airish
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UK And India To Further Increase Flights

Thu Apr 14, 2005 1:17 am

This article says the UK and India going to further increase flights from 40 to 84

http://www.reuters.com/locales/c_new...ws&localeKey=en_IN&storyID=8168700
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himmat01
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RE: UK And India To Further Increase Flights

Thu Apr 14, 2005 1:42 am

Why can't India and UK go for an open sky agreement like the one between India and the US?
An airplane might disappoint any pilot but it'll never surprise a good one.
 
B747-437B
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RE: UK And India To Further Increase Flights

Thu Apr 14, 2005 1:58 am

Quoting Himmat01 (Reply 1):
Why can't India and UK go for an open sky agreement like the one between India and the US?

Unfortunately, the UK and pretty much any other country will struggle to sign open skies agreements because of the capacity constraints seen at the primary UK airports. The dominance of the UK carriers at those airports create an imbalance that is incompatible with open skies.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
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yyz717
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RE: UK And India To Further Increase Flights

Thu Apr 14, 2005 7:46 am

Quoting B747-437B (Reply 2):
Why can't India and UK go for an open sky agreement like the one between India and the US?

The UK (indeed, any country) should avoid an open skies treaty with any country whose primary carriers remain government-owned. Air-India (and Indian Airlines) do not have the same bottom-line focus as do privately-owned carriers (BA, VS, BMI, Jet Airways) and hence are more apt to add capacity unnecessarily and unprofitably, potentially hurting all players. The UK should only consider open skies with India once Air-India and Indian Airlines are privatized.

As for the recent open skies agreement with the US, the longer distances between India and the US (requiring 744/345/772LR ideally) reduces the likelihood of a free-for-all with too many carriers adding too much capacity at once in the event of open skies, as compared to a possible UK-India open skies.

Of course as Sean said, primary UK airports do face capacity constraints although a free-for-all with too many additional new flights cannot be ruled out. Government-owned carriers such as Air-India and Indian Airlines cannot be counted on to act as rationally in a free market as can profit-motivated carriers.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
B747-437B
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RE: UK And India To Further Increase Flights

Thu Apr 14, 2005 8:33 am

Just got an overview of some of the details from a source. I can't believe that the Ministry thinks they can actually get away with some of this stuff. It's sad when even some members of the UK delegation now refer to Praful Patel and Ajay Prasad as the "Ministry of Jet Airways".

Five years from now we will look back at 13 April 2005 and recognize it as the day Air India's death was sealed.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
jaysit
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RE: UK And India To Further Increase Flights

Thu Apr 14, 2005 8:55 am

Five years from now we will look back at 13 April 2005 and recognize it as the day Air India's death was sealed.

Good.

The GOI has no business running the service economy. They've done a horrible job of it, be it airlines, or hotels. AI has been a political football for all sorts of horrendous politicians for years now. They can go kick something else for a change - like themselves.

As someone whose first flight on a 747 was on one of AI's amazing Palaces in the Sky and who views the airline fondly to the extent that I still patronize it with my travel dollars, it has been sad to see AI wither away, although for the last year it appeared that it was on its way to a partial recovery.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
behramjee
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RE: UK And India To Further Increase Flights

Thu Apr 14, 2005 8:56 am

Roy aka Indianguy must be jumping with joy right now  Wink
 
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yyz717
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RE: UK And India To Further Increase Flights

Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:22 am

Quoting B747-437B (Reply 4):
Five years from now we will look back at 13 April 2005 and recognize it as the day Air India's death was sealed.

Would that be such as a bad thing? Surely the dynamic, profit-oriented, and efficient management of Jet Airways, Air Sahara et al can manage the scarce Indian international route authorities more profitably than Air-India and Indian Airlines. Indians can only benefit from a reduced, marginalized or even liquidated Air-India in the long haul, if not at least a privatized Air-India.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
aseem
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RE: UK And India To Further Increase Flights

Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:48 am

the whole scenario looks contradictory. If AI is on its deathbed, then why buy planes for it at all. Let this be an example of "euthanasia" of airlines.
rgds
Aseem
ala re ala, VT-ALA ala
 
stealthpilot
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RE: UK And India To Further Increase Flights

Thu Apr 14, 2005 11:43 am

Quoting Aseem, reply 8 "If AI is on its deathbed, then why buy planes for it at all."

If things remain the same at AI they will slowly get hammered. On one hand I think that Air India’s decision to buy those planes was long overdue, on the other hand im angry that they are using my tax money (or will use it  Smile)
If AI completely revamps itself, and somehow gets independent management / privatizes / whatever only then will it do well. If it continues to be run the way it is I really really hope they fold up sooner rather than later, because it definitely will happen.
On its present course AIs future is bleak, and I hope the government stops pumping money into it and lets go!

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shawnnyc
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RE: UK And India To Further Increase Flights

Thu Apr 14, 2005 11:45 am

The Hindu is saying that Indian carriers will get unlimited flights from India to the UK outside of BOM and DEL to LHR. Is this true? If so I think it is an interesting tradeoff for offering such a large increase in UK - India flights. Hopefully Indian carriers will open flights from secondary Indian cities to London and from BOM/DEL to smaller UK cities. With the US - India open skies, Indian carriers could now really be players US - UK - India routes (agreed Indian aviation has never really risen to the occasion, but this time it looks like it could happen).

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/...04/14/stories/2005041401680300.htm
 
jaysit
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RE: UK And India To Further Increase Flights

Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:34 pm

Indians can only benefit from a reduced, marginalized or even liquidated Air-India in the long haul, if not at least a privatized Air-India.

Undoubtedly.
And the scarce tax rupees of the 2% of beleagured Indians who pay income taxes can go towards other much needed projects instead of running airlines and the like.
The private carriers can raise funds in the marketplace, compete effectively, and be run as efficient profit oriented carriers, something that AI and IC had no incentive to do.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
mrniji
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RE: UK And India To Further Increase Flights

Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:47 pm

Quoting Aseem (Reply 8):
the whole scenario looks contradictory. If AI is on its deathbed, then why buy planes for it at all. L

Because the IAS people et al in the Ministry have no idea about aviation management etc

Sad, sad, sad
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
COKLHR
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RE: UK And India To Further Increase Flights

Fri Apr 15, 2005 4:29 am

I personally can't see Air India dying in 5 years. A hell of a lot of people still travel on it even today. The only way forward for Air India is privatisation and that process will finally start next year (hopefully). If that doesn't happen then Air India is doomed.
 
sshank
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RE: UK And India To Further Increase Flights

Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:46 am

Just got an overview of some of the details from a source. I can't believe that the Ministry thinks they can actually get away with some of this stuff. It's sad when even some members of the UK delegation now refer to Praful Patel and Ajay Prasad as the "Ministry of Jet Airways".

Five years from now we will look back at 13 April 2005 and recognize it as the day Air India's death was sealed.


Sean - what in particular do you find so objectionable here? Granted a lot of things here look tailor made for Jet - and AI is set to see some competition from an Indian carrier for the first time. But is that such a bad thing? Bad for AI maybe - but that's not necessarily bad for India (and the passengers).
 
B747-437B
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RE: UK And India To Further Increase Flights

Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:50 pm

Quoting Sshank (Reply 14):

Sean - what in particular do you find so objectionable here?

My apologies to the forum, Praful Patel and Ajay Prasad. The initial overview I received via a text message from a source was misleading and I jumped to conclusions that I should not have. Now that I have a copy of the entire document in front of me, I do not believe that there is anythign objectionable in the MoU
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
COKLHR
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RE: UK And India To Further Increase Flights

Fri Apr 15, 2005 9:26 pm

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/businessline/blnus/14151708.htm

I think Air India has to be privatized to compete with the more nimble private airlines in India today and other international airlines. Maybe the break of Air India's monopoly over international routes will help the airline to actually be privatized considering the political resistance to this in the past.
 
TKMCE
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RE: UK And India To Further Increase Flights

Fri Apr 15, 2005 11:31 pm

Here is the official MOU taken from DGCA India


http://www.dgca.nic.in/bilateral/MoU_UK_0405.pdf
 
WestWing
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RE: UK And India To Further Increase Flights

Sat Apr 16, 2005 2:22 am

Quoting B747-437B (Reply 15):
I do not believe that there is anythign objectionable in the MoU

Other than the inablity to differentiate between minimum and maximum ? Big grin (cf. part 7 (i) ).
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