mozart
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Poll Shows Passengers Don't Like Paris Airports

Thu Mar 31, 2005 4:03 pm

A report has been published yesterday that shows that passengers are not happy with PAris airports. Surprise surprise, ORY comes out best (or least bad), CDG1 is the worst.

Here's the link to the article in Yahoo, in French only, sorry: http://fr.news.yahoo.com/050330/5/4c8e7.html

Did I already say today that ADP's management should be sacked? Well, let me do it now. This is yet another reason why they should go.
 
a380900
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RE: Poll Shows Passengers Don't Like Paris Airports

Thu Mar 31, 2005 4:09 pm

Well, this is no surprise to me. These airports are the worst. I really hate them.
 
flyyul
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RE: Poll Shows Passengers Don't Like Paris Airports

Thu Mar 31, 2005 4:16 pm

Oh boo hoo.

As a rule of thumb, people dont like airports. They are chaotic, time consuming, and the source of many an exhausting experience.
 
gothamspotter
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RE: Poll Shows Passengers Don't Like Paris Airports

Thu Mar 31, 2005 4:31 pm

I'll bet if some organization did a study on what types of places people dislike the most, airports in general would probably get a worse rating than hospitals, especially large ones like CDG, JFK and LHR. No amount of cutting edge architecture, neat shops, and "gourmet" food stands can compensate for the fact that passengers are often worried about getting to their flight and the safety of the flight itself, and they might have to walk 1/2 a mile or more through poorly-signed twisting and confusing corridors to get to their gate.
 
jetdeltamsy
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RE: Poll Shows Passengers Don't Like Paris Airports

Thu Mar 31, 2005 4:33 pm

You have to walk too far and fast for connections at CDG. I hate it.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
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RayChuang
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RE: Poll Shows Passengers Don't Like Paris Airports

Thu Mar 31, 2005 4:44 pm

The big problem with CDG is that the terminal design is not conducive for connecting flights due to its multiple terminal design. This is unlike newer airports like HKG, SIN and ICN, where the terminal design is designed to better support connecting passengers.
 
Qantasclub
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RE: Poll Shows Passengers Don't Like Paris Airports

Thu Mar 31, 2005 4:44 pm

I think CDG is one fo the most stunning airports from the EXTERIOR. Perhaps it's design is not user friendly, but it sure looks good. (kinda like the French!)
Long Haul is the only way to go
 
SFOMEX
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RE: Poll Shows Passengers Don't Like Paris Airports

Thu Mar 31, 2005 4:58 pm

Only in France could a whole international terminal (CDG1) have only one elevator to get you down to catch the shuttle to the train station. Only one!!!
It was a nightmare to get a space in the elevator when dozens trying to do the same surrounded me.

That, and terminal itself sucks. To say that it's not user friendly is an understatement.
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Carpethead
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RE: Poll Shows Passengers Don't Like Paris Airports

Thu Mar 31, 2005 6:36 pm

Not to mention reliability, as there are numerous throughout the calendar year.
From a design perspective, CDG is unique and ORY doesn't have very many int'l flights.

CDG is great as an end destination but I will never use it for connection, it appears to be a nightmare. T2 was an extremely short walk from the curb to the ticket counter and to the gate.

All large airports have vast distances to cover. It's just scale of mass: more flights, larger the airports needs to be. It's just how the vast distances within the airport can be easily reached. (eg. frequently running trams, moving walkways, etc.)
 
Concorde001
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RE: Poll Shows Passengers Don't Like Paris Airports

Thu Mar 31, 2005 6:39 pm

CDG looks stunning, apart from 2A and T1!
But, I think for connections, I dislike it! AF really need something like LHR T5, which will be solely for BA - All operations under one roof, which not only reduces cost, but is easier for passengers.
 
mozart
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RE: Poll Shows Passengers Don't Like Paris Airports

Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:09 pm

Design and size are one thing, I do have some understanding for the fact that it is large. BUT: being big does not justify being filthy, dysfunctional and poorly maintained, having insufficient signposts, and being considered "not welcoming for people visiting France". All of these things can be relieved without changing the architecture. It's a matter of ADP running CDG like a dumpsite, not an international airport of the capital of the world's fourth largest economy.
 
andz
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RE: Poll Shows Passengers Don't Like Paris Airports

Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:11 pm

Quoting GothamSpotter (Reply 3):
No amount of cutting edge architecture, neat shops, and "gourmet" food stands

You CAN'T be talking about CDG, what a DUMP!
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
FlySSC
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RE: Poll Shows Passengers Don't Like Paris Airports

Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:30 pm

"The grass looks always greener in your neighbor's field" ...

I don't know if you say that en English too... anyway !

CDG is not worse than LHR or JFK... and ORY (ouest) is certainly one of the most efficient terminal in service in Europe for short conections and point to point services.

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 4):
You have to walk too far and fast for connections at CDG. I hate it.

Sure ! while in LHR, AMS or FRA, JFK you never have to walk !  sarcastic 

Of course CDG can be a mess, not more and not less than any other gigantic HUB in the world.
 
mozart
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RE: Poll Shows Passengers Don't Like Paris Airports

Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:34 pm

FlySSC,

you are right, but you are missing one point: for instance, LHR is not as dirty, its buildings are better maintained, information screens work, and shopping and catering facilities are better. As I said, any big airport involves walking a lot (size=distance), but that is no excuse for looking like a dump.
 
FlySSC
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RE: Poll Shows Passengers Don't Like Paris Airports

Fri Apr 01, 2005 1:01 am

Quoting Mozart (Reply 13):
LHR is not as dirty

 eyepopping  We must not have been in the same Terminal, or at the same time of the day !!!

I agree that CDG1 is sometimes not so clean... but really CDG2 is not more or less dirty than any other Airport (well, except CDG2A at certain times of the day when some flights of some particular airlines to certain destinations are checking-in  footinmouth  )...

Wait to see the new interior of CDG1 in a few months (or should I say years... with ADP, noone knows...); The project and the mockup is really nice !
 
UN_B732
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RE: Poll Shows Passengers Don't Like Paris Airports

Fri Apr 01, 2005 1:28 am

CDG, the only time I connected through it, was disorganised, rude, and the driver told us that we were at 2B when we were at 2A. Never again will we fly through CDG, and my relatives have had similar experiences.
What now?
 
tnsaf
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RE: Poll Shows Passengers Don't Like Paris Airports

Fri Apr 01, 2005 1:53 am

My favorite part of CDG is watching all the people smoking under the no-smoking signs.  Wink

Generally the airport seems to be badly designed for the arriving, departing or transfer passenger.
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PA110
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RE: Poll Shows Passengers Don't Like Paris Airports

Fri Apr 01, 2005 1:59 am

Yeah, CDG1 is pretty much a dump, and the lack of better access to the airport shuttle bus for destination passengers is extremely annoying, but as a transit hub, it functions really well. Transferring between flights at CDG1 is quick and painless. I would take CDG1 over LHR T3 anyday.
It's been swell, but the swelling has gone down.
 
icarus75
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RE: Poll Shows Passengers Don't Like Paris Airports

Fri Apr 01, 2005 2:26 am

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 4):
You have to walk too far and fast for connections at CDG. I hate it.

What about connections in airports like ORD? LAX?


CDG 1 is surely the worst of all!!!!!
Flying is amazing!
 
bohica
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RE: Poll Shows Passengers Don't Like Paris Airports

Fri Apr 01, 2005 7:30 am

Quoting GothamSpotter (Reply 3):
No amount of cutting edge architecture, neat shops, and "gourmet" food stands can compensate for the fact that passengers are often worried about getting to their flight and the safety of the flight itself, and they might have to walk 1/2 a mile or more through poorly-signed twisting and confusing corridors to get to their gate.

Let me add that you have to sometimes wait over an hour in the security line.
 
ozglobal
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RE: Poll Shows Passengers Don't Like Paris Airports

Fri Apr 01, 2005 9:53 am

From an earlier post of mine:

Ah, CDG....

What a paradox: a horribly run, yet very well designed airport.. It COULD be so good!

I don't think AF is really to blame here, or even their patchy ground staff. How would you like to work under the tyranny of 8 different fiefdoms, all in mortal combat for heaven knows what political supremacy...AKA: ADP "The Beast that does the will of the Beast" If you want a case study in diabolical buracracy, look know futher. I think if we were in the 14th century, Dante would have cited CDG as one his chambers of hell, or at least purgatory!!

The thing is, it needn't be that way. There's nothing wrong with the DESIGN of the airport. It's just run like a third world city (but then so is LHR).
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
 
Aither
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RE: Poll Shows Passengers Don't Like Paris Airports

Fri Apr 01, 2005 10:52 am

I worked 2 years for Paris Airport... in the passengers terminal at Roissy CDG1 & 2.

I recently went back for a connecting flight and i get... lost  Sad

The management is terrible, no one is responsible, lots of government "friends". Also they have to hire "local" people from the North East of Paris... who are not professional at all.
One of my best decision was to leave.

It is a big contrast compared to Air France : very good management, very professional and efficient.

Making the airport private is the only solution IMO and the airport staff could only blame themselves when it will happen.
Never trust the obvious
 
schipholjfk
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RE: Poll Shows Passengers Don't Like Paris Airports

Fri Apr 01, 2005 12:49 pm

Quoting FLYYUL (Reply 2):
As a rule of thumb, people dont like airports. They are chaotic, time consuming, and the source of many an exhausting experience.

Speak for yourself. A greatly designed airport is a pleasure to be - HKG, SIN, AMS, KUL - all great airports and fun to be at.
The fun of flying... love it !!!
 
sllevin
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RE: Poll Shows Passengers Don't Like Paris Airports

Fri Apr 01, 2005 1:23 pm

Quoting Schipholjfk (Reply 22):
Speak for yourself. A greatly designed airport is a pleasure to be - HKG, SIN, AMS, KUL - all great airports and fun to be at.

Exactly! The difference between those airports and CDG is night and day.

I have gotten "lost" in precisely one airport in my life. You guessed it, CDG. Admittedly, my first time there, but I've been to other airports for the first time and not found myself lost.

Steve
 
ContnlEliteCMH
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RE: Poll Shows Passengers Don't Like Paris Airports

Fri Apr 01, 2005 1:32 pm

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 12):
"The grass looks always greener in your neighbor's field" ...

I don't know if you say that en English too... anyway !

Ha! We say that, but it goes like this:

The grass is always greener on the other side.
Christianity. Islam. Hinduism. Anthropogenic Global Warming. All are matters of faith!
 
flpuck6
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RE: Poll Shows Passengers Don't Like Paris Airports

Fri Apr 01, 2005 1:34 pm

I have just come to accept that the terminals at T2 will always be as they are ... grungy and dirty, people not respecting the no-smoking law ... I have just come to overlook all that.

I connected one time at CDG, with 1h20 minutes and it was just fine for me.

If the airline tried to sell me a 45 minute connection, I would say no and purposely take the next flight. Nevermind having to run between flights, but my bags would never follow!

Sometimes, it's not so much the airport but the people using it.
Bonjour Chef!
 
FlySSC
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RE: Poll Shows Passengers Don't Like Paris Airports

Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:40 pm

The problem of CDG2 is that it was not conceived, in the 60's, to work as a "HUB", but to be as efficient as possible for point to point service, which it is indeed ! the walking distance from the entrance of the terminal to your plane is one of the shortest, if not THE shortest in Europe.

Only the 2F and 2E were conceived according to the HUB concept.

Air France has to deal with this problem everyday (and with ADP...  Sad ) The challenge is not easy and despite all theses inconvenients, it is quite remarkable that AF could make of CDG the First European HUB in terms of connections possibilities offered weekly.

Actually, the connections are quite easy within the 4 first terminals A/B/C/D, or from 2D to 2F (less than 5 minutes, walking distance).

I agree it's getting harder if you have to go from 2F to 2A, or 2E to 2B/2A.

Initially, AF flights were to be concentrated at Terminal 2D/2C/2E/2F, with later the Satellite S3. 90% of the flights (except commuters) were to be parked and treated directly at the terminals (less than 10% on a remote stand )

Last year before May 2004, the terminal 2A was not used anymore by AF and Terminal 2B was to be left by AF when 2E would be 100% operational... but we all know what happened to 2E ... melting 
 
WunalaYann
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RE: Poll Shows Passengers Don't Like Paris Airport

Fri Apr 01, 2005 6:35 pm

Quoting Mozart (Reply 10):
Design and size are one thing, I do have some understanding for the fact that it is large. BUT: being big does not justify being filthy, dysfunctional and poorly maintained, having insufficient signposts, and being considered "not welcoming for people visiting France". All of these things can be relieved without changing the architecture. It's a matter of ADP running CDG like a dumpsite, not an international airport of the capital of the world's fourth largest economy.

I second that 100%! Except for the "fourth largest economy"... Are you sure? I would not think France ranks higher than the UK... Quite the opposite. Are you talking in per-capita terms?  Confused

About AF having its own terminal, well that was the plan with 2E. Er, hum, well, notice the "was".

CDG in general. It has a significant advantage over many large hubs in the world, and that is extension potential. I think (opinion) that the infrastructure itself (the buildings, the runway system, the roads connecting the buildings, the public transportation system that links to Paris and the rest of France, etc.) is good. Actually very good. Design? Well, anybody's taste.

IMHO, the fact that CDG is such a mess has a lot to do with the "finishing" touch. Just as important as the infrastructure hardware. Where is the clear and bilingual signalling? Where are the clear maps for the shuttle system?
Even more importantly: CUSTOMER SERVICE!!!! To all ADP grumpy people: no, it is not obvious that CDG1 train station is much closer to T3 than to T1. No, it is not obvious that it's quicker and more user-friendly to actually WALK from CDG2 train station to ALL T2 buildings (if you are not loaded with 100kg of luggage, that is), and so on and so forth.

Basically, I would say that the hardware is very good, but the software is worse than DOS.

Then again, just a Parisian's opinion...  Smile

Cheers.
 
FlySSC
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RE: Poll Shows Passengers Don't Like Paris Airports

Fri Apr 01, 2005 6:44 pm

Quoting WunalaYann (Reply 27):
the public transportation system that links to Paris

In my opinion, that's the "weakest link" of CDG !!!

CDG has TGV connections with BRU and most of the French cities, but though it has improved recently with the introduction of nonstop trains from CDG to "Gare du Nord", it is quite unbelievable that after 30 years of existence, there is no "Roissy Express", a dedicated train transport from/to Paris, thanks to the Lobby of the Taxis ...

Thanks god the project of such a train seems to materialize, but from "Gare de l'est" ...
 
pipo777
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RE: Poll Shows Passengers Don't Like Paris Airports

Fri Apr 01, 2005 6:45 pm

I don't mind CDG at all. I wasn't too impressed with ORY, but it wasn't bad either...Honestly, I can think of many airports that are worse than this two...
 
WunalaYann
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RE: Poll Shows Passengers Don't Like Paris Airports

Fri Apr 01, 2005 7:01 pm

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 28):
CDG has TGV connections with BRU and most of the French cities, but though it has improved recently with the introduction of nonstop trains from CDG to "Gare du Nord", it is quite unbelievable that after 30 years of existence, there is no "Roissy Express", a dedicated train transport from/to Paris, thanks to the Lobby of the Taxis ...

Thanks god the project of such a train seems to materialize, but from "Gare de l'est" ...

Hmm, I think you have a good point, but the matter is a lot more complex than it appears to be. I would gladly read your thoughts on it, but I am not sure the Mods would let us discuss the subject on the Av forum...

Still. CDG Express. My, my. First, and recurring, problem with infrastructures in France: where is the money? The cost of CDG Express is estimated (and God knows how bad we are at estimating major projects' costs...) at 600 million €.

The French government is bankrupt. BIG hurdle.

Then, there are issues related to the much-needed improvement of RER B, the train that links downtown Paris to northern suburbs and CDG. Because RER B, as you have rightly pointed it, is not dedicated to serving CDG. It is also a major commuter train, and one that faces serious congestion/saturation problems. So there is a project to double the existing tracks on RER B, thus enabling direct trains to CDG to "pass" trains that stop at every station.

This project, which I favour, would kill three birds with one stone. First, it would be much, much, MUCH cheaper than CDG Express (which would be a completely new infrastructure). That's not to say we can afford it, anyway. The budget is THAT tight. Second, it would basically double the number of direct Paris/CDG trains, and significantly reduce travel time. Third, it would seriously help commuters from northern suburbs, because they would have access to a much more reliable and fast service to Paris.

It would be financially less draining, technically more helpful (French railways would love less congestion), and socially more acceptable ("why all the money to tourists and businessmen, and nothing for us communters?" etc.).

Then again, just my  twocents  ...

 Smile

Cheers,

Y.
 
sebolino
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RE: Poll Shows Passengers Don't Like Paris Airports

Fri Apr 01, 2005 7:02 pm

Quoting Mozart (Thread starter):
Did I already say today that ADP's management should be sacked?

Actually you are saying it at least once a week. I guess you have something personal against them.
 
dl021
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RE: Poll Shows Passengers Don't Like Paris Airports

Sat Apr 02, 2005 1:17 am

The reason people don't like the Paris airports has more to do with surly staff who act as if we are lucky to have them and they don't have time for us, rather than the other way around........ and seemingly haphazard growth of the terminals that do not lend themselves to easy connections at all times.

The transportation to and from the city center is no worse than many other major airports out there (ever try to get from Dulles to DC without a rental car?) and if Wunala is correct that they are expanding RER B then it will get better. But the bus/train/car network is not bad as it is.

CDG would be a much better airport if the employees were nicer and the terminals had a better intra-terminal transport plan.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
ZRH
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RE: Poll Shows Passengers Don't Like Paris Airports

Sat Apr 02, 2005 1:43 am

The worst thing that can happen at Paris' airports is when you have to change from CDG to ORY or vice versa. It takes you by bus at least two hours. I am asking myself why they don't have a train between these two airports.
 
WunalaYann
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RE: Poll Shows Passengers Don't Like Paris Airports

Sat Apr 02, 2005 2:25 am

Quoting DL021 (Reply 32):
and if Wunala is correct that they are expanding RER B then it will get better.

Er, Ian, sorry, I did not express myself clearly. For now, there are projects. Decisions are still to be made, for public money is scarce, if not non-existent.
 ashamed 

I *tend* to believe that something will be done regarding CDG/Paris rail link. Peering in my crystal ball, I would say a decision will be made by 2007, in order to, maybe, have things in place for the 2012 Olympics.

NO, I DO NOT ASSUME THAT PARIS WILL BE CHOSEN!!!  Wink

As for ADP staff, oh Good Lord...  banghead  There is hope, though, as ADP is currently conducting a change in its legal status, opening speculations about a potential introduction into Paris's stock-exchange.

I am not saying that privatization = better service. Not at all. I am merely pointing to the fact that such a drastic change (well, yes, at France's scale, this is spectacular change...) usually sends shockwaves through the organization... What comes out of it, well, my crystal ball suddenly becomes a lot foggier.  Silly

Cheers,

Yann.
 
lobster
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RE: Poll Shows Passengers Don't Like Paris Airports

Sat Apr 02, 2005 6:07 am

Well, I've been to both CDG and ORY. I had to catch a flight to LHR from CDG and just getting to the damn place was a pain. The SNCF was no help getting here, and once on CDG property, I had to wait about 20 minutes for a BUS to take me to my terminal. Of coarse they piled as many people in there as possible so the ride was nice and comfy. Check in was the oddest I've ever had, but once I got to the gate, I just waited to see when everyone stood up to go to the plane. Not many announements in english. I flew from LIN to ORY once and once we got to ORY, the markings for customs/no need for customs. We came off the plane and had a choice, do we go through customs or just go get out bags and head out? I thought I read somewhere that if your flight originates in the UE, you don't have to go back through customs if you land in another EU country. Any truth to that? or did we become illegal aliens in Paris for a few days? ha ha. Once we got out bags, we went to buy tickets for the metro, no one there at the SNCF both and machines did not take plastic. Nice. From now on its train only if I have to go to Paris. Fly to AMS and take Thalys to Nord. Just my 2 cents.
 
Btblue
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RE: Poll Shows Passengers Don't Like Paris Airports

Sat Apr 02, 2005 6:43 am

I actually like the dated look of Orly and I love CDG especially the new Terminal(s).

What I don't like is that once you have checked in and you head through security there isn't much for you to do other than have a look at a few basic shops. The food is crap.

Having said that I have only ever flown domestic within France or from CDG and Orly to LHR and AMS.
146/2/3 737/2/3/4/5/7/8/9 A320 1/2/18/19/21 DC9/40/50 DC10/30 A300/6 A330/2/3 A340/3/6 A380 757/2/3 747/4 767/3/4 787 77
 
Tomys
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RE: Poll Shows Passengers Don't Like Paris Airports

Sat Apr 02, 2005 6:57 am

I am not surprised by that, CDG is the worst airport right after Atlanta. I like PRG and Amsterodam, it's quite good.
 
LFutia
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RE: Poll Shows Passengers Don't Like Paris Airports

Sat Apr 02, 2005 7:15 am

Amsterdam is high up in the ranks because of its simplicity. If Paris became like Amsterdam and actually had friendly people and didnt have rude, arrogant people along with the mismanaged people of the ADP .... im sure many people would like Paris...
Leo/ORD -- Groetjes uit de VS! -- Heeft u laatst nog met KLM gevlogen?
 
amhilde
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RE: Poll Shows Passengers Don't Like Paris Airports

Sat Apr 02, 2005 7:19 am

I dont remember who helped me a month back when i was worrying about a CDG connection, but thank you whoever you were. Your advice was most helpful!

My CDG experience was pretty awful- Upon landing (AA 767) it took them an HOUR to open the aircraft door because first they rolled up stairs that didnt work on the plane, then stairs with ice on them, then stairs that didnt work WITH ice, then finally they found some that did work. Then we got on a bus. And waited. Then went to the terminal. The pollution was incredible,but wow was it nifty being that close to a 767  Smile and all the other planes on the tarmac. They clonked my passport and then i had the awesome task of trying to figure out where i was and then where i was going. I read French and lord I couldnt figure out where the hell I was going for at LEAST 15 minutes. I did eventually find the walkway- which rocked cause I didnt want to take the shuttle :/

Eventually I ended up at the Air France desk for the flight to CPH, but they were going terribly slow and I didnt have much hope for my bags- but they made it in the end. But this was that Thursday from Hell when everything was delayed for weather.

My major problems with CDG?

1) The layout of the desks and the waiting areas- what kind of logic exists here? The layers of desks and crap (i.e. shops and check in kiosks) between airport entrance and jetways is incredible. I felt like i didnt have any space- the visual clutter drove me crazy, and when the flights were all delayed there wasnt anywhere to sit and people were crammed in between the jetway desks and the back end of the security line.

2) Everything seems very low and very crammed in

3) Whats up with that bussing system? The driver to the AF flight almost hit a baggage truck. I knew then i was in France.

4) Do airplanes EVER park at the jetways?

Visually its a horrible airport, and it strains the traveller rather than alleviates like the airports that allow for lots of space and light- like AMS, CPH, LAX, hell even ORD. Id rather spend 5 hours stuck at LAS with incessant slot machines than spend another 5 hours stuck at CDG as i was on that day.
Hang on tightly, Let go lightly
 
AEROFAN
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RE: Poll Shows Passengers Don't Like Paris Airports

Sat Apr 02, 2005 1:59 pm

CDG sucks! And the people who work there there don't help to make the experience any better either. I would go so far to say that they are in actuality part of the problem.

[Edited 2005-04-02 05:59:37]

[Edited 2005-04-02 06:00:12]
 
WunalaYann
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RE: Poll Shows Passengers Don't Like Paris Airports

Sat Apr 02, 2005 6:52 pm

Hmmm. If they cared (don't worry, guys, they don't), the people from ADP would find your criticism very harsh.

I personally think your remarks are right on the button.

So. Let us begin:

Quoting Amhilde (Reply 39):
1) The layout of the desks and the waiting areas- what kind of logic exists here?

None. Remember, if everywhere in the world form usually follows function, France has a nasty habit of being an exception.  Wink More seriously, CDG1 remains a mystery. I don't know if that will ease your mind, but French people (hell, even us, Parisians, the superior race  Silly ) do struggle with CDG.

Quoting Amhilde (Reply 39):
I read French and lord I couldnt figure out where the hell I was going for at LEAST 15 minutes.

Congrats!  bigthumbsup  You are in the top 10%! Most people (that again includes us French) need an hour to figure it out, and we read French. Ahem, well, some of us.  Smile

Quoting Amhilde (Reply 39):
Eventually I ended up at the Air France desk for the flight to CPH, but they were going terribly slow

Ok. You made three mistakes: AF + CDG + connection. Next time, you'll know.  Wink

As for practical advice... Here is a link to a pdf document, unfortunately, it's in French, I could not find it in English, but I hope it will help.

General rule #1, avoid connecting in CDG.  Smile

Coming from downtown Paris:
=> if you take off from CDG2 (all buildings, from A to F), ride the RER B (get a cab for those who can afford it) to CDG2 station, and then WALK. I know, I know. 60kg of luggage, the kids, jet lag, etc. But it's the safest, easiest way to get from point A to point B. On a good day, you'll even have working walkways.  Wink From the station, you can reach all buildings within walking distance, provided you have a trolley.

=> if, Heaven forbid, you take off from CDG1... The day before, go to Notre-Dame/synagogue/mosque/temple, all of them, and pray. On departure day, wake up early. From Saint Michel station to CDG1 station, count on 50 minutes. Add the mandatory 2h30/3h checking/boarding time, and then a full hour to the total. That's the time you need to safely make it there.

BUT, you will need to take the shuttle. I know. I feel for you, believe me. So, the link below should give you an idea on how to procede. Take your time. Once you have found the bus that goes in the appropriate direction, get on it. Don't you ever ask anything to the driver. At best, he'll ignore you, at worst he'll run you over. Yes, announcements are made in French and in English on the bus, so don't worry. Don't sit. Be ready to get off very quickly.

http://www.adp.fr/webadp/a_cont01.ns...2003.pdf#search='Navettes%20ADP'

After that, well I leave you to the expert hands of ADP people.

Isn't Paris a beautiful place? Hmm?

 Smile

Cheers,

Yann.
 
Doona
Posts: 3382
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 9:43 am

RE: Poll Shows Passengers Don't Like Paris Airports

Sat Apr 02, 2005 7:10 pm

Do you really need a poll to show this? I had a 2.5 hr layover in CDG, coming in from CPH on AF and going to CVG on DL. Due to the ridiculous lines at the security checkpoint, I missed my flight. I tried talking to Delta reps hanging around the checkpoint, but they said that they were to collect PAX heading to PHL, and that I would be fine, since my flight was delayed. Alas, I finally got through and hurried to my gate, 10 mins after the original departure time, thinking I might make it if the flight was delayed. But, when I got there, the A/C was nowhere to be seen. At least they were decent to put me on the flight to PHL, which HAD in fact been delayed, and then to CVG... Of course I missed my connection to ORD, and on to OMA... But it all worked out in the end...

Cheers
Mats
Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
 
SQ325
Posts: 1274
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2001 7:54 pm

RE: Poll Shows Passengers Don't Like Paris Airports

Sat Apr 02, 2005 7:47 pm

Well one point not mentiones so far is that the staff in CDG is maybe the worst airport staff worldwide especialy if you don't speak french!
And by the way for us pilots CDG is the worst airport in europe because of language problems.
Controllers are talking french to all french aircraft which is sometimes very difficult for foreign pilots.
You only hear some french talking and your TCAS is full of targets and you have no clou who the traffic is and where its flying.
Once there was an order to speak english but in order to speak english the controllers started industrial action.
That show how ignorant and arrogant the Staff in CDG is.
 
WunalaYann
Posts: 2128
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 12:55 am

RE: Poll Shows Passengers Don't Like Paris Airports

Sat Apr 02, 2005 9:34 pm

Quoting Doona (Reply 42):
But it all worked out in the end...

Yeah, but like the Strokes say, sometimes "the end has no end"... More seriously, sorry about the total screw-up, Mats. Then again, everyone, avoid connecting in CDG at all cost! I'm sure you would have preferred to pay 150$ more for your ticket to connect in FRA or LHR...

Quoting SQ325 (Reply 43):
Controllers are talking french to all french aircraft which is sometimes very difficult for foreign pilots.

WHAT????????????? I thought since the Tenerife disaster ATC communication was English-only!!!!!!!! Aren't there strict codes and regulations for that? I'm dumbfounded...  Sad
 
SQ325
Posts: 1274
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2001 7:54 pm

RE: Poll Shows Passengers Don't Like Paris Airports

Sat Apr 02, 2005 9:42 pm

Usualy it is in english but in France and sometimes in Italy controllers are not willing "able" to speak proper english.
Last time approaching CDG there was a FedEx MD11 infront of us and the pilot asked wether it is possible to speak english with all aircrafts. He didn't even get a respond by the controller!
 
DBCooper
Posts: 163
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2004 2:51 am

RE: Poll Shows Passengers Don't Like Paris Airports

Sat Apr 02, 2005 10:19 pm

Well, I might be in the minority, but a couple of years ago when I was on a team doing work in Cyprus, we ended up shifting our Americas->Cyprus connect point from LHR to CDG because LHR was such a mess. Combined with late arrivals and despite a nearly 3:00 connection, we were regularly missing our onward flights to LCA (costing us half a day plus). Once we switched to CDG, we never suffered any further misconnects despite a similar connection time.

The key to any connection is having some idea of what you need to do before you actually have to do it. Forewarned is forearmed, or something like that.


- DBC
 
WunalaYann
Posts: 2128
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 12:55 am

RE: Poll Shows Passengers Don't Like Paris Airports

Sat Apr 02, 2005 10:44 pm

Quoting SQ325 (Reply 45):
ast time approaching CDG there was a FedEx MD11 infront of us and the pilot asked wether it is possible to speak english with all aircrafts. He didn't even get a respond by the controller!

I will never look up at the sky in Paris the same way again...  wideeyed 

DBCooper, you are right. Most of the time, the system works, at CDG. What people complain about is the customer/service approach of the company in charge of providing it. Lack thereof, more so.

When the system works, travellers do not have to contact ADP as much as when things totally unravel. It's the combination of ADP + problems that is absolutely deadly.

 Smile

Y.
 
Orion737
Posts: 3044
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2005 10:14 pm

RE: Poll Shows Passengers Don't Like Paris Airports

Sat Apr 02, 2005 10:48 pm

What about Beauvais? according to Ryanair thats a Paris airport Big grin
 
WunalaYann
Posts: 2128
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 12:55 am

RE: Poll Shows Passengers Don't Like Paris Airports

Sat Apr 02, 2005 10:51 pm

Sure. 150€ for a taxi ride up there...  Wink

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