COfaninBOS
Topic Author
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CO To Cali

Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:24 am

Has a date been announced for service on CO from IAH to CLO?

I ask this because I was flying today from BOS to IAH and noticed that the new April magazine in the seat back pocket had that route in red (meaning it will start soon). I was unaware that a date had been announced. Anyone in the know?
 
RCS763AV
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RE: CO To Cali

Thu Mar 31, 2005 12:13 pm

Yes its pending approval from Aerocivil and FAA....
 
102IAHexpress
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RE: CO To Cali

Tue Apr 12, 2005 2:18 pm

Seems like CO is going to delay their Cali service until August 15. CO states the reason for the delay, is due to the lack of a jet bridge for their B737.

http://dms.dot.gov/search/document.c...m?documentid=324422&docketid=20150
 
TACAA320
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RE: CO To Cali

Tue Apr 12, 2005 2:23 pm

The previous link says "United States/Columbia". Do they really know the difference between Columbia and Colombia? And please don't tell it was an errata.

[Edited 2005-04-12 07:24:47]
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
DeltaMIA
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RE: CO To Cali

Tue Apr 12, 2005 2:30 pm

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 2):
CO states the reason for the delay, is due to the lack of a jet bridge for their B737

That is a poor excuse. How can they cite that when they already fly their 737's to international stations without jetbridges (i.e. GCM).
It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
 
102IAHexpress
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RE: CO To Cali

Tue Apr 12, 2005 2:32 pm

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 3):
The previous link says "United States/Columbia". Do they really know the difference between Columbia and Colombia? And please don't tell it was an errata.

Good observation. In the actual application written by CO “Colombia” is used, so I think CO knows the difference between Colombia and Columbia. But as far as the DOT that’s a different matter. You would think the DOT would know the difference because they are headquartered in the District of Columbia.
 
Summa767
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RE: CO To Cali

Tue Apr 12, 2005 6:47 pm

At least we know that the permission has been granted. The excuse for the delayed start is certainly a lousy one.
Is the jetbridge required for a 737 different from the one for a 757? AA flies there daily without much problem. Or is different for one for an MD83. AV has these type there all the time without problem.
More to the point. Continental owned Copa flies its 737s to Cali daily, and does not seem to have a problem.
 
RCS763AV
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RE: CO To Cali

Tue Apr 12, 2005 7:42 pm

Actually, CLO has jetbridges hat can fit an Avianca 767, what a lame excuse.....
 
swacle
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RE: CO To Cali

Tue Apr 12, 2005 11:36 pm

Could they mean that they can't get gate space or ticketing space, not just a jet bridge, figuring that the average traveler may be able to understand the no jetrbridge arguement better?

DC
Aircraft Flown: SF3 DH8 DH4 328 ERJ CRJ CR7 CR9 E70 E75 D9S M80 712 72S 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 739ER 752 318 319 32
 
Summa767
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RE: CO To Cali

Wed Apr 13, 2005 1:11 am

SWACLE, their reason for delayed the start of operation to Cali is given, not in a press release to customers, but in an application for deferral to the US Department of Transportation.
It is written by lawyers, and in my mind, they wanted to give an excuse that put the delayed start of operations as something not being their fault.
You can tell that CO is afraid that they will revoke the rights given to them, as DOT only guaranteed the route rights if CO starts it by June 23rd 2005. If another US airline applies for those frequencies (on any other route) they could risk losing them. I wonder if the reason might not be aircraft allocations?
I am sure that only 10 week deferral is not a problem though.
 
a300aa
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RE: CO To Cali

Wed Apr 13, 2005 5:40 am

Lack of space in CLO? No way, that's only an excuse.
Anticipating that AA will begin its second frequency to CLO 4 times a week on a 757, beginning June 9.
There are enough jetbridges to handle 4 Intl airlines out of CLO.
By the way does anybody knows why AV again is operating its flight from CLO to MIA with a stop in BAQ?
And why they downgrade its MDE flight to a MD83?
I thought it was for low season , but loads are growing from those two cities very fast, AA is always full.

Thanks in advance
 
MAH4546
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RE: CO To Cali

Wed Apr 13, 2005 5:45 am

Quoting A300AA (Reply 10):

By the way does anybody knows why AV again is operating its flight from CLO to MIA with a stop in BAQ?
And why they downgrade its MDE flight to a MD83?
I thought it was for low season , but loads are growing from those two cities very fast, AA is always full.

Aircraft shortage.
a.
 
TACAA320
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RE: CO To Cali

Wed Apr 13, 2005 6:02 am

Quoting A300AA (Reply 10):
Lack of space in CLO? No way, that's only an excuse.

Lack of space no. Lack of aircrafts.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
RCS763AV
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RE: CO To Cali

Wed Apr 13, 2005 6:47 am

Quoting A300AA (Reply 10):
Lack of space in CLO? No way, that's only an excuse.
Anticipating that AA will begin its second frequency to CLO 4 times a week on a 757, beginning June 9.
There are enough jetbridges to handle 4 Intl airlines out of CLO.
By the way does anybody knows why AV again is operating its flight from CLO to MIA with a stop in BAQ?
And why they downgrade its MDE flight to a MD83?
I thought it was for low season , but loads are growing from those two cities very fast, AA is always full.

There is a 757 in the paintshop and another 757 is doing operations from BOG in flights with loads bigger than what the MD-83 can carry, but AV will add 2 MDs and a 757 this year, so dont worry about aircraft shortages.
 
Southamerica
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RE: CO To Cali

Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:02 am

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 7):
Actually, CLO has jetbridges hat can fit an Avianca 767, what a lame excuse.....

Exactly.

CLO and MDE had handled AV 767 for years, until very recently when all international operations from both cities got dowgraded to 757.

CLO will see a two-weekly 767 from June anyways...

Quoting A300AA (Reply 10):
By the way does anybody knows why AV again is operating its flight from CLO to MIA with a stop in BAQ?
And why they downgrade its MDE flight to a MD83?

Reminding old times... AV's CLO and MDE services to MIA where not usually nonstop; almost always via BAQ and CTG respectively.

The MDE-MIA route sees no change in schedules, only in equipment. CLO-MIA however, sees an unwanted one-hour stop in BAQ both ways, and a very late arrival to CLO.

Nevertheless, according to the airline's website, for the upcoming mid-year high-season the flights will go back to the normal schedule.



SOUTHAMERICA
 
2travel2know
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RE: CO To Cali

Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:17 am

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 6):
Continental owned Copa flies its 737s to Cali daily, and does not seem to have a problem

Continental only owns 49% of CM, does it mean CM is Continental owned? NO, I don't think so.
Why is this thing with CM? I'm sure if CO only owned 10% of CM people still will be reffering to CM as "Continental owned Copa".

Before CM decided to ally themseves with CO instead of AA, CO flew from IAH to both BAQ and CLO via SJO. The loadfactors for BAQ were horrendous and they quickly pulled-out of BAQ, it took them just a little bit longer to leave CLO.
Why CO to CLO and BAQ didn't worked out?
I guess because they were flying from IAH and not EWR, plus it seems they didn't have SJO > CLO, BAQ traffic rights.
I would think a EWR > CLO will do better than a IAH > CLO-
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
MGA
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RE: CO To Cali

Wed Apr 13, 2005 9:39 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 15):
Continental only owns 49% of CM, does it mean CM is Continental owned? NO, I don't think so.
Why is this thing with CM? I'm sure if CO only owned 10% of CM people still will be reffering to CM as "Continental owned Copa".

I think CM still calls some of its own shots but lets be realistick here... the CopaNENTAL planes are almost Identical to the CO planes... Same solors, all boeing, almost same logo.... come on, we have to admit that CM is CO's puppet... And trust me, I dont mean it in a bad way... I think CM is an excellent airline an CO's purchase of 49% was for the best.

Anyways.... Does CO codeshare with CM on the PTY-CLO route? I think that jetway excuse is bull... Havent they ever heard of stairs!!??  Wink

MGA
Que viva el guaro, el dinero y los aviones!!!
 
a300aa
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RE: CO To Cali

Wed Apr 13, 2005 9:51 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 15):
I would think a EWR > CLO will do better than a IAH > CLO-

I completly agree, most of the traffic goes to the east coast.
 
2travel2know
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RE: CO To Cali

Wed Apr 13, 2005 10:20 am

Quoting MGA (Reply 16):
I think CM still calls some of its own shots but lets be realistick here... the CopaNENTAL planes are almost Identical to the CO planes... Same solors, all boeing, almost same logo.... come on, we have to admit that CM is CO's puppet... And trust me, I dont mean it in a bad way... I think CM is an excellent airline an CO's purchase of 49% was for the best.

I'm a strong beliver that when COPA sold 49% of their shares to CO they wanted so bad to change that COmpañia Panameña de Aviación regional-airline image that they've had for decades to a new "continental-airline" - and I mean continental for the American Continent (The Americas) as oposite to regional (Centralamerica + Caribbean). But they just went too far with that logo! Sometimes you just can't tell the difference between a CO and a CM plane.
As how much of a CO puppet they're I really can't say, they refused to fly to EWR and choose JFK with lovely - being cynical here - daily 0100 arrivals and 0500 departures (one hour later summertime). If they were to fly to Houston they would then choose HOU if that airport had a US Federal Inspection Facility.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
MGA
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RE: CO To Cali

Wed Apr 13, 2005 10:39 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 18):
I'm a strong beliver that when COPA sold 49% of their shares to CO they wanted so bad to change that COmpañia Panameña de Aviación regional-airline image that they've had for decades to a new "continental-airline" - and I mean continental for the American Continent (The Americas) as oposite to regional (Centralamerica + Caribbean). But they just went too far with that logo! Sometimes you just can't tell the difference between a CO and a CM plane.

I agree. CM is Very strong now and has changed its image to a high class international airline.

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 18):
As how much of a CO puppet they're I really can't say, they refused to fly to EWR and choose JFK with lovely - being cynical here - daily 0100 arrivals and 0500 departures (one hour later summertime). If they were to fly to Houston they would then choose HOU if that airport had a US Federal Inspection Facility.

That did show balls... They chose JFK because of the latino population in Queens, harlem, brooklyn etc (at least I think) Maybe even CO knew that there was no O&D to EWR. About that Hobby comment, thats funny stuff!

MGA
Que viva el guaro, el dinero y los aviones!!!
 
2travel2know
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RE: CO To Cali

Wed Apr 13, 2005 10:48 am

Quoting MGA (Reply 19):
That did show balls... They chose JFK because of the latino population in Queens, harlem, brooklyn etc (at least I think) Maybe even CO knew that there was no O&D to EWR.

The largest panamanian community in the USA is in Brooklyn (be advised - most of them shouldn't be called latino but caribbean), add to that the colombians in Queens and ecuadorians in that area that preffer to depart before-the-crack-of-dawn to be able to travel daytime from GYE to Cuenca by road.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
102IAHexpress
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RE: CO To Cali

Wed Apr 13, 2005 11:34 am

COs delay into Cali is suspect. I hope it’s just a delay, and won’t go on hiatus like EWR-LOS. Personally I have always looked forward to a possible Houston to Cali non-stop flight. Cali is the city of my birth and Houston is my home.

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 15):
I would think a EWR > CLO will do better than a IAH > CLO-

As far as EWR to CLO doing better than IAH to CLO, I’m not sure that’s the case. IAH has done a good job of positioning itself as a Latin American gateway. It’s definitely an attractive alternative to MIA. With CLO to IAH service, customers have better access to the East and West Coast. Los Angeles in particular has a large Colombian population. Houston also has a Colombian presence.
In the short term, COs aircraft fleet is stretched pretty thin, so I doubt a EWR to CLO plan will happen anytime soon. In the long term, CO will have allocated more aircraft, so I don’t see why they wouldn’t add a EWR to CLO flight. But this is all speculation on my part.
 
2travel2know
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RE: CO To Cali

Wed Apr 13, 2005 11:43 am

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 21):
COs delay into Cali is suspect. I hope it’s just a delay, and won’t go on hiatus like EWR-LOS. Personally I have always looked forward to a possible Houston to Cali non-stop flight. Cali is the city of my birth and Houston is my home.

10 years ago when CO 1st flew to CLO sure there weren't that many colombians in IAH. They started the service and failed. Maybe the colombian demographics in the states have changed and now it's very attractive to fly between western/mid USA and Cali.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
Southamerica
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RE: CO To Cali

Wed Apr 13, 2005 11:53 am

Quoting MGA (Reply 16):
Does CO codeshare with CM on the PTY-CLO route?

No.




Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 15):
I would think a EWR > CLO will do better than a IAH > CLO-

EWR-CLO would be an interesting option, though I believe O&D would tend to use JFK instead, as CM's case in the New York area.

It is fair to remember that AV has been operating the CLO-JFK route [1-stop service] for a while now; case that would be worth considering if a second player in the same market wishes to enter.




SOUTHAMERICA
 
TACAA320
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RE: CO To Cali

Wed Apr 13, 2005 1:57 pm

Quoting MGA (Reply 16):
I think CM still calls some of its own shots but lets be realistick here... the CopaNENTAL planes are almost Identical to the CO planes... Same solors, all boeing, almost same logo.... come on, we have to admit that CM is CO's puppet... And trust me, I dont mean it in a bad way...

Absolutely true.

49% of the shareholders, with the other 51% disseminated in others hands, allows CO to do everything they want over CM. Even in the most basic Commerce Law class you learn that.

You can't hide the sun with one finger.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
2travel2know
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RE: CO To Cali

Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:16 am

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 24):
49% of the shareholders, with the other 51% disseminated in others hands, allows CO to do everything they want over CM. Even in the most basic Commerce Law class you learn that.

If you knew more about Panamanians and COPA, you would know that the 51% which you think is disseminated among other hands DO follow whatever is the will of the big main stockholder - a very savvy local business group.
Don't have the exact % of stocks in hands of small CM stockholders not related to that panamanian bussines group, but I really doubt if they would sell that stock to CO or others, that local group will loose CM control.
Is a fact, Continental doesn't run CM, please read post #19 again.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
COfaninBOS
Topic Author
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RE: CO To Cali

Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:22 am

I don't think you can compare a planned non-stop service on CO today with a one-stop via a Central American city several years ago.

For one thing, the demographics of Houston have changed. In the last decade, the local populations of Colombians and Venezuelans have swelled in the greater Houston area. Additionally, Continental has implemented a very successful "Latinization" program. Besides the rapid growth in Mexico service from IAH, Continental now flies to more Central American cities than any other U.S. based airline and is experiencing slow, steady growth in South America.

I am still waiting for IAH-Maracaibo service to be announced. With Citgo's move to Houston's Energy Corridor, this flight would seem a natural. Maybe 4 times a week on a 73G to start.
 
MGA
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RE: CO To Cali

Thu Apr 14, 2005 1:54 am

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 24):
You can't hide the sun with one finger.

Why dont you just say it!! You cant hide the CO logo on the CM planes with one finger!!!  Wink

MGA
Que viva el guaro, el dinero y los aviones!!!
 
TACAA320
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RE: CO To Cali

Thu Apr 14, 2005 3:21 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 25):
please read post #19 again

I did it. And then, what?

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 25):
Don't have the exact % of stocks in hands of small CM stockholders not related to that panamanian bussines group, but I really doubt if they would sell that stock to CO or others, that local group will loose CM control.

Just if you want it, lets us know those figures when you know them.
And I still believe that CO is the major single CM's stockholder.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
MAH4546
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RE: CO To Cali

Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:05 am

Quoting COfaninBOS (Reply 26):
In the last decade, the local populations of Colombians and Venezuelans have swelled in the greater Houston area.

It is still nothing significant.

Quoting COfaninBOS (Reply 26):
Continental now flies to more Central American cities than any other U.S. based airline and is experiencing slow, steady growth in South America.

More cities, but at about half the frequency of AA. This past winter timetable, AA had almost as many daily flights to Costa Rica than Continental did to all of Central America.

Quoting COfaninBOS (Reply 26):
I am still waiting for IAH-Maracaibo service to be announced. With Citgo's move to Houston's Energy Corridor, this flight would seem a natural. Maybe 4 times a week on a 73G to start.

That service does seem natural, and with Venzuela's very lax rules towards new entrants and route authorites, I am surprised they don't fly it.
a.
 
COfaninBOS
Topic Author
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RE: CO To Cali

Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:55 am

Viasa used to fly IAH-Maracaibo twice a week. First with AB3s and then 727s I believe. While the Venezuelan and Colombian communities can't hold a candle to South Florida's, both are growing rapidly, especially the rise of a Venezuelan middle class seeking refuge from Chaves. I know first hand as my partner is Venezuelan.

Also, nothing can touch AA's route network out of Miami but Continental's growth to the South out of IAH has been quite major. It's been a hard struggle to convince folks South of Mexico to use IAH as a point of transfer rather than Miami but it is slowly working. According to the Houston Airport System website, international traffic is up, especially South of the border.

IAH is the nation's largest airport with flights to Mexico, both in the number of destinations (30) and in number of weekly non-stops (948). LAX is second with 20 and 648.

In 2004, international passengers reached 6.4 million, a 13.7% increase year over year. The first 3 months of this year have seen an increase of 21.6% in international passengers from last year's record numbers.
 
MAH4546
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RE: CO To Cali

Thu Apr 14, 2005 5:05 am

Quoting COfaninBOS (Reply 30):
Also, nothing can touch AA's route network out of Miami but Continental's growth to the South out of IAH has been quite major. It's been a hard struggle to convince folks South of Mexico to use IAH as a point of transfer rather than Miami but it is slowly working. According to the Houston Airport System website, international traffic is up, especially South of the border.

I'm not debating the growth, it is definitley there. Though outside of Mexico, it is limited in the future. Continental's attempted forrays into non-traditional South American markets - Santa Cruz, Cali, Belo Horizonte, and even Santiago de Chile - have been unsuccessful.

I definitley see Houston-Maracaibo in the future. I do not think CO will be successful with Houston-Cali-Houston, and it won't be too long before it becomes Houston-Cali-Medellin-Houston, a route which will probably do just fine.
a.
 
2travel2know
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RE: CO To Cali

Thu Apr 14, 2005 5:25 am

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 28):
And I still believe that CO is the major single CM's stockholder.

Yes, that's a true. Still CO doesn't know the territory as well as the panamanian owners.
An interesting question, Why wasn't TA worth having its stock brought by AA, but CM's was worth for CO?
Panamanians like me don't like that CM sold that 49% to CO, I think it should have been less, maybe 35%; also we're frequently told by our neighbours that anything we do good is because of the USA so it's nothing new that COPA nowadays is being reffered as a gringo (US/american) airline since it has some stock owned by CO.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 29):
More cities, but at about half the frequency of AA. This past winter timetable, AA had almost as many daily flights to Costa Rica than Continental did to all of Central America.

With all do respect, with the tourist marketing Costa Rica does it's worth for AA to fly so many times there. SJO and now LIR are different markets compared to the other centralamerican cities.
What I've noticed about AA in Centralamerica is that they're usually very carefull not to harm their Centralamerica <> Miami virtual monopoly (TA flights have AA code share, yes?) adding AA flights from mainly DFW to Centralamerica and the Caribbean, it just takes them a lot longer to decide to fly southeast out of DFW.
Where are those DFW > BZE, RTB, SAP, SAL (by AA plane not by TA), MGA, PTY, MBJ, CCS, GYE, CLO, MDE; SJC > SAL, GUA, SJO; LAX > MBJ; JFK > CLO, BOG, MDE, SJO, GUA; SJU > SJO, PTY, LIM ? (sorry if some destinations already have that service).
In the case of DFW > PTY, the "must fly via MIA with AA" mentality and the fact that that PTY > DFW didn't make the DFW > NRT connection among other reasons kill that route.
Also now that US airways have to stop FLL > PTY > FLL I don't see AA filling that gap in F100 (!) or B737NG. Did AA stop FLL > CCS > FLL ?
In other words, in Latinamerica they're not as aggresive as CO.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
TACAA320
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RE: CO To Cali

Thu Apr 14, 2005 5:50 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 32):
Why wasn't TA worth having its stock brought by AA, but CM's was worth for CO?

Dude, your're confusing oranges and apples.

As long as I know, Taca is not selling shares to AA nor AA is buying some percentage of them at this time. So, whatever the reasons are, only both of them knows the answer.

About the part of your question regarding CM, I simply bounce it to you!

By the way, what's your point with such question?
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
RCS763AV
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RE: CO To Cali

Thu Apr 14, 2005 6:47 am

All I say is that its gonna be a tough job. AV and AA already offer flights to MIA and JFK, with a lot of capacity plus connecting opportunities in MDE, PTY and BOG. But maybe CO will form its niche.

BTW: To you all central americans, this is a thread about CO starting flights to Cali not about CM´s ownership, if you wanna discuss it form another thread.
 
2travel2know
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RE: CO To Cali

Thu Apr 14, 2005 7:33 am

Sorry things about CM ownership had to be discussed here.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 34):
All I say is that its gonna be a tough job. AV and AA already offer flights to MIA and JFK, with a lot of capacity plus connecting opportunities in MDE, PTY and BOG. But maybe CO will form its niche

DO people in CLO and surrounding cities like to connect in MDE, BOG or PTY? I don't think so. For what I know of the colombians for each big city: BOG, MDE, CLO, BAQ, BGA, CUC, CTG is that the're very regional, when travelling overseas they most likely dislike to change planes in BOG and that for many years the options for flying from colombian cities other than BOG to many US and Latinamerican destinations without flying thru BOG have been somewhat limited to what AV, CM, Braniff and Eastern then and now AA offered.
What may look good with CO in CLO with B737-700 may be look something like this:
IAH dp 1500 > ar 2100 CLO dp 2300 > ar 0500 EWR
EWR dp 2300 > ar 0500 CLO dp 0700> ar 1100 IAH
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24558
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: CO To Cali

Thu Apr 14, 2005 8:07 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 32):
What I've noticed about AA in Centralamerica is that they're usually very carefull not to harm their Centralamerica <> Miami virtual monopoly (TA flights have AA code share, yes?)

Taca and American are not allowed to codeshare on flights from Miami.

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 32):
adding AA flights from mainly DFW to Centralamerica and the Caribbean,



Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 32):
Where are those DFW > BZE, RTB, SAP, SAL (by AA plane not by TA), MGA, PTY, MBJ, CCS, GYE, CLO, MDE; SJC > SAL, GUA, SJO; LAX > MBJ; JFK > CLO, BOG, MDE, SJO, GUA; SJU > SJO, PTY, LIM ? (sorry if some destinations already have that service).

They fly DFW-BZE, DFW-CCS, and JFK-SJO. The rest of your suggestions are, for the most part, ridiculous (SJC-SAL? SJU-LIM? LAX-MBJ? Are you kidding me? AA is in business to make money!).

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 32):
In other words, in Latinamerica they're not as aggresive as CO.

Again, you must be joking. Just compare their Latin American networks and then repeat that statement.
a.
 
Southamerica
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Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 2:56 am

RE: CO To Cali

Thu Apr 14, 2005 8:26 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 35):
DO people in CLO and surrounding cities like to connect in MDE, BOG or PTY?

MDE could be a connecting point for CLO-inbound passengers, but only for some domestic flights; and they might as well connect in BOG where more flight options/frequecies are available.

I believe no-one in it's right mind would be excited to connect in BOG; ironically if it's a domestic-international connection on AV, but it's pretty much all we've got for international connections in the country. Bad luck that the capital of the country has a lousy undesirable airport that doesn't do the city justice.

PTY, on the other hand, as become an attractive point to connect; competitive fares, CM's impecable service, a small, compact, easy-to-handle air terminal and short connection times are among the stuff CM can offer in their Panama turf.

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 35):
For what I know of the colombians for each big city: BOG, MDE, CLO, BAQ, BGA, CUC, CTG is that the're very regional, when travelling overseas they most likely dislike to change planes in BOG

And fortunately 4 of the non-capital cities you mentioned have their own direct flights to/from MIA and PTY.





SOUTHAMERICA
 
RCS763AV
Posts: 3650
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:22 am

RE: CO To Cali

Thu Apr 14, 2005 8:34 am

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 37):
I believe no-one in it's right mind would be excited to connect in BOG; ironically if it's a domestic-international connection on AV, but it's pretty much all we've got for international connections in the country. Bad luck that the capital of the country has a lousy undesirable airport that doesn't do the city justice.

BOG is not that bad, the media have been doing bad advertisement so the project goes faster. BOG has improved a lot. I frequent flyer from BOG who hated the airport 3 years ago tells you.

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 35):
DO people in CLO and surrounding cities like to connect in MDE, BOG or PTY? I don't think so. For what I know of the colombians for each big city: BOG, MDE, CLO, BAQ, BGA, CUC, CTG is that the're very regional, when travelling overseas they most likely dislike to change planes in BOG and that for many years the options for flying from colombian cities other than BOG to many US and Latinamerican destinations without flying thru BOG have been somewhat limited to what AV, CM, Braniff and Eastern then and now AA offered.
What may look good with CO in CLO with B737-700 may be look something like this:
IAH dp 1500 > ar 2100 CLO dp 2300 > ar 0500 EWR
EWR dp 2300 > ar 0500 CLO dp 0700> ar 1100 IAH

And about connecting, its something called having a HUB, i dont know but all the things you say are so subjective....that does not happen, man, where do you get that info????
 
2travel2know
Posts: 2236
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:05 am

RE: CO To Cali

Thu Apr 14, 2005 8:44 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 36):
SJC-SAL? SJU-LIM? LAX-MBJ? Are you kidding me? AA is in business to make money

I would actually agree that many of my suggestions are ridiculous now.
About SJC: given the amount of salvadoreans in the bay area a SJC > SAL may not be a joke, but one has to see how much important of an AA hub SJC is now.
On MBJ: Air J is about to pull out of IAH leaving only CO in the Texas - MBJ route. If AA is or is thinking on DFW > GCM (texans love scuba diving) then DFW > MBJ is in the right track.
Since you are well informed on AA whereabouts, What happened to AA's DFW > PTY > DFW ? and - because this topic is about Colombia - DFW > BOG > DFW someday?
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
RCS763AV
Posts: 3650
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:22 am

RE: CO To Cali

Thu Apr 14, 2005 8:51 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 39):
I would actually agree that many of my suggestions are ridiculous now.
About SJC: given the amount of salvadoreans in the bay area a SJC > SAL may not be a joke, but one has to see how much important of an AA hub SJC is now.
On MBJ: Air J is about to pull out of IAH leaving only CO in the Texas - MBJ route. If AA is or is thinking on DFW > GCM (texans love scuba diving) then DFW > MBJ is in the right track.
Since you are well informed on AA whereabouts, What happened to AA's DFW > PTY > DFW ? and - because this topic is about Colombia - DFW > BOG > DFW someday?

Why do you keep contradicting yourself????

Anyway, MAH4546, in what stage are the new DFW routes in?????
 
MGA
Posts: 717
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 4:58 am

RE: CO To Cali

Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:25 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 39):
About SJC: given the amount of salvadoreans in the bay area a SJC > SAL may not be a joke, but one has to see how much important of an AA hub SJC is now.

Would have to be SFO-SAL, Most Salvadorians in the bay area live in the mission/19-24th st area of San Francisco... Thar route is already served by TA with 2 320's daily I believe. It may break even though... About the other routes... not a chance in hell...

MGA
Que viva el guaro, el dinero y los aviones!!!
 
2travel2know
Posts: 2236
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:05 am

RE: CO To Cali

Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:30 am

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 38):
And about connecting, its something called having a HUB, i dont know but all the things you say are so subjective....that does not happen, man, where do you get that info????

I get my info from colombians that don't live in Bogotá, colombians that don't live in Bogotá who don't like to fly domestic to BOG to board international flights, colombians who don't like to go to inmigration and customs at BOG airport and transfer to domestic when their final destination is CTG, MDE, CLO. Colombia is more than Bogotá, lucky for those in CTG, BAQ, CLO and MDE there's COPA and its hub and they're not forgotten by people from Bogota who want them to fly overseas via their airport, too bad those in BGA, CUC and PEI, aren't that lucky yet.
Cheers for CO and its new IAH > CLO flight!
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24558
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: CO To Cali

Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:56 pm

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 39):
Since you are well informed on AA whereabouts, What happened to AA's DFW > PTY > DFW ? and - because this topic is about Colombia - DFW > BOG > DFW someday?

DFW-PTY did terribly. The loads were weak and yields were not strong. DFW-BOG has been looked at. The biggest problem is that the Colombian government is very strict on new international routes, and would likely never allow it. AA would rather do JFK-BOG.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 40):
Anyway, MAH4546, in what stage are the new DFW routes in?????

The only new Dallas-Latin America route AA is currently looking at is DFW-MGA.
a.
 
Summa767
Posts: 1753
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 1:30 am

RE: CO To Cali

Thu Apr 14, 2005 5:02 pm

MAH4546, The Colombian authorities have in the past been very protective, and inded restrictive of new route and frequencies. But things have moved on now. Look, CO has its rights for the new route, and AA is adding 7 extra weekly frequencies (4 new to CLO, now 11, 3 to MDE, now 10).
As long as is is within the number of negociated flights with the US, they don't mind what routes are started. It is up to DOT to allocate them.

Copa has been given a second daily to BOG.

Air Madrid will start its 3rd weekly flight from June, in a triangular way: MAD-BOG-CTG and back to MAD. The new flight to be operated with an A343.

Air Plus Comet will fly direct to BOG, also 3 x weekly with a 747.
 
MGA
Posts: 717
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 4:58 am

RE: CO To Cali

Fri Apr 15, 2005 2:36 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 43):
The only new Dallas-Latin America route AA is currently looking at is DFW-MGA.

I'm gonna start a new thread about this.... really interesting. I dont want the columbians pissed off again about writing in their thread...  Wink

MGA
Que viva el guaro, el dinero y los aviones!!!
 
flyinfroggie
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon May 17, 2004 4:46 am

RE: CO To Cali

Fri Apr 15, 2005 7:24 am

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 5):
so I think CO knows the difference between Colombia and Columbia.

If only the crew at Newark knew the difference. I was horrified when I saw that flight 880 to Bogota Columbia was listed!
 
RCS763AV
Posts: 3650
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:22 am

RE: CO To Cali

Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:25 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 42):
I get my info from colombians that don't live in Bogotá, colombians that don't live in Bogotá who don't like to fly domestic to BOG to board international flights, colombians who don't like to go to inmigration and customs at BOG airport and transfer to domestic when their final destination is CTG, MDE, CLO. Colombia is more than Bogotá, lucky for those in CTG, BAQ, CLO and MDE there's COPA and its hub and they're not forgotten by people from Bogota who want them to fly overseas via their airport, too bad those in BGA, CUC and PEI, aren't that lucky yet.

Yes, Colombia is not only BOG, as Panama is not only PTY, and as Ecuador is not only GYE and UIO, but flights go to the big cities, where people take them, wether they like it or not, just a hint: An airline will choose an 8 million inhabitant city (BOG) instead of a 0.9 millon people city (BGA) to start a flight, because the market is in the large urban areas....
 
TACAA320
Posts: 7153
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:03 am

RE: CO To Cali

Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:31 am

Quoting MGA (Reply 45):
I dont want the columbians pissed off again about writing in their thread...

It's Colombians not ColUmbians. Just for the records.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
Southamerica
Posts: 2300
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 2:56 am

RE: CO To Cali

Fri Apr 15, 2005 9:41 am

Quoting JUANR (Reply 49):
Travellers from/to international airports in Colombia who want/need/have to connect in BOG doesn't need to go through immigration and customs at El Dorado, that is why their airports are International.

Having to go through customs in BOG is insignificant anyways after the horrendous experience of connecting through the airport itself.

Having to walk the apron in Avianca's terminal because of lack of jetways in the middle of a thunderstorm in Bogota's lousy weather. Then the time-wasting inconvinient bus experience from the Puente Aereo to the main terminal. Then the long lines in the crowded sardine-can that is usually called ticketing hall.

After experiencing such scenario, customs could be seen as a relief. It took so much time before the national media found out that the capital of the country had a ridiculous air terminal, now, after everybody experienced it by themselves, they are shouting it out loud in newspapers and magazines.

And 20 years before they see another terminal built. They're cursed.

Quoting JUANR (Reply 49):
Fortunately for us in BOG here you have those flights so we don't have to share lines, planes and public spaces

Correct, I don't want to share the long lines, the crowded spaces, nor the awful experience of connecting in BOG with anyone. Keep them to yourselves thank you.




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