keesje
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Washington State Submits Proposal To Airbus Owner

Thu Mar 31, 2005 12:58 am


The state wants EADS to consider potential factory sites in Spokane, Moses Lake and Everett. Boeing builds its widebody 747, 767 and 777 at its Everett plant in Snohomish County.

"Washington is the right place for EADS to invest in its North American future," Gov. Christine Gregoire said in a letter that accompanied the formal proposal. "This proposal includes information on three innovative communities that are primed with competitive development capacity: Grant, Snohomish and Spokane counties."


http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/218030_airbus05.html

All flagwaving and hidden nationalistic feeling aside, it makes sense.

Aircraft manufacturing has become more international then ever before. Where to find:
- the best specialists,
- specialized suppliers and
- R&D & educational institutions looking for more in dependency ?

Right. In your biggest competitors backyard.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Boeing setting up some engineering offices at strategic locations in Europe, inviting the smart guys were they live. The electronic highways / connections are there to support it..
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
keesje
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RE: Washington State Submits Proposal To Airbus Owner

Thu Mar 31, 2005 1:05 am



 box  Patty Murray vs Christine Gregoire & the fight is on...  box 
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
leelaw
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RE: Washington State Submits Proposal To Airbus Owner

Thu Mar 31, 2005 1:08 am

Quoting Keesje (Reply 1):
Patty Murray vs Christine Gregoire & the fight is on... box

...?
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
keesje
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RE: Washington State Submits Proposal To Airbus Owner

Thu Mar 31, 2005 1:17 am

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 2):
Quoting Keesje (Reply 1):
Patty Murray vs Christine Gregoire & the fight is on... box

...?

http://murray.senate.gov/aerospace/
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
Tod
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RE: Washington State Submits Proposal To Airbus Owner

Thu Mar 31, 2005 1:18 am

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 2):
Quoting Keesje (Reply 1):
Patty Murray vs Christine Gregoire & the fight is on... box


...?

The Governor (a crook) vs the Senator (a moron).
 
MD80Nut
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RE: Washington State Submits Proposal To Airbus Owner

Thu Mar 31, 2005 1:38 am

Patty Murray is a moron. Airbus is trying to convince people it's an American company? What an idiot! I guess you elect what you deserve...

Washington state would be a great place for an Airbus plant. I'm sure there's no shortage of aerospace workers there who would love working for them. If Boeing isn't going to hire them, why not Airbus? The infrastructure for manufacturing is there. I'm all for Airbus opening a plant in the US and giving displaced American aerospace workers jobs. Making planes these days is a multinational thing anyway, so why not build some 'Buses here?

Cheers, Ralph
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Tod
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RE: Washington State Submits Proposal To Airbus Owner

Thu Mar 31, 2005 1:50 am

Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):
Aircraft manufacturing has become more international then ever before. Where to find:
- the best specialists,
- specialized suppliers

Bellingham?  rotfl 

happy trails,
Tod
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airbazar
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RE: Washington State Submits Proposal To Airbus Owner

Thu Mar 31, 2005 2:42 am

Quoting MD80Nut (Reply 5):
Patty Murray is a moron. Airbus is trying to convince people it's an American company? What an idiot! I guess you elect what you deserve...

Of course the irony is that it's not Airbus but rather, EADS. In any case, they can be just as American as Boeing is, or are you forgetting that 70% of the 787 is not made in America? All they need to be just like Boeing is a plant and a stock listing. And that's how it's going to be from now on. American, non-America, it's an irrelevant discussion.
 
KFLLCFII
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RE: Washington State Submits Proposal To Airbus Owner

Thu Mar 31, 2005 2:58 am

I'm wondering what the French think of this proposal??
"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
 
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bully707
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RE: Washington State Submits Proposal To Airbus Ow

Thu Mar 31, 2005 3:24 am

Message was not really topic related.
Therefor it was deleted by: Bully

Bully

[Edited 2005-03-30 19:34:16]
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DAYflyer
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RE: Washington State Submits Proposal To Airbus Owner

Thu Mar 31, 2005 3:27 am

Quoting KFLLCFII (Reply 8):
I'm wondering what the French think of this proposal??

Undoubtedly the tanker contract potential with USAF and the future growth of US Airlines.
One Nation Under God
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Washington State Submits Proposal To Airbus Owner

Thu Mar 31, 2005 3:29 am

Is Gregoire really the Governor of Washington State? There is some dispute over the dead people how cast their votes for her were eligible to vote in the last election.

I believe the last recount was won by her by some 150 votes, or so.
 
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jetjack74
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RE: Washington State Submits Proposal To Airbus Owner

Thu Mar 31, 2005 4:24 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 11):
Is Gregoire really the Governor of Washington State?

Dino Rossi wins the initial count, then wins the recount, and he was still denied the election. Gregiore wins the 2nd recount after over 1000 "lost ballots" suddenly appear out of nowhere and the state secretary rushes to certify her. Then it turns out that about 900 of those ballots are from dead people, convicted felons, and fictitious names. And yet, servicemenbers serving overseas recieved their ballots before they could return them to get their vote.
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danpio
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RE: Washington State Submits Proposal To Airbus Owner

Thu Mar 31, 2005 4:43 am

This is old news. I recieved the Airbus RFP presentation on the Tanker project in early January. The entire presentation talks about how 'American' they are. I have personally put together proposals to Airbus for several states like North Carolina, Alabama, Georgia, Virginia, etc...

Most states will be submitting proposals to Airbus/EADS/Airbus North America to try and win this project. (But this will only happen if they win the USAF tanker bid).

This goes on with every large project, including the 7E7 plant location bid in 2003. Most states submitted a proposal then, too. Steel mills, auto plants, chemical plants, grain mills, distribution facilities. They are all treated the same: jobs, tax revenue, jobs and tax revenue. The states don't care Airbus is European, they only care how many jobs they bring in and how much they can charge in taxes.
I'd kill everyone in this room for one drop of sweet, sweet beer.- Homer J. Simpson
 
danpio
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RE: Washington State Submits Proposal To Airbus Owner

Thu Mar 31, 2005 4:50 am

Quoting KFLLCFII (Reply 8):
I'm wondering what the French think of this proposal??

Doesn't matter. If Airbus wins the USAF tanker bid, then they are required to have their final assembly plant somewhere in the US. It is a stipulation of the USAF bid. That's why the states are coming out with their proposals to Airbus asking them to build an assembly plant in their state.
I'd kill everyone in this room for one drop of sweet, sweet beer.- Homer J. Simpson
 
bhill
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RE: Washington State Submits Proposal To Airbus Owner

Thu Mar 31, 2005 5:44 am

Screw Boeing..since they decided to move the Corporate HQ to Chicago after being wined and dined by us tax payers....As for the 787 factory, the actual employment numbers are still up in the air. Competition is good, keeps the Companies on their toes...

Cheers
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707lvr
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RE: Washington State Submits Proposal To Airbus Owner

Thu Mar 31, 2005 6:15 am

Airbus/EADS in Washington State, now that a good one. What, to get a subsidy in the form of a reduction of a tax they don't have to pay anywhere now?
 
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LN-MOW
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RE: Washington State Submits Proposal To Airbus Owner

Thu Mar 31, 2005 6:27 am

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 12):
Dino Rossi wins the initial count, then wins the recount, and he was still denied the election.

That's American democracy for you!  praise 

Gregoire may perhaps not be the perfect choice, but Rossi is a religious nut and there's enough of those around.
- I am LN-MOW, and I approve this message.
 
acidradio
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RE: Washington State Submits Proposal To Airbus Ow

Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:04 am

They might as well do what they have to do in order to attract business, especially in an industry that the state is known for. Also, there is the potential for growth of subsidiary suppliers.

One example is Alabama. Back in the 90's, Daimler-Benz was searching for a site to manufacture the ML-series SUV's. Alabama basically built the plant for them, gave them the land and provided other assistance. While it looks extreme, it is a a great showpiece when you can say that your state has the first Mercedes-Benz factory outside of Germany. By building that, several of Mercedes-Benz's parts suppliers set up shop in Alabama as well, creating jobs and tax base that way, which eventually offsets the costs of building the Mercedes plant in the first place. Mercedes' success in Alabama has resulted in both Honda's recent construction of a vehicle assembly plant there and Hyundai's first factory in the US.

While these are two different industries, there are some examples that could be related here. Does Washington want to be just the "Boeing" state or be a worldwide center known for its excellence in aerospace?
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keesje
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RE: Washington State Submits Proposal To Airbus Owner

Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:13 am

But we're on the wrong coast. According to Jenkins, EADS will ship A330s components across the Atlantic, so it will certainly pick an East Coast or Gulf Coast site.

Jenkins said the early front-runners appear to be Mobile, Ala.; New Orleans; and Panama City, Fla.


http://www.heraldnet.com/stories/05/03/30/100bus_corliss001.cfm
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
Ruscoe
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RE: Washington State Submits Proposal To Airbus Owner

Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:14 am

Biggest problem will be the Europeans. They will see this as shifting jobs to the USA.
Further if the $US stays down, Airbus might be tempted to build all their aircraft in the USA.

Love to see the reaction to a proposal like that.

Ruscoe
 
Marcus
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RE: Washington State Submits Proposal To Airbus Owner

Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:16 am

Doesn't Airbus already operate a design center in Kansas?...........that is where the 737 fuselage right?
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acidradio
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RE: Washington State Submits Proposal To Airbus Owner

Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:34 am

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 20):
Biggest problem will be the Europeans. They will see this as shifting jobs to the USA.

Well that's the price you pay in a global marketplace, especially in an industry like aviation which is so worldwide. Plenty of US jobs have gone elsewhere. I wonder what percentage of the various Boeing products consists of non-US made parts. If Airbus is the "private corporation" everyone says it is, cost of manufacture should take precedence over where it is manufactured.

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 20):
Further if the $US stays down, Airbus might be tempted to build all their aircraft in the USA.

Love to see the reaction to a proposal like that.

Hey, the US gets its turn to be affordable for once. How long that will last is unknown, but who knows. If I'm not mistaken, Boeing considered locations outside the US for the 787 assembly line. Of all places, they chose... Washington! I would not blame Airbus for deciding against an assembly plant outside of Europe simply for the associated logistics problems of trying to manage a large project far far away from Toulouse.
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jetjack74
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RE: Washington State Submits Proposal To Airbus Owner

Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:13 am

Quoting LN-MOW (Reply 17):
Gregoire may perhaps not be the perfect choice, but Rossi is a religious nut and there's enough of those around

Because he practices catholism, he's now a religious nut. At least he's not a plastic liar like Gregiore.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/180848_settled.html
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atmx2000
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RE: Washington State Submits Proposal To Airbus Owner

Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:51 am

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 7):
Of course the irony is that it's not Airbus but rather, EADS. In any case, they can be just as American as Boeing is, or are you forgetting that 70% of the 787 is not made in America?

Funny, Boeing says the 787 will be 75% US content. I don't know if that is with GE engines or some average of GE and RR.
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DfwRevolution
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RE: Washington State Submits Proposal To Airbus Owner

Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:59 am

Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):
Right. In your biggest competitors backyard.

I hardly think this is a one-way street...

Boeing used CATA/CATIA software suites for the 777, 737NG, and now 787 produced by Dassault. Located in good ole' TLS

Quoting Marcus (Reply 21):
Doesn't Airbus already operate a design center in Kansas?...........that is where the 737 fuselage right?

Boeing builds the 737 fuselage in Witchita. I believe Airbus has a aerodyanmic faciliity in Witchita as well.

Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):
I wouldn't be surprised to see Boeing setting up some engineering offices at strategic locations in Europe, inviting the smart guys were they live. The electronic highways / connections are there to support it..

FYI- They are way ahead of you.

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 7):
Of course the irony is that it's not Airbus but rather, EADS. In any case, they can be just as American as Boeing is, or are you forgetting that 70% of the 787 is not made in America?

Lot more than 70% buddy. Boeing is building 30% and Vought-Alenia (Texas-Italian firm) is contributing major sections of the fuselage.
 
frontiers4ever
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RE: Washington State Submits Proposal To Airbus Ow

Thu Mar 31, 2005 2:59 pm

I didnt vote for either, and never will. Rossi was the two time winner but that aside. I have no problem with Gregoire, its King County. Anyways Murrays just pissed off at the world because she is short. Also Practicing a religion and being a nut are two different things. Remember in Communism there is no religion.

-Frontiers4ever
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gothamspotter
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RE: Washington State Submits Proposal To Airbus Owner

Thu Mar 31, 2005 4:17 pm

If Airbus wants to build a plant in the US, that's fine with me. But isn't Germany's unemployment rate something obscene like 15% now? How would the German politicians who approve Airbus's subsidies be able to justify their actions to their unemployed constituents?
 
keesje
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RE: Washington State Submits Proposal To Airbus Owner

Thu Mar 31, 2005 6:20 pm

I don't think there exists a "Buy European" or Tax payer / Job export sentiment among Europeans at this moment.

I don't say it should be like that, I just don't see it..
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
ComeAndGo
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RE: Washington State Submits Proposal To Airbus Owner

Thu Mar 31, 2005 6:21 pm

Quoting GothamSpotter (Reply 27):
How would the German politicians who approve Airbus's subsidies be able to justify their actions to their unemployed constituents?

They pay them. Why do you think Germany is bankrupt? Why do you think everyone wants to live in Germany? If you don't work, they pay you. If you want an education, you enrole in a University and the government will pay your education, the books you need for your education and they will also give you a monthly allowance to pay for your rent and living expenses. And that's if you're a foreigner. If you're German, you have to cover your own living expenses. That's called social responsibility.

There you go. Move Airbus to the states and pay the ex-Airbus employees Money.
 
danpio
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RE: Washington State Submits Proposal To Airbus Owner

Thu Mar 31, 2005 10:45 pm

Once again people, listen up:

It doesn't mean squat what the French or German population think about Airbus locating a plant inside the US.

THEY HAVE TO IF THEY WIN THE TANKER BID! THEY HAVE NO CHOICE!

Acidradio has it right about the auto plants; it's a good comparison. Don't forget about BMW in South Carolina, Honda in Ohio (where my car is from!), Toyota in Kentucky and Texas, Mazda in Mississippi, Mitsubishi in Illinois, among others. Don't forget that a fair percentage of 'American' cars are built in Canada.

Right now there are other European companies looking to build in the US: Volkswagen, Volvo some large French steel company come to mind.
I'd kill everyone in this room for one drop of sweet, sweet beer.- Homer J. Simpson
 
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RayChuang
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RE: Washington State Submits Proposal To Airbus Owner

Fri Apr 01, 2005 1:34 am

I think if Airbus does win the revised tanker bid they will likely build the plane at one place that could do it: the former Lockheed Tristar production line at Palmdale Airport in Palmdale, CA. Most of the facilities are still in place, and the assembly buildings can easily accommodate something as big as the A330-200.