TKMCE
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Air Deccan - Be Careful!

Wed Apr 06, 2005 11:11 pm

India's first LCC- apparently going great guns. But be aware that there are chinks showing up.

Although they trumpeted with great fan fare the launch of servicees of the 4th and 5th A320s based in DEL and HYD, on March 27th making a total of 5 A320s, one of them seem to be still on the ground as I understand due to shortage of crews.

One of the two flights on the DEL BLR DEL , DEL BOM DEL and BOM BLR BOM have been continusously cancelled for the past few days (information thanks to what is provided helpfully in the Air Deccan website itself). There seems to be a serious shortage of crew and word is getting around that the reason is that they want staff to work on poverty level wages!

I can foresee the situation to get worse only now that the new start ups start operating. So be careful if you are booking tickets with them esp on the A320 sectors. ATR sectors seems to be stable so far although as I understand sectors like BOM AMD do get cancelled quite often.

And finally before you jump to Air Deccan for that cheap fare, check out the fares in the internet in the Jet Airways website. Jet is using Dynamic Yield Management so you may get cheap fares even at the last minute with hardly any restrictions. As I mentioned in a previous thread, I was able to get a MAA CJB fare for next day travel at Rs 1800 viz a viz Air Deccan' Rs 2800!
 
stealthpilot
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RE: Air Deccan - Be Careful!

Thu Apr 07, 2005 12:53 am

Yup DN is facing a crew shortage alright! They recently made a deal with KingFisher where they wouldn’t 'steal' each others employees, and I believe they agreed to help each other out in other aspects (share the new simulators coming up in Bangalore?)
Shortage of crew to fly the planes = wow! I wouldn’t be surprised if it occurred in the near future but I didn’t think it would happen so fast. Let’s hope this ‘shortage’ (mildly) continues for the next 2 years, makes my prospects of getting a job even better once I graduate  Smile
-Nikhil
eP007
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Air Deccan - Be Careful!

Thu Apr 07, 2005 10:32 pm

Shortage of Flying crew is a Big Issue among all Airlines currently,especially KF,AD,BD & Spicejet.
Even IA & AIe requires a lot.
Two F/Os left BD yesterday for IA.
Some Expats are being recruited soon.
Even AMEs shortages are creeping up.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
BCAL
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RE: Air Deccan - Be Careful!

Thu Apr 07, 2005 10:39 pm

Not that long ago Air Deccan were saying that they were going to order A380s see http://www.airliners.net/discussions...general_aviation/read.main/1861695

Wishful thinking?
MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Air Deccan - Be Careful!

Fri Apr 08, 2005 2:30 pm

Quoting BCAL (Reply 3):
Not that long ago Air Deccan were saying that they were going to order A380s

Even VM said it during a meeting with KF Crew & Engineers in Feb.
 
regds
MEL

[Edited 2005-04-08 07:31:43]
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
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AirIndia
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RE: Air Deccan - Be Careful!

Fri Apr 08, 2005 8:20 pm

I hope they dont cancel my flight for 13th, delay wud be fine.

I think the 4PM DEL from BOM is on the older 320s...
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Air Deccan - Be Careful!

Fri Apr 08, 2005 9:39 pm

Quoting AirIndia (Reply 5):
I think the 4PM DEL from BOM is on the older 320s...

Guru,From outside Its looks great.Nice Colour scheme especially the Blue strip.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
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AirIndia
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RE: Air Deccan - Be Careful!

Mon Apr 11, 2005 8:27 pm

They have rescheduled the 4PM flight to 4:50 PM now. I checked this on their site. they hadnot informed me about this. This is really un-professional.

Lets see how the experience goes.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Air Deccan - Be Careful!

Mon Apr 11, 2005 9:38 pm

Quoting AirIndia (Reply 7):
Lets see how the experience goes.

Hopefully you would be posting a Trip Report.
BTW when you returning.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
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AirIndia
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RE: Air Deccan - Be Careful!

Mon Apr 11, 2005 11:21 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 8):
Hopefully you would be posting a Trip Report.

My sister was here this weekend, and has taken my camera with her to Goa. I dont know how much exciting it wud be to post a report without pics.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 8):
BTW when you returning.

I am returning back on 18th late night or 19th early morning.

trying to get a cam from some frnd...
 
mrniji
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RE: Air Deccan - Be Careful!

Mon Apr 11, 2005 11:25 pm

Quoting AirIndia (Reply 9):
trying to get a cam from some frnd...

We will use mine to monitor the mini a.net meeting in DEL.. btw, tomorow I will do my best to get tickets for the last ODI - should I try to grab you one? SMS be best
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
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AirIndia
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RE: Air Deccan - Be Careful!

Mon Apr 11, 2005 11:30 pm

Quoting Mrniji (Reply 10):
SMS be best

hope you got the sms. pls grab one for me...
 
mrniji
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RE: Air Deccan - Be Careful!

Mon Apr 11, 2005 11:51 pm

Quoting AirIndia (Reply 11):
hope you got the sms. pls grab one for me...

Got it, will try me best in Lunch break tomorrow (after being sent from one place to the other today in my first attempt Big grin ) Ah, my India..  Wink
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
TKMCE
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RE: Air Deccan - Be Careful!

Tue Apr 12, 2005 2:48 pm

Back to the topic

IC, Jet and Sahara have all hiked fares by around 12% thanks due to the spiralling costs of ATF. But Air Deccan as usual have not raised fares saying their higher occupancy rates compensate for it.

Now this is all fine in theory- but in practice when you are having A320s, which they are struggling to keep on air (despite brave announcements - one of the five A 320s have been on the ground for the past ten days) due to a severe shortage of crew, is this such a smart move?? As it is they end up paying lease rentals on the aircraft, whether in the ground or in the air and in many of the routes now Jet is matching them move for move with their dynamic "Check Fares" now being introduced into the Mumbai Coimbatore route as well.

In addition to this I understand Deccan is hiring expat crews (not getting too many takers as I understand because of their spectaculary low salaries) and this pushes up their costs as well.

Also nowadays the loads are not as high as it used to be.

As of today (12th April) seats are avaiable for ALL Air Deccan flights on all sectors tommorrow, 13 April and they have over 10 flights a day from HYD. You should also remember that of these flights all except 3 are ATR flights.

Also a comparison of lowest fares (for 13 April) as of today (12 April) for Air Deccan vs Jet is interesting (all fares incl of taxes)

Hyderabad Chennai Deccan - Rs 2321 Jet - Rs 2911

Hyderabad Bangalore Deccan - Rs 3171 Jet- Rs 5171

Hyderabad Delhi Deccan - Rs 4921 Jet - Rs 4771

Hyderabad Kolkata Deccan - Rs 4871 Jet - Rs 4550



You can see that for two of the four sectors they compete head to head, Jet is cheaper than Deccan whle for Chennai sector they come close. Only in the case of BLR is there a big difference (but this is a sector Jet has a major capacity crunch with one ATR and a 737 which continues to CCU).

I have a feeling in view of all the above, Air Deccan is a bubble going to burst!!!!
 
mrniji
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RE: Air Deccan - Be Careful!

Tue Apr 12, 2005 3:20 pm

Quoting TKMCE (Reply 13):
I have a feeling in view of all the above, Air Deccan is a bubble going to burst!!!!

Let's see what happens when the other LCCs come.. there might be overcompetition. I think it is difficult to predict, but you may be right, though I think that they might become a good regional and trunk route player..

Maybe I should aply as beinga n FA with them.. they might even take me Big grin
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
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AirIndia
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RE: Air Deccan - Be Careful!

Tue Apr 12, 2005 5:39 pm

Quoting Mrniji (Reply 14):
aply as beinga n FA with them

with so many airlines coming up and an airline seat becoming more like a commodity, there might be huge opportunity in marketing as there can be lot of research involved, is anyone aware of such openings?
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Air Deccan - Be Careful!

Tue Apr 12, 2005 6:48 pm

Quoting TKMCE (Reply 13):
I have a feeling in view of all the above, Air Deccan is a bubble going to burst!!!!

In a couple of years there will be a few bubbles bursting No doubt.After the boom of 2005-06.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
TKMCE
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RE: Air Deccan - Be Careful!

Tue Apr 12, 2005 6:59 pm

Quoting AirIndia (Reply 15):
with so many airlines coming up and an airline seat becoming more like a commodity, there might be huge opportunity in marketing as there can be lot of research involved, is anyone aware of such openings?

Not with Air Deccan. anyway!! As it is I heard even their pilot salaries are so lucrative that there are hardly any takers
 
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AirIndia
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RE: Air Deccan - Be Careful!

Wed Apr 13, 2005 11:52 am

Quoting TKMCE (Reply 17):
Not with Air Deccan

what about Kingfisher. As a group, UB is very much into market research... all their brands are leaders in their categories, thanks to research...
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Air Deccan - Be Careful!

Wed Apr 13, 2005 6:02 pm

Quoting TKMCE (Reply 17):
As it is I heard even their pilot salaries are so lucrative that there are hardly any takers

Low cost carriers  Smile they will have to raise salaries to survive.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
Nimish
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RE: Air Deccan - Be Careful!

Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:41 pm

I really hope DN does survive, they've had a huge impact on the Indian airlines in the past year they've been in business, and it's all been for the better for the passengers.

The airlines themselves must be cursing DN for bringing much needed price competition into the market, and hence undoubtedly there will be many (vocal) detractors to the airline.

Given a market driven economy, pilots/mx folks need to get market based salaries, and if the market is on the way up, DN will need to follow as well. There's no way they can pull pilots out of thin air! If that means their air fares go up by a notch, so be it, since they'll still be much cheaper than full price tickets on traditional airlines.

Airlines having empty seats on any flight is a terrible thing, given that those seats are perishable. Hence it's great that 9W is introducing a load based pricing strategy. However full credit goes to DN, to force 9W to offer unused inventory at lower prices!
Latest Trip Report - GoAir BLR-BOM-BLR
 
TKMCE
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RE: Air Deccan - Be Careful!

Thu Apr 14, 2005 2:52 pm

As I see it the probllem with Air Deccan is they are in an overambitious expansion mode (memories of Vayudoot come to mind).

It is only now that they are introducing a second daily flights on routes like BOM-DEL or DEL - BLR. Having "half" a daily flight in stations like Hubli or Kolhapur doesnt do well as far as costs are concerned. Even if they are outsourcing such things such as Ground hndling or Check in, such small scale of operations arent cost effective.

The big difference with Air Deccan viz a viz airlines like Southwest is that the latter concentrated on building up frequencies over a few routes (like Dallas - Houston- San Antonio for South west) before they started spreading elsewhere. This is not the case for Air Deccan.

Take a look at their one or two flight frequency stations
Kolhapur/Belgaum/Surat/Nasik/Vijayawada/Tirupati/Vizag/Ahmedabad/Baroda/Jaipur/Agra/Bhopal/Kanpur/Jammu/Mangalore/Madurai/Coimbatore/Guwahati....................

How are you going to rationalise costs???
 
mrniji
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RE: Air Deccan - Be Careful!

Thu Apr 14, 2005 3:21 pm

AFAIK they should be allowed to go international after two years of successful operation.. that could be a money-making market (Far East, SAARC etc..). If they do so, they should focus on a few cities they perate from

One thing I wonder: do you think they have beytter chances of making cash within India or with international flights?
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
TKMCE
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RE: Air Deccan - Be Careful!

Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:07 pm

Quoting Mrniji (Reply 22):
One thing I wonder: do you think they have beytter chances of making cash within India or with international flights?

I would say for Air Deccan atleast going international will be suicidal right now. While their head honcho keeps on saying that they have high load factors so they dont have to raise fares, I dont really know how long they can stick to this (maybe a case of foolish pride taking precedence over common sense?). How muh of these "high loads" are at LOW fares???

Low cost or high cost, fuel costs are the same for everyone. And in the case of Deccan, the 320 lease rentals I aussme will be quite high. Plus the fact that it is now becoming one of Indian Aviation's worst kept secrets that they are struggling for crew and as a result there are major service disruptions which again doesnt do their revenue flows any good.
How long will the situation remain like this...
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Air Deccan - Be Careful!

Thu Apr 14, 2005 6:58 pm

Quoting TKMCE (Reply 23):
How long will the situation remain like this...

Upto 2006,when the Bubble bursts.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
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AirIndia
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RE: Air Deccan - Be Careful!

Fri Apr 15, 2005 9:29 am

will be posting a detailed trip report, but in short, DN is trying to get airtravel to the masses. In my flight there could have been as many as 50% first time travellers, all wanted o use the loo, all wanted the FAs to appear on the call and worst, all wanted to take a walk on the aisle.

The IFE is primarily the NDTV party show, where all the past weeks P3 parties are covered. A little business from CNBC is also squeezed in. The a/c is not brand new, with seat covers torn. The seat pitch is not impressive, if the guy in the front seat reclines then one has to strech (only true for guys 5'8" and above)

Will give detailes in the TR soon.

Planning to setup a DEL meet with subin, kartik, pran
 
mrniji
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RE: Air Deccan - Be Careful!

Fri Apr 15, 2005 1:48 pm

Quoting AirIndia (Reply 25):
Planning to setup a DEL meet with subin, kartik, pran

We will talk today, after I call Pran (in office, as his son used his mobile like a cricket ball) and Kartik
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Air Deccan - Be Careful!

Fri Apr 15, 2005 3:33 pm

Quoting AirIndia (Reply 25):
In my flight there could have been as many as 50% first time travellers, all wanted o use the loo, all wanted the FAs to appear on the call and worst, all wanted to take a walk on the aisle.

 Smile Interesting.

Quoting AirIndia (Reply 25):
Planning to setup a DEL meet with subin, kartik, pran

Did you get the Tickets for the match or is the meet someplace else.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
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AirIndia
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RE: Air Deccan - Be Careful!

Fri Apr 15, 2005 7:10 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 27):
Tickets for the match

this seems very unlikely. rush is maddening. we have decided to see the match in some common place. thats a beter idea.... will get the pics...
 
mrniji
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RE: Air Deccan - Be Careful!

Fri Apr 15, 2005 7:14 pm

Quoting AirIndia (Reply 28):
this seems very unlikely. rush is maddening. we have decided to see the match in some common place. thats a beter idea....

Yes after Teams India's fascinating performance in the last three odis, I do not want to spend one Paisa for the tickets and consider to recommend Arjun, Prans son, for the team, as he might make more runs than all these losers after practicing with Prans mobile

Guru, phoned Pran, he will be tight, but we will try .. will phone Kartik later
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
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AirIndia
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RE: Air Deccan - Be Careful!

Sat Apr 16, 2005 2:48 am

Quoting Mrniji (Reply 29):
Guru, phoned Pran, he will be tight, but we will try .. will phone Kartik later

sorry subin. cud not reply your call as I was in the middle of something very urgent. will call you in the mornng....
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Air Deccan - Be Careful!

Sat Apr 16, 2005 6:22 pm

Quoting Mrniji (Reply 29):
Yes after Teams India's fascinating performance in the last three odis, I do not want to spend one Paisa for the tickets

Yeah,since last year I only watch the Highlights  Smile
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
TKMCE
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RE: Air Deccan - Be Careful!

Sat Apr 16, 2005 6:54 pm

Quoting AirIndia (Reply 30):
Yeah,since last year I only watch the Highlights

Highlights or Lowlights ????
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Air Deccan - Be Careful!

Sat Apr 16, 2005 9:03 pm

Higlights for the Visitors  Smile
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
COUGARRIDES
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RE: Air Deccan - Be Careful!

Tue Apr 26, 2005 5:09 pm

Rajeev does have a point.

I just booked myself on Jet HYD-BOM-PNQ for 16-May for an unbelievable fare of 3460 of which INR1300 was for BOM-PNQ!

While BOM-PNQ was booked under APEX21/APEX14, the booking agent advised me to book HYD-BOM under their "Check fares" scheme which for the early mornign 6am flight was coming to a mere INR2160! And this fare was not under APEX which mean I could cancel or reschedule without incurring cancellation charges. The only restriction was on flight number. I coul drebook myself for the same flight on the next day, but could not choose for eg the flight departing at 0715.
Air India - Indias national shame
 
VictorTango
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RE: Air Deccan - Be Careful!

Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:43 pm

Hey Roy welcome back....

You grown old pretty quick!

BTW you be joining us for the meet at BOM?

Olly
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Air Deccan - Be Careful!

Tue Apr 26, 2005 9:00 pm

Quoting VictorTango (Reply 35):
BTW you be joining us for the meet at BOM

Yeah Roy.Would you be back from Ladakh by then.
This time it looks like a Big Gang meeting up.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)