luisde8cd
Posts: 2444
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:02 am

AR: FAA Makes Exception & Lets 744s Fly To The U.S

Sun Apr 03, 2005 12:34 am

Since Argentina is labeled Category 2 by the FAA, LV registered planes cannot fly commercial flights to the US. Foreign airlines from Cat2 countries have to wet-lease planes with Cat1 countries regs and foreign crews in order to be allowed to fly to the US.

This exception made by the FAA was done after a complete and throughout research of AR's ops.

Source (Spanish):

http://www.unionradio.com.ve/Noticias/Noticia.aspx?NoticiaId=134167


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Javier Guerrero
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ander Aguirre

 
KFLLCFII
Posts: 3185
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 7:08 am

RE: AR: FAA Makes Exception & Lets 744s Fly To The U.S

Sun Apr 03, 2005 1:23 am

Any idea of which airports they will serve?
"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
 
luisde8cd
Posts: 2444
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:02 am

RE: AR: FAA Makes Exception & Lets 744s Fly To The U.S

Sun Apr 03, 2005 1:24 am

Quoting KFLLCFII (Reply 1):
Any idea of which airports they will serve?

JFK and MIA
 
User avatar
Flying Belgian
Posts: 1908
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 12:45 am

RE: AR: FAA Makes Exception & Lets 744s Fly To The U.S

Sun Apr 03, 2005 1:52 am

What's the safety issue with AR ??

Any incidents in the US previously ?
Life is great at 41.000 feet...
 
ahlfors
Posts: 1281
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2000 1:44 am

RE: AR: FAA Makes Exception & Lets 744s Fly To The U.S

Sun Apr 03, 2005 1:59 am

Who else thinks the FAA Category 2 rules on aircraft are counter-productive. When a country goes Category 2, its airlines are allowed to continue current flights to US, under extra surveillance. However, the airlines are not allowed to add/change routes or even change the aircraft operating a route. End result: foreign airlines are forced to fly OLDER planes because they can't replace their old planes flying to the US with newer, more safe planes. Who came up with this stupidity.
 
AlitaliaMD11
Posts: 3704
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:19 am

RE: AR: FAA Makes Exception & Lets 744s Fly To The U.S

Sun Apr 03, 2005 2:05 am

What will fly to MAD then, the old B747-200s?

I saw a AR B747-200 today at MAD
No Vueling No Party
 
dcajet
Posts: 693
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

RE: AR: FAA Makes Exception & Lets 744s Fly To The U.S

Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:44 am

Quote:
Since Argentina is labeled Category 2 by the FAA, LV registered planes cannot fly commercial flights to the US.

That is not entirely accurate: Under Cat. 2 rules, any airline from a Cat. 2 labeled country that wishes to initiate service to the US is not allowed to do so, unless it leases planes with Cat. 1 countries reg and foreign crews in order to be allowed to fly to the US (the latter is not completely allowed under Argentinean law, it would have to be a combination of local+foreign crew (as it was the case when Southern Winds flew to Miami: Air Atlanta+A4 crew)). HOWEVER, in the case of existing service , such as AR (since 1950!!), it is restricted to the existing destinations (JFK, MIA) and may not change equipment. Aerolineas won approval to add the 744 fleet to the existing 742 and 340 flights, to both MIA & JFK. AR's been wanting to return to LAX (it pulled out of it in 2000, when it went into Argentina's equivalent of Chapter 11 "Concurso Preventivo de Acreedores", but still holds the authority to fly there). AR began flying to LAX in 1969 with 707s and moved on to 742 and 310 in the 80s and 90s.

I suppose the question is why is Argentina in Cat II (since 2002)? Sources in B. Aires say this has a lot to do with the cancellation of the Open Skies agreement between the US and Argentina, in 2001, and very little to do with Commercial Aviation Oversight by the Argentinean authorities. Unfortunately for Argentina, the current Kirchner administration has no commercial aviation policy whatsoever: therefore the issue seems not to be a top priority for them (and since it directly affects Aerolineas, then it less of an urgency, given the little love lost between AR and the Kirchner administration). In the meantime, AA adds a daily flight to EZE from DFW, a third AA MIA daily is in the works, UA adds a second daily service, this time from ORD, and DL returns to EZE from ATL, daily. It seems the only beneficiary from this silly policy are the US carriers: it shows when a government cares about their airlines (US) and the Argentinean approach (we give a toss...)

My .02 cents from DC!!!!
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
Yu138086
Posts: 163
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2003 12:09 pm

RE: AR: FAA Makes Exception & Lets 744s Fly To The U.S

Sun Apr 10, 2005 8:24 am

The decision to downgrade AR to Cat2 was largely political and came shortly after Argentina's currency devaluation in 2001. Now that Argentina is "up from the ashes" and out of default good things start happeneing.
Cat2 was also used to coerce AR into buying Boeing aircraft instead of Airbus for any future type of fleet renewal. It was carrot and stick politics by the US govnt through the FAA.

PS. Are you all aware that each week AR much transfer US$55K to an escrow account in New York because the US legacy carriers protested AR's payment of EZE landing fees in ARG Pesos while the Americans had to pay in US dollars? ... Current balance is approx. $US6 million and growing.
 
luisde8cd
Posts: 2444
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:02 am

RE: AR: FAA Makes Exception & Lets 744s Fly To The U.S

Sun Apr 10, 2005 9:50 am

Quoting DCAjet (Reply 6):
That is not entirely accurate: Under Cat. 2 rules, any airline from a Cat. 2 labeled country that wishes to initiate service to the US is not allowed to do so, unless it leases planes with Cat. 1 countries reg and foreign crews in order to be allowed to fly to the US

Did u read completely my post? I think I said just that...
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24723
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: AR: FAA Makes Exception & Lets 744s Fly To The U.S

Sun Apr 10, 2005 11:12 am

Quoting DCAjet (Reply 6):
UA adds a second daily service, this time from ORD,

UA has reduced service to Argentina since it was Cat II. They used to offer dailies from Miami, O'Hare, and JFK. Now they offer two daily flights, Dulles and O'Hare.
a.
 
Marambio
Posts: 1145
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 9:41 am

RE: AR: FAA Makes Exception & Lets 744s Fly To The U.S

Sun Apr 10, 2005 11:40 am

Good evening gentlemen,

Just let me clarify some things on this thread.

The FAA has conceded AR this exceptional authorization mainly because the airline has sent its pilots to UA's facilities in Denver to gain some type-rating. AR is not going to use these planes for their MIA and JFK operations, but gains some flexibility for the eventual case of an unscheduled equipment change on those flights. The A340s (which are used for all the US-flights) have a very tight schedule and when one of them is not available usually a 747-200 is used to replace it. As AR currently only has two 742s, the permission to operate the 744s is good flexibilitywise only.

Actually it would be more useful to get the same permission for the A310s, since AR's project is to increase MIA to daily using A310s (at least on some of the frequencies), but who knows if that's going to happen.

Saludos,
Marambio
Aerolíneas Argentinas - La Argentina que levanta vuelo
 
luisde8cd
Posts: 2444
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:02 am

RE: AR: FAA Makes Exception & Lets 744s Fly To The U.S

Sun Apr 10, 2005 2:59 pm

Quoting Marambio (Reply 10):
is to increase MIA to daily using A310s

What's AR weekly frequency to MIA?
 
LVZXV
Posts: 1729
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:03 am

RE: AR: FAA Makes Exception & Lets 744s Fly To The U.S

Sun Apr 10, 2005 3:07 pm

Kirchner's problem with anything that flies is far simpler than it looks:

He's a flipping PENGUIN, and a jackass* one at that!!!

Saludos,

ZXV

*actually another name for Magellanic penguins.
How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
dcajet
Posts: 693
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

RE: AR: FAA Makes Exception & Lets 744s Fly To The U.S

Mon Apr 11, 2005 1:55 am

Quote:
UA has reduced service to Argentina since it was Cat II. They used to offer dailies from Miami, O'Hare, and JFK. Now they offer two daily flights, Dulles and O'Hare.

Indeed, UA has reduced service to EZE, but not as a result of Argentina's Cat. II, but rather, as a result of their trip to Chapter 11, among other things. All service out of Miami into Brazil and Argentina has been withdrawn, as part of their reorganization - only domestic services are flown into MIA these days. All JFK flights to GRU & EZE were moved to IAD, as UA operates a hub there, so, while O&D traffic may be less, there are far more opportunities to connect. And it proved the right thing to do on both moves: flights to GRU & EZE from either ORD & IAD are a success both from yields and occ. factors, while RG, their Star Alliance partner, can take care of JFK & MIA.
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
Marambio
Posts: 1145
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 9:41 am

RE: AR: FAA Makes Exception & Lets 744s Fly To The U.S

Mon Apr 11, 2005 9:36 am

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 11):
What's AR weekly frequency to MIA?

AR flies EZE-MIA 4x weekly.

Saludos,
Marambio
Aerolíneas Argentinas - La Argentina que levanta vuelo

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos