dl021
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Who Is Boeing's "Mystery Customer"?

Thu Apr 07, 2005 7:09 am

In a recent interview Scott Carson said that he was able to get approval from Seattle to close a deal in 20 minutes

"Two weeks ago, Carson said, he was able to close a sale with a European customer in 20 minutes -- the time it took to get the OK from Boeing executives back in Seattle.

There was a time when that process could have taken as much as two days, he said.

Carson would not identify the customer, saying an announcement could come in a couple of weeks."


http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/218905_air06.html

as opposed to the multi day process it took just a few months ago. This interview was about Boeings streamlining of their sales process and how they plan to increase marketshare.

My question is this....what European airline just concluded a deal with Boeing to buy new airliners?

Anyone in the know here?


[Edited 2005-04-07 00:10:19]
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squirrel83
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RE: Who Is Boeing's "Mystery Customer"

Thu Apr 07, 2005 7:12 am

I wouldnt be supprised if it was Air France? But then again maybe it could have been a LCC? Possibly VS?

[Edited 2005-04-07 00:14:02]
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bhill
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RE: Who Is Boeing's "Mystery Customer"?

Thu Apr 07, 2005 7:13 am

Air France is interested in the T7 freighter.
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DfwRevolution
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RE: Who Is Boeing's "Mystery Customer"?

Thu Apr 07, 2005 7:18 am

Quoting Bhill (Reply 2):
Air France is interested in the T7 freighter.

This article is dated today, the AF order was announced several weeks ago. I would assume it's something new...
 
srbmod
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RE: Who Is Boeing's "Mystery Customer"?

Thu Apr 07, 2005 10:03 am

I'm going to predict that it will be a major order for the 787 to an established Boeing customer, either AF/KL or BA. I'm basing this on the quickness on the approval by Boeing's higher ups.
 
hoya
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RE: Who Is Boeing's "Mystery Customer"?

Thu Apr 07, 2005 4:18 pm

Maybe LOT decided to pick the 787 over the A350. Decision is supposed to be made soon. Anyone else in Europe publicly looking at new planes? Maybe a LH or BA 787 order.
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PM
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RE: Who Is Boeing's "Mystery Customer"?

Thu Apr 07, 2005 4:39 pm

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 4):
I'm going to predict that it will be a major order for the 787 to an established Boeing customer, either AF/KL or BA. I'm basing this on the quickness on the approval by Boeing's higher ups.



Quoting Hoya (Reply 5):
Maybe LOT decided to pick the 787 over the A350. Decision is supposed to be made soon. Anyone else in Europe publicly looking at new planes? Maybe a LH or BA 787 order.

I find it hard to see AF buying the 787 any time soon and KL are about to start receiving the first 6 of up to 24 A330s (not that I expect them to take all 24). BA hardly seem in buying mood these days though the 787 seems an obvious choice for them - ultimately. LH are known to be looking for a replacement for the 300-600 so could that be the 787-3? But, if he's talking about the 787, then LOT, Aer Lingus or another charter airline (TUI Group?) are the most likely customers.
 
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RE: Who Is Boeing's "Mystery Customer"?

Thu Apr 07, 2005 5:30 pm

Quoting Hoya (Reply 5):
Maybe LOT decided to pick the 787 over the A350

I'd agree though they only recently asked for RFPs to be re-submitted and that doesn't quite fit the time frame which is being spoken of. For approval to be granted in such a manner leads me to believe that Boeing got a "one shot" chance to "win" an order and took it. Be very interesting to see who this will be. However it could well be LOT after all. We wait again.......

Regards
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mauriceb
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RE: Who Is Boeing's "Mystery Customer"?

Thu Apr 07, 2005 7:38 pm

remember that a while ago that LH said to announce the 737 replacement in april? or do they suppose to order new planes in april 2006?
 
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shamrock350
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RE: Who Is Boeing's "Mystery Customer"?

Thu Apr 07, 2005 8:35 pm

I would think Aer Lingus and LOT are the likely airlines, but Aer Lingus has an all Airbus fleet apart from the odd 737.  Confused  Confused
 
BA380
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RE: Who Is Boeing's "Mystery Customer"?

Thu Apr 07, 2005 8:38 pm

I can't see it being BA at present. They are still going through the process of aggressively reducing debt.

LH seems to be on an Airbus move at moment and I see this continuing where planes are broadly comparable for political reasons.
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scotron11
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RE: Who Is Boeing's "Mystery Customer"?

Thu Apr 07, 2005 8:49 pm

Quoting BA380 (Reply 10):

I can't see it being BA at present. They are still going through the process of aggressively reducing debt.

BA's debt isn't that bad. Would be great if it was them, though.
 
B707Stu
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RE: Who Is Boeing's "Mystery Customer"?

Thu Apr 07, 2005 9:18 pm

I'm thinking its KLM, they love the T777.
 
cornish
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RE: Who Is Boeing's "Mystery Customer"?

Thu Apr 07, 2005 9:26 pm

AZ maybe - thanks to getting bailed out by the government again.....

Replacements for the 767s ???
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scotron11
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RE: Who Is Boeing's "Mystery Customer"?

Thu Apr 07, 2005 9:28 pm

Quoting Cornish (Reply 13):

AZ maybe - thanks to getting bailed out by the government again.....

BA & LH would have kittens! Would be a right laugh though.
 
DAYflyer
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RE: Who Is Boeing's "Mystery Customer"?

Thu Apr 07, 2005 9:41 pm

Whoever it was, great news. I hope we know very soon. I hope it is a 787 order for LOT.
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GLAGAZ
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RE: Who Is Boeing's "Mystery Customer"?

Thu Apr 07, 2005 9:42 pm

Its 2 for FlyGlobespan and 3 options  Wink Just guesing.
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cornish
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RE: Who Is Boeing's "Mystery Customer"?

Thu Apr 07, 2005 9:45 pm

5 new 787s for Cornish Intercontinental Airlines - to help launch Transatlantic services out of Newquay International.

JFK LAX MIA IAD SFO and ORD mentioned as initial destinations  Wink
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GLA MD11
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RE: Who Is Boeing's "Mystery Customer"?

Thu Apr 07, 2005 9:46 pm

I would rule out AF / KLM, not interested in 737s (AF has an all Airbus short haul fleet and KLM has enough of those) and using the A330. I cannot imagine 20 more 777 for them.
BA is a possibility: they have lots of 757 that will end up being retired at some point and they should start thinking about their replacement.
LH, they have all they need.
AZ is a possibility if their finances allow that.
 
PolAir
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RE: Who Is Boeing's "Mystery Customer"?

Thu Apr 07, 2005 10:11 pm

same here DAYflyer,

They need these new planes. Old once are ...old, dirty, leased. So how many is LOT wanting? 5-6? LOT would be one of first europeans to fly 787. They already got quite of bit attention from european spotters about first E-170's.
I hope they will design new livery for 787, old one is kinda boring already.
 
DAYflyer
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RE: Who Is Boeing's "Mystery Customer"?

Thu Apr 07, 2005 10:18 pm

Quoting Cornish (Reply 17):
5 new 787s for Cornish Intercontinental Airlines - to help launch Transatlantic services out of Newquay International

Wait...let me guess: They serve Cornish Game Hens for meals?  champagne 

Quoting PolAir (Reply 19):
I hope they will design new livery for 787, old one is kinda boring already.

Maybe either B or A will throw in a new livery design as part of the deal...we can only hope.
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wdleiser
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RE: Who Is Boeing's "Mystery Customer"?

Thu Apr 07, 2005 10:44 pm

Lufthansa is privately owned, they have a huge 747 fleet. All they want is for Boeing to add sidesticks and they'd purchase more Boeing products.
 
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RE: Who Is Boeing's "Mystery Customer"?

Thu Apr 07, 2005 10:53 pm

Quoting B707Stu (Reply 12):
I'm thinking its KLM, they love the T777.

How do you know?

Quoting BA380 (Reply 10):
LH...for political reasons.

Don't agree. And LH have said that they don't want to rely on just one supplier. Airbus don't offer anything that'll do the FRA-TXL shuttle (well, they do - it's the A300 but that's what LH want to replace) which is why they did some trials with the 757-300 a year or so back.
 
Btblue
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RE: Who Is Boeing's "Mystery Customer"?

Thu Apr 07, 2005 10:53 pm

How about bmi?  duck 

I read somewhere on here they are due to make a major announcement. That could mean anything.... Probably not an order for the 787 but worth mentioning.
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NYC777
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RE: Who Is Boeing's "Mystery Customer"?

Thu Apr 07, 2005 11:28 pm

How about Finnair, they have been in talks for, I believe, up to 8-10 787s.
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gokmengs
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RE: Who Is Boeing's "Mystery Customer"?

Thu Apr 07, 2005 11:42 pm

THY is also considering buying the 787 or A350. Hey they are profitable and decided to double the capacity.(they already ordered a mix of 737's-A330's and A320's) Knowing their purchasing behaviour they could go with a mix of 787 and A350's
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PanAm_DC10
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RE: Who Is Boeing's "Mystery Customer"?

Thu Apr 07, 2005 11:48 pm

Quoting PM (Reply 22):
Quoting B707Stu (Reply 12):
I'm thinking its KLM, they love the T777.

How do you know?

He doesn't, he has just expressed his opinion which he's entitled to do.

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 24):
How about Finnair, they have been in talks for, I believe, up to 8-10 787s

Good call NYC777 Cheers
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AirRyan
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RE: Who Is Boeing's "Mystery Customer"?

Thu Apr 07, 2005 11:58 pm

Wow, I'd like to have Scott's job - it must be a dream selling Boeing jets to airlines!
 
Ken777
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RE: Who Is Boeing's "Mystery Customer"?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 12:45 am

This is the fun time - waiting to see who bought, how many and what they bought. Since the article didn't mention which plane(s) were ordered it could be anything except a 747ADV.

As for BA, they might still be on the list. While they are aggressive in reducing debt now they would be looking at their projected debt position when deliveries are scheduled as a key factor in ordering.
 
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shamrock350
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RE: Who Is Boeing's "Mystery Customer"?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 12:47 am

Could well be bmi, but they are also an all airbus fleet.
 
Morvious
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RE: Who Is Boeing's "Mystery Customer"?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:05 am

Little off topic, but would the 787 fit a charter like Martinair? I thought they were looking for more 767's, would a 787 do the trick for them to?
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GLA MD11
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RE: Who Is Boeing's "Mystery Customer"?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:34 am

Quoting Morvious (Reply 30):
Little off topic, but would the 787 fit a charter like Martinair? I thought they were looking for more 767's, would a 787 do the trick for them to?

I would say brand new aircrafts are too expensive for charters like Martinair. Juste my 2cts.
 
Planesmart
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RE: Who Is Boeing's "Mystery Customer"?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 4:21 am

Could it be a 747/777 customer, with the mix of aircraft depending on whether it's a 747ADV/777 order (if the ADV goes ahead) or 744/777 if it doesn't? Hence the reason the order cannot be announced, as more 777's will be ordered if the 744 is purchased. Wait for Paris.
 
LifelinerOne
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RE: Who Is Boeing's "Mystery Customer"?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 4:52 am

Quoting Morvious (Reply 30):
Little off topic, but would the 787 fit a charter like Martinair? I thought they were looking for more 767's, would a 787 do the trick for them to?

Rumours are getting stronger here that Martinair is going to get brand new A330's, right from the AF/KLM-options that are already ordered...

Cheers!
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dl021
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RE: Who Is Boeing's "Mystery Customer"?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 6:10 am

Quoting GLA MD11 (Reply 31):
I would say brand new aircrafts are too expensive for charters like Martinair. Juste my 2cts.

Aren't two of the airlines ordering 787s charter outfits? BluePanorama and the First Choice?

LOT seems logical but I did not know Finnair is looking.....

I would dearly love to see this bird in LH colors.
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DfwRevolution
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RE: Who Is Boeing's "Mystery Customer"?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 6:29 am

Quoting GLA MD11 (Reply 31):
I would say brand new aircrafts are too expensive for charters like Martinair. Juste my 2cts.

Pleanty of charter carriers order new aircraft. Heck, the second customer for the 787 was First Choice/Blue Panorama

Quoting GLA MD11 (Reply 18):
BA is a possibility: they have lots of 757 that will end up being retired at some point and they should start thinking about their replacement.

The 787-300/800 is one hell of a 752 replacement, nearly 25-50% larger depending on configuration. The 757 will primarily be replaced by A32X series.

Quoting Wdleiser (Reply 21):
All they want is for Boeing to add sidesticks and they'd purchase more Boeing products.

Ha... so they say.
 
ua777222
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RE: Who Is Boeing's "Mystery Customer"?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 7:18 am

Is it possible for the 900X? Or is that not even off the ground yet. There were talks that this could be approved and cert. in less than a year... Only airlines mentioned to be interested were AS and possibly WN...

Just seeking out all the possible answers...

Thanks,

Matt
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ozglobal
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RE: Who Is Boeing's "Mystery Customer"?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 7:43 am

Who Is Boeing's "Mystery Customer"?

A European-based mystery customer? I know, he lives just down the street: The American defense attaché.
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
 
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PM
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RE: Who Is Boeing's "Mystery Customer"?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:48 pm

Quoting PANAM_DC10 (Reply 26):
He doesn't, he has just expressed his opinion which he's entitled to do.

Of course we are all entitled to express opinions (it's mostly all we can do  Smile ) but "They [KLM] love the T777." sounds like something based on facts rather than just a hunch (or a hope). I'd just like to know what this comment is based on. No harm in that, is there?
 
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RE: Who Is Boeing's "Mystery Customer"?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 4:24 pm

Quoting PM (Reply 38):
No harm in that, is there?

No PM there isn't though the way I read it, it was just a bloke expressing what he'd like to see. I guess the follow on order for 2 772ER late last year may well have influenced his thoughts.

Otherwise I agree, mostly, all we can do is express an opinion!  Smile

Regards
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RE: Who Is Boeing's "Mystery Customer"?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 5:05 pm

Quoting PANAM_DC10 (Reply 39):
the way I read it, it was just a bloke expressing what he'd like to see.

Me too which is why I'd like to see some evidence. (Not that I'm doubting in any way that KLM would be not be perfectly happy with their 777s.)

But on A.Net there are those who state what they believe to be true based on their reading of the evidence available ("The 777-200LR has better economics than the A340-500 and here are some facts to support my assertion...") and those who state things that are just hopes, wishes or guesses ("Boeing will obviously outsell Airbus in 2006...")

"They love the T777" could be either. "They [KLM] love the T777 because they said so in a press release dated ..." or "They love the T777 because I do and I bet they do too."

I'll take one seriously but not the other. Unfortunately, these things quickly become established "facts". "KLM love the 777. I know because I read it on A.Net recently..."

Sorry, this is a long reaction to a comparatively trivial issue but it's Friday, my office door is closed and I'd rather be doing this than what I'm being paid to do.

(Hands up out there all of you who feel the same way!  bigthumbsup  )
 
Morvious
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RE: Who Is Boeing's "Mystery Customer"?

Sat Apr 09, 2005 1:32 am

Quoting LifelinerOne (Reply 33):
rumors are getting stronger here that Martinair is going to get brand new A330's, right from the AF/KLM-options that are already ordered...

I already danced two round around my chair!! That would really be awesome. Especially in the new colors Big grin
have a good day, Stefan van Hierden
 
B707Stu
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RE: Who Is Boeing's "Mystery Customer"?

Mon Apr 18, 2005 4:40 pm

Finnair seems a smart pick. THe MD-11 HEL-JFK service is getting old and the 787 would give them, given my guess, repeat, my guess, at interior US traffic. HEL is very popular for SVO/St. Petersburg connections...
 
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PanAm_DC10
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RE: Who Is Boeing's "Mystery Customer"?

Mon Apr 18, 2005 4:56 pm

Quoting PM (Reply 40):
I'll take one seriously but not the other. Unfortunately, these things quickly become established "facts". "KLM love the 777. I know because I read it on A.Net recently..."

Well here's a fact we can both use. It wasn't KLM on the 777 given they just leased 2 more via ILFC. So, he at least got what he wanted, more 777s at KLM even if we are no closer to ascertaining who the Customer is... Big grin

Regards
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