Bofredrik
Topic Author
Posts: 1133
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The Steward Is Flying The Plane...

Wed Mar 30, 2005 9:41 pm

I have a friend that works as a steward for a Swedish charter airline. He also know how to fly a Cessna... He told me that he sometimes go in to the cockpit and is allowed to sit in the right seat and actually do some real flying under supervision from the captain... The co-pilot is then on the toilet or reading a newspaper (maybe both...) This seems to be quite strange but i am sure that he is not joking with me.  Wow!

Ps. It is April 1 tomorrow, not today. Ds.
 
ACDC8
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RE: The Steward Is Flying The Plane...

Wed Mar 30, 2005 10:17 pm

I would think that they would be flying on autopilot anyways, so your friend probably just sits there and keeps the f/o's seat warm when he's taking a poop!  Wink

cheers
Patrick
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
antiuser
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RE: The Steward Is Flying The Plane...

Wed Mar 30, 2005 10:23 pm

Quoting Bofredrik (Thread starter):
Ps. It is April 1 tomorrow, not today. Ds

Actually, that's the day after tomorrow... March had 31 days last time I checked, hehe
:D
Azzurri Campioni del Mondo!
 
Bofredrik
Topic Author
Posts: 1133
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 1999 4:17 pm

RE: The Steward Is Flying The Plane...

Thu Mar 31, 2005 3:26 am

He is doing heading changes, altitude changes, talking to ATC etc so it is not just sitting in the seat...
 
Flighttime
Posts: 62
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RE: The Steward Is Flying The Plane...

Thu Mar 31, 2005 5:14 am

Well if this is true, and I don't believe it is, the idiot captain who allows this lunacy to happen can expect to make a court appearance if found out.But believe me, cabin crew are very good at exagerating/fabricating the truth!
 
jonty
Posts: 221
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2004 3:10 am

RE: The Steward Is Flying The Plane...

Thu Mar 31, 2005 5:36 am

I've seen mention of this on TV where a co-pilot let a F/A fly for a bit while the pilot was on the loo, but he came back and caught them and went mental!!!
 
Sean-SAN-
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RE: The Steward Is Flying The Plane...

Thu Mar 31, 2005 6:57 am

When one of the pilots need to goto the lav, and drop anchor for a while, I don't think it's uncommon to have the FA waiting in the cockpit take a seat. I don't see what's the big deal letting him turn a few knobs.
 
Lairyliam
Posts: 69
Joined: Wed May 19, 2004 9:21 pm

RE: The Steward Is Flying The Plane...

Thu Mar 31, 2005 7:00 am

Quoting Sean-SAN- (Reply 6):
I don't see what's the big deal letting him turn a few knobs

until they hit the wrong button..... Then its to late...
"Lairy"liam
12MILES NNE OF THE IOM VOR
 
DLKAPA
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RE: The Steward Is Flying The Plane...

Thu Mar 31, 2005 7:03 am

What is the law assuming the Captain is CFI certified? (And assuming this is America, shouldn't he be?). Does the plane have to be empty or is it legal, albeit not part of SOP, for this to happen?

Also, the F/a going into the cockpit while one of the pilots empties the lav truck, so to speak, is not uncommon, and actually done as a security procedure. This allows someone to lock the cockpit door behind the F/O and still have someone flying the plane at the same time.
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
ACDC8
Posts: 7175
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RE: The Steward Is Flying The Plane...

Thu Mar 31, 2005 7:03 am

Quoting Lairyliam (Reply 7):
Quoting Sean-SAN- (Reply 6):
I don't see what's the big deal letting him turn a few knobs

until they hit the wrong button..... Then its to late...

Which button is that? The F/A call button.... rotfl 
(sorry, I couldn't resist)

cheers
Patrick
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
Lairyliam
Posts: 69
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RE: The Steward Is Flying The Plane...

Thu Mar 31, 2005 7:14 pm

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 9):
Which button is that? The F/A call button....

hahaha....
12MILES NNE OF THE IOM VOR
 
ejmmsu
Posts: 1647
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RE: The Steward Is Flying The Plane...

Thu Mar 31, 2005 7:27 pm

Last summer I was flying RDU-DFW on a Delta Connection flight operated by EV. (this was before DL pulled out of DFW). I sat in the front row, and talked to the extremely nice male flight attended for a little while about life as a flight attendent, how he got interested in the job, about his family back in Dallas, etc. About halfway through the flight, either the captain or co-pilot came out of the cockpit and and spoke a few words to the F.A. The co-pilot then walked back to the lavoratory, and the F.A. quickly walked into the cabin and sat down without shutting the cockpit door.

When the pilot returned from the lav, the F.A. came back out like nothing was out of the ordinary. He then told me that the most amazing views come from the front. It seemed to me that the whole flight crew was very close-knit, and it was a common occurence for the F.A. to sit in the cockpit when vacant. I don't think this was as much to fly the plane as it was to simply enjoy the view.
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
iakobos
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RE: The Steward Is Flying The Plane...

Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:22 pm

I have personally seen this done a few times while I was myself in the cockpit.
The company was a charter, there were no pax onboard, the "temporary" right seat pilot(s) was in an advanced stage of his CPL.
I recall seeing two operations officers, one dispatcher and one f/a doing this.
None of the "critical" phases of flights were involved, but cruise and descent.
 
bearcuban12
Posts: 89
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RE: The Steward Is Flying The Plane...

Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:24 pm

I know a loadmaster that regularly does 10 min stints at the controls so the captain can have a break.

I have flown a B707f when the captain went for a cigarette (no smoking on flight deck) and also a AN-12 over the Sahara whilst the captain went to the toilet.


But all above examples are on cargo flights with less than reputable operators. I think pax flights are extremely different.
 
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NWOrientDC10
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RE: The Steward Is Flying The Plane...

Sat Apr 02, 2005 2:11 pm

I do not see a problem with a pilot allowing a steward to occupy a flight deck seat. This is a common sense issue; pilots are competent and would not allow some oaf who would just start pushing buttons and turning knobs (duh, what's this?) to sit at the controls.

Take Care,

Russell
Things aren't always as they seem
 
UAalltheway
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RE: The Steward Is Flying The Plane...

Sat Apr 02, 2005 2:46 pm

I'd like to see what the airline would do if they found out about this.
 
kellmark
Posts: 542
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2000 12:05 pm

RE: The Steward Is Flying The Plane...

Sat Apr 02, 2005 3:44 pm

These days, after 9/11, under US rules, another crew member is required to be in the cockpit whenever one of the flight crew leaves it to use the restroom. That is for security reasons. There always has to be 2 people in the cockpit. So a flight attendant would be tasked to go into the cockpit while this is going on. I have seen it a number of times.
 
Foxy
Posts: 144
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2004 10:54 pm

RE: The Steward Is Flying The Plane...

Sat Apr 02, 2005 3:49 pm

If the aircraft is in autopilot, i don't see the harm in letting the F/A temporarily occupying the right hand seat twiddle a few knobs to execute heading and altitude changes.
 
jetboyflyhi
Posts: 173
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 1:30 pm

RE: The Steward Is Flying The Plane...

Sat Apr 02, 2005 4:43 pm

It's Flight Attendant not Steward... I am a Flight Attendant and I have my Private Pilot License. Get over it .
Chicken or Beef?
 
QANTASforever
Posts: 5794
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2001 6:03 am

RE: The Steward Is Flying The Plane...

Sat Apr 02, 2005 4:56 pm

Yeah it does happen - even on more reputable carriers (please read username).

My dad was a FA for Qantas for well over 30 years and he took the controls of an aircraft under supervision more than once or twice.

A somewhat related story:
One night in Athens a whole bunch of the cabin crew went out and got completely blind drunk. They turn up the next morning sick as dogs and spent most of the flight lying across a few seats in economy (it was a ferry flight, so no PR damage done). A friend of my dad's was allowed to take the controls of the aircraft (b742) and did a few small turns from side to side - the pilot also made things nice and bumpy for everyone on board. Needless to say - the sickbags got a good workout.

QFF
Fighting for the glory of the Australian Republic.
 
wing
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Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2000 9:10 pm

RE: The Steward Is Flying The Plane...

Sat Apr 02, 2005 6:14 pm

I have seen some captains showing the brand new FA's how to turn the airplane in flight with HDG SEL knob but I wouldnt refer to it as "taking the controls".

In my previous company we had male and female flight attendants who actually were holding different degrees of pilot licences,I personally have offered some of them, hands on training of FMC loading,or SID set up or walkaround the airplane(all on the ground) but occupying the pilots seat in flight is a different story which personally I find it not acceptable.

A few years ago I had a TCAS RA incident while in cruise over Hungary Austria border.The MD 80(or one of the variants) flying at FL 370 with a call sigh indicating that its a Ferry flight(I dont want to say the name of the company and the flight number here) suddenly vacated the FL with an awkward descent (definetely not a pilot maneuver) causing a RA to be triggered,we descended and they recovered back up,but we clearly saw the company name and the aircraft type on the fuselage.After the incident from the developing sequence of it and regarding the fact that it was a ferry flight,we thought it may be someone(a non pilot) was manupulating the controls and caused this to happen.Ofcourse we dont have any proof of anykind that a nonpilot was on the controls of the other airplane but it looked like it.
So it is possible that a FA or a non pilot can accidently touch something that he/she doesnt supposed to touch therefore it is very dangerous to allow anybody on the pilot seat in flight.
follow me on my facebook page" captain wing's journey log"
 
KLMyank
Posts: 168
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RE: The Steward Is Flying The Plane...

Sat Apr 02, 2005 6:42 pm

until they hit the wrong button...

LOL! Maybe you have never seen a new, green second officer/cruise relief pilot in training, with their 250 hours of flight time! I personally know of one that started a 747-400 on a 180 by entering the wrong waypoint in the FMS..it happens. Captain was very cool, just leaned up and whacked heading select, and said: "now, this is why we check the lat/long before pushing EXC, OK?"
You arent going to make a plane fall out of the sky by pushing the wrong APFDS button in cruise. It is pretty irresponsible, by super dangerous? I think not.
 
Doona
Posts: 3382
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 9:43 am

RE: The Steward Is Flying The Plane...

Sat Apr 02, 2005 7:14 pm

If the guy has a pilot's licence, then I don't think it's that dangerous to input new numbers into the autopilot. It's the ATC I'm a little worried about...

Cheers
mats
Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
 
TedTAce
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RE: The Steward Is Flying The Plane...

Sat Apr 02, 2005 10:08 pm

My Understanding is that if the Flight crew is CFI/MEII certed/current, and the person manipulating the a/p controls has a valid first class medical and PPL, the only thing stopping this from occuring would be company policy.
This space intentionally left blank
 
nudelhirsch
Posts: 1371
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2003 6:20 am

RE: The Steward Is Flying The Plane...

Sat Apr 02, 2005 10:32 pm

Lawyers would just LOVE to see more FAs fly planes... and crash, for whatever reason...
Putana da Seatbeltz!
 
Orion737
Posts: 3044
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2005 10:14 pm

RE: The Steward Is Flying The Plane...

Sat Apr 02, 2005 10:43 pm

Stewards and stewardesses should stick to their job, serving coffee and touching up their make-up and let the flightdeck crew handle the flying!
 
nwaca
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 9:39 am

RE: The Steward Is Flying The Plane...

Sun Apr 03, 2005 1:19 am

I am surprised to hear that EV would allow the cockpit door to remain wide open for great views during the flight. I thought the FA's were to go in--then lock the cockpit door and only open it when the pilot came back. To leave the door open during any part of the flight kind of defeats the purpose of installing all those locks on the door after 911.

As for the FA's playing pilot on a commercial jet--glad to hear that they may hold a private license on a Cessna or whatever, but until they are certified on that specific airplane, they shouldn't be touching any of the aircraft controls, no matter how tempting it may be.
 
ACDC8
Posts: 7175
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:56 pm

RE: The Steward Is Flying The Plane...

Sun Apr 03, 2005 1:24 am

When I was 11 years old, I got to visit the cockpit off an L1011 (I choose not to mention the airline's name), I sat in the right seat and the captain let me adjust the heading with the knob on the pedestal.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
avek00
Posts: 3155
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 5:56 am

RE: The Steward Is Flying The Plane...

Sun Apr 03, 2005 1:43 am

"Lawyers would just LOVE to see more FAs fly planes... and crash, for whatever reason..."

As a law student myself, I'd *LOVE* to see such a thing - more money/business for me once I graduate... Smile
Live life to the fullest.
 
Doona
Posts: 3382
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 9:43 am

RE: The Steward Is Flying The Plane...

Sun Apr 03, 2005 1:48 am

Nwaca: All airlines did not change their doors after the tragic events of 9/11, at least not in Europe. Especially not a cheap-ass swedish charter airline. I've even been on several flights where the cocpit door has been open during flight in the last couple of years. The laws haven't changed everywhere.

Cheers
Mats
Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
 
AeroVodochody
Posts: 525
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 3:24 am

RE: The Steward Is Flying The Plane...

Sun Apr 03, 2005 10:20 am

I think having an FA with a PPL is better than having an empty seat.
Try not to be jealous, we can't all be Czech.
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13916
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: The Steward Is Flying The Plane...

Sun Apr 03, 2005 10:52 am

A former American collegue of mine logged several hours stick time on DC-8 cargo planes during cruise. He was a flying mechanic certified on this plane and knew it inside out. A pilot was sitting in the other seat.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi

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