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jfklganyc
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You Know What, I Like The TSA!

Sat Apr 09, 2005 2:46 am

I'm sorry, I just read another thread entitled "Bye, Bye TSA," celebrating a supposed dismantling of our nation's airport security team.

As a pilot who is well-hearsed on our nation's aviation system, the TSA is a BIG improvement from pre-9/11 screeners.

1. It provides a universal standard at every single airport in the nation.

2. Universal training, procedures, practices.

3. Employees who are more educated than previous screeners.

4. An incentive/pay program that attracts better screeners.

The biggest complaints I have heard about the TSA are long lines and short staffing . . . guess what, the TSA doesn't control this!

OUR U.S. government is responisble for underfunding this operation from day one. It is no secret that many Republican Congressional members and the President have been against the TSA since its inception. Now they will take it away.

My biggest argument against private, untrained, uneducated screeners without a universal front is plain and simple:

2-110 story buildings

4-Aircraft

1-Military Headquarters

and most importantly . . . 2000+ LIVES!

A return to the past repeats the mistakes of the past.

PJ
 
nycflyer
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RE: You Know What, I Like The TSA!

Sat Apr 09, 2005 2:59 am

You're bold to say this! I will respectfully disagree with you, but I will also say it's a little unfair to say that private security led to 9/11 happening. I think there are plenty of examples of TSA ineptitude out there that could potentially let a 9/11 tragedy to happen again. IMO, no security could have stopped what happened that day. I think if you're determined to hijack a plane with tiny boxcutters, you keep trying until you get it right, and ultimately you will.



I can't wait till ANCFlyer reads this and tells you how much he loves the TSA
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: You Know What, I Like The TSA!

Sat Apr 09, 2005 3:30 am

Quoting JFKLGANYC (Thread starter):
1. It provides a universal standard at every single airport in the nation

                          

You have GOT to be kidding! Universal standard/ Every Single Airport?

                          

Quoting JFKLGANYC (Thread starter):
3. Employees who are more educated than previous screeners.

I doubt that . . . seriously doubt that. Sure they may all have to be US citizens and be able to speak English, but I doubt the education level is any higher.

They are morons. Just as stupid as the idiots they replaced, only now they understand it when you tell them that - they just don't give you the 'deer in the flippin' headlights' look. Some are the same idiots - only NOW they are federal employees!

There is no consistency. Shoes at one airport, not at another. Hats at one airport, not at another. Belts at one airport, not at another. What frickin' consistency are you talking about? Consistently scerwed up - yup, that's the ONLY part you got right.

Underfunded . . . then explain to me why there were 39 nine of them for two - count 'em - two security lanes at ANC on 3/24/05 at 11:50am when I arrived. As an example of course. I count them each time - just to see how many are there. I'm curious as to how many their "doctrine" calls for and how many are actually doing something out of the 39 counted that day.

Quoting JFKLGANYC (Thread starter):
Now they will take it away.

GOOD! That's what you do with a disease - you get rid of it!

TSA=THOUSANDS STANDING AROUND=USELESS

[Edited 2005-04-08 20:33:27]
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: You Know What, I Like The TSA!

Sat Apr 09, 2005 3:31 am

Quoting JFKLGANYC (Thread starter):
2. Universal training, procedures, practices

I forgot this one. Please my reference to your #1 in the post above!
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: You Know What, I Like The TSA!

Sat Apr 09, 2005 3:35 am

BTW, the contract screeners had nothing to do with the events that happened on 9/11/01. The screeners at BOS that morning let items pass that were not on any "not allowed" list the FAA (then overseeing airport screening) had.

So we reacted by replacing one incompetent US Government Agency, with an entirely new incompentent US Government agency.

Quoting JFKLGANYC (Thread starter):
As a pilot who is well-hearsed on our nation's aviation system, the TSA is a BIG improvement from pre-9/11 screeners.

1. It provides a universal standard at every single airport in the nation.

No, it doesn't. The standards are only "universal" within each TSA District.

2. Universal training, procedures, practices.

Yeah, "feeling up" women who wear an under wire bra for weapons. Emptying baby bottle formaulars. Additional screening for Grandma, but no extra screening for Arab men between 17-40, because we don't want to offend them with racial profiling.

3. Employees who are more educated than previous screeners.

??? TSA Screeners are not required to have a high school deploma.

4. An incentive/pay program that attracts better screeners.

Yeah, we pay them more than they are worth. $30K per year, per screener, to screen baggage and passengers and threat everyone (except the 17-40 year old Arab men) like the terrorist we are.


BTW, most of the screeners hired by TSA came from the former screener contractor companies.

Look at how many TSA screeners who are now in jail for theft, or who had to be fired because they had prior felonies.

We were actually safer right after 9/11 when we were still using contract screeners, backed up by the Army National Guard.

Under the TSA we are actually LESS-SAFE, today when compared to the morning of 9/10/01, according to the GAO.
 
FLAIRPORT
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RE: You Know What, I Like The TSA!

Sat Apr 09, 2005 3:38 am

JFKLGANYC:
Welcome to my respected list. I agree 100% and I think the agents need to stay and the US should get one contract to a privat firm to handle the rest since the government can't really handle security too well. However, its the federal $ and the fact that they are government employees that make them so motivated, so don't change that.
NEXT FLIGHT: FLL-ATL-HPN on FL
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: You Know What, I Like The TSA!

Sat Apr 09, 2005 5:40 am

I will admit that the average TSA screening is better and more professional than happened in the USA before, but in Europe and Asia screenings are way superior, and have been that way for decades.

In the UK, which has been the victim of terrorist attacks for decades, the screeners are efficient and polite. No yelling, no herding of cattle. If someone beeps, no holding up a hundred people to let that person go through again. A respectful but very thorough body search. And none of this absurd taking the shoes off. If you beep, they check under the shoes. That's it.

How hard is that?
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
dallas74
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RE: You Know What, I Like The TSA!

Sat Apr 09, 2005 5:58 am

The TSA was a knee jerk reaction to a catastrophe the US Government should have prevented through our Intelligence networks.

After 9/11 there will never be a group of passive passengers - so no group that gets up trying to take over a plane will go unchallenged by the rest of the folks sitting in the cabin, therefore the need to screen passengers with a new high level security force was nothing more than a PR stunt.

The TSA is a joke. It screens passengers, but mail and cargo enter the commercial system with ease and no screening at all.

The Bush Administration is selling Snake Oil to the US flying public and the general population when a serious solution is needed to combat global terrorism. Our problem is not with today's airline passenger. It is with our failure to gather and understand intelligence and control our Southern and Northern Borders.

Creating the illusion that airplanes are safer does not mean they are.

It's sad that people accept the unreality of the current administration in Washington.
 
AirframeAS
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RE: You Know What, I Like The TSA!

Sat Apr 09, 2005 5:59 am

The one thing that DOES bother me is the overstaffing. Why do you need 39 TSA agents on duty for only two lines formed? Can someone tell me WHY you need 39 TSA agents on duty for just two lines open? In reality, I can assume that one line needs no more than 5-6 per line open. 1 for the x-ray machine, 1 for the walk through metal detector, 2 for physical pat down for selectees, 1 for bag search at the end of the x-ray machine and a supervisor for that one line.

So....why need 39 people for two open lines? Isnt that a waste of federal tax dollars? Can somebody explain this to me please?!

The second thing that annoys me the most is the theft problem. Those agents are thinking "Im a federal employee, nobody is gonna stop me from taking anything from luggage!" Until they're caught, arrested, jailed and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

So what gives? Theft and 39 people on one shift? Something smells fishy!!
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: You Know What, I Like The TSA!

Sat Apr 09, 2005 6:02 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 8):
So....why need 39 people for two open lines? Isnt that a waste of federal tax dollars?

Yes...
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
AirframeAS
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RE: You Know What, I Like The TSA!

Sat Apr 09, 2005 6:06 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 9):
Yes...

I thought so! I was being sarcastic....LOL!
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
gothamspotter
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RE: You Know What, I Like The TSA!

Sat Apr 09, 2005 6:34 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 4):
Yeah, we pay them more than they are worth. $30K per year, per screener, to screen baggage and passengers and threat everyone (except the 17-40 year old Arab men) like the terrorist we are.

$30,000 is not a lot of money for someone who has that level of responsibility. I agree that the lack of proper profiling is an awful problem, but it is a problem with all of our nation's security agencies who are afraid of the PC Police, not just the TSA.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 8):
The second thing that annoys me the most is the theft problem. Those agents are thinking "Im a federal employee, nobody is gonna stop me from taking anything from luggage!" Until they're caught, arrested, jailed and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

I would imagine the current crop of Federal screeners is a lot less likely to steal than the hundreds of ex-cons and illegal aliens who were fired when the TSA took over from the private security firms.
 
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STT757
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RE: You Know What, I Like The TSA!

Sat Apr 09, 2005 6:52 am

Quoting NYCFlyer (Reply 1):
IMO, no security could have stopped what happened that day.

The FAA mandating better protected Cockpit doors would have made it much harder if not prevented the events, there were several cockpit intrusions just prior to and right before September 2001 which should have all rasied flags of caution to the FAA to mandate stronger doors. The specific example Im thinking of is on a British Airways 747-400 flight somewhere over Africa where a deranged man broke into the Cockpit with the intent of crashing the plane, there were several other similar instances in the months and years prior to 9-11-01. While it was hard to envision what happened on 9-11, it was not hard to envision other types of cockpit intrusions (air rage etc..).

Quoting JFKLGANYC (Thread starter):
My biggest argument against private, untrained, uneducated screeners without a universal front is plain and simple:

2-110 story buildings

4-Aircraft

1-Military Headquarters

and most importantly . . . 2000+ LIVES!

A return to the past repeats the mistakes of the past.

Again a FAA order mandating airlines use stronger doors would most likely prevented the hijackings, or made them much more difficult as to force the terrorists to scrap the mission.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
vsmike
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RE: You Know What, I Like The TSA!

Sat Apr 09, 2005 6:58 am

Whatever.
Usless thread.
Requesting thread deletion based on implied ignorance.
Skyteam. Caring More About Me.
 
SESGDL
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RE: You Know What, I Like The TSA!

Sat Apr 09, 2005 7:04 am

I completely disagree with you. The TSA people who've screened me have been nothing but rude. I hope they all get fired. I've never been yelled at so badly before for not putting my shoes in a little box. How ridiculous!

Jeremy
 
CALMSP
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RE: You Know What, I Like The TSA!

Sat Apr 09, 2005 7:37 am

i had a lady here in IAH deny me access with my company ID......only until her supervisor came over and told her that i was to be allowed through, did she show any sort of common sense.....i love it, terminal b, i'm putting my stuff on the belt, and they yell at me take your shoes off, i said no there fine, sir you'll be sent to secondary screening"......i respond, "why", "b/c" (what a professional and educational response)....however once they see my badge they shut their mouth...what kind of consistency is that? i cant wait to get rid of them!!! good riddance.
 
apodino
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RE: You Know What, I Like The TSA!

Sat Apr 09, 2005 7:59 am

I am going to say this. The complaints about the TSA are legit, but they are better than what we had before 9-11 where you were paying minimum wage to people to screen. Obviously the level of professionalism needs to improve, but that was a problem before TSA.

My biggest issue with going back to private screening is this. We live in a capitalist society. The goal of switching back the private screener would be in my opinion to reduce the cost to the taxpayer. However, I have seen it time and time again in this country. Who ever was contracted to do the job would not be doing the job to keep us safe, they would be doing it for the money. And since there is no incentive for what they should pay, you will see $5.15/hour screening again. This is very dangerous in my opinion, because you get what you pay for. The biggest problem is because you are in a big hurry to hire so many people to fill all the needs, shortcuts are taken to make deadlines, and background checks aren't done as fast as they should be and applicants aren't screened as thoroughly as they should be. If you go back to private screening, you are only going to have this problem all over again, but because of the pay, you aren't going to get the best candidates, not that we are now, but it is better now than it was. The only way this can be resolved is with time and better oversight. It would be a lot easier if candidates weren't worrying so much about campaign funds and more worried about serving. Thats the biggest threat to democracy in the country right now.

My other big issue is the ticket passenger issue. This is intended to reduce delays at security checkpoints. I hope and pray that this issue can be resolved since I think the act of checking boarding passes seems to take time as well. I used to like spotting from the pier in Terminal C at BOS.

A message to congress, if we can't afford the TSA, how can we afford to pay for the paper hall of fame (no joke) here in ATW with taxpayer money, and all the other pork barrell projects in this country.
 
CALMSP
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RE: You Know What, I Like The TSA!

Sat Apr 09, 2005 8:11 am

why are they better? b/c of a federal title? many of these are the same employees that were there before 9/11
 
apodino
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RE: You Know What, I Like The TSA!

Sat Apr 09, 2005 8:19 am

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 17):
why are they better? b/c of a federal title? many of these are the same employees that were there before 9/11

All I will say to that is the fact that there were security agencies before the TSA that were so bad, they ended up being banned from screening by certain airport authorities. A good example is Argenbright at BOS.

Don't complain about the shoes. The screener was exactly right. One time I didn't take off my shoes and set off the metal detector and ended up in secondary screening. Dress shoes and many other shoes have metal parts to them that will set off the sensitive magnetometers. Better to be safe and take them off so that you can avoid the secondary screening rather than be held up at the checkpoint.

I will say this much though, if they shut up after you showed a company id, that really concerns me. Yes we work for the airlines, but the goal of the Checkpoints is to keep prohibited items off of airplanes. If they make exceptions for airline employees, that undermines the whole purpose and could lead to a problem. Just as much as might happen if we don't start screening all the cargo and the ramp vehicles and stuff like that.
 
NASCARAirforce
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RE: You Know What, I Like The TSA!

Sat Apr 09, 2005 9:42 am

The TSA protecting us, is just like forcing American citizens to now get passports when they go to Canada. Its pointless and not making us any bit safer.

Just like if a terrorist wants to get into this country, he is not going to go through legal checkpoints on Canada and Mexican borders and risk getting caught. He will sneak in through thousands of miles of unmanned border.

Why not just keep the pre 9-11 screeners (oh wait we did). Now we pay them twice as much to stand around and twiddle their thumbs. If the government wanted so badly to blow money in the name of "security", they could have bought the private companies the equipment, and enforced the same policies that TSA tries to now (yeah, we could have the private screeners search 80 year old women and 5 year old boys too). But we could save lots of government money by letting the private screeners do that, but no... everything is Spend, spend, spend.

I question whether we are really more safe.
 
uadc8contrail
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RE: You Know What, I Like The TSA!

Sat Apr 09, 2005 2:54 pm

what are all those perv tsa guys/gals in denver going to do if they go back to WACKENHUT or ARGENBRIGHT????they will follow the scent of teenage cheerleaders going to mco like they have done before...albeit for a reduced wage......GOOD RIDDANCE........
bus driver.......move that bus:)
 
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lightsaber
Crew
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RE: You Know What, I Like The TSA!

Sat Apr 09, 2005 9:51 pm

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 6):
but in Europe and Asia screenings are way superior, and have been that way for decades.

I agree! With the TSA, it such an inefficient system. Personally, I think the delays are killing USA aviation. Who flies less than 250 miles now? Not me!

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 6):
In the UK, which has been the victim of terrorist attacks for decades, the screeners are efficient and polite.

Very. And they can "pat down" anyone without creating undue stress. And when you're patted down, you know they'll catch everything!

Although, I never can get used to "bobbies" with assault rifles... But that's just my perception.  Smile

Like everyone else, I'm frustrated at waiting in lines for screeners who just do not seem to be doing their jobs. Why does it take so many per line?

9/11 won't happen again just due to the mindset. Pilots, f/a, and pax now know to defend the cockpit or else. Hijacking will never be looked at the same. I'm not saying don't have security; x-raying luggage actually makes sense to me.

Ok, rant mode off.
Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
Wingspan
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RE: You Know What, I Like The TSA!

Sun Apr 10, 2005 3:23 am

I like the TSA too. If they leave, there will be problems too many to list.
Over the years, I've found that common sense is not that common.
 
jetdeltamsy
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RE: You Know What, I Like The TSA!

Sun Apr 10, 2005 3:33 am

i place my own life in their hands every day.

i support their mission. i support their training. i support the staff.

the tsa has problems. i think a lot of people feel their space is invaded somehow, or that they're being told what to do, and they don't like it.

i think a lot of this uproar over them is about ego, not about real issues.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
atmx2000
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RE: You Know What, I Like The TSA!

Sun Apr 10, 2005 3:44 am

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 19):
Just like if a terrorist wants to get into this country, he is not going to go through legal checkpoints on Canada and Mexican borders and risk getting caught.

Well, they have tried it before, and they will try it again.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
cvg2lga
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RE: You Know What, I Like The TSA!

Sun Apr 10, 2005 4:36 pm

edit [ and ] will stand for quotation marks, my apologies, my keyboard is a bit battered these days.

background on me....ive worked at cvg for six years, two of them were in the terminal, and yes i thought that going through security was a waste of my time and always made me late, in truth it wasnt a waste of time and i was only late by my own fault, not allowing enough time to be where i needed to be!! and it wasnt a waste, always i was calling the airport police about bags being left in the sitting area of starbucks where i worked, i forget the year but a bomb did explode in a suitcase once in LaGuardia airport so hello folks it is for your safety, but then you dont care do you? for two and a half years i worked security at my airport through three different private companies, and for two years i worked security for TSA. Hi, nice to meet you all, my name is Dave and apparently im an incompetent, thank you dearly for bringing that to my attention for im too incompetent to figure it out for myself! i also worked for one of the airlines at my airport and had to deal with both pax and security so like most of the posts in here i am not spouting about something which i merely have an opinion of, albeit humble. i have working knowledge of airport security from the inside, not the outside like most babblers here. while i no longer work for the TSA, on my own accord thank you, i still support them and the screeners who take shit all day from pax who act stupid, while they still fight to protect your butts. kind of like the soldiers who get no respect when they come back from fighting our battles for us, elsewhere might i add...not here in the US.


[As a pilot who is well-hearsed on our nation's aviation system, the TSA is a BIG improvement from pre-9/11 screeners.]

first thank you as a pilot for respecting tsa and saying it aloud, you obviously arent one of the many pilots i met that made me think twice about joining the profession. yes the screeners are a big improvement, as they are trained better and more thoroughly with tougher guidelines.

[1. It provides a universal standard at every single airport in the nation. ]

not from what ive heard, but from what ive experienced yes. my key point here is that many airports have different threat levels. for example at one time, not so sure about now, but any flight leaving from my airport to DCA, no one was allowed to get up in the last 30 minutes of the flight, and there were announcements made about this even in the gate house.

[to screen baggage and passengers and threat everyone (except the 17-40 year old Arab men) like the terrorist we are.]

you obviously have no idea what you are speaking about, this is highly contrary to the guidance i received from my superiors. again im guessing you never worked for the tsa, how can you possibly know the procedures other than what is presented to you? i.e. handwanding selectee selections, btw simply buying a one way ticket isnt the only criteria that makes you a selectee genuises. and i know that from working at tsa and the airline i worked for.

[BTW, most of the screeners hired by TSA came from the former screener contractor companies.]

yea me for one. so whats your point? when AA took over TWA did you show up to the airport saying, some of these people came from TWA ugh! probably not, just becuase the company wasnt good doesnt mean the people werent.

[Look at how many TSA screeners who are now in jail for theft, or who had to be fired because they had prior felonies.]

look at how many CEOs are being charged with theft of millions from thousands of people. and im sure if you sit one day in a county court many people will be there for theft and have probably never set foot in an airport...theft isnt confined to the tsa nor is it committed by them all. this is how i always thought of it a) no matter what you think, there is nothing in your bag or pockets that i could not buy for myself, b) you dont have anything in your bag or pockets that could be possibly worth losing my job. hate to burst the self enclosing self important bubble.

[We were actually safer right after 9/11 when we were still using contract screeners, backed up by the Army National Guard.]
[Under the TSA we are actually LESS-SAFE, today when compared to the morning of 9/10/01, according to the GAO.]

agreed to the first sentence. military or law enforcement should be a permanent sentry at every checkpoint. as for the second sentence, i fail to see how that is true as in hindsight we know what was to happened the next day, doesnt anyone think for themselves anymore?

[If someone beeps, no holding up a hundred people to let that person go through again. A respectful but very thorough body search. And none of this absurd taking the shoes off. If you beep, they check under the shoes. That's it.]

right pull them aside the first time wand them and let the line get on. but apparently not everyone feels as comfortable as say you or i with a thorough body search, some have thier very good reasons, some think they just shouldnt because they are them go figure. but why is it so absurd to take off your shoes? most shoes have metal supports in the arches anyway that may or maynot alarm, why take that chance? and im certain that if someone has plastice explosives in thier shoes with out xray or explosive trace detection, you are not going to know it, so what do you do, let everyone pass with shoes on and hope they arent on your flight?

[After 9/11 there will never be a group of passive passengers - so no group that gets up trying to take over a plane will go unchallenged by the rest of the folks sitting in the cabin]

things will get through, it will happen, nobody can ever catch everything. so what you are saying is basically if a man gets up and stands in the aisle with a bomb strapped to his chest your going to rush him right? or if he holds up a gun or grenade you will open the overhead bin and let your overstuffed bag fall out and knock him cold eh? granted if he has a box cutter id charge him, i think we all would in that case or similiar. and we can talk to no end about what we would do but until we find ourselves in that moment we really have no idea.

[The TSA is a joke. It screens passengers, but mail and cargo enter the commercial system with ease and no screening at all.]

and how does that make the TSA a joke, becuase the congressman you elected voted against giving them money and equipment and oversight to do this with?

[Our problem is not with today's airline passenger. It is with our failure to gather and understand intelligence and control our Southern and Northern Borders.]

outstanding point, but they are all jointed together really.

[ So....why need 39 people for two open lines? Isnt that a waste of federal tax dollars? ]

do you know what exactly those 39 folks were doing? perhaps training for other airports? some might have been shift changing, trust me i know how overstaffing was, but as being one who was at one time included in the RIF (reduction in force) due to budget cuts, they have pared back screeners to a minimum in some airports even mine, where it might seem like there are alot of screeners on the push times but they are sometimes pulled from other terminals too and even checked baggage areas. funny you didnt bother to ask why there were so many if it concerned you so. and probably so a waste of imagination.

an [FAA order mandating airlines use stronger doors would most likely prevented the hijackings, or made them much more difficult as to force the terrorists to scrap the mission.]

in my opinion, opinion only, the FAA and airlines could at times be kissing cousins. yea the doors would have worked and do now, but the cost of what the airlines had to go through to do that is what prevented them from doing it before, also they have heavy lobbying power when it comes to spending money they dont want too.

[i had a lady here in IAH deny me access with my company ID......only until her supervisor came over and told her that i was to be allowed through, did she show any sort of common sense]

talk about lack of common sense, apparently all anyone has to do is obtain a company ID to get by you. she didnt think you were allowed access and rightfully denied it to you, should she let you go through if she doesnt think you should? no, thats why the supervisor became involved and cleared you hello! think McFly!

[however once they see my badge they shut their mouth...what kind of consistency is that? i cant wait to get rid of them!!! good riddance.]

why isnt your badge in place where it can be seen like it should be, above the waist on the outer most garment? how do you expect someone to see your ID all the time, often coats or ties cover them up anyways

Apodino...reply 16....well said.

[why are they better? b/c of a federal title? many of these are the same employees that were there before 9/11]

because of better more intense training, standards, requirements, attitudes, and believe it or not, alot of these people just like thier damn job ok.

[If they make exceptions for airline employees, that undermines the whole purpose and could lead to a problem]

i think that gentleman was referring to not having to go through secondary screening for not removing his shoes because he had an airline ID. that was standard procedure when i was there, not necessarily correct procedure but was what we were told to follow.

[(yeah, we could have the private screeners search 80 year old women and 5 year old boys too).]

this kind of rubbish talk is particularly annoying. think of this, do you think that a 5yo little boy is going to tell you that mommy or daddy put a gun in his pants so becuase he wouldnt be suspected? or that someone traveling with thier grandma who suffers from alzheimers going to suddenly become surprisingly coherent and tell you they had explosives strapped to them against thier will? put some deep thought into it, not snide remarks. i read a story in the paper a couple years ago where a baby was found travelling with its grandparent in MIA, in customs the baby was found to be a drug mule FOR the grandparents, stuffed with drugs. yea there ARE some sick people out there that will stop at nothing and do whats least expected. besides that how do i know this person is really 80yo? ever watch the golden girls? sophia or estelle getty in real life, supposed to be in her 80s on the show was the youngest of the four actresses, she was really only in her 60s at the time, and for a really good look at what im talking about read this book, The Lottery, by David Balducci.

thank yall for listening to me, none of my statements however sarcastic or intoned are meant to be personally directed hostility. simply statements from one longtime former screener who is tired of hearing all the BS from one side, who can finally say something in defense without fear of dismissal. peace be with us all and safety too.

ciao
DA
They don't call em' emergencies anymore. They call em' Patronies.
 
Boeing7E7
Posts: 5512
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2004 9:35 pm

RE: You Know What, I Like The TSA!

Sun Apr 10, 2005 4:45 pm

Quoting JFKLGANYC (Thread starter):
As a pilot who is well-hearsed on our nation's aviation system, the TSA is a BIG improvement from pre-9/11 screeners.

1. It provides a universal standard at every single airport in the nation.

2. Universal training, procedures, practices.

3. Employees who are more educated than previous screeners.

4. An incentive/pay program that attracts better screeners.

1. This is a policy issue.

2. This is a policy issue.

3. Bullshot. They're the same people and having had experience with them, they are not very bright.

4. Paying more doesn't ensure better performance. This is fact.
 
aa777jr
Posts: 2269
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 12:03 pm

RE: You Know What, I Like The TSA!

Sun Apr 10, 2005 6:48 pm

I agree with the above statement that the only reason that TSA exists is the Bush people flipped out that we got rocked on 9.11.01 and had to try and make everyone feel at ease with the big old papa bear US government protecting all their little cubs. Totally uSeless orgAnization. It's not hard to get absinthe back home. Someone should file suit on the government for the taxes we now pay for lame airport security. The little thread that everyone wants to believe we are so much safer now that we have TSA watching over us is the biggest load of it. The average passenger is extremely more informed of the risks they take when they fly now post 9.11.01. Thank the tax paying flyer, not TSA. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions though.

Regards.
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
ushermittwoch
Posts: 2537
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 10:18 pm

RE: You Know What, I Like The TSA!

Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:19 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 4):
BTW, the contract screeners had nothing to do with the events that happened on 9/11/01. The screeners at BOS that morning let items pass that were not on any "not allowed" list the FAA (then overseeing airport screening) had.

This is a correct statement and shows where the REAL DANGER lies. The FAA is the WORST agency in the Western World.
How often have they looked away, at known problems, until something happened because fixing it without a catastrophy happening would be "too expensive"?!
Where have all the tri-jets gone...
 
User avatar
kc135topboom
Posts: 11022
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:26 am

RE: You Know What, I Like The TSA!

Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:37 pm

Quoting Aa777jr (Reply 27):
I agree with the above statement that the only reason that TSA exists is the Bush people flipped out that we got rocked on 9.11.01 and had to try and make everyone feel at ease with the big old papa bear US government protecting all their little cubs. Totally uSeless orgAnization. It's not hard to get absinthe back home. Someone should file suit on the government for the taxes we now pay for lame airport security. The little thread that everyone wants to believe we are so much safer now that we have TSA watching over us is the biggest load of it. The average passenger is extremely more informed of the risks they take when they fly now post 9.11.01. Thank the tax paying flyer, not TSA. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions though.

President Bush was against building another incompetent government agency. It was all those "bright" people in Congress (both Democrats and Republicans) who wanted the TSA (yes, and their votes). Everything else you said, I agree with.

To CVG2LGA. Thank you for your commentary from a TSA Screener. Now that you have seen things from the TSA's view, try looking at it from the flying public's view.

Quoting CVG2LGA (Reply 25):
[ So....why need 39 people for two open lines? Isnt that a waste of federal tax dollars? ]

do you know what exactly those 39 folks were doing? perhaps training for other airports? some might have been shift changing, trust me i know how overstaffing was, but as being one who was at one time included in the RIF (reduction in force) due to budget cuts, they have pared back screeners to a minimum in some airports even mine, where it might seem like there are alot of screeners on the push times but they are sometimes pulled from other terminals too and even checked baggage areas. funny you didnt bother to ask why there were so many if it concerned you so. and probably so a waste of imagination.

Now, that is a bunch of BS. These "extra screeners" usually spend their entire shift there, except the ones who have to go outside the terminal to smoke. It must be nice to get an 8 hour break during your shift.

Quoting CVG2LGA (Reply 25):
[We were actually safer right after 9/11 when we were still using contract screeners, backed up by the Army National Guard.]
[Under the TSA we are actually LESS-SAFE, today when compared to the morning of 9/10/01, according to the GAO.]

agreed to the first sentence. military or law enforcement should be a permanent sentry at every checkpoint. as for the second sentence, i fail to see how that is true as in hindsight we know what was to happened the next day, doesnt anyone think for themselves anymore?

Actually, those are MY statements from reply #4

What that means is, according to the GAO (another US Government Agency), the Government Accounting Office, the bean counters, is the contract screeners were doing a BETTER job, at less cost, BEFORE 9/11/01, than the TSA is today.

The TSA screeners are not cops. They have no authority to order anyone to do anything. If a passenger refuses a request from a screener, a real police officer is suppose to be at the check point to settle the issue.


Get rid of the TSA, now!
 
cvg2lga
Posts: 427
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 11:48 am

RE: You Know What, I Like The TSA!

Sun Apr 10, 2005 10:52 pm

apparently you missed the first section of my post, where i stated that i have been on the other side of the fence. i used to go through security to get to jobs in the terminals when i was in school, so yea i know it can seem stupid pointless and a waste of time, point being its not. and we need to have the best people on the job, not the best bidding company. as well as having flown a couple trips from of course CVG2LGA and to DC once via DTW. so ive not been a screener during all my airport life you see. i know the frustrations, im not an unfeeling i have the ability to empathize. i just wonder how others would take it if every day they had many people tell them that thier job is worthless and they hope they get fired because they dont think your doing a good job. you have to remember, consistency leads to complacency. its good to keep things changing for its harder to know what to expect then.thats why you should just listen to the tsa folks, they know what they are doing and why, even if they arent allowed to tell you. its possible to serve jail time for sharing sensitive security information, so its not like they dont want to explain why this or why not that, they simply cannot. because who are you and what could you do with that info see?

ciao
DA
They don't call em' emergencies anymore. They call em' Patronies.
 
MQrampBOS
Posts: 105
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 2:39 pm

RE: You Know What, I Like The TSA!

Mon Apr 11, 2005 11:58 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 4):
BTW, the contract screeners had nothing to do with the events that happened on 9/11/01. The screeners at BOS that morning let items pass that were not on any "not allowed" list the FAA (then overseeing airport screening) had.

Not sure the screeners in BOS had anything to do with it either. The AA11 hijackers came through PWM. Think the UA175 hijackers came through another airport (probably PWM as well) because they would've attracted attention at BOS. Still, the list of banned items has grown since the TSA takeover. Problem is, a lot of those items are still getting through.
Don't put me on A7! I got out of the airport, so why send me back?
 
airlinelover
Posts: 5287
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 8:03 am

RE: You Know What, I Like The TSA!

Mon Apr 11, 2005 3:28 pm

1. It provides a universal standard at every single airport in the nation.
That's what they wanted to do but failed miserably, unless you look at their uniforms.

2. Universal training, procedures, practices.
Research showed that only 50% at best were properly trained for BASIC screening procedures. The rest got lost in the mix and the "certification tests" were often rigged to make sure the people passed. That, combined with a huge lack in training equipment shoots that down fast.

3. Employees who are more educated than previous screeners.
Again, incorrect. They hired more of the same incompetant ignorant idiots and kept 99% of the ones that were privatized before

4. An incentive/pay program that attracts better screeners.
That makes me laugh hardest. I've flown sooooooo many times since the TSA was put into service, and I have yet to see a good example of a "better screener" then pre-TSA. In fact, most seem to have gotten worse..

I'm surprised you didn't include:

5. All TSA employees and applicants were to undergo FULL background checks.

To which I'd respond:
They say that's what would happen, but it didn't. . They were too eager to get people on the lines.

---------------------------------

You like the TSA? I think you need to get your head checked. I will raise a glass the day the TSA is out of comission. They are a worthless agency draining the US Taxpayer dollars and SHOULD NEVER have been put into service.

Chris
Lets do some sexy math. We add you, subtract your clothes, divide your legs and multiply
 
Delta767300ER
Posts: 2436
Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2003 7:12 pm

RE: You Know What, I Like The TSA!

Tue Apr 12, 2005 6:42 am

It doesent take much to be a screener I take? I also heard rumors that some pre-9/11 screeners didnt even have H/S Diplomas/GED's.....

-Delta767300ER
 
airlinelover
Posts: 5287
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 8:03 am

RE: You Know What, I Like The TSA!

Tue Apr 12, 2005 6:49 am

the government can't really handle security too well.

At least FLAIRPORT got SOMETHING right.. They let scum like him stay on the streets stalking people.. The gov't obviously can't get security right.

Chris
Lets do some sexy math. We add you, subtract your clothes, divide your legs and multiply
 
Delta767300ER
Posts: 2436
Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2003 7:12 pm

RE: You Know What, I Like The TSA!

Tue Apr 12, 2005 6:52 am

LMAO Chris. He deserves the Loser of the month award. Back to TSA, How much do screeners make per year anyway? Seems like it would be a boring job. If I was going to work for TSA I would rather be airside/landside patrol or something like that.

-Delta767300ER

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