FlyingTexan
Topic Author
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Southwest Airlines May Move Their Headquarters

Wed Mar 30, 2005 2:07 pm

Following is a link to a Fort Worth Star-Telegram article.

http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/business/11256662.htm

Use http://www.bugmenot.com as that site requires registration.

JR – the FlyingTexan
"Wouldn't your boss like to fly home nonstop at 4:30 on a Friday afternoon?" -Airline Exec to Congressional Staffer
 
aa757first
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RE: Southwest Airlines May Move Their Headquarters

Wed Mar 30, 2005 2:14 pm

Maybe Southwest should just move over to DFW.

Quoting The Article:
The airline has rejected service at D/FW because the busy airport, which is American Airlines' largest hub, doesn't fit Southwest's business model.

If PHL, a very delay-prone airport, fits, why doesn't DFW?

AAndrew
 
toltommy
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RE: Southwest Airlines May Move Their Headquarters

Wed Mar 30, 2005 2:20 pm

To quote the relevant part of the article:

"Kelly also pointed out that Dallas may cease to be a good location for the company's headquarters if the restrictions stay in place.

Although stressing that he isn't threatening to move over the Wright Amendment fight, he acknowledged that Southwest's Love Field operation is shrinking while the airline is growing rapidly in other cities like Philadelphia and Chicago.

"Southwest is a growing company, but it's not growing in Texas," Ricks said. "The fact of the matter is, a shrinking market is not the best site to have a corporate headquarters."

Chicago attracted Boeing, what to stop them from attracting WN?
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Southwest Airlines May Move Their Headquarters

Wed Mar 30, 2005 2:26 pm

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 1):
Maybe Southwest should just move over to DFW.

Maybe Southwest should run the company as best they see fit, rather than let another entity (DFW, AA, whomever) run the company for them.

If ATL and Delta told AirTran how to run their airline, folks would think that they were nuts...

In addition to the article at the start of the thread, there was an editorial in the Dallas Morning News on the subject.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...032805dnediwrightpoints.11816.html

(Use the bugmenot link above)...

[Edited 2005-03-30 06:30:01]
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
StowAway
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RE: Southwest Airlines May Move Their Headquarters

Wed Mar 30, 2005 2:31 pm

It sounds like a ploy to help in the Wright Amendment fight to me. That is a lot of dollars from the economy if WN leaves.

They are always welcome in Nashville, though!
A monkey's ass always talks crap.
 
planespotting
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RE: Southwest Airlines May Move Their Headquarters

Wed Mar 30, 2005 2:47 pm

I say chicago.


The only reason i haven't explored southwest airlines more as a career opportunity is the fact that i'd have to live in Dallas.

and Texas and Eric don't jive. except austin. austin's sweet.
Do you like movies about gladiators?
 
swadispatcher
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RE: Southwest Airlines May Move Their Headquarters

Wed Mar 30, 2005 2:54 pm

We're downsizing the FA base by another 30 next month, and there were about the same amount last month.. the base only continues to shrink cause they are trimming flights.
Maintain 2300 until Boiler, cleared for the VOR-A approach, report BATLE inbound..
 
incitatus
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RE: Southwest Airlines May Move Their Headquarters

Wed Mar 30, 2005 2:59 pm

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 2):
"Southwest is a growing company, but it's not growing in Texas," Ricks said. "The fact of the matter is, a shrinking market is not the best site to have a corporate headquarters."

Houston doesn't have similar restrictions to Dallas, so why isn't Southwest growing in Houston? Or Austin & San Antonio?
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wjcandee
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RE: Southwest Airlines May Move Their Headquarters

Wed Mar 30, 2005 3:37 pm

Fact is, Dallas is a GREAT place for Southwest to be, and they know it. The quality of the workforce and the low cost of living are an amazing one-two punch. Add the fact that Texas doesn't have a state income tax, and it's a knockout.

That's why GTE, Exxon-Mobil, Greyhound and various others all moved to Dallas in the 80s and 90s. As a New Yorker, I hate to say it, but all the Exxon folks that I knew when I lived in Las Colinas were delighted to have made the move. Dallas is no hick town, and it lacks a lot of the problems of my hometown. The ex-New Yorkers who moved, to a person, felt GREAT about the decision to leave, after they adjusted to the huge, clean supermarkets and the fact that they could have a HOUSE and a car for what they paid for their apartment in Queens. They felt bad for the many folks that stayed in NYC. Particularly at the administrative staff level (mid level managers, secretaries, etc.), the difference in quality of life was enormous. One thing many folks commented on was the quality of the schools, a perennial problem in the Big Apple. From an employer's perspective, it's very easy to find folks who consider their word to be their bond, and who are ready to give a full day's work for a day's pay. After almost a decade in Texas, I couldn't find a bad thing to say about the folks there, and I always thought it was a GREAT place to do business. I moved back home to NYC because my firm wanted me there. I am very happy here (I'm just a happy guy, I guess), but I'll always have extremely fond memories of my time in Dallas.

Not to say there aren't plenty of places in the Midwest that offer some of these benefits, but...

Bottom line: Southwest would be insane to leave the state. It ain't happening.

Now, as between Houston and Dallas, the cities are very different in a lot of ways, but that's certainly a move I could see happening.
 
SonOfACaptain
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RE: Southwest Airlines May Move Their Headquarters

Wed Mar 30, 2005 3:43 pm

Quoting StowAway (Reply 4):
It sounds like a ploy to help in the Wright Amendment fight to me.

My thoughts exactly.

-SOAC
Non Illegitimi Carborundum
 
thomasphoto60
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RE: Southwest Airlines May Move Their Headquarters

Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:22 pm

I tend to concur with SOAC and StowAway. I too see this as a not very subtle ploy to push the powers that be to eliminate 'Wright '. That said if WN were to move, I would hope that they simply would not abandon the state that gave it birth and was a driving force in it's success. As Wjcandee stated, Texas is almost the perfect home for WN and their business model, and they would be 'nuts' to leave.

Thomas

[Edited 2005-03-30 08:24:40]
"Show me the Braniffs"
 
n844aa
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RE: Southwest Airlines May Move Their Headquarters

Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:33 pm

If I recall correctly, when the state of Texas chartered a high-speed rail link between Dallas-Houston-San Antonio using TGV technology, Southwest used a similar threat (among others) to encourage the state to revoke the charter (which it eventually was.) The public nature of this "discussion" leads me to think this, at least at some level, part of their camapign against the Wright Amendment.
New airplanes, new employees, low fares, all touchy-feely ... all of them are losers. -Gordon Bethune
 
txagkuwait
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RE: Southwest Airlines May Move Their Headquarters

Thu Mar 31, 2005 3:59 am

I wouldn't call it a threat. I would call it a promise.

Southwest is willing and able to exercise whatever clout it has to get things done that are in their best interest.

Several years ago, the city of El Paso laid a MASSIVE increase in landing fees, gate rentals, and what-have-you on the airlines.

Southwest told the city it was a bad move. They told the city that it would influence future decisions on numbers and varieties of flights emanating from their fair city.

The city ignored Southwest, to their peril.

ABQ and ELP are very similar cities in size and demand for air travel. They always have been.

Southwest offers nonstops from El Paso to LAX, SAN. PHX, ABQ, MAF, LBB, DAL, HOU, AUS, SAT, LAS

Since the city of El Paso ignored the sage advice of Southwest, Albuquerque has picked up nonstops to those cities ( minus AUS & SAT) but has picked up nonstops to Oakland, Tucson, Portland, Seattle, Chicago, Baltimore, Kansas City, St. Louis, Amarillo (let us not forget Amarillo!) Orlando and Tampa.

Had the city fathers of El Paso listened to Southwest, they'd probably be enjoying all the additional traffic and commerce that flights to those places would provide. Too bad, it was more important for them to try and squeeze the airlines for every dime they wanted right then. Southwest hasn;t pulled any service...they make too much money to do so....but they haven't put anything new in to El Paso in years.

So I say to the city of Dallas: fail to heed Southwest management at your own risk.
 
LY4XELD
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RE: Southwest Airlines May Move Their Headquarters

Thu Mar 31, 2005 4:23 am

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 3):
be Southwest should run the company as best they see fit, rather than let another entity (DFW, AA, whomever) run the company for them

Why would "moving" (which I assume means operations) means that DFW would "run the company for them"? Their headquarters could still be at DAL.

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 8):
The ex-New Yorkers who moved, to a person, felt GREAT about the decision to leave, after they adjusted to the huge, clean supermarkets and the fact that they could have a HOUSE and a car for what they paid for their apartment in Queens

Amen to that (as an "ex New Yorker").
That's why we're here.
 
manu
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RE: Southwest Airlines May Move Their Headquarters

Thu Mar 31, 2005 4:31 am

Quoting Planespotting (Reply 5):
is the fact that i'd have to live in Dallas

I'm with you there... I moved down to Dallas for a year and a half. I couldn't wait to leave. My job rocked, but I just couldn't get comfortable in that city. Although it was handy living near AA's hub, which is the only reason I agreed to take the job. And to work with DFW airport on a few contracts, which was sweet to see in their operation.

Quoting Planespotting (Reply 5):
Texas and Eric don't jive. except austin. austin's sweet

You've earned a RR from me for this one!

Seriously, why does Southwest need to move their operations? Although I do think that Wright amendment needs to be quashed. Stupid... I always wanted to fly Southwest home (well, to BUF), but I couldn't because of that. Couldn't they change the amendment to make it 737-sized aircraft only? Then WN would be happy and the longer or high density Int'l flights will still go out of DFW.
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
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RE: Southwest Airlines May Move Their Headquarters

Thu Mar 31, 2005 4:40 am

It sounds like a ploy to help in the Wright Amendment fight to me.

And a rather thinly-veiled one, at that.

But if they DO elect to move their corporate offices, odds are they'd want them to be not only in a city they have large operations in, but one that reflects the "Southwest" name itself.

My bets would be PHX or LAS...if they move their HQ at all, that is.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
ntspelich
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RE: Southwest Airlines May Move Their Headquarters

Thu Mar 31, 2005 4:45 am

Yeah, that's why we just finished construction a couple months back on an addition to the hdq building.

NTS
United 717 heavy, you're facing the wrong way. Any chance you can powerback to get off of my deice pad?
 
exFATboy
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RE: Southwest Airlines May Move Their Headquarters

Thu Mar 31, 2005 4:50 am

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 1):
If PHL, a very delay-prone airport, fits, why doesn't DFW?

Because Philadelphia is a good market, US' weakness is just too tempting, and Philadelphia itself doesn't have an alternate airport. The nearest alternatives are Wilmington or Trenton-Mercer, with Allentown a little further.

*EDIT - scratch Wilmington. I had looked at the website for ILM - that's North Carolina, not Delaware. Silly me. Next paragraph edited to remove references to ILM.*

If US was healthy, I wouldn't have been surprised to see WN try TTN eventually - you'd get some draw from Philly and the suburbs, Atlantic City, and perhaps even some from the Jersey Shore and Central NJ.

And I agree that the entire "headquarters" remark is just a remarkably unsubtle attempt to get Dallas politicians on-side:

"Southwest is a growing company, but it's not growing in Texas," Ricks said. "The fact of the matter is, a shrinking market is not the best site to have a corporate headquarters."

Unless there's a context problem with the quote, this is a really foolish remark. The Texas market is not shrinking, nor (to the best of my knowledge) is the Dallas market, at least not O&D, so why did he say this? AFAIK, even Southwest's traffic in Dallas is not shrinking.

DAL is shrinking as a percentage of WN's total traffic, but even if that's what he meant, so what? That would be an even stupider thing to say. Where your corporate headquarters is has absolutely nothing to do with where your growth is. SkyWest's HQ is in St. George, Utah. Does that stop them from growing in other parts of the US? Westjet's corporate HQ is in Calgary, but by this logic they should move their CHQ to Toronto now that their growth is occuring more in the East.

Yes, I know what he was trying to accomplish, but blantantly transparent attempts at manipulation like this put Dallas politicians and businessmen who support WN's efforts to repeal the idiotic WA in a bad position.

And realistically, where would WN move the CHQ to?

[Edited 2005-03-30 20:59:18]

[Edited 2005-03-30 21:00:32]

[Edited 2005-03-30 21:01:26]
 
PHLBOS
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RE: Southwest Airlines May Move Their Headquarters

Thu Mar 31, 2005 4:56 am

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 1):
If PHL, a very delay-prone airport, fits, why doesn't DFW?

Reasons:

1. In the Philadelphia area, there is no second airport close by that supports scheduled service in the same metropolitan region. PNE hasn't had a carrier offer scheduled service in over a decade and there are no signs of service ever returning. BWI along w/ABE & ACY are too far away to be realistically considered part of the same serving area.

2. If there are 2 airports that support scheduled service in the same metropolitan area and given a choice, WN will always choose the least traffic/delay prone airport; especially if the larger airport is a hub for a legacy carrier (where potential for some mischief could play out). Other examples of these include MDW vs. ORD, FLL vs. MIA, OAK vs. SFO, and recently HOU vs. IAH. Yes, I am aware that WN used to serve both HOU and IAH; but that clearly is an exception to their usual rule.

[Edited 2005-03-30 20:59:37]
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
thomacf
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RE: Southwest Airlines May Move Their Headquarters

Thu Mar 31, 2005 5:14 am

I would bet on Chicago if they decide to move. Makes sense for a number of reasons. They are continuing to grow out of MDW, Chicago is centrally located, has many Fortune 500 & 1000 companies already based in the area and is closer to the Northeastern financial centers. That's a huge reason why Boeing moved there. Closer to ATA operations. Chicago is very large city with alot of prestige where Fortune 500 companies go if they don't want to be in California or New York City as both places have a high cost of living. Chicago does as well, but it offers a great central urban environment that would be a great draw for younger employees and empty nesters and a variety of suburbs for families. Overall the whole region provides a very good quality of life for any company's employees.
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Southwest Airlines May Move Their Headquarters

Thu Mar 31, 2005 5:15 am

Quoting LY4XELD (Reply 13):
Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 3):
be Southwest should run the company as best they see fit, rather than let another entity (DFW, AA, whomever) run the company for them

Why would "moving" (which I assume means operations) means that DFW would "run the company for them"? Their headquarters could still be at DAL.

The decision on whether SWA should fly out of DFW is SWA's, and nobody else's. The "solution" from the DFW/AA camp is to have SWA come DFW, and they don't seem accepting of anything else. It doesn't matter whether DFW/AA think SWA at DFW is a good idea, it's whether SWA does, and they don't....
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
tockeyhockey
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RE: Southwest Airlines May Move Their Headquarters

Thu Mar 31, 2005 5:24 am

PHL has been hugely successful for WN, and due to a skyscraper building binge, the city has a glut of office space. WN could find some cheap digs and would be poised to pick up the slack if US went out of business, including annexing US fleet operations personnel and maintenance buildings.
 
n844aa
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RE: Southwest Airlines May Move Their Headquarters

Thu Mar 31, 2005 5:26 am

You know, I wonder if DFW would be a smart choice for WN on the basis of DFW metro area population distribution alone. There are over a million people in Tarrant County (Ft. Worth & Arlington) for whom DFW is significantly closer than DAL. And though I don't live on that side of the Metroplex, my impression is that the fast-growing North Dallas suburbs have somewhat more direct access to DFW than to DAL.

Or, on another tack altogether... I'm totally going to pull this scenario out of nowhere (and I look forward to being told why it's unworkable), but what if the city of Fort Worth were to upgrade Meacham Field (small airport in north Ft. Worth.) to WN standards? My understanding is that WN could operate there without running afoul of the Wright Amendment. That way they could more directly serve the Tarrant County market as well as drawing long-distance travelers from around the Metroplex without having to take on AA at DFW (think about their fist years there and the dirty tricks they played on BN.)
New airplanes, new employees, low fares, all touchy-feely ... all of them are losers. -Gordon Bethune
 
BOSSAN
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RE: Southwest Airlines May Move Their Headquarters

Thu Mar 31, 2005 5:42 am

Quoting ExFATboy (Reply 17):
Unless there's a context problem with the quote, this is a really foolish remark. The Texas market is not shrinking, nor (to the best of my knowledge) is the Dallas market, at least not O&D, so why did he say this? AFAIK, even Southwest's traffic in Dallas is not shrinking.

The Texas market is not shrinking. However, Southwest is removing a few seats from the market, shifting planes elsewhere in the system to beef up PHL, PIT and MDW and retiring its 732s. When Southwest closes IAH, it's not shifting those 6 weekday flights to HOU; the number of flights between DAL and HOU remains at 29 per day. (Wow.) Additionally, Southwest announced some minor cuts in HOU-MSY and DAL-MSY flight frequencies and other adjustments to their schedule last fall.

My guess is that Southwest feels it has won the intra-Texas market wars and isn't afraid of Continental and American trying to flood them with capacity right now, so can shoot for higher load factors on marginally fewer flights.
 
boeingfever777
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RE: Southwest Airlines May Move Their Headquarters

Thu Mar 31, 2005 5:42 am

Quoting Planespotting (Reply 5):
except austin. austin's sweet.

Nice! Weather here today is AWESOME! Good choice on the Best city in Texas!

As for WN leaving Texas....doubt that serioulsy. I know the Wright Amendent hurts WN in this area. As long as Herb is around the company they will stay in Texas. Eitherway I hope they stay in Texas and do not decide to move north.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
 
drerx7
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RE: Southwest Airlines May Move Their Headquarters

Thu Mar 31, 2005 5:50 am

I believe that if they moved they would move the HQ to Houston, simply due to the history. One reason why they have not grown in Houston is due to gate space; however they have just moved into a new 24 gate central concourse--so that could easily be alleviated. The reason why they are growing in PHX and LAS are due to the large tourist and O&D markets. Chicago and BWI are large stations due to the bloodletting of competitors. They'd move the HQ to Houston to spite Dallas/Ft. Worth region; but in the end I believe it is all a ploy to manipulate them into removing the Wright Amendment.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
BHMNONREV
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RE: Southwest Airlines May Move Their Headquarters

Thu Mar 31, 2005 6:03 am

Quoting N844AA (Reply 22):
You know, I wonder if DFW would be a smart choice for WN on the basis of DFW metro area population distribution alone. There are over a million people in Tarrant County (Ft. Worth & Arlington) for whom DFW is significantly closer than DAL. And though I don't live on that side of the Metroplex, my impression is that the fast-growing North Dallas suburbs have somewhat more direct access to DFW than to DAL.

Or, on another tack altogether... I'm totally going to pull this scenario out of nowhere (and I look forward to being told why it's unworkable), but what if the city of Fort Worth were to upgrade Meacham Field (small airport in north Ft. Worth.) to WN standards? My understanding is that WN could operate there without running afoul of the Wright Amendment. That way they could more directly serve the Tarrant County market as well as drawing long-distance travelers from around the Metroplex without having to take on AA at DFW (think about their fist years there and the dirty tricks they played on BN.)

You bring up a couple of good points. Maybe instead of AA spending all of their time and energy fighting the repeal of the WA and trying to force WN to DFW, they should TRY to get Love Field opened up and let Southwest do their thing there and keep DFW all to themselves. As you pointed out, Tarrant County and North Dallas residents probably find DFW more convenient for their needs. Those are the customers who AA and DFW need to focus on. If AA would take a moment to sit back and consider the consequences of WN shifting their entire Dallas operation to DFW, they would realize that would be suicide for American. They do not want to take on WN on a level playing field...

In regards to Meacham, I personally don't know enough about the airport to say whether or not it would be suitable for WN operations, but I seriously think all of their eggs are sitting in the DAL basket and they would have no interest in serving the western part of the Metroplex, since I believe that market has been conceded to DFW. But who am I to say, stranger things have happened..
 
prosa
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RE: Southwest Airlines May Move Their Headquarters

Thu Mar 31, 2005 6:16 am

Corporations invariably lose many of their employees when they relocate their headquarters or other significant operations. While some people will relocate, many others won't or can't, for a whole host of reasons. WN certainly isn't going to be any different. They will lose many employees if they relocate to Houston or Chicago or wherever, and that will cause a considerable amount of disruption and hard feelings. That's not to say that relocation is necessarily a bad idea, but moving just because DAL is no longer WN's largest station is rather pointless.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
MSYtristar
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RE: Southwest Airlines May Move Their Headquarters

Thu Mar 31, 2005 6:21 am

Quoting BOSSAN (Reply 23):
Additionally, Southwest announced some minor cuts in HOU-MSY and DAL-MSY flight frequencies and other adjustments to their schedule last fall.

Southwest cut three HOU-MSY flights but did not cut any DAL-MSY departures. They still have 17 HOU-MSY flights on weekdays and 7 DAL-MSY flights on weekdays.
 
blackknight
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RE: Southwest Airlines May Move Their Headquarters

Thu Mar 31, 2005 6:34 am

I think a better move would be to LAS. High O&D traffic and the possibility of international travel with the 787/A350 range if WN ever goes international. The strip would by in to having thousands of passengers passing by each day as they are farmed out to the rest of the WN network. LAS is already WN's largest center why not make it home.
BK
 
drerx7
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RE: Southwest Airlines May Move Their Headquarters

Thu Mar 31, 2005 6:40 am

787/A350 if Southwest goes international huh.  eyebrow   sarcastic 
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
Greyhound
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RE: Southwest Airlines May Move Their Headquarters

Thu Mar 31, 2005 7:21 am

In response to EA CO AS post: My bets would be PHX or LAS IF they move their hq at all....

Would Southwest hq really want to move to PHX? I think LAS would be a better fit if they did move because of the large growth that is in that area. PHX is a growing area too, but they'd have to squeeze in next to America West. Then again, WN did just get that new concourse on terminal 4 at Sky Harbor......
29th, Let's Go!
 
NWAFA
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RE: Southwest Airlines May Move Their Headquarters

Thu Mar 31, 2005 7:24 am

I hardly think Southwest will move...it is such a politic move and ploy to get the Wright Admendment changed...Its very clear what Southwest is doing....were going to scream were moving unless this is changed..its a temper tantrum.
THANK YOU FOR FLYING NORTHWEST AIRLINES, WE TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS!
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Southwest Airlines May Move Their Headquarters

Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:16 am

Quoting NWAFA (Reply 32):
Its very clear what Southwest is doing....were going to scream were moving unless this is changed..its a temper tantrum.

WN's assets and revenue are taxed in Dallas County, yet, they are severely limited by the perimeter rules in DAL. Why should they put up with that? If their boost to the economy is not appreciated, they will take their tax dollars elsewhere. Business at the simplest level.

Quoting Greyhound (Reply 31):
PHX is a growing area too, but they'd have to squeeze in next to America West. Then again, WN did just get that new concourse on terminal 4 at Sky Harbor......

I think they mean corporate HQ... which can be in just about any corporate office in the U.S.

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 1):
If PHL, a very delay-prone airport, fits, why doesn't DFW?

Does Philly have a suitable alternative airport to PHL?

You guys want some real sweet irony? Jim Wright, whom orchestrated the now infamous legislation, was the politician who convinced AA to relocate their corperate HQ in the DFW area. Now it appears his legacy might cause the largest domestic airline to relocate out of the DFW area!
 
n844aa
Posts: 1266
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RE: Southwest Airlines May Move Their Headquarters

Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:27 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 33):
You guys want some real sweet irony? Jim Wright, whom orchestrated the now infamous legislation, was the politician who convinced AA to relocate their corperate HQ in the DFW area. Now it appears his legacy might cause the largest domestic airline to relocate out of the DFW area!

Yeah, I agree that it's a fairly ironic state of affairs, but you could lalso ook at it this way: Jim Wright's legacy is that the largest and sixth largest airlines in the country are headquartered in the Metroplex in 2005. If one of them decides to relocate, don't blame Wright, blame the 95th-109th Congresses.

At this point, I can't see any good reason for the Wright Amendment sticking around, but it worked without hampering WN too much.
New airplanes, new employees, low fares, all touchy-feely ... all of them are losers. -Gordon Bethune
 
NWAFA
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RE: Southwest Airlines May Move Their Headquarters

Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:29 am

Southwest is a very smart company, they are not going to spend millions on a move.
THANK YOU FOR FLYING NORTHWEST AIRLINES, WE TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS!
 
txagkuwait
Posts: 1388
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RE: Southwest Airlines May Move Their Headquarters

Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:49 am

NWAFA thinks it is a temper tantrum.

He or she may very well be right.

But the question is......how badly does the city of Dallas want to gamble that it is a temper tantrum?

Southwest having their corporate headquarters injects an awful lot of tax revenue in to Dallas.

The headquarters employees who work their spend a big chunk of their wages to keep the local economy energetic.

As a I recall, there is an ad valorem property tax levied on the aircraft (or at least a portion of the aircraft) due to the fact that the company is headquartered there.

Repeal Wright or we move. That's a very simple equation. And we are not talking about a piddly little 3 airplane airline anymore. We're not even talking about an intrastate carrier with 18 planes or the 56-airplane airline that Southwest was back in 1986.

We are talking about a 400+ aircraft carrier that carries more domestic passengers than any other airline. We are talking about an incredibly solvent corporation whose stock is looked upon as suitable for widows and orphans. We are talking about a firm who, when they issue debt, they get prime rate or better.

The city of Dallas can ill afford to risk this. I expect the mayor might have an apoplectic attack if and when she sees the u-haul trailers and Bekins vans lining up on Denton Drive.
 
whiskeyhotel
Posts: 291
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 5:46 am

RE: Southwest Airlines May Move Their Headquarters

Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:21 am

I think Drerx7 got it right...If WN moves anywhere it will be to Houston. There would be minimal relocation costs compared to some of the other locations mentioned. WN has a large operation at Hobby, and has had since very early in the company's history. The city of Houston would welcome them with open arms and probably some nifty tax reliefs. They would still be in Texas, so no state income tax and a low cost of living (Dallas and Houston are about even in the Cost of Living Department...with Houston perhaps being a bit lower). Also, if WN really wanted to rub it in with a serious up-yours to the folks running the show in Dallas local government, moving to Houston would be a far bigger insult than moving to Chicago or LAS.

As a side note (tongue held firmly in cheek), I take offence to whomever it was that posted a remark claiming Dallas is not a hick town. All Houstonians know that Dallas is and always has been a hick cowtown full of degenerates and neer-do-wells. The city has no redeeming qualities whatsoever and should be blotted from the face of the earth. I don't recall Dallas ever being capital of the Republic of Texas, and for good reason. In addition, we in Houston object vociferously to being called the armpit of the Gulf of Mexico. The tar on our beaches is of the most majestic low-sulphur light-sweet-crude variety. Our high humidity means we can skip the cost of a gym membership for steambaths (as it appears most Houstonians do, since we're the fattest city in the U.S.). Our "choking smog" as you Dallas residents like to refer to it (D-Town isn't much better) provides us with lovely electric purple and orange sunsets. Also, let's compare what other cities are within a 3-5hr drive of each respective city:

Houston: Austin, New Orleans, San Antonio, South Padre Island

Dallas: Monroe LA, Bossier City LA, Abilene, Oklahoma City, Lubbock, Texarkana
 
DfwRevolution
Posts: 8572
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:31 pm

RE: Southwest Airlines May Move Their Headquarters

Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:22 am

Quoting NWAFA (Reply 35):
Southwest is a very smart company, they are not going to spend millions on a move.

In many instances, a corperation that wants to relocate solicites bids from other metropolitan areas. Tax incentives are commonly offered, but reinbursement for moving expenses is not that uncommon. Even if it cost $1 billion to move, that could be remade in about 5 years from the additional tax base.

I believe Chicago and Dallas both offered Boeing a move-expenses package as part of their bid when they left Seattle. WN could get a very sweet deal anywhere they wanted.

This is a 100% legitiment tactic: very few (though some) law-makers outside of the DFW area have any remote interest in this issue. Therefore, it is of the upmost importance that WN convince local congressmen, senators, and mayors that they are deadly serious. Local law-makers are very divided on the issue, so WN needs to sway opinion to their side quickly.

How does Pete Sessions re-election prospects look if WN left his congressional district because of a congressional issue during his congressional tenure? Sessions beat vetran congressman Bill Frost in 2004, a local leader with a reputation for bringing General Motors plants and other companies to the region. Frost is still very active on the political scene, and how long would it take to brand a re-election slogan along the lines of-

"I brought business to Dallas, Sessions drove them away."
 
BNANative
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:43 am

RE: Southwest Airlines May Move Their Headquarters

Thu Mar 31, 2005 10:00 am

Here we go with my first post...

WN likely isn't going anywhere because they will get their way on the Wright amendment issue sooner or later. Everyone knows its a dinosaur piece of protectionist legislation.

However...

If they do leave then BNA is the place for them to be. We've got an airport that used to be a hub for AA. No state income tax, decent weather, cheap, enthusiastic, workforce, all the good stuff that any corporation would want. Ask Saturn, Nissan, and Dell about it.  Smile Why relocate to some cold, crowded, expensive place like PHL when they already have a great presence here as it is?

It won't happen but I can dream.  Cool
 
thomasphoto60
Posts: 3713
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 1:04 pm

RE: Southwest Airlines May Move Their Headquarters

Thu Mar 31, 2005 10:03 am

Quoting WhiskeyHotel (Reply 37):
As a side note (tongue held firmly in cheek), I take offence to whomever it was that posted a remark claiming Dallas is not a hick town. All Houstonians know that Dallas is and always has been a hick cowtown full of degenerates and neer-do-wells. The city has no redeeming qualities whatsoever and should be blotted from the face of the earth. I don't recall Dallas ever being capital of the Republic of Texas, and for good reason. In addition, we in Houston object vociferously to being called the armpit of the Gulf of Mexico. The tar on our beaches is of the most majestic low-sulphur light-sweet-crude variety. Our high humidity means we can skip the cost of a gym membership for steambaths (as it appears most Houstonians do, since we're the fattest city in the U.S.). Our "choking smog" as you Dallas residents like to refer to it (D-Town isn't much better) provides us with lovely electric purple and orange sunsets. Also, let's compare what other cities are within a 3-5hr drive of each respective city:



Houston: Austin, New Orleans, San Antonio, South Padre Island

Dallas: Monroe LA, Bossier City LA, Abilene, Oklahoma City, Lubbock, Texarkana



"U da Man"  highfive 

Thomas
"Show me the Braniffs"
 
DfwRevolution
Posts: 8572
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:31 pm

RE: Southwest Airlines May Move Their Headquarters

Thu Mar 31, 2005 10:07 am

Quoting BNANative (Reply 39):
WN likely isn't going anywhere because they will get their way on the Wright amendment issue sooner or later. Everyone knows its a dinosaur piece of protectionist legislation.

Everyone and their brother knows it, but as of yet, no local congressmen has taken action on this issue. WN is sending a crystal clear message that they want action at the next congressional session or sooner.

I agree that it's unlikely that they would, in fact, leave the Dallas area. This would burn every bridge imagineable and make it highly unlikely that local leaders would ever speak of the issue to WN. But as Tx points out, that isn't a risk Dallas County can take.
 
travelin man
Posts: 3198
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 10:04 am

RE: Southwest Airlines May Move Their Headquarters

Thu Mar 31, 2005 10:48 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 15):
My bets would be PHX or LAS...if they move their HQ at all, that is.

LAS seems like the most likely candidate, considering NV has no state income tax, and a relatively low cost of living. Of course, convincing people to move to Vegas from Dallas might be a problem, but considering LAS was one of the fastest growing cities in the US last year, it may not be that big of a problem. I, myself, could never live there, but some people obviously can.

(Note, I don't really think they will move, but then again, I never would have thought Boeing would have left Seattle either....)
 
Okie
Posts: 3551
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2003 11:30 am

RE: Southwest Airlines May Move Their Headquarters

Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:08 am

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 42):
LAS seems like the most likely candidate, considering NV has no state income tax

And neither does Texas.

You can bet that the powers that be will take income taxes into account as it will directly effect their disposable income.
There has been a huge migration of larger and prosperous companies leave Oklahoma and relocate in Texas because of high state income taxes in Oklahoma.

Okie
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: Southwest Airlines May Move Their Headquarters

Thu Mar 31, 2005 12:18 pm

Moving to Chicago sounds like it would be the most logical if they were to move their corporate offices out of Dallas. Just because they move the corporate offices doesn't mean the training department and some of the other departments on the campus would move with them. When Valujet and AirTran merged, instead of Atlanta being the corporate home (since in most cases the buyer in the merger keeps their corporate offices as the offices for the merged companies), they retained the Orlando offices of AirTran so to distance themselves a bit from the Valujet days. The City of Atlanta is still trying to get them to move their corporate offices (and the bulk of the operations there) back up to Atlanta (Part of corporate moved up to ATL when the new hangar opened). The main AirTran training center (For ramp, flight attendants, gate agents, and reservations agents) is in Atlanta, which was really one of the few things of the old Valujet offices that is still where it was at the time of the merger. If Southwest were to put out a notice for cities to present pitches on why WN should move their HQ to their city, here's the shortlist I think would emerge:

Chicago
Las Vegas
Oakland
Los Angeles
San Diego
Austin
San Antonio
New Orleans
 
travelin man
Posts: 3198
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 10:04 am

RE: Southwest Airlines May Move Their Headquarters

Thu Mar 31, 2005 12:23 pm

Los Angeles, Oakland, and San Diego are WAY too expensive. Just the cost of housing alone would be prohibitive.
 
stirling
Posts: 3897
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 2:00 am

RE: Southwest Airlines May Move Their Headquarters

Thu Mar 31, 2005 12:24 pm

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 38):
Bill Frost in 2004, a local leader with a reputation for bringing General Motors plants and other companies to the region.

Technically, shouldn't that read, "Keeping" GM?


I for one would like to see more of Love Field doing more of what is was designed to do, and that's handle passenger aircraft, and become less of an office park, that is a good thing......

Now IF Southwest leaves it's CURRENT location, here is my list of potential sites in order of importance.

1. If they move it will be within the region, like Arlington, or Las Colinas, or heck, Grapevine or Hurst.....Gotta admit they could use a headquarters building more becoming of the airline they've become.

2. San Antonio. The roots of the company go way back to the river city. They wouldn't have to play into the civic ego tug of war between Dallas and Houston.

3. Houston. If they really want to shake things up.

4. Nevada. Heaven for business.

Quoting ExFATboy (Reply 17):
*EDIT - scratch Wilmington. I had looked at the website for ILM - that's North Carolina, not Delaware. Silly me. Next paragraph edited to remove references to ILM.*

You were right the first time.
This airport would be a good regional alternative airport to Philadelphia. Fits into an LCC mold.....someday.

ILG Wilmington DELAWARE. New Castle County Airport.

United once flew there in the days of their "Service to All 50 States" period.
From ORD
Delete this User
 
FlyingTexan
Topic Author
Posts: 2998
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2003 8:30 am

RE: Southwest Airlines May Move Their Headquarters

Thu Mar 31, 2005 12:30 pm

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 42):
LAS seems like the most likely candidate, considering NV has no state income tax, and a relatively low cost of living

Keep in mind Texas has a significantly lower cost of living than Las Vegas. In the past 2 years, property values have gone through the roof in Vegas.

OPNL, thank you for the link to the Dallas Morning sNews editorial. Anyone else find the tattooed arm wrestling illustration ironic. Some years ago, Herb arm wrestled the CEO of Midway (IIRC) over the slogan “Just Plane Smart.”
"Wouldn't your boss like to fly home nonstop at 4:30 on a Friday afternoon?" -Airline Exec to Congressional Staffer
 
travelin man
Posts: 3198
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 10:04 am

RE: Southwest Airlines May Move Their Headquarters

Thu Mar 31, 2005 12:40 pm

Well, yeah, home prices have gone up in Vegas, but they started from a very low base, and according to this site:

http://www.homefair.com/homefair/calc/salcalc.html

the overall cost of living in Vegas is slightly lower than Dallas.
 
nomorerjs
Posts: 581
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 10:24 am

RE: Southwest Airlines May Move Their Headquarters

Thu Mar 31, 2005 12:55 pm

Southwest is not leaving Dallas anytime soon. The company recently completed an expansion of their corporate HQ in Dallas. It may not be the most glamorous part of town, but the advantages of a HQ in TX (Dallas) are greater than moving out of state (or to Houston). You will see more WN planes at MDW, PHL, and PHX this year. Dallas is limited until the WA is repealed. If that is to happen (hopefully it will), expect WN to add BWI, LAS, MDW, PHL, and PHX service followed by TPA, MCO, and LAX in the future.