ouboy79
Posts: 4110
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 1:48 pm

U Gets More Time For Ch 11

Fri Apr 01, 2005 3:04 am

Reuters
US Airways Gets More Time to Reorganize
Thursday March 31, 11:41 am ET

ALEXANDRIA, Va. (Reuters) - A U.S. bankruptcy judge on Thursday gave US Airways until May 31 to file a reorganization plan without interference from creditors.

http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/050331/airlines_usairways.html?.v=2

Other details...Judge Mitchell approved the Republic financing deal contingent on US Airways getting at least another $100 million.

US Airways has until May 31st to file a POR and target exit is by August 31st. This obviously means that GECAS and other creditors have come to an agreement to delay the exit from Chapter 11.

My personal thoughts...they rushed through too quickly last time due to ATSB deadlines. This time they might as well attempt to get it right and not rush to things. Heck look at UAL...they've been dancing in front of the bench for nearly 3 years now.
 
NWAFA
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RE: U Gets More Time For Ch 11

Fri Apr 01, 2005 3:06 am

US deserves more time...but UA on the other hand has had enough time..Im sure they will get another extenion here shortly instead of coming up with a plan.
THANK YOU FOR FLYING NORTHWEST AIRLINES, WE TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS!
 
7e72004
Posts: 3440
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 12:15 am

RE: U Gets More Time For Ch 11

Fri Apr 01, 2005 3:08 am

I don't see US staying in bankruptcy as long as UA has...i think US will get their act together and reorganize into a better and smaller airline.
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
FriendlySkies
Posts: 3540
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2004 3:57 pm

RE: U Gets More Time For Ch 11

Fri Apr 01, 2005 3:17 am

Quoting NWAFA (Reply 1):
US deserves more time...but UA on the other hand has had enough time..Im sure they will get another extenion here shortly instead of coming up with a plan.

Why does US deserve more time and UA doesn't? Let me remind you, US rushed through bankruptcy the first time, with a plan that obviously failed. UA is spending as long as possible to get every last penny out of the bankruptcy. UA is also a hell of a lot bigger than US, and there's a lot more to reorganize. I'm sure if NW was in bankruptcy for 2 years and wanted another extension, you'd be telling everyone how much they needed and deserved it...
 
CTHEWORLD
Posts: 463
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 5:27 am

RE: U Gets More Time For Ch 11

Fri Apr 01, 2005 3:38 am

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 3):
Why does US deserve more time and UA doesn't? Let me remind you, US rushed through bankruptcy the first time, with a plan that obviously failed. UA is spending as long as possible to get every last penny out of the bankruptcy. UA is also a hell of a lot bigger than US, and there's a lot more to reorganize. I'm sure if NW was in bankruptcy for 2 years and wanted another extension, you'd be telling everyone how much they needed and deserved it...

Amen!
 
NWAFA
Posts: 1843
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RE: U Gets More Time For Ch 11

Fri Apr 01, 2005 3:42 am

FriendlySky,

Should NWA been in B.K. for three years I would not say they would deserve to continue. Got I hope we don't do the BK dance, but that could very easily happen...but 3 years is way to long.

So NO I woulud not say that. I belive in crap or get off the pot. I went through it at PanAm, my first and biggest love.

US jumped out way too quick, we all know that, but they realized that and they are dancing back in BK...but UA is just abusing the system. 3 years and the plan is....................................................
THANK YOU FOR FLYING NORTHWEST AIRLINES, WE TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS!
 
burnsie28
Posts: 5026
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 1:49 am

RE: U Gets More Time For Ch 11

Fri Apr 01, 2005 3:42 am

Sorry but there is no reason that it should take UA over 2 years to file a plan, not to fully re-organize, id be surprised if they even have began the first word on the plan.
 
7e72004
Posts: 3440
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 12:15 am

RE: U Gets More Time For Ch 11

Fri Apr 01, 2005 3:50 am

Isn't NW the more financially "stable" airline out of all of "legends?"
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
ouboy79
Posts: 4110
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 1:48 pm

RE: U Gets More Time For Ch 11

Fri Apr 01, 2005 3:55 am

There comes a time when you use Chapter 11 for what it is meant to do...reorganize...and a time when you abuse it - avoid the costs of your competitors. Lets not turn this into a UAL vs U debate because both airlines are completely different. UAL is the old style legacy...U is the creature of multiple "locals" or regionals forged together through several misguided mergers.

As far as points on both...

U rushed through the first time, put a plan in place that was not forward thinking to skyrocketing fuel costs and wound up failing. Not many companies get a second chance...they have proven to be an airline that has some fight left in them to restructure.

UAL entered Ch11 all on the airline "going all in" in hopes of getting the ATSB loan. ATSB said no...3 times...and they were caught with no plan B. The shuffle of regional carriers with ACA becoming a competitor in IAD and AWAC investing heavily in a competitor/partner. UAL though has a significant international presence and a good network across the US...with some fine tuning they can definitely turn the corner.

I think the best solution for both airlines would be to transform into a new style LCC. One division of the company being international where the yeilds are decent and they make money, the other being a domestic low fare operation...similar to what America West did domestically.
 
Azul320
Posts: 257
Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2004 10:49 am

RE: U Gets More Time For Ch 11

Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:10 am

I still fail to understand how that company loses hundreds of millions quarterly, when they are under BK protection, progressively offered hundreds of millions by GECAS and 2 commuter airlines, secured $1.1 Billion dollars in annual labor savings, continue to cut unprofitable routes/planes, consolidate Airbus aircraft payments/cancel future orders and get back the $6 million deposit, outsource maintenance, cut their employee work force in half since 2001, close costly clubs and still lose money. How in the hell?? What clown is running that company? Psycho Bob?!

[Edited 2005-03-31 21:11:20]

[Edited 2005-03-31 21:14:09]

[Edited 2005-03-31 21:17:38]

[Edited 2005-03-31 21:28:43]
Excuse me, while I kiss the sky
 
IAHTowTeam
Posts: 127
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 12:36 am

RE: U Gets More Time For Ch 11

Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:17 am

I am too also puzzled how United could still be losing money and have been in BK for over 2 years. I think United will eventually flounder. I really don't beleive there is a chance for UA. Given all the conditions and the protection that BK gives them and them still losing money....well, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out.

I hate to see them go because of the loss of jobs and good poeple but these are the times we live in, mergers, takeovers, buyouts and bankruptcy. Don't ya love it~
 
TPASXM787
Posts: 1667
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 6:31 am

RE: U Gets More Time For Ch 11

Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:19 am

US is trimming down and making themselves smaller, which is what they need to do. Ok, let's clear one thing up(and this comes straight from a US pilot) what wrecked US was MetroJet. Unlike Ted, where United is charging lower fares and overlaying other airlines' rounts, US overlaid THEMSELVES!!!  banghead 

This, combined with rising fuel costs, have really hurt US. They need to get back to what made them successful.

Actually, let's just bring back Piedmont.
This is the Last Stop.
 
Azul320
Posts: 257
Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2004 10:49 am

RE: U Gets More Time For Ch 11

Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:24 am

High fuel costs blah blah blah. First it was the LCC labor cost advantage, then they cut it by ONE BILLION a year. Ater that, same clutter of 'bad future for US' news articles...Now, they blame fuel.
Excuse me, while I kiss the sky
 
SonOfACaptain
Posts: 1695
Joined: Thu May 27, 2004 5:36 am

RE: U Gets More Time For Ch 11

Fri Apr 01, 2005 9:14 am

Quoting Azul320 (Reply 12):
Now, they blame fuel.

...well because it is fuel.

-SOAC
Non Illegitimi Carborundum
 
yul332LX
Posts: 798
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2004 5:15 am

RE: U Gets More Time For Ch 11

Fri Apr 01, 2005 9:22 am

Quoting Azul320 (Reply 12):
High fuel costs blah blah blah. First it was the LCC labor cost advantage, then they cut it by ONE BILLION a year. Ater that, same clutter of 'bad future for US' news articles...Now, they blame fuel.

Amen to that! If they can't survive now with the supposedly high fuel price, then they can't survive at all.

Current oil prices are quickly becoming the new standard prices.
E volavo, volavo felice più in alto del sole, e ancora più su mentre il mondo pian piano spariva lontano laggiù ...
 
ouboy79
Posts: 4110
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 1:48 pm

RE: U Gets More Time For Ch 11

Fri Apr 01, 2005 9:48 am

Apparently as some of our armchair CEOs here seem to keep forgetting, every airline right now is scrambling to redo their business model (in some fashion) to adapt to higher fuel prices. DL has been rumored to be flirting with bankrupcty again, Continental is getting major cost reductions past through, and Northwest is taking similar cost cutting steps. Southwest is even needing to find ways to adjust to the higher fuel prices.

U has one more chance. We'll see what the POR has in it and see if their plan will make them profitable or if it will fail.
 
FriendlySkies
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Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2004 3:57 pm

RE: U Gets More Time For Ch 11

Wed Apr 06, 2005 6:08 am

Quoting Ouboy79 (Reply 8):
I think the best solution for both airlines would be to transform into a new style LCC. One division of the company being international where the yeilds are decent and they make money, the other being a domestic low fare operation...similar to what America West did domestically.

You mean like what UA is doing with Ted?  Wink
 
ouboy79
Posts: 4110
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 1:48 pm

RE: U Gets More Time For Ch 11

Wed Apr 06, 2005 7:11 am

More so where the majority of domestic ops going to the LCC format...so a wider scale than Ted and Song.