chicago757
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JetBlue In Chicago....

Wed Apr 06, 2005 7:39 am

Does jetBlue have any intentions of coming into Chicago? Perhaps MDW would be a good decision for them.
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ord
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago....

Wed Apr 06, 2005 7:42 am

jetBlue has stated they pretty much only want to serve Chicago via O'Hare. And since the slots are not available for them at this time, they are not planning service to Chicago anytime soon that I know of.
 
leelaw
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago....

Wed Apr 06, 2005 7:48 am

Now that Ted has arrived is there a lot of extra gate availability at MDW?
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airportplan
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago....

Wed Apr 06, 2005 8:18 am

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 2):
Now that Ted has arrived is there a lot of extra gate availability at MDW?

Yes and no. Any new carrier at MDW would have to share gates with other carriers. Gate availability times may be less than desirable for the new entrant. Take a look at Ted's MDW arrival and departure time. They are not during peak morning and evening hours. Leisure carriers like Ted can deals with this. Business oriented carriers such as Jet Blue cannot.
 
LGAtoIND
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago....

Wed Apr 06, 2005 8:18 am

I would imagine that B6 wants to stay away from MDW due to all the other LCC competition. Is this correct?
 
ATAV2pls10
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago....

Wed Apr 06, 2005 8:24 am

At present no carrier does MDW to JFK. Could be a market there. The question is gate space as there are no unused gates and they would half to rent some from someone else. Time will tell. Interesting times.

V2
 
leelaw
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago....

Wed Apr 06, 2005 8:37 am

If B6 really wanted to go "out of the box," perhaps it could try Chicago Gary (GYY) as a low risk/low cost entry entry point into the Chicago market?
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njdevilsin03
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago....

Wed Apr 06, 2005 8:47 am

I was bout to say Gary as well. THat would be interesting to see.
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DfwRevolution
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago....

Wed Apr 06, 2005 8:55 am

Quoting AirportPlan (Reply 3):
Business oriented carriers such as Jet Blue cannot.

"Business oriented?"  Wink

They are no such thing. "Business people" might like B6, but they do not cater to one niche or the other, as paying passengers are paying passengers. B6 serves vacation markets such as SJU, Nasua, Florida, etc...
 
N1120A
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago....

Wed Apr 06, 2005 10:08 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 8):
"Business oriented?"

They are no such thing. "Business people" might like B6, but they do not cater to one niche or the other, as paying passengers are paying passengers. B6 serves vacation markets such as SJU, Nassau, Florida, etc...

B6 does serve vacation markets but they also have taken a big chunk of the walk-up business market, particularly transcon, because of their superior walk-up fares and service. This was something they stated they wanted to do at start up, take Y class business travelers with their walkup fares that were about 1/4th what legacy carriers were charging back in 1999/2000
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
airportplan
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago....

Wed Apr 06, 2005 10:10 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 8):
Business oriented?"

They are no such thing. "Business people" might like B6, but they do not cater to one niche or the other, as paying passengers are paying passengers. B6 serves vacation markets such as SJU, Nasua, Florida, etc...

Yes at JFK they do carry a lot of leisure traffic. But they also carry a lot of business traffic from JFK to LGB, OAK and other business markets.
But to make money in Chicago, they need to be able to compete with AA, UA and TZ for NY bound business passengers. They really cannot do this unless they can control their schedule. They cannot do this unless they have their own gate(s) at ORD or MDW. AA, UA and TZ all offer peak hour departure times from Chicago to NYC which are attractive to business travelers. Also, JetBlue cannot compete with SWA/TZ at MDW when it comes to service to leisure markets. SWA/TZ offer too much frequency to these markets and are adding more each month.
 
MAH4546
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago....

Wed Apr 06, 2005 10:18 am

Quoting AirportPlan (Reply 10):
Also, JetBlue cannot compete with SWA/TZ at MDW when it comes to service to leisure markets. SWA/TZ offer too much frequency to these markets and are adding more each month.

They could to South Florida, where Southwest has a weak market position. If jetBlue goes to Chicago, I wouldn't be surprised to see the first destination be FLL.
a.
 
jacobin777
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago....

Wed Apr 06, 2005 10:19 am

Gary would be tuff, even though it might not be as far as people think, the PERCEIVED notion of having to fly to Gary is a turn off for many people, especially given the fact its not even in the state of Illinois. Its a little different than EWR, where its perceived to be very close.

ATA used to have flights from MDW to JFK, I've flown that route. If I can recall, AA had MDW to JFK also.

Given there aren't any carriers from MDW to JFK, if B6 can get some decent slots, I think they would do ok....though I think they are better off serving ORD-JFK.
"Up the Irons!"
 
kim777fan
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago....

Wed Apr 06, 2005 10:28 am

Howzabout Rockford?!?!?!  Yeah sure
 
MAH4546
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago....

Wed Apr 06, 2005 10:31 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 12):
If I can recall, AA had MDW to JFK also.

They flew LGA-MDW until last December.
a.
 
avek00
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago....

Wed Apr 06, 2005 10:32 am

I hope they do come to Chicago (and Houston for that matter), so that the Battle of Atlanta can be repeated again with similar success.  Smile
Live life to the fullest.
 
kim777fan
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago....

Wed Apr 06, 2005 10:36 am

Hmmmm... Sounds like Avek00 isn't a JetBlue fan.
 
avek00
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago....

Wed Apr 06, 2005 10:38 am

Quoting Kim777fan (Reply 16):
Hmmmm... Sounds like Avek00 isn't a JetBlue fan.

Hey, I just want B6 to try yet again to move into a major legacy hub. They've only had success in doing so at IAD.
Live life to the fullest.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago....

Wed Apr 06, 2005 11:12 am

Quoting Avek00 (Reply 17):
Hey, I just want B6 to try yet again to move into a major legacy hub. They've only had success in doing so at IAD.

The "battle of Atlanta" was lost due to:
1. B6 still establishing presence in LGB (with none in ATL) They had no FF to build off of.
2. The dual "allergic" reaction of FL and DL.

Will I would expect UA and AA to react to B6 in Chicago, B6 now has a large healthy customer base and could rapidly expand to JFK, BOS, FLL, and soon BUR. I'm not sure if any of the bay area markets would have enough yield... They'll probably do IAD too, but I wouldn't hold my breath on yield.

IAD worked due to adroit selection of initial routes.

As others noted, B6 has been vocal about ORD operations. Until they can get gates/slots Chicago will not be their next expansion. However, both UA and AA filed a complaint against the FAA that "new entrants" would be given preference at ORD... Hmmm...

Lightsaber
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STT757
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago....

Wed Apr 06, 2005 11:12 am

The issue with Jetblue flying to Chicago is not Ohare or Midway but rather JFK, I think they are holding off and monitoring the situation with regards to US Airways and other carriers with slots and gates at LGA which may become available within the next year or two. B6 would rather fly LGA-Chicago than JFK-Chicago, the lack of service on the JFK-Chicago route speaks volumes about it's potential.
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lowecur
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago....

Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:59 pm

Jetblue has designs on Chicago, but they will wait to see how consolidation plays out in the next few years. They would only go to Gary or Rockford if UAL and AMR continue to dominate ORD. That is highly unlikely, as it is my opinion that once UAL jettisons their pensions they will consolidate with someone or go Chapt 7. Jetblue will then look to pick up substantial gate space at ORD as any consolidation will face anti-trust review and require UAL to give up gates at ORD. UAL international routes would be the main driver behind a consolidation effort from any other carrier. If it's AMR, look for Arpey to promise AMR pilots full recall for further concessions as they staple existing UAL pilots to the bottom of the list (similar to TWA).
 
leelaw
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago....

Wed Apr 06, 2005 3:12 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 12):
Gary would be tuff, even though it might not be as far as people think, the PERCEIVED notion of having to fly to Gary is a turn off for many people, especially given the fact its not even in the state of Illinois.



Quoting Lowecur (Reply 20):
Jetblue has designs on Chicago, but they will wait to see how consolidation plays out in the next few years. They would only go to Gary or Rockford if UAL and AMR continue to dominate ORD.

The City of Chicago is actively promoting GYY in cooperation/partnership with the Chicago/Gary International Airport Authority as an alternative airport. Lake and Porter counties in Northwest Indiana have a combined population of nearly 650,000, part of the 9.1 million people in Metropolitan Chicago. GYY is only 35 minutes from downtown Chicago...it's kind of the LGB of the Chicago area. The FAA recently approved a very ambitious expansion plan for GYY. Why scratch around the margins at highly competitive MDW/ORD when B6 can be on the ground floor at GYY?
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lightsaber
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago....

Wed Apr 06, 2005 5:48 pm

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 21):
.it's kind of the LGB of the Chicago area.

Question, and I'm trying to be serious, how are the demographics around GYY? (Well to do? high traveling population?) The reason I ask is that LGB was always the airport in LA that should have been thriving due to the shear number of people with cash who live within 30 minutes of LGB. Or would it be better to compare GYY with ONT? (Most incomes < $80k/yr, average travel is less than two trips per year near ONT.)

And while I'm asking... what's the name of the airport NORTH of ORD that the city of Chicago is trying to promote as another alternative?

For Los Angeles (my home "town"), we have five commercial airports that seem to work. Since Chicago is only a bit smaller, I would guess it could support three or four. (Fewer partially due to the size of ORD.) But only BUR and SNA were early successes. ONT and then LGB were "late bloomers." Even now yields at ONT aren't spectacular (but then again, where are they?).

Lightsaber
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FA4B6
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago....

Wed Apr 06, 2005 11:52 pm

I dont think that ORD/MDW is a good idea for B6 right now. The lack of space, congestion [ORD], NYC-CHI is overserved from LGA ... I think that there are bigger fish tio fry then Chicago right now.

As well .. I'm not sure that GYY would work. No one in the NYC area knows where Gary is [I guess the same could've been said for LGB and ONT] but I think we would have to spend a lot of time promoting it. As well .. RFD seems really far out of the way. Is there enough of a population base at each airport to support service to JFK?

Quoting STT757 (Reply 19):
B6 would rather fly LGA-Chicago than JFK-Chicago, the lack of service on the JFK-Chicago route speaks volumes about it's potential.

STT757 .. actually, that's wrong. David Neeleman has said that he would rather start JFK-MDW/ORD then from LGA because any new slots we can get at LGA will go towards Florida service. He has always said that JFK is our home and will be our home. LGA serves JetBlue for additional Florida flying. The next cities to get LGA service on B6 will most likely be MCO, PBI, and TPA -- not a city we don't serve from JFK.
"Leap! And the net will appear."
 
leelaw
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago....

Thu Apr 07, 2005 12:42 am

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 22):
Question, and I'm trying to be serious, how are the demographics around GYY? (Well to do? high traveling population?) The reason I ask is that LGB was always the airport in LA that should have been thriving due to the shear number of people with cash who live within 30 minutes of LGB. Or would it be better to compare GYY with ONT? (Most incomes < $80k/yr, average travel is less than two trips per year near ONT.)

Good point, not sure which area is the better comparison; for what it's worth, here are some very general demographic stats of the communities adjoining the airports:

Lake Co., IN (includes City of Gary and Gary Airport),

Population - 485K
Median Income - $42K
Poverty Rate - 12.2%

(City of Gary: Population - 102K, Median Income - $27K, Poverty Rate - 25.6%)

Porter Co., IN,

Population - 153K
Median Income - 53K
Poverty Rate - 9.5%

Long Beach, CA,

Population - 461K
Median Income - 37K
Poverty Rate - 23.8%

(L. A. County Overall: Median Income - 42K, Poverty Rate - 17.9%)

Ontario, CA,

Population - 158K
Median Income - 42K
Poverty Rate - 15.5%

(San Bernardino Co. Overall: Median Income - 42K, Poverty Rate - 15.8%)

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 22):
And while I'm asking... what's the name of the airport NORTH of ORD that the city of Chicago is trying to promote as another alternative?

I'm not aware of such an airport.
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ckfred
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago....

Thu Apr 07, 2005 2:43 am

B6 has repeatedly said that it needs 4 or 5 gates to start service out of Chicago. It is not interested in sharing gates. I read back when ATA was looking into selling its MDW gates that B6 was not opposed to serving MDW, but it was not interested in getting into a bidding war with HP, FL, or WN.

I think US only has 2 or 3 gates at ORD, so, if US goes into Chapter 7, those gates alone aren't enough to get B6 to start ORD service.

It would be interesting to see if B6 would start flying the ORD-JFK route. UA flew that route some time ago, but that was more to feed its international departures out of JFK. DL Connection also flies one roundtrip, and TW used to fly 2 or 3 roundtrips.

UA and AA both fly hourly to LGA from 6am to 8pm, with some flights on the half hour during the morning and evening rush. And that doesn't include flights to EWR, HPN, or SWF. B6 would have to offer at least 12 departures to hope to lure passengers away from AA and UA.

Does B6 have a private lounge? I know that AA has two Admiral's Clubs, and UA has 2 Red Carpet Rooms. I'm not sure if there is a third one on Concourse F for UAX passengers. My wife is in the process of getting an Admiral's Club membership, and her boss had a DL Crown Room membership. So, people like these aren't going to fly B6, unless they have a place to get away from the mobs to do work or wait out delays.

Also, a lot of businesses in Chicago have contracts with AA or UA. B6 is not going to get those flyers, unless it offers enough service that businesses see some benefit from switching carriers.

The reason that UA and AA are griping about slots is that they have given up the largest number of flights and the largest percentages of their schedules, yet they are being put at the bottom of the list for getting slots back. The new entrants are not just LCCs, but also foreign carriers.

Before the slots were dropped in the late 90s, all of the airlines at ORD griped every time a foreign carrier started new service to ORD. One of the existing carriers, and not just AA and UA, lost a pair of slots (one arrival and one departure) through luck of the draw.
 
ORD2PHL
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago....

Thu Apr 07, 2005 3:39 am

There are no more 'slots' persay at ORD....
 
airportplan
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago....

Thu Apr 07, 2005 3:55 am

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 25):
Before the slots were dropped in the late 90s, all of the airlines at ORD griped every time a foreign carrier started new service to ORD. One of the existing carriers, and not just AA and UA, lost a pair of slots (one arrival and one departure) through luck of the draw.

All international operations including AA and UA are exempt from the new ORD slot limits. Only domestic operations are covered under the rule. This is an exemption that the Chicago Department of Aviation aggressively fought for. Also, AA and UA do not have to give up slots when a new international carrier begins service at ORD. This is one of the reasons why both AA and UA have added or plan to add more international service at ORD.
 
TedEx
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago....

Thu Apr 07, 2005 4:17 am

UA has four Red Carpet Clubs at O'Hare. One on either end of the B Concourse, one in C and one by the UX gates in F that used to be the US lounge:

http://www.united.com/page/article/0,1360,50299,00.html

That having been said, most B6 pax probably don't care so much about the availability of a lounge.

United is reducing their domestic fleet and has communicated that there may be a reduction in Express capacity as well. I think it's just a matter of time before more gates are available at ORD.

My understanding is that the jetBlue brand has generated a certain level of fanaticism in the NY market and people fly jetBlue because they perceive it to be a superior value.

An additional destination (ORD) would give NY another destination and sensitize the Chicago market to the relatively unknown brand. If things were performing up to par, then maybe expanding by connecting the dots to cities such as FLL, LGB, etc. would make sense.
 
mark777300
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago....

Thu Apr 07, 2005 4:54 am

All I know is, there is a huge gap that is available there that B6 can fill in rather nicely. There are hardly any flights between JFK and the Chicago area, and I could only imagine that there is a huge potential market that exist that hasn't yet been tapped into. There are so many options to take, JFK-ORD, JFK-MDW, LGA-ORD, LGA-MDW, and how about using the new ERJ-190's between ISP and say MDW??? I also thought about Gary, but in all honesty, B6 hasn't really followed suit with airlines such as SWA by flying into alternative, under utilized airports such as Gary, or even Sanford in FL. So I really don't see them choosing Gary as an alternative destination, although I'm sure it may support a few daily flights, maybe with the ERJ's?
 
airportplan
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago....

Thu Apr 07, 2005 5:49 am

Quoting Mark777300 (Reply 29):
All I know is, there is a huge gap that is available there that B6 can fill in rather nicely. There are hardly any flights between JFK and the Chicago area, and I could only imagine that there is a huge potential market that exist that hasn't yet been tapped into.

Huge gap? Chicago to New York is one of the best served routes in the world. There are five airlines (AA, CO, DL, TZ UA) serving the EWR and LGA with nearly 50 flights per day. The preferred airports for business travelers in NY are LGA and EWR. The DL RJ flight is just to feed DL's international operations at JFK. Most Chicago travelers really don't need to or want to travel through JFK when they can travel nonstop to almost any city from ORD or MDW.
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago....

Thu Apr 07, 2005 6:47 am

"Most Chicago travelers really don't need to or want to travel through JFK when they can travel nonstop to almost any city from ORD or MDW."

Actually Airport Plan, Chicagp travellers can virtually travel nonstop to any city in the world . . . BUT THEY CAN'T FLY NONSTOP TO JFK!

That speaks volumes about AA and UA . . . not about the lack of a market.

Remember before b6 there were 4 flights a day to FLL from JFK. One a day to PBI.

Why serve those cities from JFK? said the legacies.

PJ
 
MAH4546
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago....

Thu Apr 07, 2005 7:10 am

Quoting JFKLGANYC (Reply 31):
Actually Airport Plan, Chicagp travellers can virtually travel nonstop to any city in the world . . . BUT THEY CAN'T FLY NONSTOP TO JFK!

Yes, they can, on Delta.

Quoting JFKLGANYC (Reply 31):

Remember before b6 there were 4 flights a day to FLL from JFK. One a day to PBI.

Why serve those cities from JFK? said the legacies.

There is a huge difference in the market. Chicago-New York City is a business market while Florida-New York City is a leisure and VFR market, outside of MIA.
a.
 
ejmmsu
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago....

Thu Apr 07, 2005 7:14 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 32):
Yes, they can, on Delta

This flight is heavily fare restricted to keep the seats open for the lucrative international iteneraries. The price of this flight is often twice the price of a flight to LGA or EWR.
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
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STT757
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago....

Thu Apr 07, 2005 7:40 am

Quoting FA4B6 (Reply 23):
STT757 .. actually, that's wrong. David Neeleman has said that he would rather start JFK-MDW/ORD then from LGA because any new slots we can get at LGA will go towards Florida service.

I have a hard time believing that if given the chance they would rather fly to Chicago from JFK than LGA.

Quoting Mark777300 (Reply 29):
There are hardly any flights between JFK and the Chicago area, and I could only imagine that there is a huge potential market that exist that hasn't yet been tapped into

Something other airlines have just been overlooking for the past 40 years?.. JFK-Chicago has never "Taken Off" for any airline that has tried it, ATA, AA, Pan Am, TWA, UAL etc..

Quoting JFKLGANYC (Reply 31):
That speaks volumes about AA and UA . . . not about the lack of a market.

There were others, TWA, Pan Am, ATA etc..

Quoting JFKLGANYC (Reply 31):
Remember before b6 there were 4 flights a day to FLL from JFK.

In the '70s and '80s Eastern, Pan Am and TWA were flying L1011s from JFK to FLL.

B6 with their low fare service is opening up these markets in ways the legacies did not because they charged high fares which "drove" most people to take I-95 to Florida. Chicago is different because it's a business route rather than a leisure route, time and conveinence are the most important factors for travelers.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
airportplan
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago....

Thu Apr 07, 2005 7:44 am

Quoting JFKLGANYC (Reply 31):
Actually Airport Plan, Chicagp travellers can virtually travel nonstop to any city in the world . . . BUT THEY CAN'T FLY NONSTOP TO JFK!

Unlike travelers from many other cities, Chicago travelers have no need to go to JFK? When they go to NYC they fly to LGA or EWR. When they go anywhere else, in most cases they fly non-stop from ORD or MDW to their destination. The airlines realized this a long time ago. When B6 eventually starts service to Chicago they will fly to JFK because it is their hub. Otherwise, don't look from any other airlines to start service from JFK to Chicago.
 
chicago757
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago....

Thu Apr 07, 2005 8:09 am

See, I think B6 would do good offering a route to JFK from MDW. No other carrier at MDW goes non-stop into JFK..... furthermore, no airline besides ATA goes directly into New York City (LGA), ever since AA stopped the MDW-LGA route.
Go White Sox!!!!
 
ckfred
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago....

Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:25 pm

ORD2PHL:

There aren't slots per se, in that one airline can't sell an arrival or departure slot to another, but arrivals are capped at 88 per hour. So, every carrier's operations level is fixed.

Airport Plan:

Are you sure? I just read an article in Monday's Tribune saying that the City wanted the FAA to increase the arrivals to 94 an hour, and the FAA said no. The argument is that with the normal thunderstorm activity, 94 arrivals per hour would greatly increase the chance of operations getting behind and never catch up. I didn't read anything about exemptions for international arrivals and departures.

If that is the case, that just makes it that much harder for any carrier, let alone AA and UA, to add to their domestic schedules.

Indy Air tried to argue that it shouldn't have to reduce its ORD operations, because it cut back operations to only IAD service, compared to when it was a UAX carrier. On the other hand, UA needed to cut back UAX service, since it got SkyWest to take over the UAX operations.

The FAA didn't buy it.

I also read in the Tribune that if the FAA can determine that MD-80s can consistantly perform LAHSO operations on 22R, then it might increase the arrival rate above 88 per hour.
 
airportplan
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago....

Thu Apr 07, 2005 2:03 pm

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 37):
Are you sure? I just read an article in Monday's Tribune saying that the City wanted the FAA to increase the arrivals to 94 an hour, and the FAA said no. The argument is that with the normal thunderstorm activity, 94 arrivals per hour would greatly increase the chance of operations getting behind and never catch up. I didn't read anything about exemptions for international arrivals and departures.

I re-read the ORD slot rules and for international flights. Foreign flag carriers are usually exempt, but AA and UA must use their existing slots for international flights.

Here is link to the new ORD rule in the Federal Register.
http://www.regulations.gov/freddocs/05-05882.htm
The entire ruling is hundreds of lines long. What you read in the paper usually contains just tiny bits of information.
 
mark777300
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago....

Thu Apr 07, 2005 2:52 pm

AirportPlan said:

Huge gap? Chicago to New York is one of the best served routes in the world. There are five airlines (AA, CO, DL, TZ UA) serving the EWR and LGA with nearly 50 flights per day. The preferred airports for business travelers in NY are LGA and EWR. The DL RJ flight is just to feed DL's international operations at JFK. Most Chicago travelers really don't need to or want to travel through JFK when they can travel nonstop to almost any city from ORD or MDW.


So people prefer to use EWR and LGA over JFK? Is that why the number of passengers traveling through JFK has increased dramatically over the past few years? When you throw in a carrier such as B6 into the equation, you have a completely new ball game. Factor in the new AirTrain with connections to the NYC subway and the LIRR, you have more reasons to fly out of JFK than you ever had before. If B6's prices are as low as they normally are, do you think that even a business traveler would opt to fly to EWR or LGA simply because it might be closer or preferred? Companies are not willing to pay those big bucks to fly employees across country like they use to. As already said before, there are no direct flights between JFk and MDW, and very few between JFk and ORD. If I wanted to fly to Chicago, i would much rather fly out of JFK than out of LGA and most certainly EWR. For those folks not aware of the geography of the NYC area, EWR is in New Jersey, and quite a bit of a ride for anyone living in Queens, Brooklyn, and the Bronx, and the outer suburbs in Long Island. LGA is a choice, but when you factor in all the delays that LGA constantly faces with even the slightest condition in weather, you begin to see why so many people are now flocking over to JFK. I refuse to fly out of LGA, EWR is way too far, and it's either JFK or ISP for me. So there is a huge potential there for someone to tap into the JFK-Chicago market that has for many years been overlooked. I'm even sure that the number of flights that are served between the NYC area and Chicago is still far less than other city pairs such as NYC to South FLA, NYC to LA or SF, or NYC to Atlanta. I think that it would be foolish for anyone to overlook this opportunity.
 
MAH4546
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago....

Thu Apr 07, 2005 3:36 pm

Quoting Mark777300 (Reply 39):
I'm even sure that the number of flights that are served between the NYC area and Chicago is still far less than other city pairs such as NYC to South FLA, NYC to LA or SF, or NYC to Atlanta. I think that it would be foolish for anyone to overlook this opportunity.

IIRC, NYC-Chicago is the third most traveled air route in the US, after LA-SF, NYC-S. FL, and NYC-LA.
a.
 
chicago757
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago....

Fri Apr 08, 2005 2:17 am

I agree with you Mark777300
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ERJ170
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago....

Fri Apr 08, 2005 2:37 am

Quoting Mark777300 (Reply 39):
I'm even sure that the number of flights that are served between the NYC area and Chicago is still far less than other city pairs such as NYC to South FLA, NYC to LA or SF, or NYC to Atlanta.

ORD-EWR = 22 daily flights (7 AA, 8 CO, 7 UA)
ORD-LGA = 33 daily flights (18 AA, 15 UA)
ORD-JFK = 1 daily flight (1 DLConn)
MDW-EWR = 8 daily flights (4 ATA, 4 CO)
MDW-LGA = 7 daily flights (7 ATA)
MDW-JFK = 0 daily flights
MDW-ISP = 3 daily flights (3 WN)

Total CHI-NYC flights = 74 dialy flights
Aiming High and going far..
 
N1120A
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago....

Fri Apr 08, 2005 2:40 am

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 22):
(Most incomes < $80k/yr, average travel is less than two trips per year near ONT.)

Don't leave out the draw from places in Southeastern LA county like Walnut, parts of West Covina, etc. and upscale portions of SB and Riverside county like Upland, along with the draw of skiing as well as Palm Springs (ONT has much more service and capability than PSP). All of these draw people

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 22):
ONT and then LGB were "late bloomers."

While LGB was mostly built as an industrial airport, ONT is in no way a late bloomer. They have had steady service from a wide variety of carriers for years, including almost constant widebody service since the 1970s

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 24):
Ontario, CA,

Population - 158K
Median Income - 42K
Poverty Rate - 15.5%

(San Bernardino Co. Overall: Median Income - 42K, Poverty Rate - 15.8%

That is really not a tell tale sign of anything.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
leelaw
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago....

Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:15 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 43):
with the draw of skiing

Interesting. Skiers, at least seasonally, accessing the local ski areas, generate significant traffic into ONT?
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exFATboy
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago....

Fri Apr 08, 2005 4:20 am

Does ONT really get that much traffic from skiers (or us cool people who snowboard instead  Silly )? I'd always thought most skiers/riders would rather fly to Tahoe, Whistler, Colorado, etc. than to the SoCal resorts. How many people outside the Southland even know there are ski areas there? (I'm not being sarcastic - I just asked a few co-workers that and they had no idea there were ski resorts in Southern California.)
 
FATFlyer
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago....

Fri Apr 08, 2005 5:21 am

Quoting ExFATboy (Reply 45):
Does ONT really get that much traffic from skiers

I always considered the ski resorts around that area like Mt. Baldy and Bear Mountain to be day use places since there are really no resort villages. Mammoth Mountain is the only resort that I can think of with a semi-national rep that might attract people through ONT. But Mammoth's web site recommends using RNO for flights not Ontario.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain