havaloc
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787 To Ride Better In Turbulence

Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:52 pm

I haven't seen this before, but the 787 has some sort of motion dampening system to ride better in turbulent conditions. Very neat and passenger focused.

Here's the relevant excerpt, but there's much more to read at the link below.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/219886_air13.html

With all its cutting-edge technology and an airframe made almost entirely of composites, one feature on The Boeing Co.'s 787 Dreamliner will be especially appealing to passengers who don't much care for bumpy airplane rides.

Because of advances in computer processing since Boeing developed the 777 in the early 1990s, the 787 will be much more steady in flight.

"It will ride better in turbulence," said Walt Gillette, vice president of engineering and manufacturing for the 787 program.

Studies have found that during moderate to severe turbulence, about 5 percent of passengers can become air sick because of the up and down and side to side motion of the plane. Boeing believes the ride-enhancement qualities that will be used on the 787 will reduce that to about 2 percent.

Computers will make extremely rapid changes in the 787's flight controls to better adapt to turbulence and dampen out motions.

"If we had had this kind of processing technology 15 years ago, we would have done it on the 777," Gillette said.
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AA737-823
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RE: 787 To Ride Better In Turbulence

Thu Apr 14, 2005 2:56 pm

Is this similar to the LAF on the Airbusses? Load Alleviation Function, that is...
The A320 uses the ELAC and SEC computers so that when it senses updrafts, it pops the spoilers and BOTH ailerons up (simultaneously) to cancel the up-bump...

I wonder how this system will differ.
 
transswede
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RE: 787 To Ride Better In Turbulence

Thu Apr 14, 2005 3:39 pm

Did they forget to mention that the 787 will cure cancer as well?  Wink
 
Areopagus
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RE: 787 To Ride Better In Turbulence

Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:55 pm

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 1):
Is this similar to the LAF on the Airbusses?

... or the L-1011-500's gust alleviation system?
 
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Aloha717200
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RE: 787 To Ride Better In Turbulence

Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:57 pm

That's not the only cool thing about the article, though!!


Remember when Mike Bair said that the 787 was getting some exterior changes to the nose and tail, and we all went up in arms about the 787 losing its distinct features?


This article clarifies that and says that the final outer design of the plane has been forzen. Here's the relevant part:

------

"Boeing wanted its new jet to be instantly recognized in the same way that the 747 is because of that hump just behind the cockpit. And the 787 did look different, and ultrasleek, as if it were a shark or porpoise gliding through the sky.

But Boeing also warned that the shape could change as the final design was refined by engineers.

And it has.

Mike Bair, vice president and general manager of the 787 program, said the outside design lines of the plane have been frozen. The nose and wings look pretty much as the previous images showed, he said. But the 787 has a more conventional looking tail.

"It's a really good-looking airplane," Bair said.

Boeing is expected to soon release the first computer images of what the 787 will really look like."


------



There you go. We still have the shark nose though maybe the windows have changed a bit. It's the tail that has been modified more.


And honestly, I'm sure it won't look like a 777 tail. The 787 tail will still be unique, just not as unique as it was. But changing the design probably has increased the stability and control of the plane. I'd rather have a plane that the pilots have an easier time flying, or is more efficient; than a plane that has a unique, but not as efficient, tail.
 
LPLAspotter
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RE: 787 To Ride Better In Turbulence

Thu Apr 14, 2005 5:07 pm

Quoting Havaloc (Thread starter):
Studies have found that during moderate to severe turbulence, about 5 percent of passengers can become air sick because of the up and down and side to side motion of the plane. Boeing believes the ride-enhancement qualities that will be used on the 787 will reduce that to about 2 percent.

Something sounds funny about this. Moderate and severe turbulence is pretty rare, and 5% is pretty small. Sounds like alot of money being spent to develop something that will not make much difference in the long run.

In any case - Way to go Boeing, I can't wait to see this thing fly!!!!

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keesje
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RE: 787 To Ride Better In Turbulence

Thu Apr 14, 2005 6:09 pm

Quoting Havaloc (Thread starter):
Computers will make extremely rapid changes in the 787's flight controls to better adapt to turbulence and dampen out motions.

From a passenger standpoint this will certainly improve comfort & enhance the flight experience, contrary to some exotic tail/nose.. everybody who frequenty experiences bumpy landings will appreciate:

http://www6.flightlevel350.com/photos/78/1091820971-7.wmv

Airbus developed & tested this technolgy also a few years back.
Don't know how far it is implemented on the 380.
http://www.airliners.net/discussions...eral_aviation/read.main/1475596/6/

What happens: sensors measure gust a short distance in front of the aircraft & adjusts the wing lift/drag at the moment it hits the aircraft, neutralizing it.

The technology reduces the aerodynamic loads on the wing/ airframe and thus enhances lifetime/safety and reduces maintenance costs..
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
havaloc
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RE: 787 To Ride Better In Turbulence

Fri Apr 15, 2005 12:41 am

Flightlevel350 doesn't allow hotlinking, so try this link instead:

Third from the bottom

http://flightlevel350.com/search.php?start=30&where=0&keyword=A321

Quoting Keesje (Reply 6):
From a passenger standpoint this will certainly improve comfort & enhance the flight experience, contrary to some exotic tail/nose.. everybody who frequenty experiences bumpy landings will appreciate:

http://www6.flightlevel350.com/photo...7.wmv
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satx
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RE: 787 To Ride Better In Turbulence

Fri Apr 15, 2005 1:18 am

Maybe I'm the rare exception, but I actually enjoy cruise-level turbulence, unless I'm trying to eat/drink/stand/walk/aim when it happens. I even enjoy thunderstorms and lighting if I can get it. Feeling the wild ride is a nice way to break the monotony.

Landing in a strong storm is no fun though, and I've gotten a few scares in my time. In fact, on more than one flight I thought we were going to crash when the plane was banking all over the place on short final and I couldn't see anything out of the window. Those rare last-second takeoff rotations are not much fun either, at least not for me.
Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
 
Lemurs
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RE: 787 To Ride Better In Turbulence

Fri Apr 15, 2005 1:22 am

Quoting SATX (Reply 8):

I'm with you on both those. I like the change of pace, and I like watching the wings do their thing in turb. Only when I'm not trying to read or sleep though. That said, I'd rather not have the people around me freaking out or getting sick...nothing worse than the smell of someone else's vomit when you can't run away from it!

Landings? Clear air please.
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those that don't.
 
havaloc
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RE: 787 To Ride Better In Turbulence

Fri Apr 15, 2005 2:32 am

You probably are. There are various amusement parks that can provide such excitement.  Smile

Quoting SATX (Reply 8):
Maybe I'm the rare exception
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avek00
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RE: 787 To Ride Better In Turbulence

Fri Apr 15, 2005 2:47 am

Quoting SATX (Reply 8):
Maybe I'm the rare exception, but I actually enjoy cruise-level turbulence, unless I'm trying to eat/drink/stand/walk/aim when it happens.

It's no fun when said turbulence causes injuries and fatalities. If a turbulence dampening system can be reasonably implemented, it'd be a Godsend.
Live life to the fullest.
 
Areopagus
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RE: 787 To Ride Better In Turbulence

Fri Apr 15, 2005 4:31 am

Quoting LPLAspotter (Reply 5):
and 5% is pretty small.

5% means two puking passengers for every five rows of 787 seats. I'd just as soon not have that going on around me.
 
co7772wuh
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RE: 787 To Ride Better In Turbulence

Fri Apr 15, 2005 6:20 am

The 787 just keeps getting better .

 bigthumbsup 

[Edited 2005-04-14 23:21:37]
 
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TheRedBaron
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RE: 787 To Ride Better In Turbulence

Fri Apr 15, 2005 7:13 am

Id give up the mumbo jumbo tecnology for turbulence for a HALF DECENT LAVATORY.

Imagine a lav twice the size (no contortions please), with a WINDOW....with good iluminationand no BOMBS away noise when you pull the lever...!!!!

We have gone to the moon, traveled at twice the speed of sound, made a plane that laughs at turbulence...is a good LAV too much too ask?
The best seat in a Plane is the Jumpseat.
 
katanapilot
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RE: 787 To Ride Better In Turbulence

Fri Apr 15, 2005 10:43 am

Turbulence is always fun for me except when it got so bad on a CI flight that the FA's were crying and hugging each other from TPE-HKG in a monsoon last year.
 
satx
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RE: 787 To Ride Better In Turbulence

Fri Apr 15, 2005 11:09 am

Quoting Theredbaron (Reply 14):
We have gone to the moon, traveled at twice the speed of sound, made a plane that laughs at turbulence...is a good LAV too much too ask

Priceless!  Big grin

Quoting Katanapilot (Reply 15):
FA's were crying and hugging each other

Wow, never seen that. Usually the pax freak out looooong before the FA's even flinch. And to think that people actually complain about the battle-hardened grannies we call FA’s stateside. You sure as heck won’t see them shed a tear over a 10,000 ft drop.  Wink

Quoting Avek00 (Reply 11):
It's no fun when said turbulence causes injuries and fatalities.

Yes, this does happen on extremely rare occasions. However, I have yet to see it in person or meet anyone who’s been through such an event. If you stay in your seat and keep your belt fastened when you’re supposed to, you’re usually covered. I suppose the odd poorly stowed article might hit you in the head, but it’s not the kind of thing you really need to worry about.
Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
 
norcal
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RE: 787 To Ride Better In Turbulence

Fri Apr 15, 2005 11:17 am

Quoting Theredbaron (Reply 14):
We have gone to the moon, traveled at twice the speed of sound, made a plane that laughs at turbulence...is a good LAV too much too ask?

Classic
 laughing 

God I hate a/c lavs
 
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TheRedBaron
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RE: 787 To Ride Better In Turbulence

Fri Apr 15, 2005 2:35 pm

Last year on a 737 Ng from American covering the MEX MIA sector on the flare phase of the landing the plane got into a mini down draft..the result a 3 to 4 meter downfall into the tarmac with a super heavy bump and noise, both F/A in the back of the plane screamed like nuts, "thanks a lot capt kangaroo, are you finished carving your initials on the runway?
The best seat in a Plane is the Jumpseat.