jayspilot
Posts: 237
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 12:32 pm

United asks for another 2 months to get organised

Sun Apr 10, 2005 2:27 am

United is going down and the righting is on the wall.(see below, what is this the 30th time they have asked for an extension) I hope they crash so hard, (not litterally) The way that company is run is soo messed up and how little most of there employees care about anything makes me not feel sorry for them.. There is too much capacity in the industry and i think cleaning out this old dieing beast will do just fine.



Reuters
UAL Asks for Time for Reorganization Plan
Saturday April 9, 12:06 pm ET


CHICAGO (Reuters) - UAL Corp. (OTC CTA (Switzerland)">BB:UALAQ.OB - News), parent of bankrupt United Airlines, has asked a federal bankruptcy court for another two months to file its bankruptcy reorganization plan without interference from other parties.


In documents filed with the court on Friday UAL asked for an extension of the so-called exclusivity period through July 1. The current exclusivity period is due to expire April 30.

The No. 2 U.S. carrier, in bankruptcy since December 2002, has been given previous extensions.

"An extension of the exclusive periods will enable United to continue its hard work and implement many of its restructuring initiatives," UAL said in the documents.

United, along with the rest of the industry, has been battered by soaring fuel costs, weak revenue and competition from low-cost rivals.

Also on Friday, the union representing the carrier's flight attendants said UAL's management is "refusing to meet the same rigorous standards that employees are held to." The Association of Flight Attendants warned the airline that it would terminate its collective bargaining agreement in 20 days if it did not fix the problem.

The flight attendants in January ratified a five-year labor deal that would save the airline $131 million annually. The deal cut employee wages by 9.5 percent.

As part of its agreement with UAL, the AFA retained the right to audit the company's numbers to ensure that employee sacrifices were equitable.

"It's completely absurd that we wouldn't be meeting our cost savings target on any level," UAL spokeswoman Jean Medina said. "We still need a significant amount of labor savings."

The airline has said it needs to secure $725 million in annual labor savings to exit Chapter 11
 
cumulonimbus
Posts: 508
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:13 pm

United asks for another 2 months to get organised

Sun Apr 10, 2005 2:34 am

Well wait to all the United supporters see this!!! Let me guess also that you work for another Airliine like WN. I see these topics all the time!!

Mike
 
AT502B
Posts: 329
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2004 11:17 pm

United asks for another 2 months to get organised

Sun Apr 10, 2005 2:43 am

Hardly a sign the airline is going to go under any time soon. They would be crazy to come out of CH 11,until they're ready with cost savings in place and hopefully the price of oil stabilizes under $50/barrel.
I love the smell of jet fuel in the morning.
 
BritPilot777
Posts: 998
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 10:05 am

United asks for another 2 months to get organised

Sun Apr 10, 2005 2:45 am

For the Love Of God stop with this United is going down bullshit. Im sure other a.net members along with myself have totally had enough of it.

It really doesn't matter if they are on the verge of shutting down, ANYONE who loves the Aviation Industry, and respects in it, Should Wish every God dam night that United survives. I sure as hell don't want to see 1000s and 1000s of people lose their job.

Studying to be a pilot I really don't want to see a MAJOR US airline go down as it would have severe implications to all airlines around the world.

Anyone else Agree?!

Moheet
Forever Flight
 
FlyHoss
Posts: 534
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 12:20 pm

United asks for another 2 months to get organised

Sun Apr 10, 2005 2:48 am

Jayspilot,
I'm no fan of UAL either, but take a more pragmatic approach (and a downer) please.
One, if UAL were to cease operations entirely, what makes you think that an LCC or legacy carrier wouldn't fill the gap? Is there too much capacity and thus too little pricing power? Yes. Does that stop anyone from starting another carrier and/or any other carrier from overexpanding (to fill that void)? NO!
Two, ask yourself why UAL's creditor's aren't filing their own (reorganization) plans. How has UAL been able to go this far in Chapter 11 without any attempt to emerge (I predict that corporate Chapter 11 laws will be rewritten after (but only after) UAL is done abusing them)? Are the creditors "in so deep" that they can't afford a UAL shut-down?
Three, does UAL have the Santa Claus of all bankruptcy judges? I think so, but again, the creditors aren't really pushing the issue, are they?
Four, wouldn't UAL and the other legacy carriers be profitable with more normal fuel prices? They'd (UAL) would be able to exit Chapter 11 then...
Where does it end? I don't know. Maybe someday (a couple of years from now) UAL will be forced to shed some assets and emerge or maybe be pieced off entirely. What also bothers me is that UAL has billions in assets (LHR access, the Pacific route authorities, too) but won't fund their own pensions, i.e. having (keeping) their cake and eating it, too while we taxpayers are forced to pay their pensions through the PBGC.
A little bit louder now, a lil bit louder now...
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

United asks for another 2 months to get organised

Sun Apr 10, 2005 2:51 am

This is really twisted. It's nothing other than an attempt by the author to write a catchy title so he can get people to click on it enough that it'll appear on the front page of a.net as one of the most popular threads.

Absolutely disgusting, cheap and tawdry.
International Homo of Mystery
 
WesternA318
Posts: 4465
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 11:55 am

United asks for another 2 months to get organised

Sun Apr 10, 2005 2:56 am

My thoughts exactly AeroWesty, although Ive been author myself of some previous threads on DL shutting down, Ive managed to learn my lesson and just hope that nothing happens to any airline, since I dont want to see 1000s of people jobless. Despite the fact that i always chose F9 and CO over UA or DL, I still wish those people all the luck.
Check out my blog at fl310travel.blogspot.com!
 
FriendlySkies
Posts: 3540
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2004 3:57 pm

United asks for another 2 months to get organised

Sun Apr 10, 2005 2:56 am

YAWN...any real news to report?
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

United asks for another 2 months to get organised

Sun Apr 10, 2005 2:58 am

Quoting BritPilot777 (Reply 3):
Anyone else Agree?!

no..i think its best that capitalism work its wonders........in the long run, it would be best for some consolidation, liquidations, etc.....that is what centuries of historical data has shown.........i'm not saying its going to be UA, but it will happen, even if oil goes sub $40....i doubt some of these air carriers will still exist.........law of the jungle..
"Up the Irons!"
 
BritPilot777
Posts: 998
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 10:05 am

United asks for another 2 months to get organised

Sun Apr 10, 2005 3:00 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 8):
no..i think its best that capitalism work its wonders

So all those job losses wouldn't bother you??? Would it bother you if you worked for United? Or your partner worked for them?! Hell, thats the most bullshit i've heard from anyone on a.net

Now, ANYONE Agree with that!?
Forever Flight
 
apodino
Posts: 3022
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:11 am

United asks for another 2 months to get organised

Sun Apr 10, 2005 3:03 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 5):
This is really twisted. It's nothing other than an attempt by the author to write a catchy title so he can get people to click on it enough that it'll appear on the front page of a.net as one of the most popular threads.

Absolutely disgusting, cheap and tawdry.

And he did this after I had started another thread on the exact same topic, but titled it as it was, United getting an extension. I don't know what the future holds, but I would rather not count any airlines out yet because you don't know whats going to happen in this dynamic world. After all my freshman year at ERAU someone said that TWA was in good financial shape but USAirways wasn't. In 2005, you know the rest of the story and Carl Ichan is now trying to milk Blockbuster for more money. (Sorry, had to get that in)
 
102IAHexpress
Posts: 898
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 6:33 am

United asks for another 2 months to get organised

Sun Apr 10, 2005 3:05 am

As I have stated in other posts I hope United emerges from bankruptcy and becomes profitable. But I think a lot of people are just fed up with their abuse of chapter 11 protection. From a tax payers prospective, why should I help pick up the tab on United’s failed pension program. And why should other airlines and their employees waste resources and needlessly compete against a failed airline?
 
exFATboy
Posts: 1887
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2003 11:15 am

United asks for another 2 months to get organised

Sun Apr 10, 2005 3:15 am

I don't think this filing is any harbinger of UA's imminent shutdown. On the other hand, I think this judge really needs to start putting pressure on UA to get on with it already...Ch 11 is not meant to be a permanent state of affairs. I can't help but think that UA management is deliberately abusing Chapter 11 at this point - they have been in bankruptcy proceedings over 27 months now.

What I would like to see is for the judge to go ahead and grant the extension, but also tell UA management that this is the final extension of exclusivity and that if they're not ready to file the plan on July 1, any interested and qualified party may then step in and file competiting reorg plans.

Now as FlyHoss points out, the creditors committee doesn't seem to be getting too worked up about the situation, which makes one suspect that they are indeed at a point where they can't afford a UA shutdown.

I don't know enough about bankruptcy law to know what would happen if exclusivity was denied, management did not file a reorg plan, but no one else did either. Would current management just stay in place, or is there some point where, if exclusivity is removed yet no reorganization plan is filed, conversion to Chapter 7 occurs automatically?

Chapter 11 definitely needs an overhaul - time limits, at the minimum, which would pressure major creditors to take a more active role, as GE and Deutsche Bank had to during the Air Canada case.
 
leelaw
Posts: 4520
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 4:13 pm

United asks for another 2 months to get organised

Sun Apr 10, 2005 3:15 am

To this point in time the Creditors' Committee hasn't been willing to pull the plug on an "exclusive reorganization plan." However, there will be a very contentious hearing on its motion to extend if UA hasn't garnered the support of its creditors for this extension in advance.
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
ifly2eat
Posts: 190
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:18 am

United asks for another 2 months to get organised

Sun Apr 10, 2005 3:20 am

102IAHexpress:

Amen to that. UAL has warped the US bankruptcy code from day one. They have added to the surplus capacity that the industry is suffering from, all the while under cutting fares of airlines who are trying to make a profit. At the very least give USAirways credit- they formulated a plan and tried to make it work. UAL does not even have a plan! Mark my words ATA and USAirways will exit bankruptcy before UAL does and UAL has been in it for almost 2 1/2 years.
Fly the friendly skys and stay out of mine.
 
TWA902fly
Posts: 2869
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 1999 5:47 am

United asks for another 2 months to get organised

Sun Apr 10, 2005 3:27 am

personally i love United, and i feel like no one can match their route system... think about it, as an airline that is supposed to represent the United States of America, they do a very good job. Hubs at the national capitol (IAD), the transportation hub of the country (ORD), the economic center of the mountain states (DEN), and the two largest cities on the west coast (SFO,LAX)... no other airline has matched that... i think they are a fundamental part of the american transportation system. If i consider one carrier THE american flag carrier, it would be United.

TWA902
life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

United asks for another 2 months to get organised

Sun Apr 10, 2005 3:33 am

Quoting BritPilot777 (Reply 10):
thats the most bullshit i've heard from anyone on a.net

from your point of view possibly, but my post wasn't incorrect, maybe you can't handle the truth (as Jack N. says to Tom C.)

Quoting BritPilot777 (Reply 10):
So all those job losses wouldn't bother you??? Would it bother you if you worked for United? Or your partner worked for them?

i never said i wouldn't feel bad for the United (or any air carrier) employees, but thats how a FREE MARKET ECONOMY works.....there will ALWAYS be winners and losers........

p.s.-how about zipping your dirty gob it while you are at it..  ziplip 
"Up the Irons!"
 
WesternA318
Posts: 4465
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 11:55 am

United asks for another 2 months to get organised

Sun Apr 10, 2005 3:33 am

Excellent observation TWA902, I never thought of it that way, and I always thought CO was great when they had EWR ,IAH, DEN and LAX as the major hubs. Do anyone else in here care to know that UA once had Cheyenne, Wyoming as a major connecting city way back in the 30s and 40s?
Check out my blog at fl310travel.blogspot.com!
 
jc2354
Posts: 601
Joined: Sat May 01, 2004 9:56 am

United asks for another 2 months to get organised

Sun Apr 10, 2005 3:35 am

Ladies and Gentlemen, we have a BINGO

Quoting FlyHoss (Reply 4):
Are the creditors "in so deep" that they can't afford a UAL shut-down?



Quoting Cactus739 (Reply 9):
This thread should be deleted.

Why?
If not now, then when?
 
avek00
Posts: 3155
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 5:56 am

United asks for another 2 months to get organised

Sun Apr 10, 2005 3:41 am

Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 16):
If i consider one carrier THE american flag carrier, it would be United.

Thankfully, we don't have official flag-carriers here in the USA, so every airline has to justify its continued existence based on business fundamentals and not on feelings of prestige or nostalgia. Despite all of the BS and hoopla, the cold truth is that even with the protections and relief afforded under USA bankruptcy law, United has failed to develop and implement a business plan that makes money.
Live life to the fullest.
 
bmacleod
Posts: 2442
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2001 3:10 am

United asks for another 2 months to get organised

Sun Apr 10, 2005 3:46 am

I thought DL was doing worse, they did lose more than UA last year; $2Billion wasn't it? In any case consolidation in the US airline industry is inevitable - one or 2 airlines will have to merge or shut down in order for the industry to regain profitability.
The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
 
Midway2AirTran
Posts: 847
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2003 7:34 am

United asks for another 2 months to get organised

Sun Apr 10, 2005 3:46 am

Quoting Jayspilot (Thread starter):
The way that company is run is soo messed up and how little most of there employees care about anything makes me not feel sorry for them.. There is too much capacity in the industry and i think cleaning out this old dieing beast will do just fine.

While I am an avid advocate of LCC's, do you have any proof outside of your opinion to support this?

*The DOT performance stats. show that United is doing fairly well compared to other Legacy counterparts in Customer service.

*Capacity at the moment may be a little at the high end, but passenger traffic is expected to nearly double over the next ten years, according to the US DOT. UAL's portion is in better position to exist to meet these future demands compared to other route networks.

I do believe that management at UAL needs to be streamlined and probably replaced in many areas to assist with efforts to achieve a rock-solid and innovative reorganizational effort that involves the cooperation of all levels. I do not agree with the current malicious exploiting of the bankruptcy process going on.
"Life is short, but your delay in ATL is not."
 
avek00
Posts: 3155
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 5:56 am

United asks for another 2 months to get organised

Sun Apr 10, 2005 3:53 am

Generally speaking, bankruptcy judges liberally grant exclusivity motions, based on the premise that debtors-in-possession are in the best position and have the most incentive to develop a plan that maximizes creditor returns and keeps the enterprise a going concern.
Live life to the fullest.
 
UAMAYBACH1239
Posts: 213
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2004 12:46 am

United asks for another 2 months to get organised

Sun Apr 10, 2005 3:53 am

Jayspilot

Your just as bad as US Air bashers, remember when airlines shut down, if they are an international carrier, you will slowly begin to see those plane gravitate back to the US. Creditors and Leasing companies have that right on where the want to position they're a/c. Look on a.net at any major city in the world or within th USA, UA has a presence now more than ever. Its only fair to express your feelings for United, remember that threads are saved and that
we can pull them up at any time . Just for a laugh at idotic threads.

Don't hate the player (UA) hate the game!!!  Cool
a/c flown 737-222/322/522 757/747-1-2-4, 767-2-3, 777-2-3, A319-20, DC10-10-30, L1011-3-5, 727-222adv, MD85-90 flyourfri
 
avek00
Posts: 3155
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 5:56 am

United asks for another 2 months to get organised

Sun Apr 10, 2005 4:11 am

Quoting UAMAYBACH1239 (Reply 24):
Don't hate the player (UA) hate the game!!!

The bigger they are, the harder they fall... Smile
Live life to the fullest.
 
Midway2AirTran
Posts: 847
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2003 7:34 am

United asks for another 2 months to get organised

Sun Apr 10, 2005 4:12 am

Quoting Avek00 (Reply 23):
Generally speaking, bankruptcy judges liberally grant exclusivity motions, based on the premise that debtors-in-possession are in the best position and have the most incentive to develop a plan that maximizes creditor returns and keeps the enterprise a going concern.

Yup, and it is up to the UAL management to synergize with the creditors on the plan.
"Life is short, but your delay in ATL is not."
 
Planesmart
Posts: 1716
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 3:18 am

United asks for another 2 months to get organised

Sun Apr 10, 2005 4:14 am

The judge has to take into account the best interests of ALL parties. If creditors support continued trading, and are willing to keep supplying, even against the delays in filing a sustainable reorganization plan, the judge will keep extending.

At some point though, a supplier may be in a position where they have to seek 11, or if already in 11 move to 7, and then it will be a completely different ballgame.

Best time to move any business into BK is when unsecured creditors are highest, which will result in the highest cents in the $ payout for secured creditors. In the airline business, that would be when deposits/prepaid bookings are highest, just before the peak travel season.
 
F9Animal
Posts: 3642
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

United asks for another 2 months to get organised

Sun Apr 10, 2005 4:18 am

UA is certainly in deep trouble. Any company that is in bankruptcy has no bragging rights. Except for the uppers, UA's employees are great people. I am saddened to see the employees suffer from piss poor management.

UA has taken full advantage of the bankruptcy courts, and now has taken advantage of the tax payers. I am beyond frustrated that UA has been allowed to pass off its retirement pensions to the US governement. That was a move that I found beyond jaw dropping. UA can't obviously take care of its obligations to run a clean business.

I do not want to see UA close its doors, but the judge needs to take a whip out and enforce UA to do more than it has. UA needs to start selling assets to pay its creditors, and needs to downsize its operations.

I think the judge needs to tell UA that he will not give UA any further extensions. I also think it is time for the big wigs of UA to actually do their jobs. Poop or get off the pot. If UA had the chance, it would hide behind the curtain of the bankruptcy judge for several more years. UA has had enough time to restructure, and they should have had the paycuts done in its first year of bankruptcy.

I applaud US Airways for its quick actions. US has actually changed the way it does business, and gotten the pay cuts from its employees. US has also shown to investors that they are serious about coming out of the bankruptcy, and they have millions being invested to keep them flying. If anyone deserves a bonus, it would be Lakefield. Tilton got a bonus, and what has he really done to deserve it?

Go ahead, flame all you want.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
avek00
Posts: 3155
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 5:56 am

United asks for another 2 months to get organised

Sun Apr 10, 2005 4:21 am

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 28):
I think the judge needs to tell UA that he will not give UA any further extensions.

Thing is, what good would that do for the Debtor or its creditors?
Live life to the fullest.
 
allstarflyer
Posts: 3264
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 7:32 am

United asks for another 2 months to get organised

Sun Apr 10, 2005 4:42 am

Quoting ExFATboy (Reply 13):
I don't think this filing is any harbinger of UA's imminent shutdown. On the other hand, I think this judge really needs to start putting pressure on UA to get on with it already...Ch 11 is not meant to be a permanent state of affairs. I can't help but think that UA management is deliberately abusing Chapter 11 at this point - they have been in bankruptcy proceedings over 27 months now.

What I would like to see is for the judge to go ahead and grant the extension, but also tell UA management that this is the final extension of exclusivity and that if they're not ready to file the plan on July 1, any interested and qualified party may then step in and file competiting reorg plans.

Best post. I don't care for the folks at UA to lose their jobs, but it's time for management to be put on the spot. Get some ideas as to "when" and "how soon" the airline will be exiting BK. There has to be a plan. Trying to accumulate enough revenue to offset losses and debt sounds like a good idea generally, but the specifics about it need to be laid out. Obviously, UA management knows this and probably has most of that under some kind of plan, but it's past time for UA to shed some light on how they plan to make it happen.

Quoting Midway2AirTran (Reply 22):
*The DOT performance stats. show that United is doing fairly well compared to other Legacy counterparts in Customer service.

*Capacity at the moment may be a little at the high end, but passenger traffic is expected to nearly double over the next ten years, according to the US DOT. UAL's portion is in better position to exist to meet these future demands compared to other route networks.

I do believe that management at UAL needs to be streamlined and probably replaced in many areas to assist with efforts to achieve a rock-solid and innovative reorganizational effort that involves the cooperation of all levels. I do not agree with the current malicious exploiting of the bankruptcy process going on.

You hit the nail on the head on both ends. UA is only staying afloat because of the work of their employees. Their management decisions have up-and-stunk for over a decade (succumbing to the pilots in '85, Allegis, UFS, succumbing to ESOP, Avolar, Shuttle [1st go-round], the attempted purchase of USAir and now TED [who needs an airline w/in an airline - just make your original product work]).

Quoting UAMAYBACH1239 (Reply 24):
Don't hate the player (UA) hate the game!!!

What if the player makes us hate the game? Can we hate the player then?

-R
Living the American Dream
 
UALramperORD
Posts: 165
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 8:59 am

United asks for another 2 months to get organised

Sun Apr 10, 2005 4:44 am

Quoting Jayspilot (Thread starter):
United is going down and the righting is on the wall.(see below, what is this the 30th time they have asked for an extension) I hope they crash so hard, (not litterally) The way that company is run is soo messed up and how little most of there employees care about anything makes me not feel sorry for them.. There is too much capacity in the industry and i think cleaning out this old dieing beast will do just fine.

I dont know about the rest of you but all I got from this guy was " bla bla bla Im a whinny little bitch"

UAL all the way baby!
"Roger, cleared to push spot 3"
 
TimRees
Posts: 298
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2001 2:09 am

United asks for another 2 months to get organised

Sun Apr 10, 2005 4:55 am

Quoting Jayspilot (Thread starter):
United is going down and the righting is on the wall

Pity you can't spell! It's writing not righting....
 
Midway2AirTran
Posts: 847
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2003 7:34 am

United asks for another 2 months to get organised

Sun Apr 10, 2005 4:57 am

Quoting UALramperORD (Reply 31):
I dont know about the rest of you but all I got from this guy was " bla bla bla Im a whinny little bitch"

Thats a little extreme, though the comments of the thread-starter were ignorant of many facts and lacked factual support.

Good to know that the employees defend their airline and support its cause.
"Life is short, but your delay in ATL is not."
 
UAopsMGR
Posts: 90
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 4:03 am

United asks for another 2 months to get organised

Sun Apr 10, 2005 5:04 am

Hardly worth responding to.
Kids, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try.- Homer Simpson
 
allstarflyer
Posts: 3264
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 7:32 am

United asks for another 2 months to get organised

Sun Apr 10, 2005 5:09 am

Quoting UAopsMGR (Reply 34):
Hardly worth responding to.

The post in general, I take it. Or is there someone in particular that amuses you? If you're in ORD, we've probably met (though, I doubt we might remember each other). I was one of the guys at the back of the SOC (when DH was around) a couple of years ago when we'd do the air-to-ground for our part of UX in Terminal 1. Looking back, I thought it was pretty cool working in UA SOC. Most folks were pretty cool there, especially cargo ops right behind us.

-R
Living the American Dream
 
F9Animal
Posts: 3642
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

United asks for another 2 months to get organised

Sun Apr 10, 2005 5:10 am

Quoting Avek00 (Reply 29):
Thing is, what good would that do for the Debtor or its creditors?

They would lose money. If UA were to liquidate its assets, at least they will get something. Right now, they are getting nothing. Investors have to be frustrated beyond belief. If I invested millions into UA, I would be furious.

Investment is a gamble, and investors understand that it poses a potential loss. It is all about odds, and I would like my chances better playing roulette. Perhaps it is time to accept the loss.

If UA got its pay cuts from its employees, and filed a reorganization plan, how long would it take for UA to post profits? Don't you think UA had 2 1/2 years to figure it out by now? Now we can blame it on fuel, but how about before the fuel went high? They did not have it right then, so what makes you think it would change with another extension? 2 months will really prove to be another turning point for UA?

Everytime UA gets an extension, it is equivalent to getting another electric shock to a stopped heart. How many more electric shocks will it take to get UA's stopped heart pumping again? We know that fuel is not going to go down anytime soon, and perhaps it will even jump much higher. In fact, the fuel is expected to remain in the $55-$60 p/b range perhaps for good. Can UA lower its costs to meet that fuel cost? Should UA just drop its employee pay to minimum wage? Maybe offer its pilots $10.00 per flight hour? Then what? What can UA take from next? They have targeted its employees since the beginning of the bankruptcy. Is the employee the reason they are losing money?

UA laid back while the LCC's grew. Now suddenly they are trying to fight head on? Poor timing if you ask me. Granted I work for a direct competitor, I sit back and look at TED and laugh my Animal Tail off. Nothing is low cost about TED. The flight crews make the same, and the ground workers make the same. The only thing low cost about TED is the ticket prices. TED is not making UA find the black, and TED is nothing more than a way for UA to fight a battle it lost several years ago. You would have thought they learned when Shuttle was a loss. Now they roll out with United PS? It seems like they are completley confused and lost. How many paint jobs does UA need to have before they realize that it is additional costs to the bottom line? I would have thought they would avoid painting and focus on getting profitable. What was the new fleet paint trying to prove? A new image? Perhaps they should just paint the planes red.

When I worked for UA in the '90's, UA said that Shuttle was a complete success. Then suddenly I opened the USA today, and realized they had pulled the plug on it. I look back at several other airlines that tried the Airline within an Airline approach, and how many were successful? I still see United Shuttle planes flying around. Amazing how almost 5 years ago they pulled the plug, and the planes are still wearing it. Seems like UA can't figure it out.

[Edited 2005-04-09 22:27:03] Edited for spelling

[Edited 2005-04-09 22:39:44]
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
nisson
Posts: 58
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:21 am

United asks for another 2 months to get organised

Sun Apr 10, 2005 5:15 am

Jayspilot(thread stater), go back to school, or have you ever been to school?, before you start your whinning.
 
UAopsMGR
Posts: 90
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 4:03 am

United asks for another 2 months to get organised

Sun Apr 10, 2005 5:29 am

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 35):
The post in general, I take it. Or is there someone in particular that amuses you? If you're in ORD, we've probably met (though, I doubt we might remember each other). I was one of the guys at the back of the SOC (when DH was around) a couple of years ago when we'd do the air-to-ground for our part of UX in Terminal 1

Allstarflyer,

Yes I was referring to the post in general.

I worked at the LAX SOC for just over 2 yrs until late last month I switched to Onboard. Boy I miss the morning conference call with OPB !!

Ciao
Kids, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try.- Homer Simpson
 
mtyfreak
Posts: 335
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2004 1:03 am

United asks for another 2 months to get organised

Sun Apr 10, 2005 5:45 am

If United was going down it would be down by now,

Everything can be done with talented executives, it doesn´t matter how much the company shrinks, United is staying.





Just my very own personal opinion.
Only here for the beer...
 
allstarflyer
Posts: 3264
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 7:32 am

United asks for another 2 months to get organised

Sun Apr 10, 2005 5:55 am

Quoting UAopsMGR (Reply 38):
I worked at the LAX SOC for just over 2 yrs until late last month I switched to Onboard. Boy I miss the morning conference call with OPB !!

I didn't work often in the morning (mainly in the evening with DH, and a few times as Shift Mgr. overnight for ZW - they stuck me in T1 at 1st during that experiment), but when I did, I'd see a couple of the guys at the front in the middle get ready for some conference call(s). Kind of a long call, sometimes, if I remember (I guess it would have to be - I think they were on the line with several cities in like up to 8 time zones - I might be wrong on that one, though).
Living the American Dream
 
TWA902fly
Posts: 2869
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 1999 5:47 am

United asks for another 2 months to get organised

Sun Apr 10, 2005 6:16 am

Quoting Avek00 (Reply 20):
Thankfully, we don't have official flag-carriers here in the USA, so every airline has to justify its continued existence based on business fundamentals and not on feelings of prestige or nostalgia. Despite all of the BS and hoopla, the cold truth is that even with the protections and relief afforded under USA bankruptcy law, United has failed to develop and implement a business plan that makes money.

I understand that, and i wasn't saying that that is a reason United should survive, i was pointing out that in my opinion they do a good job of connecting the United states as well as international destinations. And yeah we do have flag-carriers in the United states, there is just more than one, and to be an "official" flag-carrier you have to be awarded that right, the latest one i believe was Frontier.

TWA902
life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
 
fhgandi
Posts: 32
Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2004 12:28 am

United asks for another 2 months to get organised

Sun Apr 10, 2005 6:38 am

To be honest with you guys:

Here in Europe, nobody but Lufthansa will loose something in Alliances and major codeshare revenue if US Airways and United will go under.

I doubt that LH has the force to protect US and UA in these days.

Therefore, it is in particular obvious that LH starts to increase its relations to the US. Have a look at the flights from FRA and especially from MUC in last years.

Personally, I do not see any reason why UA and US should survive if they are not successful. LH will find another partner in the US. I am pretty sure about this. There are a lot of other airlines in the US who are really looking for some extra business... They just need it!!
 
trident2e
Posts: 1286
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2003 3:38 am

United asks for another 2 months to get organised

Sun Apr 10, 2005 6:45 am

Quoting Jayspilot (Thread starter):
United is going down and the righting is on the wall

And maybe even the writing!
 
jayspilot
Posts: 237
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 12:32 pm

United asks for another 2 months to get organised

Sun Apr 10, 2005 6:50 am

my employer is ZW. Air wisconsin. And i say rip united b/c thats what i hope happens to them. I am sure some of you work for the airlines and some of you don't, but unless you are directly involved with united or one of the other express carriers you would not have a clue how f..ked up this whole situation is. I'm speaking my opinion and i'm sure the opinion of my 5000 co workers at zw and the 5000 or so DH employees and those united furloughed mechanics or pilots, and everyone else that united has thrown away along the way. everyone can get pissed at me all they want but this company is rewriting bankruptcy code as it goes and have really pissed off their own pilots, flt attendants, mechanics and everryother organized labor group. i just hope you aren't traveling through ord this summer or fall / b/c its going to be worse then it was when aca left..
 
nycflyer
Posts: 1288
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2005 1:23 am

United asks for another 2 months to get organised

Sun Apr 10, 2005 6:55 am

Quoting BritPilot777 (Reply 3):
It really doesn't matter if they are on the verge of shutting down, ANYONE who loves the Aviation Industry, and respects in it, Should Wish every God dam night that United survives.

I don't wish any harm on UA, but I do take issue with the comment that I've quoted here. People always say this whenever there's a thread about "I hope X airline goes under."

To love the aviation industry is to want a HEALTHY aviation industry. I love the aviation industry, but I share the belief of many that a major carrier needs to go out of business for the betterment of all. Of course I don't wish unemployement upon anyone, but I'm speaking solely from a practical business perspective. The reality is, in my opinion: there's too much capacity.

You can love the industry, and love airline employees, and still hold the view that a major carrier should go under for the betterment of the industry. And you shouldn't have to be criticized for that.
 
avek00
Posts: 3155
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 5:56 am

United asks for another 2 months to get organised

Sun Apr 10, 2005 6:58 am

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 36):
If UA were to liquidate its assets, at least they will get something.

That's just it - most unsecured creditors would receive NOTHING if United liquidated tomorrow - hence their reluctance to rock the boat.
Live life to the fullest.
 
Cleared2Land4
Posts: 168
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 11:42 am

United asks for another 2 months to get organised

Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:36 am

THIS IS A BUNCH OF BULL CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

UNITED IS NOT GOING UNDER
United Airlines... "It's Time to Fly."
 
Lockheed1011
Posts: 154
Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 4:04 pm

United asks for another 2 months to get organised

Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:37 am

Jayspilot,

Don't be ignorant!  Sad

The are hurting, make drastic changes or even do a merge, etc.... but it will not go down.
That is the second biggest carrier in the US and Bush will not let that happen. It will be way.... too US citizens without a job all over the country and across.
Trust me, you will not see that happen any time soon.
 
jayspilot
Posts: 237
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 12:32 pm

United asks for another 2 months to get organised

Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:41 am

trust you.. ok,, just like i trusted united.. so you are telling me you are going to pay my morgage... thats a good one lockeed1011. lets just wait a bit and see, shall we
 
avek00
Posts: 3155
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 5:56 am

United asks for another 2 months to get organised

Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:42 am

Quoting Cleared2land4 (Reply 47):
THIS IS A BUNCH OF BULL CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

UNITED IS NOT GOING UNDER

The former owner of United's Pacific and Heathrow routes said something similar.
Live life to the fullest.