PPVRA
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Embraer To Unveil New Business Jet In 3 Months

Fri Apr 01, 2005 7:49 am

Excerpts from the article:

... Embraer, will unveil plans for a new line of business jets within three months, Embraer executives told reporters Wednesday.

"Embraer wants to become a major player in the executive aviation market in the next 10 years," said Luis Carlos Affonso, recently appointed to head up this line of Embraer's business.



Affonso, who previously managed development of Embraer's 170 and 190 family of commercial aircraft, would not confirm market speculation that the plans include development of a very light jet, or VLJ.

However, he indicated the new plane would likely be smaller than Embraer's existing super midsize executive jet, the Legacy.



The Embraer executives said they estimate VLJs will account for 17% of new aircraft delivered around the world over the next 10 years, equivalent to 1,400 aircraft.


The VLJs under development weigh 10,000 pounds or less, need just one pilot and usually carry between four and six passengers.

The price tags are also light, below $2.5 million, which is less than the $4.2 million for the cheapest jets currently available on the market.



Affonso said if the firm were to build a VLJ, it would take three to four years to get to market.



Rest of article: http://money.iwon.com/jsp/nw/nwdt_rt...=20050330&alias=/alias/money/cm/nw

VLJs (Very light jets) seat between 4 and 7 passangers.

I think this is just great, now I really wonder how it will look like... can't wait to see pictures!

PPVRA
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
PPVRA
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RE: Embraer To Unveil New Business Jet In 3 Months

Wed Apr 06, 2005 8:06 pm

Update:

Just read in a different article that stated the new bizjet should be out in the market in 3 to 5 years.

Cheers,
PPVRA
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
erikwilliam
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RE: Embraer To Unveil New Business Jet In 3 Months

Wed Apr 06, 2005 9:20 pm

Ohhhh yeah, wtahc out Airbus and Boing the E-190biz is coming out.

That will be a great jet to see, on the time MR. Lula bought the 319ACJ there talks about the 190Biz for domestic flights, the same thing the 732 do today.
Hope they get a few.
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EMBQA
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RE: Embraer To Unveil New Business Jet In 3 Months

Wed Apr 06, 2005 10:31 pm

Ohhhh yeah, watch Airbus and Boing...the E-190biz is coming out.

Since when does a Embraer 190 weigh less then 10,000lbs...?? The VLJ aircraft are very small and carry less then 10 people. This will be a completely new aircraft and design.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
erikwilliam
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RE: Embraer To Unveil New Business Jet In 3 Months

Thu Apr 07, 2005 5:18 am

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 3):
Since when does a Embraer 190 weigh less then 10,000lbs...?? The VLJ aircraft are very small and carry less then 10 people. This will be a completely new aircraft and design.

ehehehe, U got me there, I haven´t read the entire thing, I just assumed it would be from the 190 family.
But that would be great hã?!

Thx man  Wink
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AirbusCanada
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RE: Embraer To Unveil New Business Jet In 3 Months

Thu Apr 07, 2005 6:47 am

It will be competing with jets like learjet and Cesna jets.
 
gothamspotter
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RE: Embraer To Unveil New Business Jet In 3 Months

Thu Apr 07, 2005 7:13 am

Quoting AirbusCanada (Reply 5):
It will be competing with jets like learjet and Cesna jets.

And HondaJet!
 
mrocktor
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RE: Embraer To Unveil New Business Jet In 3 Months

Thu Apr 07, 2005 11:05 pm

Quoting GothamSpotter (Reply 6):
And HondaJet!

The Honda jet is not a commercial product, its a testbed for their engines.
 
PPVRA
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RE: Embraer To Unveil New Business Jet In 3 Months

Fri Apr 08, 2005 6:25 am

Quick off topic question for someone at Embraer (Mrocktor/Vector only ones I know here that do):

How long does it take to built the E190 from ground up? Does it take significant longer than the other E-series? What about the Legacy and the ERJ145?

Thanks,
PPVRA
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
CRJonBeez
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RE: Embraer To Unveil New Business Jet In 3 Months

Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:55 pm

Quoting AirbusCanada (Reply 5):

if the embraer in question is indeed a VLJ, lear will not be the competition, their jets are too large to be compared. competition would come in the form of the CJ1, the mustang, a700, and a few others that seem to be crawling out of the wood work as a new trend in GA jets pops out from around the corner in the following years.

as long as we're on the topic of embraer, does it bother anybody else that the legacy has the airline style windows? i'm sure the requirements in rearranging the windows would greatly outweigh the benefits of leaving it as it is, but those windows kill me! personally, i feel the gulfstreams take one a much better appearance with the large, oval windows versus the multiple window airline type. same with the global express!  Angry
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Embraer To Unveil New Business Jet In 3 Months

Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:13 pm

Quoting Erikwilliam (Reply 2):
Ohhhh yeah, wtahc out Airbus and Boing the E-190biz is coming out.

Actually, I bet a E170biz would be the way they'd start. Add a cargo fuel tank (a la Legacy). The only question is, could they get trans Atlantic range.

Quoting GothamSpotter (Reply 6):

And HondaJet!

While its only a testbed right now, I expect Honda will re-engineer the Honda jet for production within the next two years.

Back on topic: For Embraer to get orders from netjets or the other large biz jet buyers, they need a more complete line up. Right now the VLJ market looks to be getting crowded. But maybe they could pull it off. Its almost like Embraer wants to kick Bombardier out of the business!  duck  Why didn't Bombardier do a CRJ based bussiness jet? I just don't see how a limited production biz jet could compete on price with a mass produced airframe in terms of cost. Development costs are about the same for a new plane as the cost to manufacture the first 200 jets.  dollarsign  Since biz jets tend to have runs of less than 400...

Lightsaber
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CRJonBeez
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RE: Embraer To Unveil New Business Jet In 3 Months

Fri Apr 08, 2005 4:47 pm

lightsaber, don't forget that bombardier has already released several variants of the challenger; 600, 601, 604, and the new 300. for being a relatively new entry to the market, i've seen quite a few CL30s where i work. on top of the challenger line, the challenger 800 executive is available for preview on the bombardier website. it is a corporate setup of the CRJ2 (think 328 biz jet/E135 legacy). beyond the RJ set up, you have the always popular learjet family, the global express and it's little brother, the global 5000.

when it comes to fractional companies, net jets seems happy with their falcon and gulfstream fleet. i suppose flight options may have an interest in the 800, but as it stands, they're currently flying the legacy and i don't personally see the CRJ Exec. being a possibility any time in the near future for options.

i don't think bombardier will do that well with the 800, but i've been wrong before. i think they should put more work in pushing the aircraft with FlexJet before venturing outside to the other companies.

[Edited 2005-04-08 10:02:40]
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Embraer To Unveil New Business Jet In 3 Months

Fri Apr 08, 2005 5:56 pm

Quoting CRJonBeez (Reply 11):
i don't think bombardier will do that well with the 800, but i've been wrong before. i think they should put more work in pushing the aircraft with FlexJet before venturing outside to the other companies.

CRJonBeez, While Bombardier might not sell many 800's, it seems like the cost is low and thus the profits should be good. I do agree, with half the business jets going to the fractional companies, both Bombardier and Embraer just cannot ignore them.

You are right that Bombardier has a much stronger business jet lineup. I was being a bit facetious that Embraer could knock them out of the business, at least this decade...

Lightsaber
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PPVRA
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RE: Embraer To Unveil New Business Jet In 3 Months

Sat Apr 09, 2005 2:09 am

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 8):
What about the Legacy and the ERJ145?

I meant to say the ERJ135... sorry.

One more question for you guys more aware of the BizJet market, how would an ERJ-145 BizJet do? Would it make any sense?

Thanks,
PPVRA

[Edited 2005-04-08 19:10:07]
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: Embraer To Unveil New Business Jet In 3 Months

Sat Apr 09, 2005 5:06 am

A VLA maybe, but I seriously doubt they will start up a "Legacy" on the 170/190 platform. To do so, I'm sure they would mate a 190 wing to the 170 fuselage, then add extra aux tanks. I have no idea what kind of range that would give the aircraft, but it should be able to cross the pond with ease and then some.
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
CRJonBeez
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RE: Embraer To Unveil New Business Jet In 3 Months

Tue Apr 12, 2005 10:57 am

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 13):

personally, i believe for a widebody bizjet to succeed in the market, you need to prove your worth more to owners/operators of the current big dogs, your gulfstreams and falcon lineup. both have a strong foothold in the door and don't seem to be going anywhere soon. it's an awfully tough market to break through when you already have such large companies that have dominated the field for so long. to put it modestly, i would be extremely surprised if embraer succeeded in the business sector of aviation. unless they have a plan to enter the market with a whole new approach to the industry, they will struggle to stay afloat. the e135 seemed like a decent idea at first, but i've heard from several pilots the hassles with the "comfort factor" compared to something like a gulfstream.

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 12):

i wouldn't count on it quite yet. i understand what you're saying, but like i said above, you have to match the demand. the crj has proven itself to be a strong competitor in the regional market, but that means nothing in an entirely different world of bizjets. you now must consider operating costs to companies that specifically work ONLY with large private jets. history in a specific area proves to be a strong argument no matter what business you're involved in.

working for an FBO, i've seen quite the array of aircraft, from the grumman lynx, to the overkill of a private jet people call a boeing business jet. of all the private aircraft i've seen, i have yet to see the CRJ biz conversion and the only reason i see E135 legacies are because of our previous affiliation with flight options, who use them as their flagship carrier.