USairways16BWI
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US Loads To Western Cities?

Wed Apr 13, 2005 1:06 am

I just wanted to know what the loads are like on US from CLT/PIT/PHL to western cities such as LAX, PHX, SEA, LAS etc..
I heard they aren't doing to well on these routes due to competition from other airlines. Is this true?
 
quickmover
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RE: US Loads To Western Cities?

Wed Apr 13, 2005 1:09 am

I believe those are code share routes with UAL. How that effects the loads, I don't know, but online there are several more flight options at expedia.
 
jdwfloyd
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RE: US Loads To Western Cities?

Wed Apr 13, 2005 1:16 am

The last time I checked SABRE when I was looking to go out west last month it seemed you could'nt buy a seat on these routes. Every flt was within 5 seats of being full or they were over sold all together.
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: US Loads To Western Cities?

Wed Apr 13, 2005 1:42 am

I don't know about to the other cities, but I happen to fly to Las Vegas a couple of times a year, usually on US Airways, and they are frequently packed-to-overbooked. Quickmover, those are US Airways flights, US Airways does serve several western airports (SAN, LAX, LAS, SFO, SEA, PHX, and DEN are all US-served airports, and all in the Mountain or Pacific Time Zones) with their own metal.
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7e72004
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RE: US Loads To Western Cities?

Wed Apr 13, 2005 2:14 am

I wonder how US would be doing if they kept the PSA western routes in place  Sad
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ouboy79
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RE: US Loads To Western Cities?

Wed Apr 13, 2005 4:51 am

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 1):
I believe those are code share routes with UAL. How that effects the loads, I don't know, but online there are several more flight options at expedia.

They are operated by US metal, but may have a UA code on them as well.

Quoting 7E72004 (Reply 4):
I wonder how US would be doing if they kept the PSA western routes in place

If they kept PSA in place, Southwest would not be anywhere as big as they are out west. Though it appears they are gonna give it a try again with HP...this should be an interesting integration. LOL
 
SonOfACaptain
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RE: US Loads To Western Cities?

Wed Apr 13, 2005 6:20 am

Quoting UsAirways16bwi (Thread starter):

I heard they aren't doing to well on these routes due to competition from other airlines. Is this true?

Where did you hear this? The routes have always been one of US more full routes. Everytime I have looked up these flights, most of them have been full.

-SOAC
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avek00
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RE: US Loads To Western Cities?

Wed Apr 13, 2005 6:26 am

Quoting Ouboy79 (Reply 5):
Though it appears they are gonna give it a try again with HP...this should be an interesting integration.

It's simply a rumor generated by an analyst's research note that has not been substantiated by anyone.
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DCAYOW
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RE: US Loads To Western Cities?

Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:33 am

Calendar year 2004 loads (DOT T100 databank):

CLT-SEA: 85.1%
PIT-SEA: 85.17%
PHL-SEA: 83.5%
CLT-SFO: 80.13%
PIT-SFO: 84.2%
PHL-SFO: 79.05%
CLT-LAX: 80.23%
PIT-LAX: 87.11%
PHL-LAX: 86.78%
CLT-SAN: 84.58%
PIT-SAN: 86.58%
PHL-SAN: 85.06%
CLT-LAS: 86.55%
PIT-LAS: 89.65%
PHL-LAS: 85.41%
CLT-PHX: 83.45%
PIT-PHX: 84.72%
PHL-PHX: 82.45%
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SHUPirate1
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RE: US Loads To Western Cities?

Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:40 am

Wow...it didn't dawn on any of those guys that Pittsburgh had the highest loadfactor to all six of those cities, did it?
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supa7E7
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RE: US Loads To Western Cities?

Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:47 am

Load factor means little in terms of profitability.

In a route with near-infinite demand, you can fill every plane. But fares are so low that even Southwest probably loses money on cross-country flights which tie up an aircraft and crew for so many hours.
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SonOfACaptain
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RE: US Loads To Western Cities?

Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:48 am

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 9):
Wow...it didn't dawn on any of those guys that Pittsburgh had the highest loadfactor to all six of those cities, did it?

Yes, but you also have to take account that most of the PIT flights are on A319's whereas, most of the PHL and CLT flights are on A320's and A321's.

-SOAC
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SHUPirate1
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RE: US Loads To Western Cities?

Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:51 am

Supa-I realize that. However, the fares on those routes from Philadelphia can't be any worse than on those routes from Pittsburgh, particularly when Pittsburgh had some of the highest fare premiums in the country.
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PITA333
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RE: US Loads To Western Cities?

Wed Apr 13, 2005 8:42 am

SOAC: True, some are on A319's (and on A320's), but when they were with 321's, the flights were still full, as PIT saw more connecting traffic.
 
ouboy79
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RE: US Loads To Western Cities?

Wed Apr 13, 2005 8:46 am

PIT also had costs nearly 3 times higher than CLT to operate from.

Quoting Avek00 (Reply 7):
It's simply a rumor generated by an analyst's research note that has not been substantiated by anyone.

I understand completely where the rumor is coming from. This pattern is quite similar to the time before the UA/US announcement. We'll see what happens...I would be somewhat suprised if M&A activity started this year without US being a player in one aspect or another. HP/US make the only logical hook up that would benefit either system versus a US/UA hook up which would require some more downsizing - particularly the DCA operation.
 
avek00
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RE: US Loads To Western Cities?

Wed Apr 13, 2005 9:01 am

Quoting Ouboy79 (Reply 14):
HP/US make the only logical hook up that would benefit either system

That's just it - HP/US doesn't benefit EITHER system.
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N670UW
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RE: US Loads To Western Cities?

Wed Apr 13, 2005 10:11 am

Quoting SonOfACaptain (Reply 11):
Yes, but you also have to take account that most of the PIT flights are on A319's whereas, most of the PHL and CLT flights are on A320's and A321's.

Yes, but that list is from 2004. PIT was still a hub through much of 2004 (until November) and had 320's and 321's to most of those cities.



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aloha73g
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RE: US Loads To Western Cities?

Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:02 pm

Quoting Supa7E7 (Reply 10):
Load factor means little in terms of profitability.

In a route with near-infinite demand, you can fill every plane. But fares are so low that even Southwest probably loses money on cross-country flights which tie up an aircraft and crew for so many hours.

BUT you must remember that when the plane is in the air, you dont have people checking in passengers, loading/unloading bags, refueling, provisioning, etc. In the end it probably a wash.

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deltairlines
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RE: US Loads To Western Cities?

Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:07 pm

From what I've seen on FlyerTalk, these routes are extremely full in both cabins. Chairman's often complain about barely clearing the upgrade lists, even on the A321, and said that coach is pretty full on these flights as well.

Jeff
 
ouboy79
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RE: US Loads To Western Cities?

Wed Apr 13, 2005 2:32 pm

Quoting Avek00 (Reply 15):
That's just it - HP/US doesn't benefit EITHER system.

How can you say adding their strong east coast and west coast networks wouldn't benefit either? Sure there is a lack of something in the middle to help with various connections - but that can be solved by adding flights to either CLT or PHX from larger markets.

That would be like saying NW and AS hooking up would be bad, or CO and F9...certain combinations of airlines each help to patch wholes in various networks. Of course if you put UA, AA, or DL with anyone...it really doesn't work since they have some of the more spread out networks that already cover more of the lower 48.