PPVRA
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GOL Makes Proposal To Buy Varig.

Tue Apr 05, 2005 10:32 pm

Looks like Varig is attracting quite a bit of attention-- yesterday GOL turned in a proposal to Mr. Martins, RG's CEO, for the control of the airline. The proposal is reported to be currently under scrutiny and no more information was available as of yet.

This brings a total of four potential investors, German Efromovich (Ocean Air), Nélson Tanure (Jornal do Brasil), EuroAtlantic/Pestana group, and another (Portuguese) that has remained unnamed.

http://advillage.uol.com.br/adCmsDoc...Show.aspx?documento=12252&Area=728

Cheers,
PPVRA
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
hardiwv
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RE: GOL Makes Proposal To Buy Varig.

Tue Apr 05, 2005 10:53 pm

PPVRA:

Tks for the breaking news.

VARIG is an airline with great potential, but it lacks management (something GOL has to offer!).

GOL and RG would make a perfect combination, with two different types of products in the market. GOL also has a fleet compatible with RG (both operate a fleet of all-Boeing aircraft), and 20% of GOL is owned by one of RG's major foreign creditors: ILC. It seems an interesting possibility.

Rgs,
 
glennpower
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RE: GOL Makes Proposal To Buy Varig.

Tue Apr 05, 2005 11:18 pm

Hardiw,

Breaking news

Check the tam flights thread,i posted message about GOL interested in RG a whole 7 minutes before PPVRA.

cheers.
 
PPVRA
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RE: GOL Makes Proposal To Buy Varig.

Tue Apr 05, 2005 11:44 pm

Quoting Glennpower (Reply 2):
Check the tam flights thread,i posted message about GOL interested in RG a whole 7 minutes before PPVRA.

Oh man! a whole 7 minutes? Sorry, I only saw your post after I posted this one  Wink

Cheers,
PPVRA
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
erikwilliam
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RE: GOL Makes Proposal To Buy Varig.

Tue Apr 05, 2005 11:54 pm

A thing to remember, if GOL buys Varig, then we would have a compny with more than 50% of market share, and by the regulating laws of CADE, it can not happen, but let´s not forget what happend with AMBEV, when they join, the government gave them the approval, and we had a company with almost 70% of the market.
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PPVRA
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RE: GOL Makes Proposal To Buy Varig.

Tue Apr 05, 2005 11:54 pm

More news on it:

Now GOL is saying that an eventual acquisition of RG would only happen if RG agreed to change to an Low cost/low fare philosophy.

IMHO, that completely shut the door for GOL, but we'll see.... my hopes are still with Efromovich though.

Cheers,
PPVRA
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
hardiwv
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RE: GOL Makes Proposal To Buy Varig.

Tue Apr 05, 2005 11:55 pm

Quoting Erikwilliam (Reply 4):
if GOL buys Varig, then we would have a compny with more than 50% of market share, and by the regulating laws of CADE, it can not happen,

RG already had more than 70% market share in Brazil...I dont think CADE will be a problem...
 
erikwilliam
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RE: GOL Makes Proposal To Buy Varig.

Tue Apr 05, 2005 11:58 pm

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 5):
IMHO, that completely shut the door for GOL, but we'll see.... my hopes are still with Efromovich though.

that´s what I posted on the TAM thread, GOL buying Varig is just a nonsense that goes against all of GOL´s philosofhy, unless we had a low cost flight to JFK with the 777, only peanuts and a small cheese and ham bread on the flight.
Dida, Cafu, Lucio, Roque Junior, Roberto Carlo, Emerson, Ze Roberto, Ronaldinho, Kaka, Adriano, Robinho, Ronaldo
 
hardiwv
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RE: GOL Makes Proposal To Buy Varig.

Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:03 am

Quoting Erikwilliam (Reply 7):
GOL buying Varig is just a nonsense that goes against all of GOL´s philosofhy

I dont agree. There are many legacy carriers which also have their own LCC (e.g. KLM and Transavia or UA and Ted). They operate under two different business models. The other way around could also happen: a LCC managing a legacy carrier. I dont think GOL would change RG product, on the contrary, the airlines would operate as separate carriers, but under one management structure. It would be the perfect way out for RG to keep its corporate identity.

I still think that GOL and RG could be a perfect match.

Rgs,
 
glennpower
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RE: GOL Makes Proposal To Buy Varig.

Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:04 am

PPVRA,

Glad you have a sense of humour,I enjoy reading your posts along with erikwilliam,JJMNGR,incitatus and Hardiwv.

Best wishes to you all.
 
PPVRA
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RE: GOL Makes Proposal To Buy Varig.

Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:04 am

Quoting Erikwilliam (Reply 7):
that´s what I posted on the TAM thread, GOL buying Varig is just a nonsense that goes against all of GOL´s philosofhy, unless we had a low cost flight to JFK with the 777, only peanuts and a small cheese and ham bread on the flight.

They could do like VS does-- long haul service airline and local LCCs for domestic/intra-european flights.

As I see, the problem will be with FRB approving this, I doubt they ever would agree to turn RG into an LCC (that doesn't sound right either).

Cheers,
PPVRA

Edit: I enjoy your posts as well, Glenn!
Edit2: Good point Hardi!

[Edited 2005-04-05 17:07:38]
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erikwilliam
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RE: GOL Makes Proposal To Buy Varig.

Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:10 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 6):
RG already had more than 70% market share in Brazil...I dont think CADE will be a problem...

No they don´t. They have it in intl flights.
Also, if U grown from natural basis to 99,99% of the market lucky you, but U can not buy a company and then have more then 50% of the market.

There lays the problem.
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hardiwv
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RE: GOL Makes Proposal To Buy Varig.

Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:15 am

Quoting Erikwilliam (Reply 11):
No they don´t. They have it in intl flights

RG had domestic market share of about 70% in the past (combining at the time Cruzeiro'as take over, Rio Sul and Nordeste). If I'm not mistaken RG even reached a peak domestic market share of almost 80%.

Of course, RG's international market share at one time was close to 100% and now is about 83%.

Rgs,
 
erikwilliam
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RE: GOL Makes Proposal To Buy Varig.

Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:22 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 12):
RG had domestic market share of about 70% in the past (combining at the time Cruzeiro'as take over, Rio Sul and Nordeste). If I'm not mistaken RG even reached a peak domestic market share of almost 80%.

But they had it because they were the oldest company in the country, that grew alone, without competition, it´s not their fault if nobody wants to enter the market.
That´s why CADE has been created, to regulate.
Can give U an example, Nestlé is trying to buy GAROTO, a brazilian chocolate manufacturer. CADE is not allowing them, they even demanded Nestlé to sell Garoto, otherwise, they´d have to pay several fines and face a lawsuit.
But in the meantime, Nestlé is f**ing up the brand, and the family that owned Garoto alredy spent the money, and as they can´t return it to Nestlé, Nestlé will have to sell the company. Hope I made myself explanatory, it can be a bit confusing sometimes.
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PPVRA
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RE: GOL Makes Proposal To Buy Varig.

Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:27 am

Question:

Did Varig, Rio Sul and Nordeste count as one airline or three? If it counted as three, then GOL and Varig could keep their separate identities and still be legal under the law. Anyone knows if that would be possible?

Thanks in advance,
PPVRA
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incitatus
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RE: GOL Makes Proposal To Buy Varig.

Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:28 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 8):
I still think that GOL and RG could be a perfect match.

Gol would bring cost controls and planning sanity to Varig.
I heard a story about the RG pilots that are qualified to fly the 737NGs. Varig tries to keep a single pool of 737 pilots, but not all of them are NG rated.
Sometimes a plane is grounded for lack of qualified pilots until someone can deadhead to get it going again. There are only 3 or 4 NG 737s and about 30 non-NGs.
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erikwilliam
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RE: GOL Makes Proposal To Buy Varig.

Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:32 am

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 10):
They could do like VS does-- long haul service airline and local LCCs for domestic/intra-european flights.

Now, that would be amazing, just amazing, and still be on StarAlliance, just fabulous.

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 10):
As I see, the problem will be with FRB approving this, I doubt they ever would agree to turn RG into an LCC (that doesn't sound right either).

Agreed, I don´t think FRB even aproves to change the paint colour of the walls, what can say about selling Varig.

I think they´re just waiting for the situation the get worse and worse and then to pressure the government with employments and all those talks, sorry, but I can´t think of a diferent scenario there.
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erikwilliam
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RE: GOL Makes Proposal To Buy Varig.

Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:41 am

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 14):
Did Varig, Rio Sul and Nordeste count as one airline or three? If it counted as three, then GOL and Varig could keep their separate identities and still be legal under the law. Anyone knows if that would be possible?

If I´m not mistaken, there´s no more of these companies, just some planes in the colours etc.
In 03, when the talks of merger began, that was one point, not to have the 3 companies diference.
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N1120A
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RE: GOL Makes Proposal To Buy Varig.

Wed Apr 06, 2005 1:03 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 8):
There are many legacy carriers which also have their own LCC (e.g. KLM and Transavia or UA and Ted).

While I agree with Transavia, Ted is definately not an LCC. Still, I think you are right that GOL's management can help RG's horrible state. I think the key there is GOL maintaining the low cost domestic ops while actually upgrading RG's product on international. Also, they would be wise to maintain the RG identity.

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 15):
I heard a story about the RG pilots that are qualified to fly the 737NGs. Varig tries to keep a single pool of 737 pilots, but not all of them are NG rated.

If you have the cockpit on the NG programmed correctly, any 737 pilot can fly any 737, 300-900 and the 100 or 200 with slight differences training.
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RE: GOL Makes Proposal To Buy Varig.

Wed Apr 06, 2005 4:08 am

Also, QF have Jetstar as an LCC which seems to be working well so far.

Back OT and excuse me if my questions appear naive to those more knowledgeable than I.

If GOL could retain it's low domestic cost's and aquire RG what will be the real impact on International operations? GOL has the Capital and their model is working well. If applied to RGs International operations, How much in cost benefits could they obtain, if any, and would they likely keep the current Long Haul fleet or add more of what they operate, or perhaps a new model to help uprgade the International product?

Understand GOL is one of 4 bidders so early days but thoughts appreciated.

Regards
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incitatus
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RE: GOL Makes Proposal To Buy Varig.

Wed Apr 06, 2005 11:51 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 18):
If you have the cockpit on the NG programmed correctly, any 737 pilot can fly any 737, 300-900 and the 100 or 200 with slight differences training.

At Varig not all pilots are qualified to fly the NGs.
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PPVRA
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RE: GOL Makes Proposal To Buy Varig.

Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:24 pm

PANAM_DC10,

Quoting PANAM_DC10 (Reply 19):
If GOL could retain it's low domestic costs and aquire RG what will be the real impact on International operations? GOL has the Capital and their model is working well. If applied to RGs International operations, How much in cost benefits could they obtain, if any, and would they likely keep the current Long Haul fleet or add more of what they operate, or perhaps a new model to help uprgade the International product?

depends whether your talking about them keeping RG as a service airline or turn them into an LCC. If you mean as an LCC, then I have no idea. But if they keep at least the international as service, operations wise, I don't think there should be much impact at all.

One interesting (puzzling?) aspect about Varig is that they are never the cheapest airline to fly international (at least most of the time), they seem to always be able to have good loads even though their product has deteriorated a lot in the past few years. I'm sure there would be some capacity trimming and all.

As for the fleet, I would think the MD-11s would go out the window (maybe over to VarigLog) in a short time due to their not so optimal fuel efficiency. B777s would probably stay and replace the MDs, at least I would hope so  Smile . Or they could order 787s/A350s to replace the 'heavy' 772s and/or 763s. Not sure on the fate of the 752s though, would be interesting to see what becomes of them.

Anyways, just my thoughts...

Cheers,
PPVRA
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JJMNGR
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RE: GOL Makes Proposal To Buy Varig.

Wed Apr 06, 2005 10:51 pm

I would love to see GOL putting their money on a lost cause...
 
JJMNGR
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RE: GOL Makes Proposal To Buy Varig.

Wed Apr 06, 2005 10:54 pm

By the way GOL formally denied their intention....maybe it was a gossip posted by RG to see if someone cares about them...hahaha
 
incitatus
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RE: GOL Makes Proposal To Buy Varig.

Wed Apr 06, 2005 11:19 pm

Quoting JJMNGR (Reply 22):
I would love to see GOL putting their money on a lost cause...

It could go the other way too with Gol + Varig and the new BRA squeezing TAM out of the market.

BTW, BRA is a hilarious name for an airline... Can I have seat number 34 C please....? Yes, right next to the 34 B lady...!  silly 
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RE: GOL Makes Proposal To Buy Varig.

Wed Apr 06, 2005 11:28 pm

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 21):
depends whether your talking about them keeping RG as a service airline or turn them into an LCC. If you mean as an LCC, then I have no idea. But if they keep at least the international as service, operations wise, I don't think there should be much impact at all.

Thanks for the answer PPVRA. You got my point and that was that they don't go LCC on Intl but take over a "legacy" for Intl market share etc. I usually associate that term with high cost base and that's why I actually think it may not be such a bad idea if the cost savings could be realised.

Anyway, seems like they've denied it now though thank you again for your reply.

Regards

PANAM_DC10
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PPVRA
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RE: GOL Makes Proposal To Buy Varig.

Thu Apr 07, 2005 2:10 am

No problem PANAM_DC10!

The deal with the "denial" is that they would only acquire RG if RG goes LCC, GOL is still on the negotiating table however likely/unlikely this deal might end on something.

Cheers,
PPVRA
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GaleaoCumbica
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RE: GOL Makes Proposal To Buy Varig.

Thu Apr 07, 2005 7:27 am

Hi all!

After a long time, I am back.
Just a few words.
I do want to see VARIG flying around as they are not as bad as many people say.
I flew TAM a few times in the past before moving to London. Last year I went to Brazil for holidays and also traveled to the north part of the country flying with TAM (codeshare with RG).
Sorry to say, but service was terrible.
I flew GRU-REC with TAM's A330 and the plane was dirty inside, F/A very rude and also spending all their time on the back of the plane.
Flight from GRU to REC is around 3 hours and the only food served was 2 "torradas" (toasted bread), a small cake and a tiny cheese.
After that, I took another flight from Recife to the island Fernando de Noronha, now with VARIG and service was great. 40 minutes flight only, hot cheese and ham sandwich, goods drinks, very happy crew.
I know I am changing the subject, but please stop saying things that are not true!
Keep flying Varig!!
 
PPVRA
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RE: GOL Makes Proposal To Buy Varig.

Thu Apr 07, 2005 7:34 am

Quoting GaleaoCumbica (Reply 27):
After that, I took another flight from Recife to the island Fernando de Noronha, now with VARIG and service was great. 40 minutes flight only, hot cheese and ham sandwich, goods drinks, very happy crew.

Plus you get that round-the-island flight tour  Smile

Cheers,
PPVRA
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incitatus
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RE: GOL Makes Proposal To Buy Varig.

Thu Apr 07, 2005 11:08 am

Quoting GaleaoCumbica (Reply 27):
Sorry to say, but service was terrible.
I flew GRU-REC with TAM's A330 and the plane was dirty inside, F/A very rude and also spending all their time on the back of the plane.
Flight from GRU to REC is around 3 hours and the only food served was 2 "torradas" (toasted bread), a small cake and a tiny cheese.
After that, I took another flight from Recife to the island Fernando de Noronha, now with VARIG and service was great. 40 minutes flight only, hot cheese and ham sandwich, goods drinks, very happy crew.

Is food the main item to determine if service was good or not? I think #1 is to be on-time - or ahead a few minutes if possible. Include in it time to get bags off the carousel, if any were checked in. #2 was mentioned - the plane has to be clean and the interior can't be falling apart. Only then would I look at munchies.
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PPVRA
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RE: GOL Makes Proposal To Buy Varig.

Thu Apr 07, 2005 12:04 pm

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 29):
Is food the main item to determine if service was good or not? I think #1 is to be on-time - or ahead a few minutes if possible. Include in it time to get bags off the carousel, if any were checked in. #2 was mentioned - the plane has to be clean and the interior can't be falling apart. Only then would I look at munchies.

A well fed pax is a happy pax. The rest might shave off some of the experience, but the net total can still be positive  Wink

Cheers,
PPVRA
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backfire
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RE: GOL Makes Proposal To Buy Varig.

Thu Apr 07, 2005 6:42 pm

Quoting Glennpower (Reply 2):
Check the tam flights thread,i posted message about GOL interested in RG a whole 7 minutes before PPVRA.

Speed means nothing without accuracy.  Wink
 
JJMNGR
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RE: GOL Makes Proposal To Buy Varig.

Thu Apr 07, 2005 9:59 pm

It is incredible how some concepts about what is good or not is delicated. Singapore airlines which is worldwide known as one of the best services for example. Beyond this, would it be true that a pax never had a bad experience?
To have a bad experience is something could happen with everybody in every flight at any airline. I myself had some bad experiences flying on TAM...but was not something to say that it is worse that many others. By the way, the airline is well known for provide a good service most of the time.

Another thing it is funny. TAM was forces to review some concepts in terms ofin flight service as part of the market adjustments after GOL entered in the market. As so as RG did.
When a pax flies on TAM and the meal is resumed in some toasts and juice, etc...TAM receives a lot of comments.
The same pax, flying on GOL and eating candy bars it is something perfect and nobody complain...

I flew AA GRU/MIA/CUN once as a F class pax. GRU/MIA was ok, like every F class service. MIA/CUN they offered me a cup of coffee and a bow with a banana. Why people do not complain about this kind of thing?
Because the American people consider an aircraft a mean of transportation, and the airline the service provider. They don´t catch a flight to eat or to drink. They catch a flight to go from point A to point B.

I Brazil, still many people think that an aircraft is a restaurant and the F/A the waiter...my opinion it is a very old concept.
 
hardiwv
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RE: GOL Makes Proposal To Buy Varig.

Thu Apr 07, 2005 10:19 pm

Quoting JJMNGR (Reply 32):
I Brazil, still many people think that an aircraft is a restaurant and the F/A the waiter...my opinion it is a very old concept.

You are completely right.

However, overall TAM and RG could be more creative with their onboard service. KL recently adjusted their onboard service and came up with something very simple, but at the same time creative (they have an association for onboard catering with French franchise group Bon Pain). I am sure TAM and RG could also come up with something better compared to what they are currently offering on their domestic flights, which is very repetitive and unimaginative: the same option of sandwich in every single leg of the flight!

Rgs,
Hardi
 
erikwilliam
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RE: GOL Makes Proposal To Buy Varig.

Fri Apr 08, 2005 12:08 am

Galeao: we´re never arguiing about the service, we´re just saying that Varig is a broken company, wich apparently doesn´t seem to bother them too much, as they´re getting 2 747-400´s, and the options of buyers and what would happen with them. Just it.

Hardi, it´s all about costs, I remember flying on TAM CGH-SDU and they serving a hole meal, with knife and forks, not just a bread.
I´m pretty sure that in terms of competition, intl. carriers have better acess to money, interest rates to buy things as planes then the brazilian ones.

Quoting JJMNGR (Reply 32):
I Brazil, still many people think that an aircraft is a restaurant and the F/A the waiter...my opinion it is a very old concept.

I think that has something to do with air transport not beeing to everyone in here, as it´s quite expansive, different to the US, where more people have acess to fly on a plane. My guess tough
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JJMNGR
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RE: GOL Makes Proposal To Buy Varig.

Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:00 am

Hardi,

Last time I flew LH FRA/LHR F/A passed through the aisle hanging a basket with sandwiches (a french stile "baguete")...it was simple but nice...isn´t it this kind of thing you are suggesting?
I saw the same on a BA flight to CDG.

Erik,

You are right when you say air transport in Brazil is expensive. But the costs are the highest in the world. Taxes over the service provided is 36% while the average tax worldwide is 10%.
The impact of these costs on a company like TAM is a tremendous difference, much more that the others.
 
erikwilliam
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RE: GOL Makes Proposal To Buy Varig.

Fri Apr 08, 2005 2:01 am

Quoting JJMNGR (Reply 35):
You are right when you say air transport in Brazil is expensive. But the costs are the highest in the world. Taxes over the service provided is 36% while the average tax worldwide is 10%.
The impact of these costs on a company like TAM is a tremendous difference, much more that the others.

I do know that my man, belive me, I have a female clothes store in SP, it´s just outrageous how much we have to pay in taxes, the same with every single economy sector, besides banks, that realize just nonsense profits.
I´ve read Tam´s last balance sheet, just outrageos, U paid almost R$400.000.000,00 in taxes if I´m not mistaken.....just too much, just too much.
where does this money goes to?
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N1120A
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RE: GOL Makes Proposal To Buy Varig.

Fri Apr 08, 2005 2:11 am

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 20):
At Varig not all pilots are qualified to fly the NGs.

If they are not qualified to fly the NG, they are not qualified to fly any 737
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MATURRO727
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RE: GOL Makes Proposal To Buy Varig.

Fri Apr 08, 2005 4:09 am

Hey.


PPVRA: hey men, I don't understand why does people say what you just said, (This brings a total of four potential investors, German Efromovich (Ocean Air)) now I know that German Efromovich owns Ocean Air but what I know the biggest airline owned by Efromovich is AV right now so is it possible to put something like: This brings a total of four potential investors, German Efromovich (Avianca) or maybe something like: German Efromovich (Avianca, Ocean Air) etc .....

I don't know its my idea so...

REGARDS

MATURRO727
 
FMAL
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RE: GOL Makes Proposal To Buy Varig.

Fri Apr 08, 2005 4:12 am

What's this about Varig getting 2 747-400s? I heard this rumor before, but nothing ever happened.

As for the Gol proposal, they don't seam to be an actual contender, and I'm sure that all proposals for Varig include a clause that it will only be effective if the company gets its debts with the Brazilian Govt cleared out, something likely to happen since Varig on a lawsuit against the Govt for losses with different economy plans.

But any acquisition of Varig shouldn't change the philosophy of the airline, quite the contrary, it should reinstate the airline to its former level of world class service. That's what made Varig's name famous across the world.

As for the taxes, couldn't agree more. WHERE DOES THE MONEY GO? I have a pretty good guess of where that money ends.....
 
hardiwv
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RE: GOL Makes Proposal To Buy Varig.

Fri Apr 08, 2005 4:20 am

Quoting MATURRO727 (Reply 38):
German Efromovich (Ocean Air)) now I know that German Efromovich owns Ocean Air but what I know the biggest airline owned by Efromovich is AV

The information I have is that, in strictly legal terms, it was Ocean Air which actually bough AV. It happens that Efromovich owns Ocean Air, so he also owns AV.

Rgs,
 
incitatus
Posts: 2691
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:49 am

RE: GOL Makes Proposal To Buy Varig.

Fri Apr 08, 2005 2:00 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 37):
If they are not qualified to fly the NG, they are not qualified to fly any 737

That is not correct. A common type rating does not mean any pilot can fly any version. For example, one can't take a pilot that was trained to fly the 737-500 only and place him to fly a 737-900 without additional instruction.

That's the problem Varig has: not all 737 pilots received additional instruction to fly NGs.

The bigger family, 757/767, also has a common type rating. One can't take a 757-200 pilot and stick him in the cockpit of the 767-400 w/o additional instruction.
Stop pop up ads
 
JJMNGR
Posts: 924
Joined: Wed May 26, 2004 9:06 pm

RE: GOL Makes Proposal To Buy Varig.

Fri Apr 08, 2005 10:03 pm

Nobody is paying too much attention to the point that RG shouldn´t have credits to lease aircrafts...for how much the contracts are being made? 2 or 3 times the average market rate because of the risk?
Shouldn´t someone is making money over all this to guarantee the children milk in the future?

Again it comes abck to the point of bad management, bad administration...nobody cares about the company!!!
 
JJMNGR
Posts: 924
Joined: Wed May 26, 2004 9:06 pm

RE: GOL Makes Proposal To Buy Varig.

Fri Apr 08, 2005 10:09 pm

Erik,

You are right...TAM paid that much of taxes...
Now imagine that TAM has to compete in the market, with routes, equipments, staff, trainning, prices and everything and PAY THESE TAXES!!!

While the others simply don´t pay taxes, don´t pay nothing...and are still flying...(GOL is out of this observation, ok?)....this Government is ridiculous....

What to expect from a Government that did not get the guts to close TRANSBRASIL....the company is still open!!!What to say about the "others"?
 
PPVRA
Topic Author
Posts: 7867
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

RE: GOL Makes Proposal To Buy Varig.

Sat Apr 09, 2005 1:57 am

Quoting JJMNGR (Reply 42):
Nobody is paying too much attention to the point that RG shouldn´t have credits to lease aircrafts...for how much the contracts are being made? 2 or 3 times the average market rate because of the risk?
Shouldn´t someone is making money over all this to guarantee the children milk in the future?

I don't know, but my guess is that ILC has a lot of interest in having a costumer in a country the size of Brazil in the future... U.S. airlines have 300+ aircraft, many leased (i.e. $$$ for ILC and others), so you could see this as a long term "investment." Albeit we are not anywhere close to the size of the U.S. market, we are growing and have a lot of places to fly to and land to cover. But as with any investment, there are risks involved.

Just my thoughts anyways...

Cheers,
PPVRA
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
glennpower
Posts: 92
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 2:41 am

RE: GOL Makes Proposal To Buy Varig.

Sun Apr 10, 2005 2:30 pm

With regards RGs proposed lease of 2 x 747-400s (to be used on GRU-FRA route),what do you think!,because of there poor credit rating at the moment,they are going to after pay 3 times the going lease rate.
Point of intertest as well is I have just heard from a good source that JJ are thinking/going to resume GRU-FRA in the near future,(but without the FRA-ZRH leg that they flew a few years ago for a short time.

Regards
 
Brasuca
Posts: 684
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 12:09 am

RE: GOL Makes Proposal To Buy Varig.

Sun Apr 10, 2005 4:30 pm

Quoting Glennpower (Reply 45):
Point of intertest as well is I have just heard from a good source that JJ are thinking/going to resume GRU-FRA in the near future

There are many other less risky markets to JJ than FRA's one.

Star Alliance constrains Brazil-German market, which will threaten any JJ's further entrance into this market, just the way it happened when JJ launched a new route to Germany and LH + RG lowered fares, thus pulling out TAM. This sounds a very silly strategy.

Moreover, are there available frequencies for Brazil-German market? I believe every position has already been granted to LH and RG, with two daily flights each.
Varig, Varig, Varig
 
2travel2know
Posts: 2236
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:05 am

RE: GOL Makes Proposal To Buy Varig.

Mon Apr 11, 2005 12:25 am

GOL shouldn't try to buy RG, GOL's quite fine now and if they want international traffic they easily could get it to Mercosur countries and other destinations not served by RG doesn't fly.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
JJMNGR
Posts: 924
Joined: Wed May 26, 2004 9:06 pm

RE: GOL Makes Proposal To Buy Varig.

Mon Apr 11, 2005 6:45 am

FRA is out of TAM´s plans....in the past it was a bad strategy and it will be the same to return to this route in a moment like this.
Believe me guys...FRA is not running for a chance at this time.
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: GOL Makes Proposal To Buy Varig.

Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:03 am

Quoting JJMNGR (Reply 48):
FRA is not running for a chance at this time.

Completely agree, with destinations such as ZRH and AMS underserved, JJ should give a chance to other places.

FRA is completely dominated by RG-LH and JJ has no chance to enter their territory.

AMS has great potential and partner airline KLM could open the door for Europe's 4th biggest hub.

Rgs,

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