN/IAD in case they didn't get the additional DCA slots? Did they start IAD to show DOT they were serious about Washington? Did they always hope to run both routes?

Mind you, they dropped IAD at about the time the price of fuel (oil) was going throguh the roof, so that they have something to do with it.

But who knows?

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
gigneil
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RE: Why No LCCs For DCA?

Tue Mar 29, 2005 3:54 am

Nobody has mentioned Alaska, either, which is an LCC.

N
 
Thucydides
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RE: Why No LCCs For DCA?

Tue Mar 29, 2005 4:09 am

Quoting FlyingTexan (Reply 11):
It is called the Southwest effect.

No, it is called the Supply and Demand effect. DCA has the highest demand because of proximity to downtown Washington, plus a limited supply of slots and destinations. For Dulles and BWI, their demand stems largely from which is closer to where you live in the city and in the region. For much of DC, parts of Maryland and for Northern Virginia, IAD is easier to get to than BWI. Another factor would be where you are going, but most fares at BWI approximate those for IAD.

Personally, I need to see a fare of about $200 cheaper to go to BWI over DCA or IAD.

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