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The Steward Is Flying The Plane...
Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 9:41 pm
by Bofredrik
I have a friend that works as a steward for a Swedish charter airline. He also know how to fly a Cessna... He told me that he sometimes go in to the cockpit and is allowed to sit in the right seat and actually do some real flying under supervision from the captain... The co-pilot is then on the toilet or reading a newspaper (maybe both...) This seems to be quite strange but i am sure that he is not joking with me.
Ps. It is April 1 tomorrow, not today. Ds.
RE: The Steward Is Flying The Plane...
Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 10:17 pm
by ACDC8
I would think that they would be flying on autopilot anyways, so your friend probably just sits there and keeps the f/o's seat warm when he's taking a poop!
cheers
Patrick
RE: The Steward Is Flying The Plane...
Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 10:23 pm
by antiuser
Actually, that's the day after tomorrow... March had 31 days last time I checked, hehe
:D
RE: The Steward Is Flying The Plane...
Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 3:26 am
by Bofredrik
He is doing heading changes, altitude changes, talking to ATC etc so it is not just sitting in the seat...
RE: The Steward Is Flying The Plane...
Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 5:14 am
by Flighttime
Well if this is true, and I don't believe it is, the idiot captain who allows this lunacy to happen can expect to make a court appearance if found out.But believe me, cabin crew are very good at exagerating/fabricating the truth!
RE: The Steward Is Flying The Plane...
Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 5:36 am
by jonty
I've seen mention of this on
TV where a co-pilot let a F/A fly for a bit while the pilot was on the loo, but he came back and caught them and went mental!!!
RE: The Steward Is Flying The Plane...
Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 6:57 am
by Sean-SAN-
When one of the pilots need to goto the lav, and drop anchor for a while, I don't think it's uncommon to have the
FA waiting in the cockpit take a seat. I don't see what's the big deal letting him turn a few knobs.
RE: The Steward Is Flying The Plane...
Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 7:00 am
by Lairyliam
Quoting Sean-SAN- (Reply 6): I don't see what's the big deal letting him turn a few knobs |
until they hit the wrong button..... Then its to late...
"Lairy"liam
RE: The Steward Is Flying The Plane...
Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 7:03 am
by DLKAPA
What is the law assuming the Captain is CFI certified? (And assuming this is America, shouldn't he be?). Does the plane have to be empty or is it legal, albeit not part of SOP, for this to happen?
Also, the F/a going into the cockpit while one of the pilots empties the lav truck, so to speak, is not uncommon, and actually done as a security procedure. This allows someone to lock the cockpit door behind the F/O and still have someone flying the plane at the same time.
RE: The Steward Is Flying The Plane...
Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 7:03 am
by ACDC8
Quoting Lairyliam (Reply 7): Quoting Sean-SAN- (Reply 6):
I don't see what's the big deal letting him turn a few knobs
until they hit the wrong button..... Then its to late... |
Which button is that? The F/A call button....
(sorry, I couldn't resist)
cheers
Patrick
RE: The Steward Is Flying The Plane...
Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 7:14 pm
by Lairyliam
Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 9): Which button is that? The F/A call button.... |
hahaha....
RE: The Steward Is Flying The Plane...
Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 7:27 pm
by ejmmsu
Last summer I was flying
RDU-
DFW on a Delta Connection flight operated by
EV. (this was before
DL pulled out of
DFW). I sat in the front row, and talked to the extremely nice male flight attended for a little while about life as a flight attendent, how he got interested in the job, about his family back in Dallas, etc. About halfway through the flight, either the captain or co-pilot came out of the cockpit and and spoke a few words to the F.A. The co-pilot then walked back to the lavoratory, and the F.A. quickly walked into the cabin and sat down without shutting the cockpit door.
When the pilot returned from the lav, the F.A. came back out like nothing was out of the ordinary. He then told me that the most amazing views come from the front. It seemed to me that the whole flight crew was very close-knit, and it was a common occurence for the F.A. to sit in the cockpit when vacant. I don't think this was as much to fly the plane as it was to simply enjoy the view.
RE: The Steward Is Flying The Plane...
Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:22 pm
by iakobos
I have personally seen this done a few times while I was myself in the cockpit.
The company was a charter, there were no pax onboard, the "temporary" right seat pilot(s) was in an advanced stage of his CPL.
I recall seeing two operations officers, one dispatcher and one f/a doing this.
None of the "critical" phases of flights were involved, but cruise and descent.
RE: The Steward Is Flying The Plane...
Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:24 pm
by bearcuban12
I know a loadmaster that regularly does 10 min stints at the controls so the captain can have a break.
I have flown a B707f when the captain went for a cigarette (no smoking on flight deck) and also a
AN-12 over the Sahara whilst the captain went to the toilet.
But all above examples are on cargo flights with less than reputable operators. I think pax flights are extremely different.
RE: The Steward Is Flying The Plane...
Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 2:11 pm
by NWOrientDC10
I do not see a problem with a pilot allowing a steward to occupy a flight deck seat. This is a common sense issue; pilots are competent and would not allow some oaf who would just start pushing buttons and turning knobs (duh, what's this?) to sit at the controls.
Take Care,
Russell
RE: The Steward Is Flying The Plane...
Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 2:46 pm
by UAalltheway
I'd like to see what the airline would do if they found out about this.
RE: The Steward Is Flying The Plane...
Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 3:44 pm
by kellmark
These days, after 9/11, under US rules, another crew member is required to be in the cockpit whenever one of the flight crew leaves it to use the restroom. That is for security reasons. There always has to be 2 people in the cockpit. So a flight attendant would be tasked to go into the cockpit while this is going on. I have seen it a number of times.
RE: The Steward Is Flying The Plane...
Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 3:49 pm
by Foxy
If the aircraft is in autopilot, i don't see the harm in letting the F/A temporarily occupying the right hand seat twiddle a few knobs to execute heading and altitude changes.
RE: The Steward Is Flying The Plane...
Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 4:43 pm
by jetboyflyhi
It's Flight Attendant not Steward... I am a Flight Attendant and I have my Private Pilot License. Get over it .
RE: The Steward Is Flying The Plane...
Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 4:56 pm
by QANTASforever
Yeah it does happen - even on more reputable carriers (please read username).
My dad was a
FA for Qantas for well over 30 years and he took the controls of an aircraft under supervision more than once or twice.
A somewhat related story:
One night in Athens a whole bunch of the cabin crew went out and got completely blind drunk. They turn up the next morning sick as dogs and spent most of the flight lying across a few seats in economy (it was a ferry flight, so no
PR damage done). A friend of my dad's was allowed to take the controls of the aircraft (b742) and did a few small turns from side to side - the pilot also made things nice and bumpy for everyone on board. Needless to say - the sickbags got a good workout.
QFF
RE: The Steward Is Flying The Plane...
Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 6:14 pm
by wing
I have seen some captains showing the brand new
FA's how to turn the airplane in flight with HDG SEL knob but I wouldnt refer to it as "taking the controls".
In my previous company we had male and female flight attendants who actually were holding different degrees of pilot licences,I personally have offered some of them, hands on training of FMC loading,or SID set up or walkaround the airplane(all on the ground) but occupying the pilots seat in flight is a different story which personally I find it not acceptable.
A few years ago I had a TCAS
RA incident while in cruise over Hungary Austria border.The
MD 80(or one of the variants) flying at
FL 370 with a call sigh indicating that its a Ferry flight(I dont want to say the name of the company and the flight number here) suddenly vacated the
FL with an awkward descent (definetely not a pilot maneuver) causing a
RA to be triggered,we descended and they recovered back up,but we clearly saw the company name and the aircraft type on the fuselage.After the incident from the developing sequence of it and regarding the fact that it was a ferry flight,we thought it may be someone(a non pilot) was manupulating the controls and caused this to happen.Ofcourse we dont have any proof of anykind that a nonpilot was on the controls of the other airplane but it looked like it.
So it is possible that a
FA or a non pilot can accidently touch something that he/she doesnt supposed to touch therefore it is very dangerous to allow anybody on the pilot seat in flight.
RE: The Steward Is Flying The Plane...
Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 6:42 pm
by KLMyank
until they hit the wrong button...
LOL! Maybe you have never seen a new, green second officer/cruise relief pilot in training, with their 250 hours of flight time! I personally know of one that started a 747-400 on a 180 by entering the wrong waypoint in the FMS..it happens. Captain was very cool, just leaned up and whacked heading select, and said: "now, this is why we check the lat/long before pushing EXC,
OK?"
You arent going to make a plane fall out of the sky by pushing the wrong APFDS button in cruise. It is pretty irresponsible, by super dangerous? I think not.
RE: The Steward Is Flying The Plane...
Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 7:14 pm
by Doona
If the guy has a pilot's licence, then I don't think it's that dangerous to input new numbers into the autopilot. It's the ATC I'm a little worried about...
Cheers
mats
RE: The Steward Is Flying The Plane...
Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 10:08 pm
by TedTAce
My Understanding is that if the Flight crew is CFI/ME
II certed/current, and the person manipulating the a/p controls has a valid first class medical and PPL, the only thing stopping this from occuring would be company policy.
RE: The Steward Is Flying The Plane...
Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 10:32 pm
by nudelhirsch
Lawyers would just LOVE to see more FAs fly planes... and crash, for whatever reason...
RE: The Steward Is Flying The Plane...
Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 10:43 pm
by Orion737
Stewards and stewardesses should stick to their job, serving coffee and touching up their make-up and let the flightdeck crew handle the flying!
RE: The Steward Is Flying The Plane...
Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 1:19 am
by nwaca
I am surprised to hear that
EV would allow the cockpit door to remain wide open for great views during the flight. I thought the
FA's were to go in--then lock the cockpit door and only open it when the pilot came back. To leave the door open during any part of the flight kind of defeats the purpose of installing all those locks on the door after 911.
As for the
FA's playing pilot on a commercial jet--glad to hear that they may hold a private license on a Cessna or whatever, but until they are certified on that specific airplane, they shouldn't be touching any of the aircraft controls, no matter how tempting it may be.
RE: The Steward Is Flying The Plane...
Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 1:24 am
by ACDC8
When I was 11 years old, I got to visit the cockpit off an L1011 (I choose not to mention the airline's name), I sat in the right seat and the captain let me adjust the heading with the knob on the pedestal.
RE: The Steward Is Flying The Plane...
Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 1:43 am
by avek00
"Lawyers would just LOVE to see more FAs fly planes... and crash, for whatever reason..."
As a law student myself, I'd *LOVE* to see such a thing - more money/business for me once I graduate...
RE: The Steward Is Flying The Plane...
Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 1:48 am
by Doona
Nwaca: All airlines did not change their doors after the tragic events of 9/11, at least not in Europe. Especially not a cheap-ass swedish charter airline. I've even been on several flights where the cocpit door has been open during flight in the last couple of years. The laws haven't changed everywhere.
Cheers
Mats
RE: The Steward Is Flying The Plane...
Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 10:20 am
by AeroVodochody
I think having an
FA with a PPL is better than having an empty seat.
RE: The Steward Is Flying The Plane...
Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 10:52 am
by MD11Engineer
A former American collegue of mine logged several hours stick time on DC-8 cargo planes during cruise. He was a flying mechanic certified on this plane and knew it inside out. A pilot was sitting in the other seat.
Jan