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PanAm_DC10
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EK: Want Larger A380 For Longhaul LCC

Fri Apr 08, 2005 5:00 pm

I found the following report on Bloomberg but I don't have access to the German copy of the FT so I cannot access the full article. Seems interesting what they mention but if anyone can access the full interview it would be great to see exactly what Mr Clark said.

By Angela Cullen
April 8 (Bloomberg) -- Emirates, the largest Arab airline,
said a jet with 150 more seats than the Airbus SAS A380, the
world's largest passenger plane, would make a low-budget business
for long-haul flights viable, Financial Times Deutschland reported,
citing Emirates President Tim Clark.
Emirates, the A380's biggest customer, has examined the
possibility of a no-frills business for long-haul routes, Clark is
quoted as saying.
Airbus, based in Toulouse, France, has drafted plans for a
larger model, the paper said. It won't make a decision on whether
to commercialize the plan until 2006, the paper said. Emirates
would order such a plane ``immediately,'' Clark told the newspaper.


Would really appreciate if someone could get a full copy of interview

Regards
Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
 
Leskova
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RE: EK: Want Larger A380 For Longhaul LCC

Fri Apr 08, 2005 5:18 pm

Well - here's the link to the article, but it's in German...

http://www.ftd.de/ub/in/2520.html

Regards,
Frank
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Rj111
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RE: EK: Want Larger A380 For Longhaul LCC

Fri Apr 08, 2005 9:15 pm

I always thought an A389 LCC would be a good idea.

Imagine how low the CASM must be!
 
behramjee
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RE: EK: Want Larger A380 For Longhaul LCC

Fri Apr 08, 2005 9:31 pm

wont this adventure of Emirates come into conflict with their own mainline routes as the main routes that they can fill up with a 800 seater A 380 could be to India, BKK, MNL, CGK, SIN, LHR and maybe NYC. But most of these routes especially SIN, LHR and India are high yielding routes for EK, so wont it be a conflict of interest???

also EK is not the type to start a Low Cost No frills long haul airline...they will probably have an all eco class A 380 layout but with ptvs installed in every seat with dozens of tv channels like their present B 777-A 332 fleet has...maybe not 500 channels like the A 340s have...but definitely the same number of those avbl on the B 777s/ A 332s.

[Edited 2005-04-08 14:33:48]
 
agill
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RE: EK: Want Larger A380 For Longhaul LCC

Fri Apr 08, 2005 9:32 pm

Hmmm I wonder if this will end up in those 40 extra A380s we have heard about?
 
A350
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RE: EK: Want Larger A380 For Longhaul LCC

Fri Apr 08, 2005 9:41 pm

I think it would make more sense just to use A389s, put 11-abreast in economy, sell eceonomy class tickets very cheap, and make money because of the low seat-mile costs. I know they have a good onboard service, but I think the cost of the sevice is justified by the better network they get when they don't operate special LCC planes.

A350
 
behramjee
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RE: EK: Want Larger A380 For Longhaul LCC

Fri Apr 08, 2005 10:13 pm

I dread to think what EK would do if it was given an OPEN SKIES right to fly to any city in USA and INDIA as many times it wants and with any aircraft it so desires !!!
 
CanadianNorth
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RE: EK: Want Larger A380 For Longhaul LCC

Fri Apr 08, 2005 11:00 pm

LCC with A380 sounds great, but even with low fares is there really that many routes where you have 800+ folks all wanting to go to the same place at the same time on the same airline?



CanadianNorth
What could possibly go wrong?
 
agill
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RE: EK: Want Larger A380 For Longhaul LCC

Fri Apr 08, 2005 11:02 pm

CanadianNorth: If the price is right I guess it can happen. But it really makes you wonder how on earth they will fill all these planes they are getting.
 
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RE: EK: Want Larger A380 For Longhaul LCC

Fri Apr 08, 2005 11:13 pm

Quoting Leskova (Reply 1):
Well - here's the link to the article, but it's in German...

Thanks Leskova, I've just had a read of the article now, much appreciated.

Regards

PanAm DC10
Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
 
A350
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RE: EK: Want Larger A380 For Longhaul LCC

Fri Apr 08, 2005 11:34 pm

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 6):
I dread to think what EK would do if it was given an OPEN SKIES right to fly to any city in USA and INDIA as many times it wants and with any aircraft it so desires !!!

That is near to what will happen anyway. It will not be nonstop, but with one connection in Dubai. They will have to lobby for traffic rights, but finally, they'll get them and they already have some. And if they think they don't have enough rights, they use the A389. There is a reason why they ordered 40 A380s!

A350
 
Orion737
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RE: EK: Want Larger A380 For Longhaul LCC

Fri Apr 08, 2005 11:37 pm

Emirates really gets up my nose, almost as much as Virgin keep briefing the press on starting up airlines in every corner of the earth.

Emirates has its head truly in the clouds!
 
YYZ4RADD
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RE: EK: Want Larger A380 For Longhaul LCC

Fri Apr 08, 2005 11:46 pm

EK is an airline from a different world.....if they were allowed they will kill all the airlines in the world and eventually become a monopoly in the airline business. With customers like EK, Boeing and Airbus will never go out of business.

Already they are a monopoly in South Asia and Africa.....even in Europe to a point they are and certainly in the Middle East and Central Asia.

YYZ4RADD
 
zvezda
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RE: EK: Want Larger A380 For Longhaul LCC

Sat Apr 09, 2005 12:23 am

Quoting A350 (Reply 5):
I think it would make more sense just to use A389s, put 11-abreast in economy, sell eceonomy class tickets very cheap, and make money because of the low seat-mile costs. I know they have a good onboard service, but I think the cost of the sevice is justified by the better network they get when they don't operate special LCC planes.

Lower seat-mile costs enable higher loads. The A380-900 should be able to offer seat-mile costs even lower than those of the B747Adv. The key for EK will be getting a lot of people on the planes. At least for operations to India, China, and Africa, expect to see either 11-across or 12-across seating.  crowded  For North America, Europe, Australia, and New Zealand, EK will probably offer more generous seating.

Quoting YYZ4RADD (Reply 12):
EK is an airline from a different world.....if they were allowed they will kill all the airlines in the world and eventually become a monopoly in the airline business. With customers like EK, Boeing and Airbus will never go out of business.

Already they are a monopoly in South Asia and Africa.....even in Europe to a point they are and certainly in the Middle East and Central Asia.

YYZ4RADD, do you have any idea what the word "monopoly" means other than what you were able to infer from the board game? Your statement is absolutely false.
 
agill
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RE: EK: Want Larger A380 For Longhaul LCC

Sat Apr 09, 2005 12:29 am

Good thing to see that good taste still is plentiful here  Yeah sure
 
FA4B6
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RE: EK: Want Larger A380 For Longhaul LCC

Sat Apr 09, 2005 12:31 am

Quoting CanadianNorth (Reply 7):
LCC with A380 sounds great, but even with low fares is there really that many routes where you have 800+ folks all wanting to go to the same place at the same time on the same airline?

LOL yes! Have you seen the B6 flights to FLL? I say we get a few A380's to take over the JFK-FLL flights, and maybe do one or two MCO's  Smile
"Leap! And the net will appear."
 
leelaw
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RE: EK: Want Larger A380 For Longhaul LCC

Sat Apr 09, 2005 12:38 am

Quoting YYZ4RADD (Reply 12):
Already they are a monopoly in South Asia and Africa.....even in Europe to a point they are and certainly in the Middle East and Central Asia.

In order to be taken seriously, this thesis requires much elaboration, not a conclusory statement.
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
YYZ4RADD
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RE: EK: Want Larger A380 For Longhaul LCC

Sat Apr 09, 2005 1:01 am

Zvezda....I didnt refer to the board game to understand what Monopoly means...you might want to check your translator before starting to write personal attacks like that...

If you read my statment carefully...you will understand that EK wants to become the airline for the world....

If you didnt understand...here is the dictionary definition..EK fits right in that category...

If you dont agree with it...Its fine...you are entitled to your opinion

_________________________________________
mo·nop·o·ly (mə-nŏp'ə-lē Wink pronunciation
n., pl. -lies.

1. Exclusive control by one group of the means of producing or selling a commodity or service: “Monopoly frequently … arises from government support or from collusive agreements among individuals” (Milton Friedman).
2. Law. A right granted by a government giving exclusive control over a specified commercial activity to a single party.
3.
1. A company or group having exclusive control over a commercial activity.
2. A commodity or service so controlled.
4.
1. Exclusive possession or control: arrogantly claims to have a monopoly on the truth.
2. Something that is exclusively possessed or controlled: showed that scientific achievement is not a male monopoly.

______________________________________


I can't believe how personal people get over few comments such as that.....

Regards,

YYZ4RADD
 
BCAL
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RE: EK: Want Larger A380 For Longhaul LCC

Sat Apr 09, 2005 2:40 am

I think there are two reasons why an A380 would be unsuited for a LCC

  • The turn around time. How long would it take to unload 580 passengers and their baggage and then load up again with another 580 passengers and their baggage
  • Not many airports currently served by LCCs would be equipped to deal with A380
  • MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
     
    Rj111
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    RE: EK: Want Larger A380 For Longhaul LCC

    Sat Apr 09, 2005 3:34 am

    Quoting Zvezda (Reply 13):
    The A380-900 should be able to offer seat-mile costs even lower than those of the B747Adv

    I'm pretty certain the A380 will offer a lower CASM than the 744adv despite what Boeing says, unfortunately we'll probably never know?

    Quoting BCAL (Reply 19):
    The turn around time. How long would it take to unload 580 passengers and their baggage and then load up again with another 580 passengers and their baggage

    There' would be a lot more than 580 in an all economy A380 esp a -900. NH gets 580 in their 747D's, you could probably get 1000 in an A389, perhaps though EK will fit the plane with an LCC section and the other classes up front. Assuming these will be used on long haul routes, i'd imagine turnaround time is not as critical as shorter haul flights.
     
    kaitak
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    RE: EK: Want Larger A380 For Longhaul LCC

    Sat Apr 09, 2005 3:48 am

    Hasn't EK already said that one of its three configurations for the -800 would include a 644 pax aircraft (or thereabouts). If we knew the length difference between the -800 and -900, we should be able to make a prediction as to the likely configuration(s) and pax numbers of the -900.

    Does anyone have any info on the -900's dimensions?
     
    yul332LX
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    RE: EK: Want Larger A380 For Longhaul LCC

    Sat Apr 09, 2005 6:43 am

    Quoting Kaitak (Reply 20):
    Does anyone have any info on the -900's dimensions?

    The proposed length of the -900 was 79.4 m when Airbus was actively promoting all variants of the aircraft.
    E volavo, volavo felice più in alto del sole, e ancora più su mentre il mondo pian piano spariva lontano laggiù ...
     
    MaverickM11
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    RE: EK: Want Larger A380 For Longhaul LCC

    Sat Apr 09, 2005 6:54 am

    To everyone who moans and hollers when meals disappear from domestic flights...an A380-900 LCC network will do the same to the international long haul market.
    E pur si muove -Galileo
     
    behramjee
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    RE: EK: Want Larger A380 For Longhaul LCC

    Sat Apr 09, 2005 7:22 am

    Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 22):
    To everyone who moans and hollers when meals disappear from domestic flights...an A380-900 LCC network will do the same to the international long haul market.

    dont be silly...Emirates are not fools to get bad publicity by not serving meals on intl long haul flights to their pax. GF Traveller is what probably theyre going to base themselves like except having ptvs too in every seat...and GF Traveller too serves meals on all its AUH-India/Pakistan flights!!!

    Quoting Kaitak (Reply 20):
    Hasn't EK already said that one of its three configurations for the -800 would include a 644 pax aircraft (or thereabouts).

    EKs A 380s configured in a 2 class 650 pax layout will be used on high density lower yielding international flights that do not have much first class demand if any at all!!! These destinations include KHI, BKK, MNL, CGK, BEY, MAN etc...I would love to say India as the aircraft is aimed towards them too but it wont happen unless their airports first get upgraded to handle the A 380!!!
     
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    Starlionblue
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    RE: EK: Want Larger A380 For Longhaul LCC

    Sat Apr 09, 2005 7:36 am

    Quoting YUL332LX (Reply 21):
    Quoting Kaitak (Reply 20):
    Does anyone have any info on the -900's dimensions?

    The proposed length of the -900 was 79.4 m when Airbus was actively promoting all variants of the aircraft.

    And that (plus the engines) would most probably be the only significant change from the 388. The wingspan is already at the max imposed by the 80 meter box.
    "There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
     
    MaverickM11
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    RE: EK: Want Larger A380 For Longhaul LCC

    Sat Apr 09, 2005 7:54 am

    "Emirates are not fools to get bad publicity by not serving meals on intl long haul flights to their pax."

    Mmmhmmm...famous last words.
    E pur si muove -Galileo
     
    TWA902fly
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    RE: EK: Want Larger A380 For Longhaul LCC

    Sat Apr 09, 2005 7:55 am

    Quoting Behramjee (Reply 23):
    dont be silly...Emirates are not fools to get bad publicity by not serving meals on intl long haul flights to their pax. GF Traveller is what probably theyre going to base themselves like except having ptvs too in every seat...and GF Traveller too serves meals on all its AUH-India/Pakistan flights!!!

    i think he means that no one will effictively be able to compete against Emirates and their A380-900s, so say some airline flying the route with a 777 will have to cut meals to be able to match their costs...

    TWA902
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    MaverickM11
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    RE: EK: Want Larger A380 For Longhaul LCC

    Sat Apr 09, 2005 8:01 am

    "i think he means that no one will effictively be able to compete against Emirates and their A380-900s,"

    What I really mean is that the same competitive environment that exists in the domestic US and to a lesser extent the EU will be ushered into the long haul market by huge capacity low cost long haul flights...and that means service cuts across the board. We've already seen it on long haul domestic flights in the US. International flights are not far behind.
    E pur si muove -Galileo
     
    behramjee
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    RE: EK: Want Larger A380 For Longhaul LCC

    Sat Apr 09, 2005 9:47 am

    what I meant was even if EK has A 380s flying long haul in an all economy class layout, they will still have ptvs in every seat + offer meals. They may not however offer meals on flights of 1-3 hours long such as DXB-LHE, DXB-KHI, DXB-JED, DXB-THR etc to cut down on costs.
     
    DfwRevolution
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    RE: EK: Want Larger A380 For Longhaul LCC

    Sat Apr 09, 2005 10:11 am

    Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 26):

    i think he means that no one will effictively be able to compete against Emirates and their A380-900s, so say some airline flying the route with a 777 will have to cut meals to be able to match their costs...

    It's easy to compete with EK if they had an A389 LCC: you deny them overflight and landing privliges. Hard to fill those airplanes if you can't fly them anywhere, rock on protectionist economics.  Wink

    In all seriousness, the growth EK has planned (and the even more ambitious growth they are talking about) is unsustainable without a direct assault on an array of European and Asian airlines. EK is gunning to subjugate swaths of airlines' existing networks, and when airlines like BA, AF/KL realize that they can't sell a ticket east of TLV, fair trade is going to last all of three seconds.

    For the same reason Microsoft raises so much controversy, it's a commonly held belief that healthy economies thrive on competition not assault. If even half the nations on the peripherary of DXB say: "Screw this up-ity punk carrier with their A389," that plan is sunk. International trade is a delicate balance between making a tidy profit for yourself and not pissing the hell out of your neighbors. Irony of the day: a deranged scenario in which the UAE finds itself at the receiving end of a cartel for once  Wink
     
    AEROFAN
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    RE: EK: Want Larger A380 For Longhaul LCC

    Sat Apr 09, 2005 10:26 am

    just u wait and see what happens when the oil runs out. see how many orders they put in for planes then
     
    N79969
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    RE: EK: Want Larger A380 For Longhaul LCC

    Sat Apr 09, 2005 10:29 am

    This is an interesting idea. What markets could sustain year-around demand of that kind without much seasonality? I hope that everyone remembers to wear deodarant.
     
    Boeing7E7
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    RE: EK: Want Larger A380 For Longhaul LCC

    Sat Apr 09, 2005 10:51 am

    Screw them. First the 787, now the 380. How about they try and fill one plane first.

    Here's your peanuts and a coke, now shut up for 14 hours. No thanks.

    [Edited 2005-04-09 03:53:36]
     
    Lockheed1011
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    RE: EK: Want Larger A380 For Longhaul LCC

    Sat Apr 09, 2005 12:37 pm

    Boeing7E7,

    Thank you!

    What is up with EK? Do they want to screw up EU & USA? What is the strategy here? It does not sound good!  Sad I have a bad feeling about what EK is doing.
    OIL money is dirty money.
     
    jacobin777
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    RE: EK: Want Larger A380 For Longhaul LCC

    Sat Apr 09, 2005 12:41 pm

    I've posted before, EK's service has gone down the past few years..in fact, I've read that other Middle East Air Carriers (such as Qatar) have better service now.

    Also, those other air carriers such as Etihad and Qatar have also ordered the 380, and are trying to expand their places/countries (i.e business, tourism, etc).......maybe EK think they can be the first, fastest (and supposedly the best) to do it....

    As much as I love the Emirates (been there a few times), I think they are expanding waaaay too quickly....but hey, they have their own desert too!!
    "Up the Irons!"
     
    behramjee
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    RE: EK: Want Larger A380 For Longhaul LCC

    Sat Apr 09, 2005 12:59 pm

    Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 34):
    I've posted before, EK's service has gone down the past few years..in fact, I've read that other Middle East Air Carriers (such as Qatar) have better service now.

    Yes you are 100% correct, if u go to http://www.airlinequality.com/Forum/qatar.htm? you will see for yourself the excellent review comments left by passengers on literally every QR flight compared to EKs. QR is too a 5 star airline officially whilst EK is 4 stars!!!

    My mom flew last year DOH-LHR-DOH on the QR A 332s and she has flown EK too many times DXB-BOM-DXB, KHI-DXB-KHI, DXB-LHR-DXB on their B 777s and A 332s and she says that QR beats EKs standards of service and comfort anyday of the week!!!

    Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 34):
    Also, those other air carriers such as Etihad and Qatar have also ordered the 380, and are trying to expand their places/countries (i.e business, tourism, etc).......maybe EK think they can be the first, fastest (and supposedly the best) to do it....

    QR and EY have mainly ordered the A 380s I think for PRESTIGE and BRAND RECOGNITION purposes I feel...plus copying Emirates and wanting to compete more effectively with them in the region.
     
    777ER
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    RE: EK: Want Larger A380 For Longhaul LCC

    Sat Apr 09, 2005 1:10 pm

    An A380 operating for a LCC......oh boy. Just image all the emergency exits that would be needed. Real Ultra cattle class
    Head Forum Moderator
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    Propulsion
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    RE: EK: Want Larger A380 For Longhaul LCC

    Sat Apr 09, 2005 1:28 pm

    1.) Oil money is better than arms money  dollarsign 

    2.) EK are nowhere near being a monopoly, but do have a monopolistic advantage in certain areas and with particular routes/connections.  swirl 

    3.) What they will do with 43 A380s has yet to be seen, but we hope they heed the lessons from Mr. Trippe's excessive 747 purchases at Pan Am in the 1970s.  weeping 

    4.) I do not think EK's intentions are to 'screw up' the EU & US  confused , but to offer a highly competitive product and service by a respected company which is very successful. How their plans will impact the commercial viability of other airlines reamins to be seen. Remember, EK can make a mistake too, so their continued expansion could go one of many ways.  yes 

    Propulsion  veryhappy   thumbsup 
    A bus is a vehicle that runs twice as fast when you are after it as when you are in it.
     
    6thfreedom
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    RE: EK: Want Larger A380 For Longhaul LCC

    Sat Apr 09, 2005 3:17 pm

    FYI - The original article is in April 2005 edition of Airline Business Magazine.

    If my memory serves me.... Tim Clark said that 'an' airline could potentially use the A380 in an LCC config. I dont think there was a direct mentio to EK doing it, but I stand to be corrected!
     
    6thfreedom
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    RE: EK: Want Larger A380 For Longhaul LCC

    Sat Apr 09, 2005 3:18 pm

     
    jacobin777
    Posts: 12262
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    RE: EK: Want Larger A380 For Longhaul LCC

    Sat Apr 09, 2005 3:50 pm

    Quoting Behramjee (Reply 35):
    es you are 100% correct, if u go to http://www.airlinequality.com/Forum/qatar.htm? you will see for yourself the excellent review comments left by passengers on literally every QR flight compared to EKs. QR is too a 5 star airline officially whilst EK is 4 stars!!!

    i read those comments, and it does seem that QR is doing quite well and EK's service has lost some quality....

    that being said, all the reports stated that DOH's airport really needs some upgrading!!
    "Up the Irons!"
     
    zvezda
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    RE: EK: Want Larger A380 For Longhaul LCC

    Sat Apr 09, 2005 4:57 pm

    Quoting YYZ4RADD (Reply 17):
    If you didnt understand...here is the dictionary definition..EK fits right in that category...

    If you dont agree with it...Its fine...you are entitled to your opinion

    _________________________________________
    mo·nop·o·ly (mə-nŏp'ə-lē Wink pronunciation
    n., pl. -lies.

    1. Exclusive control by one group of the means of producing or selling a commodity or service: “Monopoly frequently … arises from government support or from collusive agreements among individuals” (Milton Friedman).
    2. Law. A right granted by a government giving exclusive control over a specified commercial activity to a single party.
    3.
    1. A company or group having exclusive control over a commercial activity.
    2. A commodity or service so controlled.
    4.
    1. Exclusive possession or control: arrogantly claims to have a monopoly on the truth.
    2. Something that is exclusively possessed or controlled: showed that scientific achievement is not a male monopoly.

    ______________________________________

    EK does not meet the definition of monopoly that you provided. They are not the exclusive providers of air service in South Asia and Africa. There are many other airlines in those markets.