Junction
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Why No In-cabin Pets On WN?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 12:03 am

I searched and didn’t see an answer to this anywhere, so I apologize if it's been answered before.
A scene from one of the "Airline" show reruns got me thinking. I can understand WN not wanting to hassle with a big dog in the cargo hold routine, but why not take a couple extra dollars from grandma so she can put Fifi under the seat like most other majors? (in an FAA approved pet carrier, of course) Just curious. Even HP does it now.
Thanks
 
777STL
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RE: Why No In-cabin Pets On WN?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 12:19 am

Maybe because they don't want to piss off other customers who have to sit next to said animals?
PHX based
 
FlyingTexan
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RE: Why No In-cabin Pets On WN?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 12:25 am

Yet another reason why Southwest makes money.
"Wouldn't your boss like to fly home nonstop at 4:30 on a Friday afternoon?" -Airline Exec to Congressional Staffer
 
Junction
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RE: Why No In-cabin Pets On WN?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 12:37 am

Quoting FlyingTexan (Reply 2):
Yet another reason why Southwest makes money.

Well, I'm not sure I get this. There have been a few times where passengers with tickets had to get refunds from WN because they showed up with little dogs. In all cases they were willing to pay extra to carry the dog or cat with them, so there must be a good reason WN won't do. What is it?

Quoting 777STL (Reply 1):
Maybe because they don't want to piss off other customers who have to sit next to said animals?

What about the passenger who was told they had to now buy a ticket on another airline because they showed up with the pet? Talk about pissed off.
 
bongo
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RE: Why No In-cabin Pets On WN?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 12:45 am

I'm against pets traveling in in cabin.... I mean... I respect people who likes pets, but they also have to respect people who doesn't like pets, it is just my opinion. : They should be travel in a safe and comfort area in cargo, with the optimum temp, nice cages, etc.
MDE: First airport in the Americas visited by the A380!
 
777STL
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RE: Why No In-cabin Pets On WN?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 12:46 am

Quoting Junction (Reply 3):
What about the passenger who was told they had to now buy a ticket on another airline because they showed up with the pet? Talk about pissed off.

Yeah piss off one customer with an animal, or piss off an entire plane of customers who have to travel with an animal that's barking, meowing, whining, crying, pooping, peeing etc. Which would you choose?

EDIT: Some people are also allergic to animals. Pissing off one person with a dog is much cheaper than having to make an emergency landing because someone is in respiratory distress.

[Edited 2005-04-07 17:49:09]
PHX based
 
Junction
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RE: Why No In-cabin Pets On WN?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 12:54 am

Quoting 777STL (Reply 5):
Yeah piss off one customer with an animal, or piss off an entire plane of customers who have to travel with an animal that's barking, meowing, whining, crying, pooping, peeing etc. Which would you choose?

Point taken. However, I don't think WN's reasoning is based solely on customer service. Does anyone know why they won't do it?
 
n844aa
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RE: Why No In-cabin Pets On WN?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:03 am

I am completely sympathetic to people who suffer allergic reactions to pets. I've seen that happen to one of my friends, and it's no fun. But I think it's overly restrictive to consign pets to the cargo area in all circumstances.

What about people who have to travel with their pets in the summer? Most (if not all) airlines won't accept cargo-ized pets when the temperature on the tarmac exceeds a certain level, and I wouldn't want to entrust my pet to an airline that did accept them in the heat of summer.

I think there's a happy middle ground here. Allow reasonably sized pets in the passenger area so long as they're in an approved carrier, have been adequately prepared for travel, and cause no disruption or unreasonable discomfort to other passengers. I certainly wouldn't want my pet to cause discomfort to anyone else, and would do whatever I can to ensure that he did not (such as obtaining a mild tranquilizer for him before the flight) but I also wouldn't want him traveling in the cargo hold.

Anyway, this is all my opinion. I am attached (perhaps overly so) to my animals, and I'm facing moving halfway across the country with them this summer, so no doubt that colors my take on the matter. But I just think there's a middle ground here where everyone can be a considerate traveler and respect everyone else's individual autonomy.
New airplanes, new employees, low fares, all touchy-feely ... all of them are losers. -Gordon Bethune
 
LPLAspotter
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RE: Why No In-cabin Pets On WN?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:05 am

The show "Airline" showed a non-consistant behavior by WN as they allowed a couple take a few turtles into the cabin, while another guy couldn't take his fish with him (on different episodes).

Quoting Bongo (Reply 4):
I'm against pets traveling in in cabin.... I mean... I respect people who likes pets, but they also have to respect people who doesn't like pets

I agree with you. I'll never forget this lady with a cat on a flight from ORY to LIS - all he did is crap during the flight - the stench was unbelievable.

LPLAspotter
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isitsafenow
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RE: Why No In-cabin Pets On WN?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:18 am

A lot of people are allergic to animal fur. Some folks cant be around dogs or cats without sneezing. Allergies are a funny thing and affect different people in different ways. Some asthmatics can't be near animals.
Its a wise move by WN. Seeing Eye dogs are a whole new chapter, though.
That is a perfect exception to the rule.
safe
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
 
noelg
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RE: Why No In-cabin Pets On WN?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 2:49 am

Quoting 777STL (Reply 5):
piss off an entire plane of customers who have to travel with an animal that's barking, meowing, whining, crying, pooping, peeing etc

And that's just the flight attendants!

 biggrin 
 
ltbewr
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RE: Why No In-cabin Pets On WN?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:09 am

I would suggest several reasons for WN's no on board pets policy.
- Carry on animals slow boarding/unboarding.
- WN's unassigned seating policy making it difficult to make sure FiFi the poodle or Felix the cat
or Iggy the Iguana has a space for them and the owner when their owner gets their turn to board.
- Animal wastes staining carpets, smells in cabin and additional costs to clean up same.
- Allergeries, especially with the unnassigned seating policy making it difficult to move/reseat people.
- Liability for allergeries, bites and so on.
- Some owners let their pets out on their laps, the floor, etc and annoy pax, put the animal in danger if turbulance
 
PHXFLY
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RE: Why No In-cabin Pets On WN?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:10 am

Quoting 777STL (Reply 1):
Maybe because they don't want to piss off other customers who have to sit next to said animals?

I was on an Alaska Airlines flight in August '02 from PHX-SEA. It wasn't a full flight (none of the middle seats were occupied). I was at in the window seat and she had the aisle. The dog whined the whole time during taxi and takeoff and about 30 minutes after takeoff she decides to put the damn carrier with the dog in it in the middle seat and ended up pinning me in and taking up about 4 inches of my seat width. She then proceed to use both her tray table and the one in the middle seat. I had to sit like this for about an hour until we could get up because it was a little bumpy. Eventually I was able to get up and get a flight attendant to make her put the dog under the seat. It was a miserable experience.

I remember when I was living in SEA and there was a little blurb on the news about a pig that got loose on a US flight during landing and proceeded to run up the down the aisle squealing and defecating on the floor.
 
jetdeltamsy
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RE: Why No In-cabin Pets On WN?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:20 am

Quoting Junction (Thread starter):
why not take a couple extra dollars from grandma so she can put Fifi under the seat

because grandma has a tendency to take fifi out of her cage. fifi has a bad habit of gonig to the bathroom when out of her cage. fifi also has been known to bite other passengers.

animals in the cabin are ridicilous. "service" aniamals, EXCEPT THOSE CANINES THAT WORK FOR BLIND PEOPLE, should also be ban. people have their PETS designated as service animals for panic attacks, diabetic attacks and a multitude of ridicilous excuses. if you're blind, your dog can go. if you're not blind, leave the dog at home.

imho
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
ckfred
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RE: Why No In-cabin Pets On WN?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:22 am

I know that AA's policy is 1 dog or cat per flight, and that the pet must be small enough to fit in a carrier that goes under the seat. Also, there is a fare charged for the pet.

I was talking to a passenger who had her dog with her, and yes, the dog does get AAdvantage miles. Unlike people, he doesn't have to worry about yield management putting too few AAdvantage seats on a given flight.
 
MGA
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RE: Why No In-cabin Pets On WN?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:24 am

Actually WN doesnt transport animals in anyway. Not Check in, Cargo or carry on style. I was trying to fly FLL-LAX with my cat last month and they said that they do not transport animals because they do not have a special permit required by the FAA (they said government). I had to buy a DL ticket plus a 50 buck charge for takin the cat as a carry on. WN really pissed me off...

MGA
Que viva el guaro, el dinero y los aviones!!!
 
LPLAspotter
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RE: Why No In-cabin Pets On WN?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:26 am

I got a FF bulletin from Frontier and they said pets get FFMs on their flights. I didn't read it, so I don't know the conditions.

LPLAspotter
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SWA TPA
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RE: Why No In-cabin Pets On WN?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:44 am

Quoting MGA (Reply 15):
Actually WN doesnt transport animals in anyway. Not Check in, Cargo or carry on style. I was trying to fly FLL-LAX with my cat last month and they said that they do not transport animals because they do not have a special permit required by the FAA (they said government). I had to buy a DL ticket plus a 50 buck charge for takin the cat as a carry on. WN really pissed me off...

MGA-

When you made the reservations on WN did you mention you were bringing your cat? Or did you just show up at the ticket counter assuming WN would take kitty?
If it's not just normal luggage you are taking along with you, you should always ask in advance to avoid a future inconvenience to yourself. On any airline, not just WN  spin .


SWA TPA  cutie 
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MGA
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RE: Why No In-cabin Pets On WN?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:52 am

Actually that was the return leg of my flight. I addopted the Cat in Florida...
I fly once every 2 weeks and I see people with pets on many airlines all the time. I had no clue that WN was the only one (at least I think) that didnt transport Animals (real ones)...

MGA
Que viva el guaro, el dinero y los aviones!!!
 
Bridogger6
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RE: Why No In-cabin Pets On WN?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:56 am

It is my opinion that most people DO know ahead of time what the restrictions are for Fifi on the airline they will be traveling on. At HP, we require documentation dated within thirty days (for both the outbound and return trips) and signed by a vet stating the pet is in good health. Everyone who has checked in a pet with me has had this documentation which leads me to think some of the passengers flying Southwest think they can get away with bringing a pet no matter what the rules say. It seems maybe they think if they bring the pet with them to the airport, the rules will change. I would imagine it to be fairly rare for a person not to know the rules about pets as far as their airline goes BEFORE bringing the pet to the airport; whether or not the person is airline savvy.
 
padcrasher
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RE: Why No In-cabin Pets On WN?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 4:03 am

You've got to understand the Southwest dogma. If they don't do it, that means it costs more money than it's worth. Period. This extends to assigned seating, IFE, pets on board, operating more than one model aircraft, accepting human remains, interline agreements, accepting larger sized cargo pieces. No changes to the business model. The old timers in Dallas know better. This is what has got them where they are today. No need to change.
 
MGA
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RE: Why No In-cabin Pets On WN?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 4:49 am

Makes sense Padcrasher...

Is there any other airline that doesnt allow pets in any area of their planes?

MGA
Que viva el guaro, el dinero y los aviones!!!
 
ntspelich
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RE: Why No In-cabin Pets On WN?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 5:05 am

Quoting MGA (Reply 15):
Actually WN doesnt transport animals in anyway. Not Check in, Cargo or carry on style.

Except for SeaWorld penguins. Actually, in addition to allowing sight animals, we do allow so-called "comfort animals." I'm not in customer service, so I don't quite know exactly how often this happens, but from what I heard it's very rarely. I guess some folks need a cat or some other animal to help them with anxiety. So, if you have a doctor's note or some type of certification you can have one of these animals in the cabin with you. I guess that they are looked at in the same way as a seeing eye dog.

And yes, I am still waiting to see someone board a flight with a helper monkey.

NTS
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jetdeltamsy
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RE: Why No In-cabin Pets On WN?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 9:37 am

Quoting Ntspelich (Reply 22):
I am still waiting to see someone board a flight with a helper monkey.

USAir created a ruckus last year when a pig was accepted as a companion animal.

i'd be pleased to see a monkey over a pig.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
AirframeAS
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RE: Why No In-cabin Pets On WN?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 9:48 am

Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 9):
Seeing Eye dogs are a whole new chapter, though.
That is a perfect exception to the rule.

Correct, WN has to comply with F.A.R.s and the Americans with Disabilites Act of 1990. WN doenst have a choice anyway.

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 13):
"service" aniamals, EXCEPT THOSE CANINES THAT WORK FOR BLIND PEOPLE, should also be ban.

Under the ADA Laws, they cannot be banned. This includes hearing dogs for the deaf as well.

Now, if WN really does NOT accept any animals on its planes whatsoever, they need to have their CSAs and their Rez agents address this to the pax no matter what to avoid confusion. They need to also add that to their website and on every itiniary that is purchased online, at the airport or over the phone. It has to be addressed, period.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
txagkuwait
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RE: Why No In-cabin Pets On WN?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 10:53 am

from the southwest website (www.southwest.com):

>> "Animals and Pets

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Southwest Airlines does not accept live animals in the aircraft cabin or cargo compartment other than fully trained service animals accompanying a person with a disability or being delivered to a person with a disability.

For more information regarding Southwest Airlines policies, please see the Contract of Carriage."<<
 
zippyjet
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RE: Why No In-cabin Pets On WN?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 11:28 am

I've been happily employed by FL for three years. And, I have not met a problem pet nor, experienced any issues save for one passenger who said they were allergic to them. From my experience, the passengers who travel with their pets tend to be nicer, cleaner and more considerate of their fellow passengers and us (crew members)! As a matter of fact, most of the pets that fly with us are a HELL OF A LOT CLEANER AND BETTER BEHAVING then many of the kids! Our passengers have to pony up an additional $65.00 to have their doggy or kitty fly our friendly skies. And, in these three years, I've never encountered any pet poop, piss or even any hairballs dirtying up any parts of our aircraft. Now, with many of the kids and their parental units, it is an entirely different story! Imagine idiots who are either too stupid or too lazy to clean up after their rugrat/incontinence bambino. Our flight attendants and cleaning crews have found diaper detriious inside the passenger cabin. WN is successful in what they do and we FL do quite well welcoming passengers and their small dogs, cats and some birds on board.  Smile



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hawk44
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RE: Why No In-cabin Pets On WN?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 11:38 am

Quoting MGA (Reply 21):
Is there any other airline that doesn't allow pets in any area of their planes?

US allows them but I think it's one or two animals per flight and it's 100 bucks and must fit under the seat in front of them.

US also transports animals in the cargo hold don't know the rules on that though, only seen it a few times and you know it because they have to let the dog out so TSA can screen the kennel for weapons.

Hawk44
Never under estimate the power of US
 
ntspelich
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RE: Why No In-cabin Pets On WN?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 11:50 am

Quoting Hawk44 (Reply 27):
US also transports animals in the cargo hold don't know the rules on that though, only seen it a few times and you know it because they have to let the dog out so TSA can screen the kennel for weapons.

I don't know why anyone would ever -ever- send a pet in the cargo compartment. Yeah, I know that it's pressurized and heated, but seeing someof those poor animals come out after their flights, god do I feel sorry for them. Espicially when I saw someone from DL put a rather larget pet carrier on the hood of a tug and then just watch if fall off as he was driving to the bag belts.

NTS
United 717 heavy, you're facing the wrong way. Any chance you can powerback to get off of my deice pad?
 
UAalltheway
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RE: Why No In-cabin Pets On WN?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 11:55 am

Quoting FlyingTexan (Reply 2):
Yet another reason why Southwest makes money.

Exactly. This is one of a million reasons why southwest does so well compared to other airlines.
 
sllevin
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RE: Why No In-cabin Pets On WN?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 12:03 pm

Being someone who suffers from asthma attacks triggered by pet dander, I'm glad Southwest doesn't allow animals in the cabin.

Steve
 
n844aa
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RE: Why No In-cabin Pets On WN?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 12:42 pm

Quoting UAalltheway (Reply 29):
Exactly. This is one of a million reasons why southwest does so well compared to other airlines.

Sure is. But on the flip side of that coin, it's indicative of why LCCs can't ever expand to 100% of the airline market. There will always be perks/services offered by the "full-service" airlines that'll keep them a legitimate, viable choice for some portion of the traveling public. The problem is that there are too many legacy airlines right now. Once the overcapacity problem is solved -- probably through one or more bankruptcies -- then the remaining legacies and the the LCCs will fall into a sort of equilibrium.
New airplanes, new employees, low fares, all touchy-feely ... all of them are losers. -Gordon Bethune
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Why No In-cabin Pets On WN?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 12:48 pm

Quoting N844AA (Reply 31):
Sure is. But on the flip side of that coin, it's indicative of why LCCs can't ever expand to 100% of the airline market

Nor can any non-state controled airline.

Quoting N844AA (Reply 31):
There will always be perks/services offered by the "full-service" airlines that'll keep them a legitimate, viable choice for some portion of the traveling public.

True... but I would say international and regional traffic before I decided to exploit the pet transport niche.
 
sccutler
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RE: Why No In-cabin Pets On WN?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:05 pm

WN's bread and butter are business travelers. Pets in-cabin are not something most business travelers would enjoy encountering, and of all travelers, business travelers are least likely to want to bring a pet. Declining to accommodate pets is unlikely to inconvenience the typical business traveler.

Another well-reasoned way Southwest kicks legacy fanny (and yes, I know "fanny" does not mean the same thing in UK-English areas as it does here in the US).
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
n844aa
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RE: Why No In-cabin Pets On WN?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:57 pm

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 32):
Nor can any non-state controled airline.

I never said nor meant to imply that a "state-controlled" airline could. What do you mean by that anyway? The legacy carriers, or something more socialist?

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 32):
True... but I would say international and regional traffic before I decided to exploit the pet transport niche.

Well yes. But you're mischaracterizing my argument. I'm saying this is one of many reasons (and, all in all, a fairly minor one) why the purely profit-driven airlines will eventually fill their niches without changes to their business plan. Don't get me wrong, it is an obviously workable strategy and will no doubt continue to reap great rewards for WN. But, a reductionistic approach to airline travel is insufficient to meet ALL the demands of the American traveling public.

Quoting Sccutler (Reply 33):
WN's bread and butter are business travelers. Pets in-cabin are not something most business travelers would enjoy encountering, and of all travelers, business travelers are least likely to want to bring a pet. Declining to accommodate pets is unlikely to inconvenience the typical business traveler.

Really? Business travelers? I always assumed that WN's primary customers were generally leisure travelers with the ability to compromise on their choice of destination/routing/airport. But maybe that's because I grew up and everything w.r.t. WN is so ass-backwards Big grin

Seriously, are business travelers the dominant customer for WN? I'd love to see some statistics on this. Not doubting you, just curious.
New airplanes, new employees, low fares, all touchy-feely ... all of them are losers. -Gordon Bethune
 
N200WN
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RE: Why No In-cabin Pets On WN?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 2:22 pm

Quoting N844AA (Reply 34):
Really? Business travelers? I always assumed that WN's primary customers were generally leisure travelers with the ability to compromise on their choice of destination/routing/airport. But maybe that's because I grew up and everything w.r.t. WN is so ass-backwards

Seriously, are business travelers the dominant customer for WN? I'd love to see some statistics on this. Not doubting you, just curious.

I just can't get over the fact that some people believe WN has been so profitable and successful via leisure traffic. Southwest has always been primarily a business airline and that is still what drives future market development.
 
n844aa
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RE: Why No In-cabin Pets On WN?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:14 pm

Quoting N200WN (Reply 35):
I just can't get over the fact that some people believe WN has been so profitable and successful via leisure traffic. Southwest has always been primarily a business airline and that is still what drives future market development.

Hey, look, I freely admit that my impression of WN is colored by having grown up and lived in Texas, particularly in the DFW area where you can't really fly WN any place that is both a.) useful and b.) outside Texas. But there are also a lot of valid reasons that WN is less-than-ideal for the business traveler (that is, apart from intra-Texas business travelers, who WN grew up serving and still probably serves better than any other airline.) These reasons include poor, virtually useless service to New York City, no international network, and no first/business class. Obviously none of these drawbacks are fatal to many business travelers, but these are also significant shortcomings.

So I am interested to hear the assertion that WN is a business-dominated airline. Like I said, I'm not doubting anyone here, and I know in some markets, WN is absolutely a business dominated airline -- I seriously doubt leisure travelers are filling the 30 flights a day between Houston and Dallas. But I'd also like some proof or references to back up such an assertion. Is that too much to ask?  Smile
New airplanes, new employees, low fares, all touchy-feely ... all of them are losers. -Gordon Bethune
 
swatpamike
Posts: 469
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 12:14 pm

RE: Why No In-cabin Pets On WN?

Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:20 pm

Hello all

Quoting MGA (Reply 15):
Actually WN doesnt transport animals in anyway. Not Check in, Cargo or carry on style. I was trying to fly FLL-LAX with my cat last month and they said that they do not transport animals because they do not have a special permit required by the FAA (they said government). I had to buy a DL ticket plus a 50 buck charge for takin the cat as a carry on. WN really pissed me off...

So you are pissed off because you didn't check WN's animal policy????

Cheers

swatpamike

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