jdwfloyd
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DL Trying To Kill US, Did It Hurt Them?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 3:38 am

Back in January when DL cut there ticket prices in an effort to drive the final nail in the US coffin, did it end up hurting them more due to the fact US survived? It seemed like they made a big gamble in the fact that their actions would kill US and lost, is it affecting them now or will it?
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: DL Trying To Kill US, Did It Hurt Them?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 3:44 am

If it was indeed directed at US, then it did more damage to themselves. They are ever closer to bankruptcy now. And I for one fail to see the logic and killing US when the LCC's will fill the void quicker than the majors. DL already has to deal with AirTran at ATL, do they really want major WN (for example)operations at CLT?
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padcrasher
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RE: DL Trying To Kill US, Did It Hurt Them?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 3:45 am

I'd say it's most likely hurt a little. US Air operates in fairly high RASM markets compared to other airlines. Even their CEO said this week yield has gone lower. Now much of this may have to do with Southwest and Indly but the new Delta fare structure did not help.
 
burnsie28
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RE: DL Trying To Kill US, Did It Hurt Them?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 3:48 am

Southwest is purposly out to destroy US. While US have hurt themselves, Southwest is just going after US, not for the cities but for the airline. First PHL, which is funny, because they wont go to DFW "because it doesnt fit their model of non- delay proned airport) yet they go to PHL and not say a thing, which is more delay proned then DFW, not to mention MDW. Funny how much they have been contradicting themselves lately, seems like "the almighty" is falling like the Roman Empire.
 
NWAFA
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RE: DL Trying To Kill US, Did It Hurt Them?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 3:51 am

The Dl fares are hurting everyone, not just US.
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FlyPNS1
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RE: DL Trying To Kill US, Did It Hurt Them?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 3:57 am

I don't think Simplifares had much to do with USAirways. Simplifares is DL's recognition that a simplified pricing structure is where the industry is headed. Even US recognized this and was starting to transition in that direction with GoFares. US was unwilling to go all the way, but it was bound to happen sooner or later.

I do think DL also pushed Simplifares a little faster, because of a lesson they learned from US. US continued it's high-fare gouging scheme a little too long in PHL which created an open invitation for WN to invade. DL saw what happened and did not want a repeat in CVG. This is why CVG saw Simplifares before the rest of DL's system.

I also don't think Simplifares has done as much damage as many believe. Both CO and AA (who have matched DL's Simplifares) have recently admitted that domestic RASM's are actually starting to show signs of improvement. What's pusing DL to the brink (and other carriers as well) is fuel. DL did not budget for oil at $55 a barrel.
 
padcrasher
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RE: DL Trying To Kill US, Did It Hurt Them?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:34 am

AA is reporting a 3-4% RASM gain so far this Q
 
bobnwa
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RE: DL Trying To Kill US, Did It Hurt Them?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 6:35 am

Jdwfloyd, where did you get the idea that the Delta fare initiative was aimed at US. Please share that info with the members.
 
cmb320
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RE: DL Trying To Kill US, Did It Hurt Them?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 6:40 am

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 3):
Funny how much they have been contradicting themselves lately, seems like "the almighty" is falling like the Roman Empire.

How does Southwest being sneaky in an attempt to push out the competition mean that "the almighty" Southwest is failing? They seem to be quite successful in their clever attacks at the moment.
 
ALB2ATL
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RE: DL Trying To Kill US, Did It Hurt Them?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 6:56 am

Since the introduction of Simplifares, I am finding much higer airfare out of ALB!
 
DCA-ROCguy
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RE: DL Trying To Kill US, Did It Hurt Them?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 7:29 am

That's because ALB doesn't have AirTran. If you're not finding Simplifares on ALB-ATL, it's probably because DL has no motive to introduce Simplifares there. Just like folks in my hometown, Rochester, aren't holding our breath waiting for those USAirways GoFares on ROC-PIT, ROC-PHL, ROC-BOS, etc. Since US is so committed to a new lower-cost busines model, we know they're just dying to introduce $250 rt walkups and $100 rt advance purchase on ROC-PIT. Wonder why that isn't their daily, regular practice yet? Big grin

I think the first two paragraphs of FlyPNS1's analysis are correct. I don't know enough about the contents of the third to make an assessment.

Burnsie, you really ought to kick back with a beer or ale and relax. I recommend some kind of Belgian white beer, like Hoegaarden. As CMB320 noted, your statements aren't even coherent. How is Southwest "falling" when they're one of the only profitable carrier out there?

As for entering high-fare US Airways markets, I say: Good for Southwest! More power to them! Bring the free market and fare discipline to consumers who can use it.

Jim
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UA744Flagship
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RE: DL Trying To Kill US, Did It Hurt Them?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 7:44 am

Quoting Padcrasher (Reply 6):
AA is reporting a 3-4% RASM gain so far this Q

AA's RASM outperformance is a result of two factors:

Primary Factor:
Effects of the DL pull-down of the DFW hub.

Secondary Factor:
Decrease of overall capacity on transcon markets.

Going forward, UA's pull-down of ORD service is forecast to be good for AA as well.
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jdwfloyd
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RE: DL Trying To Kill US, Did It Hurt Them?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 7:47 am

It just seemed that these new low fares came out at the same time US was really hurting for cash. Maybe DL's timing was just a little too convenient for the situation.
 
bobnwa
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RE: DL Trying To Kill US, Did It Hurt Them?

Fri Apr 01, 2005 8:43 am

DCA-ROCguy,

Don't confuse our Southwest expert with facts. He is also the expert on NWA new aircraft orders even when wrong.
 
daron4000
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RE: DL Trying To Kill US, Did It Hurt Them?

Sat Apr 02, 2005 12:07 am

Quoting UA744Flagship (Reply 11):
Going forward, UA's pull-down of ORD service is forecast to be good for AA as well.

What pulldown are you talking about? United still carries more people on more flights out of ORD than AA.
 
Thucydides
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RE: DL Trying To Kill US, Did It Hurt Them?

Sat Apr 02, 2005 1:09 am

Quoting DCA-ROCguy (Reply 10):
That's because ALB doesn't have AirTran. If you're not finding Simplifares on ALB-ATL, it's probably because DL has no motive to introduce Simplifares there.

Simplifares have been implemented system wide domestically and are not reserved for certain routes.
 
SongStar
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RE: DL Trying To Kill US, Did It Hurt Them?

Sat Apr 02, 2005 2:13 am

I think some people are confusing Simplifares with "rock bottom fares" DL implimented Simplifares as a way to "simplify" the fare structures...not to slash fares all across the board....They capped the highest fare domestically ( $499 Y class and $599 F class ) but that doesn't mean they are also selling seats for $29....

just my 2 cents


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Midway2AirTran
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RE: DL Trying To Kill US, Did It Hurt Them?

Sat Apr 02, 2005 4:27 am

Quoting SongStar (Reply 16):
I think some people are confusing Simplifares with "rock bottom fares" DL implimented Simplifares as a way to "simplify" the fare structures...not to slash fares all across the board....They capped the highest fare domestically ( $499 Y class and $599 F class ) but that doesn't mean they are also selling seats for $29....

Exactly! They tried hard to make it look like that to draw attention from LCCs. Kudos to the DL PR staff for not only leading on the traveling public, but expert Aneters too, about Simplifares. After it was introduced, most of the advanced coach fares actually increased.

As for the US effect, as of a month ago I have noticed DL finally matching US lowest fares again for the first time since Simplifares for RDU-JAN that I fly twice a month. Anybody else noticing the same change in other markets? Maybe the traveling public knows how to airfare shop better than DL thought?
"Life is short, but your delay in ATL is not."