killjoy
Posts: 601
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 1999 6:00 am

Finnair To Get 7th MD-11

Mon Apr 11, 2005 11:19 pm

Finnair will apparently require even more capacity for their Asian operations, and are negotiating the acquisition of a seventh McDonnell Douglas MD-11.

In other news, the MD-80 will be decommissioned earlier than expected, to be replaced by a combination of existing A320 and new E170 aircraft.

[Edited 2005-04-11 16:20:55]
 
Orion737
Posts: 3044
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2005 10:14 pm

RE: Finnair To Get 7th MD-11

Mon Apr 11, 2005 11:23 pm

Great news about the addition of another MD11. Finnair certainly love their trijets and look like staying with the MD 11 for the forseable future!
 
tavve
Posts: 169
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 4:24 pm

RE: Finnair To Get 7th MD-11

Mon Apr 11, 2005 11:30 pm

Quoting Killjoy (Thread starter):
In other news, the MD-80 will be decommissioned earlier than expected, to be replaced by a combination of existing A320 and new E170 aircraft.

I wish SK was doing the same thing.
GOT, that's where I live
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: Finnair To Get 7th MD-11

Mon Apr 11, 2005 11:31 pm

Also from the linked press release:
In winter 2005-06 the new aircraft will replace other aircraft withdrawn for maintenance connected with the refurbishment of the long-haul fleet's business class cabins. The additional capacity will be available for use from spring 2006.

Good to see that not only is Finnair continuing to acquire MD-11's, but refurbishing the existing fleet. Seems like they plan on keeping them for a while.
International Homo of Mystery
 
DIJKKIJK
Posts: 1785
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 11:03 pm

RE: Finnair To Get 7th MD-11

Mon Apr 11, 2005 11:34 pm

Finnair is currently flying twice a day to China as well as once a day
to Bangkok and Japan. This autumn a new destination will open, to
Guangzhou in China.



Why is there so much demand for Finland -China flights? Is there a large Chinese diaspora in Finland?
Never argue with idiots. They will bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
 
cornish
Posts: 7651
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:05 pm

RE: Finnair To Get 7th MD-11

Mon Apr 11, 2005 11:38 pm

Quoting DIJKKIJK (Reply 4):
Why is there so much demand for Finland -China flights? Is there a large Chinese diaspora in Finland?

No, but Finnair have made themselves a nice little niche for Europe-Asia flights (particularly from Scandinavia and northern Europe). Many of the passengers on these flights will have connected at HEL rather than just originated there.
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
Doona
Posts: 3382
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 9:43 am

RE: Finnair To Get 7th MD-11

Mon Apr 11, 2005 11:50 pm

Cornish is right. Flying from HEL to Asia cuts about 2 or 3 hrs compared to LHR or CDG. So people prefer shorter flights... Nevermind that flying from LHR to HEL takes 3 hrs...

Cheers
Mats
Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
 
killjoy
Posts: 601
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 1999 6:00 am

RE: Finnair To Get 7th MD-11

Mon Apr 11, 2005 11:53 pm

Quoting Doona (Reply 6):
Cornish is right. Flying from HEL to Asia cuts about 2 or 3 hrs compared to LHR or CDG. So people prefer shorter flights... Nevermind that flying from LHR to HEL takes 3 hrs...

Connecting at HEL is also much less painful  Wink .
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24597
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Finnair To Get 7th MD-11

Tue Apr 12, 2005 12:52 am

Great news, they need this. Finnair was having problems finding a way to operate to Miami next winter with only six aircraft and the increased flying to Asia, such as Guangzhou. The new MD11 will help solve this problem.
a.
 
DeltaWings
Posts: 1234
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2004 4:06 am

RE: Finnair To Get 7th MD-11

Tue Apr 12, 2005 12:56 am

Where will they get the MD-11 from? from McDonnell Douglas?  Smile


~DeltaWings
Homer: Marge, it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen.
 
persotvik
Posts: 265
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 1999 12:38 am

RE: Finnair To Get 7th MD-11

Tue Apr 12, 2005 1:30 am

Hi Smile

Quoting DeltaWings (Reply 9):
Where will they get the MD-11 from? from McDonnell Douglas?

I know DL has a couple stored as well as one with engineproblems. McDonnel Douglas/Boeing also have some examples, returned from Swiss. I don't know their status.
Just love flying
 
OHLBU
Posts: 224
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 7:35 am

RE: Finnair To Get 7th MD-11

Tue Apr 12, 2005 2:40 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 8):
Finnair was having problems finding a way to operate to Miami next winter

Currently Finnair is not selling MIA for next winter, I believe this winter´s flights were unprofitable for the airline. Loads were quite low and as there is no business-class it´s hard to make a profit with half-full economy cabin.

Quoting DeltaWings (Reply 9):
Where will they get the MD-11 from? from McDonnell Douglas?

This is the million dollar question. A great portion of MD11 airframes have been converted to freighters. To find a CF6-powered example with a common cabin layout to either of Finnair´s must be quite hard. I wonder if KLM would be interested in selling/leasing one? What other carriers still operate passenger MD11s with CF6s?
 
Matt27
Posts: 2070
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2003 9:53 pm

RE: Finnair To Get 7th MD-11

Tue Apr 12, 2005 2:56 am

Good news for Finnair. Their MD-11s and the KLM MD-11s are among the best looking a/c in the world! So, how many Asian-routes do Finnair have??
Man ska inte dricka rödvin i en vit hall.
 
KL808
Posts: 1534
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 3:49 am

RE: Finnair To Get 7th MD-11

Tue Apr 12, 2005 2:58 am

Thai has some GE powered MD-11's, that they might want to get rid of in the near future to reduce types in the fleet. KL could possible lease out one of the MD-11's to Finnair. Varig has some too in the fleet, however IM not sure if they would get rid of em.

Drew
AMS-LAX-MNL
 
KL808
Posts: 1534
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 3:49 am

RE: Finnair To Get 7th MD-11

Tue Apr 12, 2005 3:01 am

Quoting Matt27 (Reply 12):
how many Asian-routes do Finnair have??

well they fly from Helsinki to:

Tokyo
Peking
Shanghai
Hongkong
Guangzhou (starts 9/4/2005)
Bangkok
Singapore

Drew
AMS-LAX-MNL
 
persotvik
Posts: 265
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 1999 12:38 am

RE: Finnair To Get 7th MD-11

Tue Apr 12, 2005 3:03 am

TG have decided to keep their 4 MD11's for regional operations as far as I know from another sorce here.
Just love flying
 
OHLBU
Posts: 224
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 7:35 am

RE: Finnair To Get 7th MD-11

Tue Apr 12, 2005 3:11 am

Quoting KL808 (Reply 14):
well they fly from Helsinki to:

Tokyo
Peking
Shanghai
Hongkong
Guangzhou (starts 9/4/2005)
Bangkok
Singapore

Plus Osaka 5x week. Hong Kong is a direct service 3x week during summer and BKK/SIN is daily.
 
OHLBU
Posts: 224
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 7:35 am

RE: Finnair To Get 7th MD-11

Tue Apr 12, 2005 3:15 am

Quoting KL808 (Reply 13):
Varig has some too in the fleet, however IM not sure if they would get rid of em.

I believe Varig has just added some ex-Swiss MD11s to their fleet so that would suggest they also plan to keep their current examples. How about DL/AA and their MD11s? Are they in storage and which engines did they have?
 
godbless
Posts: 2680
Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2000 5:26 am

RE: Finnair To Get 7th MD-11

Tue Apr 12, 2005 3:25 am

Quoting Tavve (Reply 2):
Quoting Killjoy (Thread starter):
In other news, the MD-80 will be decommissioned earlier than expected, to be replaced by a combination of existing A320 and new E170 aircraft.

I wish SK was doing the same thing.

I just hope that SK keeps to the slow paste of removing the MD80's. Once all the MD-80's are gone it will be quite boring with only 737's and A320's left plus all those RJ's...

I am always amazed how AY manages to serve a niche market and then use such a large a/c type. A 767 or A330 seems to make more sense, but it's good if they have success with their MD-11 fleet.

Max
 
kaitak
Posts: 8969
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 5:49 am

RE: Finnair To Get 7th MD-11

Tue Apr 12, 2005 3:57 am

Good for them; is Guangzhou direct or via BKK? (Now that HKG is nonstop, I guess they could substitute CAN for this?)
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24597
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Finnair To Get 7th MD-11

Tue Apr 12, 2005 3:58 am

Quoting OHLBU (Reply 11):
Currently Finnair is not selling MIA for next winter, I believe this winter´s flights were unprofitable for the airline. Loads were quite low and as there is no business-class it´s hard to make a profit with half-full economy cabin.

They haven't put them into the schedule because they have some aircraft scheduling conflicts. They do plan on flying to Miami next winter, again between December and April, 3x a week, though it may be only twice because of aircraft availability.

Loads were definitley not low...they averaged over 90%, with more than half the seats sold by the end of summer 2004, which is why they added a third frequency on Mondays. The service is indeed profitable. Clearly not as profitable as their Asian flights, but it makes money. It definitley does not get priority though, Asian flights do, rightfully so.
a.
 
killjoy
Posts: 601
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 1999 6:00 am

RE: Finnair To Get 7th MD-11

Tue Apr 12, 2005 3:58 am

Quoting GodBless (Reply 18):
A 767 or A330 seems to make more sense

The decision to forego a clearly superior Boeing product was mostly due to political pressure from the California state government, plus the fact that McDonnell Douglas was selling the aircraft at a loss, as witnessed by their subsequent collapse.

Seriously though, the MD-11 can carry a lot more freight.
 
User avatar
airzim
Posts: 1216
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2001 7:40 am

RE: Finnair To Get 7th MD-11

Tue Apr 12, 2005 4:42 am

Plus they fly to New York with the MD-11 either 6 or 7 days a week depending on the time of year.
 
OHLBU
Posts: 224
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 7:35 am

RE: Finnair To Get 7th MD-11

Tue Apr 12, 2005 5:03 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 20):
The service is indeed profitable

I seriously doubt this. Like with the BKK-route a great portion of seats on MIA was sold through tour operators, which is charity-work on scheduled flights. Just look at the prices, it´s the premium class passenger who brings in the money and none of those were on MIA flights. The business-class seats were offered with economy service for full-fare economy pax but there were few takers.

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 19):
is Guangzhou direct or via BKK?

CAN will be direct. From September HKG will again be an extension of the BKK service 3x week.

Quoting GodBless (Reply 18):
I am always amazed how AY manages to serve a niche market and then use such a large a/c type. A 767 or A330 seems to make more sense, but it's good if they have success with their MD-11 fleet.

It´s the same thing that SQ and EK among others are doing, albeit on a much smaller scale. Great circle route makes HEL an ideal transfer point between Japan/China and the rest of Europe. And the small size of Helsinki-Vantaa airport makes a 40min transfer a reality. Finnair has adapted its route network to suite the size of the MD11, not the other way around. On the passenger side HEL-BKK-HEL would be unprofitable but cargo revenue makes the route feasible.
 
Orion737
Posts: 3044
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2005 10:14 pm

RE: Finnair To Get 7th MD-11

Tue Apr 12, 2005 5:07 am

I thought Finnair had one MD11 in a high density configuration for charter flights? If this is no longer the case what aircraft do they use for those winter flights to Las Palmas because they need a big plane for that.

Finns love Gran Canaria in winter!
 
wjcandee
Posts: 5188
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

RE: Finnair To Get 7th MD-11

Tue Apr 12, 2005 5:53 am

Maybe they can wet-lease one from World.
 
TPASXM787
Posts: 1667
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 6:31 am

RE: Finnair To Get 7th MD-11

Tue Apr 12, 2005 5:59 am

I know it makes sense for their fleet, just not a great aircraft in general.  thumbsdown 
This is the Last Stop.
 
UpperDeck79
Posts: 1062
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 11:14 pm

RE: Finnair To Get 7th MD-11

Tue Apr 12, 2005 6:30 am

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 24):
I thought Finnair had one MD11 in a high density configuration for charter flights? If this is no longer the case what aircraft do they use for those winter flights to Las Palmas because they need a big plane for that.

They reconfigured that bird a long ago to fly the Asian routes. Charter flights to Canaries and elsewhere are flown with charter-configured 757's (and the occasional A321 and MD80).
AY and ANA rock!
 
Orion737
Posts: 3044
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2005 10:14 pm

RE: Finnair To Get 7th MD-11

Tue Apr 12, 2005 6:32 am

Big drop in capacity then. The charter configured MD11 was very useful for winter flights to Las Palmas, surely Finns fave holiday place!
 
UpperDeck79
Posts: 1062
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 11:14 pm

RE: Finnair To Get 7th MD-11

Tue Apr 12, 2005 6:38 am

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 28):
Big drop in capacity then. The charter configured MD11 was very useful for winter flights to Las Palmas, surely Finns fave holiday place!

True. They still sometimes use normally configured MD11 on leisure flights to Malaga and scheduled flights to Finnish Lapland during high ski season. But only sometimes.
AY and ANA rock!
 
Matt27
Posts: 2070
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2003 9:53 pm

RE: Finnair To Get 7th MD-11

Tue Apr 12, 2005 6:44 am

KL808 and OHLBU, thanks for the info.  bigthumbsup 
Man ska inte dricka rödvin i en vit hall.
 
NWA1978
Posts: 66
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 9:15 am

RE: Finnair To Get 7th MD-11

Tue Apr 12, 2005 7:21 am

Maybe Boeing will fire the md11 line back up to take the place of the 717. Then again, maybe not! I look back to when they closed the line down and although it seems as if they didnt sell very well, neither did any of the old md's once boeing got ahold of them. It's sad because it seems the carriers that have the md11's want more of them. If you build it, they will come....
 
persotvik
Posts: 265
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 1999 12:38 am

RE: Finnair To Get 7th MD-11

Tue Apr 12, 2005 7:50 am

At www.flytorget.se you can read about this in swedish. AY are in negotiations with RG regarding one more MD11 Smile
Just love flying
 
PanAmDC10
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2005 3:03 am

RE: Finnair To Get 7th MD-11

Tue Apr 12, 2005 8:40 am

Good for them. I hope they can rescue some of them from desert storage.
 
Lockheed1011
Posts: 154
Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 4:04 pm

RE: Finnair To Get 7th MD-11

Tue Apr 12, 2005 10:21 am

Great!

Beautiful Birds, love those trijet......................... Smile
 
glennpower
Posts: 92
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 2:41 am

RE: Finnair To Get 7th MD-11

Tue Apr 12, 2005 11:40 am

RG have 5 x swissair MD11s,and believe me they are in a pitiful state just like there new owners,(I have flown two round trips in First,quite a few in bushiness and Economy).

All the cabins really showed there age,very shoddy full stop.

Do not I repeat do not fly these RG birds unless absolutely nesseccary.

Regards
 
9v-svc
Posts: 1703
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2001 5:19 pm

RE: Finnair To Get 7th MD-11

Tue Apr 12, 2005 1:13 pm

I really hope they install PTVs on the MD-11s , this will definately help pass time during long haul flights.
Airliners is the wings of my life.
 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4033
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: Finnair To Get 7th MD-11

Tue Apr 12, 2005 2:27 pm

Finnair's 6th MD11, OH-LGF, which was added last year, was an ex-Citybird/Sabena-operated airframe. As far as I know, it was the last passenger MD11 ever built. Citybird/Sabena used to operate 3 MD11s, OO-CTB (in Citybird colors), OO-CTC and OO-CTS (in Sabena colors). I believe OO-CTS is now OH-LGF. Anyone knows what's come of the other two airframes? Could AY possibly be looking at these aircraft?
 
bennett123
Posts: 7461
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

RE: Finnair To Get 7th MD-11

Tue Apr 12, 2005 3:04 pm

My records show

OO-CTB OH-LGF Finnair
OO-CTC OH-LGE Finnair
OO-CTS N279WA World Airways
 
N1120A
Posts: 26468
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Finnair To Get 7th MD-11

Tue Apr 12, 2005 3:11 pm

Quoting GodBless (Reply 18):
I am always amazed how AY manages to serve a niche market and then use such a large a/c type. A 767 or A330 seems to make more sense, but it's good if they have success with their MD-11 fleet.

Well, first, the MD-11 is similar in size to the A333/A343/772. Also, it flies much farther than any 767 or A330 can, which makes it much more attractive for longer hauls. Beyond that, its lift/weight ratio along with low lease rates make it a very attractive airframe to keep for airlines that already have them
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Orion737
Posts: 3044
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2005 10:14 pm

RE: Finnair To Get 7th MD-11

Tue Apr 12, 2005 7:00 pm

Someone said the MD11 shows its age! Well the very oldest muest be only about 14 years old with the majority much younger than that. That isnt old at all!
 
eilennaei
Posts: 1003
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 8:41 am

RE: Finnair To Get 7th MD-11

Tue Apr 12, 2005 9:20 pm

The new MD-11(s) probably would have to be fitted with new style cabin insulation blankets like the rest of the AY MD-11 fleet. Will keep people busy, along with the cabin interior & IFEN refurbishing and the target towards the year's end..
 
UpperDeck79
Posts: 1062
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 11:14 pm

RE: Finnair To Get 7th MD-11

Tue Apr 12, 2005 9:24 pm

I'd love to see them fly to BOM (Mumbay/Bombay) or MAA (Chennai/Madras) as they were hinting about India. ICN (Seoul) would be awesome, too, though.
AY and ANA rock!
 
duke
Posts: 1167
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 1999 9:52 pm

RE: Finnair To Get 7th MD-11

Tue Apr 12, 2005 10:29 pm

Aaah, music to my ears. That's one less MD-11  Silly that will be a freighter for the time being. Way to go, Finnair. At least SOMEBODY likes this beautiful bird.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24597
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Finnair To Get 7th MD-11

Sun Apr 17, 2005 1:59 am

Finnair will indeed fly to Miami next winter. Unfortunately, due to lack of MD11s (they will still only have 6 MD11s in service next winter, since they will be rotating one of them out of service to fit in new seats), flights are currently planned be operated by their leisure division with a 757 via Halifax. Finnair would like to try to rotate an MD11 into Miami, and will decide by June. For now, passengers can book the 757 service.

[Edited 2005-04-16 19:05:02]
a.
 
UpperDeck79
Posts: 1062
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 11:14 pm

RE: Finnair To Get 7th MD-11

Sun Apr 17, 2005 8:19 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 44):
For now, passengers can book the 757 service.

I couldn't find the flight from AY website... But it may well be bookable from a tour operator already, true.
AY and ANA rock!
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24597
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Finnair To Get 7th MD-11

Sun Apr 17, 2005 9:54 am

Quoting UpperDeck79 (Reply 45):
I couldn't find the flight from AY website... But it may well be bookable from a tour operator already, true.

It is there and bookable on finnair.com and public reservation systems:

AY 2981 HEL 0555-1140 MIA 752 via YHZ
AY 2982 MIA 1240-0740 HEL 752 via YHZ
a.