Boeing Nut
Topic Author
Posts: 5078
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2001 2:42 am

Turboprop & RJ Takeoff Performance? - Aggravation

Tue Apr 05, 2005 1:41 am

I hope I am not out of bounds asking this, but it seems ridiculous to me. So there must be a reason why this occurs. I work at STL for the airport authority. We have three runways.
1 - 12R/30L, an 11,019 ft runway.
2 - 12L/30R, a 9,003 ft. runway.
3 - 6/24 a 7,602 ft runway.

I hear requests for jetstream 41's and several RJ's that they want runway 12R/30L for takeoff performance reasons stating that 12L/30R is too short. (heavy) The aggravating thing is that 99% of the time, these aircraft rotate near the halfway point of 12R/30L which leaves nearly 5,000 ft of runway. If 12L/30R was used they still would have 2,000-3,000 feet of runway left.

Is this for rejected takeoff reasons? I was under the impression that once you rotate, you're airborne no matter what happens.

Someone please make some sense of this for me because I think it's stupid why a regional aircraft needs an 11,000 foot runway when a 9,000 footer is more than enough.

[Edited 2005-04-04 18:42:40]
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
pilotpip
Posts: 2820
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 3:26 pm

RE: Turboprop & RJ Takeoff Performance? - Aggravation

Tue Apr 05, 2005 1:52 am

TSA won't do intersecton departures. It's against their ops specs from what I have heard. Maybe those things require a large balanced field length or because of the intersection of the south runway with 6/24. All just speculation. Then again, they might just be looking for a shorter taxi route.

You guys having fun carting Signature around to pick up their planes littered all over the field?  Smile
DMI
 
kcrwflyer
Posts: 2528
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 11:57 am

RE: Turboprop & RJ Takeoff Performance? - Aggravation

Tue Apr 05, 2005 1:54 am

well, for thrust settings on takeoffs, we all know they could get up in less than 6,000. But rules require that there has to be a certaim amount of runway to use a certain amount of thrust.also airline policies. And if your talking about CRJ's.... if theyre full pax and fuel it does take them a good bit to get up.

I think thats the right answer.. somone correct me please.
 
Boeing Nut
Topic Author
Posts: 5078
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2001 2:42 am

RE: Turboprop & RJ Takeoff Performance? - Aggravation

Tue Apr 05, 2005 1:54 am

Quoting Pilotpip (Reply 1):
You guys having fun carting Signature around to pick up their planes littered all over the field?

Loads.
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
Boeing Nut
Topic Author
Posts: 5078
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2001 2:42 am

RE: Turboprop & RJ Takeoff Performance? - Aggravation

Tue Apr 05, 2005 1:57 am

Quoting Pilotpip (Reply 1):
TSA won't do intersecton departures.

Hmmm, well, that confuses me even more then. They still are using full length for either runway.  scratchchin 
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
kcrwflyer
Posts: 2528
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 11:57 am

RE: Turboprop & RJ Takeoff Performance? - Aggravation

Tue Apr 05, 2005 2:03 am

since when do they not to intersection departures?PHl does them all the time to avoid interfering with arrivals on rwy 27/9 R and L
 
flightopsguy
Posts: 299
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 9:51 am

RE: Turboprop & RJ Takeoff Performance? - Aggravation

Tue Apr 05, 2005 2:09 am

It could be a performance limit (second stage of climb), but my narowbodies show a lower allowable gross weight on 30R as a runway limit, so maybe there is a close-in obstacle. I would assume they use balanced field length weights, where accelerate stop and accelerate go are the same number and V1 is right next to Vr. Interestingly, even 30L does not show full structural limit as the allowable.

ML Redtail
A300-330 BAC111/146/J31/41 B99/1900 CV580 B707-777 DC8/9/10 L188/1011 FH227/28/100 SB340 DO228 EMB2/170 CR2-900 SH330-60
 
pilotpip
Posts: 2820
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 3:26 pm

RE: Turboprop & RJ Takeoff Performance? - Aggravation

Wed Apr 06, 2005 6:05 am

By TSA I mean the airline. They don't do them. Other airlines at STL will do intersection departures where needed.
DMI
 
kcrwflyer
Posts: 2528
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 11:57 am

RE: Turboprop & RJ Takeoff Performance? - Aggravation

Wed Apr 06, 2005 6:18 am

ohhhhhhhm trans states. sorry, i dont know what i was thinking about.

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