CALMSP
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Whats Next For CO?

Thu Apr 07, 2005 2:18 am

well this is a great announcement for CO, however, are we about at the limit for long distance flight announcements until we take delivery of the 787 in 2009? I think everyone downtown at Scheduling and Aircraft routing has got to be working real hard to tweak every 777 schedule.
 
drerx7
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RE: Whats Next For CO?

Thu Apr 07, 2005 2:24 am

Well with the 753s coming this summer will we see any new 753 cities or new cities with those freed up 757s/738s/739s? One thing is definite IAH won't be getting any long distance cities for some time to come (2009?) Unless they decide to pick up some interim 767s via leases or second hand.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
CALMSP
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RE: Whats Next For CO?

Thu Apr 07, 2005 2:27 am

i think our next IAH expansion is going to be (Mexico always) but will be in S. America....we are now flying our 738 winglets on IAH-ANC (3266 mil.) i imagine we will see some more cities in S. America open up.
 
drerx7
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RE: Whats Next For CO?

Thu Apr 07, 2005 2:36 am

Yeah, I agree--with the widebodies becoming fully utilized and the 752s enroute to a similar fate they will probably start maxing those 738s and 73Gs out--as well as the ERJ XRs. Its like having a garage full of EVOs, 911s, RX8s, and Corvettes and taking them to an autocross track every day--vs. going to the grocery store.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
Tango-Bravo
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RE: Whats Next For CO?

Thu Apr 07, 2005 3:08 am

Quoting CALMSP (Thread starter):
Whats Next For CO?

Paycuts Round Two.
 
DAYflyer
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RE: Whats Next For CO?

Thu Apr 07, 2005 3:17 am

Well, with new labor contracts in place I will speculate (for the two cents it's worth, including inflation) that CO will expand into underserved, long thin markets in Europe and South America. The newly ordered 787 and the newly leased 757's will serve them well in this capacity. Most flights will come from EWR.
One Nation Under God
 
drdivo
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RE: Whats Next For CO?

Thu Apr 07, 2005 6:00 am

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 2):
i think our next IAH expansion is going to be (Mexico always) but will be in S. America.

What I've been hearing from a VERY reliable inside source is that with the delivery of more 75M, 762 service to some European destinations will be down gauged with increased frequencies of 75M and 762 service is being considered for IAH-FRA, IAH-MAD and IAH-FCO.

I have been waiting for CO to go after those EZE slots that they gave up to DL many moons ago that now reside with AA and are operated from DFW.
Respectfully - the Divo
 
gogodude
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RE: Whats Next For CO?

Thu Apr 07, 2005 6:13 am

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 1):
One thing is definite IAH won't be getting any long distance cities for some time to come (2009?)

Actually, this article begs to differ:
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/business/3121673

Never mind, that article talks about Newark, not IAH. Sorry. Carry on.

[Edited 2005-04-06 23:16:00]
 
goCOgo
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RE: Whats Next For CO?

Thu Apr 07, 2005 6:26 am

Maybe they will finally throw us at CLE a bone, and give us some intl. service. Perhaps year round LGW & AMS with the 72M?
"Why you fly is your business, how you fly is ours"
 
N766UA
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RE: Whats Next For CO?

Thu Apr 07, 2005 6:57 am

What's a 72M?
This Website Censors Me
 
nycflyer
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RE: Whats Next For CO?

Thu Apr 07, 2005 7:00 am

what other international cities does anyone think CO will expand to next?

personally, I would love to see CUZ (Cuzco, Peru), but it would have to be on a 733. It's an ideal market for daily ERJ service, but maybe 3 or 4x/week for a 733, as there probably isn't enough demand for daily.
 
goCOgo
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RE: Whats Next For CO?

Thu Apr 07, 2005 8:35 am

Quoting N766UA (Reply 9):
What's a 72M?

That is the new designation for a 757 with winglets. I just learned that a few days ago.
"Why you fly is your business, how you fly is ours"
 
TWA902fly
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RE: Whats Next For CO?

Thu Apr 07, 2005 8:38 am

Quoting GoCOgo (Reply 11):
That is the new designation for a 757 with winglets. I just learned that a few days ago.

Wouldnt that be 75M not 72M?

TWA902
life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
 
N766UA
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RE: Whats Next For CO?

Thu Apr 07, 2005 8:42 am

Interesting... I'm sure the CLE-LGW route, due to start again this month, will be one of the first to see the winglets.

Funny thing... I was up at CLE yesterday and there was an ERJ at D with a bag cart next to it and on the bag cart was the white and blue "LGW" sign. ERJs to LGW, I thought... for some reason it doesn't surprise me.  Big grin
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Sam the Lab
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RE: Whats Next For CO?

Thu Apr 07, 2005 8:47 am

Any of you folks in the know about Continental have any thought on what the chances could ever be of an EWR-Cork, Ireland (ORK) if and when the compulsory Shannon stopover ever goes?

Ideal 757-200 material on a few days a week in the summer at the very least? From a local audience's point of view in the Cork and surrounding area it would be better if Aer Lingus tried this but the A330 equipment is just too big for now, I feel.

I understand Continental are now to install winglets on 737-700 series aircraft so I cant help wondering would we ever see such aircraft on this side of the Atlantic? Should be able to do EWR to Cork in one hop even in winter with winglets installed or is this just pie in the sky, so to speak!?

Anyway, Cork's shiney new terminal should be ready for summer 2006 so what about it Continental? Sure would like to welcome you to Cork!
 
cle757
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RE: Whats Next For CO?

Thu Apr 07, 2005 8:48 am

Interesting... I'm sure the CLE-LGW route, due to start again this month, will be one of the first to see the winglets.

Funny thing... I was up at CLE yesterday and there was an ERJ at D with a bag cart next to it and on the bag cart was the white and blue "LGW" sign. ERJs to LGW, I thought... for some reason it doesn't surprise me.


Yeah that cart goes everywhere, it was created to use only for the LGW flight but it gets around....CLE-AMS is still rumored in CLE with a 757-200
Cleveland the best location in the Nation
 
MAH4546
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RE: Whats Next For CO?

Thu Apr 07, 2005 9:10 am

Quoting Drdivo (Reply 6):

I have been waiting for CO to go after those EZE slots that they gave up to DL many moons ago that now reside with AA and are operated from DFW.

They are now permantently in the hands of AA. CO can't have them back.

Quoting NYCFlyer (Reply 10):
personally, I would love to see CUZ (Cuzco, Peru), but it would have to be on a 733. It's an ideal market for daily ERJ service, but maybe 3 or 4x/week for a 733, as there probably isn't enough demand for daily.

AA tried Cuzco in the late 1990s. The problem isn't demand, it is there, but the airport facilities are horrendous. I have no idea about the range of a 733, but an ERJ definitley cannot make IAH-CUZ. It is longer than, MIA-SEA, the longest US transcon flight
a.
 
Andie007
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RE: Whats Next For CO?

Thu Apr 07, 2005 9:18 am

Hopefully, coming back on the EWR-DUS route  Smile
 
ContinentalEWR
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RE: Whats Next For CO?

Thu Apr 07, 2005 10:24 am

I think EWR-JNB, EWR-SEL, EWR-KIX, EWR-Cork, EWR-BCN, and EWR-BSL are all distinct possibilities, but more widebodies, 777's or 787's are needed for some of these. BCN, BSL, and Cork can be flown with 75's.
 
goCOgo
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RE: Whats Next For CO?

Thu Apr 07, 2005 10:50 am

Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 12):
Wouldnt that be 75M not 72M?

Oops, I accidentally typed a "2". I did mean 5. It's been a long day. But I think the 757 is the only one with an m designation, so it shouldn't be that hard to figure out.
"Why you fly is your business, how you fly is ours"
 
Falcon84
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RE: Whats Next For CO?

Thu Apr 07, 2005 11:26 am

Quoting GoCOgo (Reply 8):
Maybe they will finally throw us at CLE a bone, and give us some intl. service. Perhaps year round LGW & AMS with the 72M?

AMS is the next logical choice, if there is a scrap thrown at CLE. I heard there were two international destinations that CLE could get, AMS was one, and the other one shocked the hell out of me-so much, that I won't even repeat it on here.  Silly
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
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STT757
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RE: Whats Next For CO?

Thu Apr 07, 2005 11:31 am

Quoting ContinentalEWR (Reply 18):
I think EWR-JNB, EWR-SEL, EWR-KIX, EWR-Cork, EWR-BCN, and EWR-BSL are all distinct possibilities, but more widebodies, 777's or 787's are needed for some of these. BCN, BSL, and Cork can be flown with 75's.

CO will most likely use their 787-800s for Asian markets such as Seoul, Osaka, Nagoya etc.. In the meantime there are plenty of 757 oppurtunities from EWR as well as CLE and IAH.

As mentioned..

EWR-
Basel (pharmeceutical traffic), Barcelona (tourism), Nice, Lyon, Newcastle and CO reportedly wanted in to Rotterdam but some EU laws are keeping them out.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
IAHTowTeam
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RE: Whats Next For CO?

Thu Apr 07, 2005 11:38 am

Well...one thing is for sure...we are going to take advantage of the open skies agreement between the US and INDIA. CO just announced non stop 777 service from EWR starting OCT.31. I was hoping we would make a move like this!
 
behramjee
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RE: Whats Next For CO?

Thu Apr 07, 2005 11:45 am

With India the next logical step is EWR-BOM nonstop which probably would happen once the B 787s arrive in 2009 or CO lease in extra B 772ERs earlier on.

Btw DL codeshares on EKs daily JFK-DXB-JFK flight...does CO too? If EK ever fly EWR-DXB-EWR, I would definitely expect a CO codeshare on that nonstop route.
 
CLEfan
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RE: Whats Next For CO?

Thu Apr 07, 2005 11:54 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 20):
AMS is the next logical choice, if there is a scrap thrown at CLE. I heard there were two international destinations that CLE could get, AMS was one, and the other one shocked the hell out of me-so much, that I won't even repeat it on here.

Well, I am very hopeful for AMS in 2006. It would be great and probably very profitable considering it would connect Mittal Steel's US headquarters and World Headquarters (technically in Rotterdam). In addition, there would be ample connection opportunities that London just cannot provide. But come on Falcon, dont leave us in suspense on the second possibility! At least just a hint!  silly 
 
Lt-AWACS
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RE: Whats Next For CO?

Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:03 pm

IAH-MAD would be nice one of these days, but I'll settle for the newly briefed Houston-Tikal flights  Wink

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
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cle757
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RE: Whats Next For CO?

Thu Apr 07, 2005 9:12 pm

My choices for CLE would be

1. AMS-probably the next intl flight
2. CDG
3. FRA-long shot
4. HNL-easily could fill up on the weekends
5. PDX-ran full during Christmas
6. SAN-year round
7. OMA-RJ
8. JAX-year round
9. SLC-year round
10. AUA-Saturdays
11. SAV-RJ
12.SHV-RJ
Cleveland the best location in the Nation
 
DAYflyer
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RE: Whats Next For CO?

Thu Apr 07, 2005 9:48 pm

Quoting Sam the Lab (Reply 14):
understand Continental are now to install winglets on 737-700 series aircraft so I cant help wondering would we ever see such aircraft on this side of the Atlantic?

Co seems to be spending a crapload of money on winglets these days.

I wish them well with the long term strategy.
One Nation Under God
 
drdivo
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RE: Whats Next For CO?

Thu Apr 07, 2005 10:40 pm

Quoting Sam the Lab (Reply 14):
Any of you folks in the know about Continental have any thought on what the chances could ever be of an EWR-Cork, Ireland (ORK) if and when the compulsory Shannon stopover ever goes

Seasonal service, starts 2006. Or, so I hear. My source has never been wrong, although sometimes the start of service is delayed.
Respectfully - the Divo
 
wdleiser
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RE: Whats Next For CO?

Thu Apr 07, 2005 10:51 pm

EWR-JNB? I really don't ever see that happening. First I dont think they have a plane that can directly make that.

So that would require them to go through AMS, LGW, CDG, or EDDF. They have a small presence at EDDF and I dont think their CDG or AMS is big... not sure how much the Parisians like CDG.

I think IAH-JNB is shorter (i have no factual evidence on my statement at all at this time) so if anything thatd maybe be a flight. But I doubt that.
 
goCOgo
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RE: Whats Next For CO?

Thu Apr 07, 2005 11:36 pm

Quoting Wdleiser (Reply 29):
EWR-JNB? I really don't ever see that happening. First I dont think they have a plane that can directly make that.

The 787 in a few years. There is no rule they have to be used in Asia, although that is a logical place for most. If they are planning on starting an African network, might as well go all out.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 20):
and the other one shocked the hell out of me-so much, that I won't even repeat it on here.

Come on. I come here just to read unsubstantiated and ridiculous rumors.  hyper  Please, pretty please!

Quoting CLE757 (Reply 26):
My choices for CLE would be

1. AMS-probably the next intl flight
2. CDG
3. FRA-long shot
4. HNL-easily could fill up on the weekends
5. PDX-ran full during Christmas
6. SAN-year round
7. OMA-RJ
8. JAX-year round
9. SLC-year round
10. AUA-Saturdays
11. SAV-RJ
12.SHV-RJ

1. Makes sense. Especially since they are losing 48 seats from downgrading to a 764.
2. Depends on if CO and AF can get immunity so there can be a full codeshare, and how much KL connecting traffic the AMS would see.
3. Doubt it. Probably out of 757 range, unless the 75M does more for fuel efficiency than is expected.
4. I'd love to see this flight more than any other. Maybe they could operate flt. 15 out of CLE and force the EWR passengers to connect for a change (a man can dream, can't he)
5-9, 11-12. All make sense, and I'd expect to see some of these before the international flights. Those 738s and last few 145s gotta go somewhere, and those are logical candidates
10. Another logical candidate, in range of a 737.

I fully expect to see more EWR expansion first. I think EWR-PRG happens before CLE-AMS.
"Why you fly is your business, how you fly is ours"
 
Stretch 8
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RE: Whats Next For CO?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 12:52 am

You must be kidding if you think Cleveland needs additional international service (or ANY international service, for that matter). CLE should be pared back to a smaller hub for CO.
Maggs swings, it's a drive deep to left! The Tigers are going to the World Series!!!
 
yul332LX
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RE: Whats Next For CO?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 12:55 am

E volavo, volavo felice più in alto del sole, e ancora più su mentre il mondo pian piano spariva lontano laggiù ...
 
Falcon84
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RE: Whats Next For CO?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:22 am

Quoting Stretch 8 (Reply 31):
You must be kidding if you think Cleveland needs additional international service (or ANY international service, for that matter). CLE should be pared back to a smaller hub for CO.

Well CLE does need at least another international destination, Stretch, despite your armchair QB observation. AMS would be a perfect fit, since it would be good tie-in to Skyteam, and, as CLEFan pointed out, it would tie in Mittal Steel's AMS headquarter with their US headquarter in CLE (they bought out IMG Steel). It would be a very good flight.

And just how the heck much smaller do you want CLE, may I ask? It's about the smallest hub in the U.S. If anything, CO needs to try and grow the hub, not shrink it, so it can successfully add some more destinations like AMS.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
CALMSP
Topic Author
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RE: Whats Next For CO?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:24 am

the only logical flights for CLE would be AMS & seasonal HNL service....and probably summer service to MEX as well. It sure would be nice just for one fo these to come through!!
 
goCOgo
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RE: Whats Next For CO?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:24 am

Quoting Stretch 8 (Reply 31):
You must be kidding if you think Cleveland needs additional international service (or ANY international service, for that matter).

We can dream, can't we? Anyway, I don't think more international service is that unlikey.

Quoting Stretch 8 (Reply 31):
CLE should be pared back to a smaller hub for CO.

Why do you say that? Just because CLE is small doesn't mean it can't make CO money. They wouldn't have just signed a 10 year lease if they didn't want to continue to expand here.
"Why you fly is your business, how you fly is ours"
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Whats Next For CO?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:24 am

But I think the 757 is the only one with an m designation, so it shouldn't be that hard to figure out.


Actually, the B-737-200C's designation is "73M" - so the "M" designation isn't unique to the 757.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
CALMSP
Topic Author
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RE: Whats Next For CO?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:29 am

i thought ATA was using 73M for their 737-800 business class planes..
 
N774UA
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RE: Whats Next For CO?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:59 am

Isn't M the designation for a combi?

N774UA
...follow his instructions, switch off at the stand.
 
CALMSP
Topic Author
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RE: Whats Next For CO?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 2:05 am

yea, KLM also uses the M for their 747 service to IAH!!
 
drdivo
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RE: Whats Next For CO?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 2:06 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 36):
the "M" designation isn't unique to the 757

75M is CO's internal designation for the wingletted, J class configured international 752s. In the schedule, a regular 752 is referred to as just that.

They have other distinctions for the 764 and the 764 - Hawaii/Air Mike configuration. These are not Boeing or industry labels.
Respectfully - the Divo
 
slider
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RE: Whats Next For CO?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 2:14 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 33):
Well CLE does need at least another international destination, Stretch, despite your armchair QB observation. AMS would be a perfect fit, since it would be good tie-in to Skyteam, and, as CLEFan pointed out, it would tie in Mittal Steel's AMS headquarter with their US headquarter in CLE (they bought out IMG Steel). It would be a very good flight.

I disagree....there is AMS service out of DTW and CVG just in the immediate region, as well as ORD. Also, one company does not economic justification for a flight make.

SkyTeam isn't a reason unless you can funnel enough traffic over CLE to do it.

I don't think we'll see too many more new markets announced by CO; there's plenty to try to digest now and get running.
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Whats Next For CO?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 2:17 am

Here's the SABRE response when decoding the 73M designation:

»w/eq*73m«
73M BOEING 737 JETPGR FRT¶
115-130 STD SEATS¶
»

This is definitely the -200C combi. There are some newer designations for the -800s, though:

»w/eq*73h«
73H BOEING 737 800 JET¶
112 STD SEATS¶
»
This one doesn't seem to make sense though, based on 112 seats.

So here's another:

»w/eq*73i«
73I BOEING 737-800 JET¶
175 STD SEATS¶
»
So perhaps 73I is the wingletted 738 designation for just TZ? The reason I ask is that AS has 738s with winglets, but there's no special designation loaded into the system that I've seen for them. Although as you'll see below, it appears the 73G has a special 73W designation that AS fails to use even though they're putting winglets on them too.

»w/eq*73w«
73W BOEING 737-700 JET¶
136 STD SEATS¶
»
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
CALMSP
Topic Author
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RE: Whats Next For CO?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 2:18 am

i think we could possibly see some more RJ expansion out of LAX.....our current AGU/MLM/BJX flights are doing fantastic. Possibly even some upgrade of equip.
 
dutch122
Posts: 65
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 6:53 pm

RE: Whats Next For CO?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:19 am

Hi Guys,

Stt757, Rotterdam has never been mentioned by Continental Airlines, but someone person Randy...... from Boeing did, during congress in the Netherlands in January.
If they we would start service to Rotterdam I would love to see a B737-800 with winglets, there is a huge market.

GoCoGo, the downgrading from B777 to B764 what do you mean by losing 48 seats, they don't lose 48 seats if i'm correct only 14.
Don't forget the additional flight CO103/102 this one is performing already well, just because of the departure time out of Amsterdam, it is a better mix. And they are probably able to increase revenue.

And for the future I can see eventually an B764 on the morning flight and a B762 in the afternoon.

Next destination I think will be BOM or JNB, think Europe will getting extra flights next year again and CLE-AMS is good option.

dutch122
 
goCOgo
Posts: 680
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 11:24 am

RE: Whats Next For CO?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:39 am

Quoting Dutch122 (Reply 44):
GoCoGo, the downgrading from B777 to B764 what do you mean by losing 48 seats, they don't lose 48 seats if i'm correct only 14.

Out of EWR

Current:
CO102 = 762
CO70 = 772

Summer

CO102 = 762
CO70 = 764

772=283 seats
764=235 seats

Loss = 48 seats.

IAH will remain twice daily with a 762 and a 764.
"Why you fly is your business, how you fly is ours"
 
dutch122
Posts: 65
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 6:53 pm

RE: Whats Next For CO?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:49 am

GoCoGo


Ok that way of losing 48 seats.The switch of equipment has to do with revenue reasons. And also putting the B777 into service on other routes where the demand is higher. Or it is just an increase of seats adding the 126 seats (174-48) of the B762.

IAH is only served 2 daily on Fr, Sa & Mo OB of Amsterdam till winterschedule with CO59/58 and CO47/46. Rest of the weekdays B764 and the departure times are different starting 10th June 2005 13.55 departure iso 15.45.

Dutch122
 
CALMSP
Topic Author
Posts: 2895
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RE: Whats Next For CO?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 4:30 am

the 2nd flight just started.....so in fact we gain 12 BF seats by adding a 2nd frequency.
 
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STT757
Posts: 13173
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RE: Whats Next For CO?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 5:19 am

Quoting Dutch122 (Reply 44):
If they we would start service to Rotterdam I would love to see a B737-800 with winglets, there is a huge market.

There is a huge amount of trade between Port Newark and Rotterdam, I was under the impression there's a major Company based in Rotterdam that has huge operations at Port Newark.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
CALMSP
Topic Author
Posts: 2895
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RE: Whats Next For CO?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 6:14 am

i think our next step should be GUM.......I would love to have a non-stop from here in IAH to GUM.......or atleast IAH-LAX-GUM....

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